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Proximity Detonation - Its time for a serious disscussion ZOS
-
strikeback1247✭✭✭✭✭
✭Make it so it has a base damage of 1k and that every additional target hit adds ~1.5-2k damage.P.A.W.S. - Positively Against Wild Sasquatches - NO TO BIGFOOT!0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
5 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭r.jan_emailb16_ESO wrote: »HeroOfNone wrote: »Nightblade rotation: Proxy det, cloak,count to 2, ambush, soul teether as detonation goes off, swallow soul or cloak away depending on result.
Alternate: after cloaking swap bars to drink a potion to activate your alchemist set then swap back to ambush.
Discuss, how are you supposed to counter it when your not zerging, and why are other build viable when you have such a strong synergy of abilities? It's not affecting just zergs right now, it's hitting everyone hard.
Don't forget fear, so no one blocks
yeah it's ridiculous. I was all in favour of making it stronger against groups, but <4 hardly qualifies.
Blocking will help if you're on top of it, but if your timing it right you'd only have a half second to break free and then block. Good to do if you know they are in the area.
And if your just always blocking, teleport strike in early with mass hysteria to break the block. Better hope you have a stun pot.1 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just learn to play. Quit asking for nerfs you could put points into elemental defender and or spell resist or crit resist. Etc... You choose not to not as ppl that run divines and infused tend to dish it out but not take it. Even last night with my group of five other I saw the red animation in ic and new it was a nb. I held block he did the prox det soul tether combo. All but 2 of us died. I threw a javelin jabbed him to near death and dropped a meteor on him for good measure. Then we rezzed our friends. He came back half a dozen times. He died every time. No match for those with Inpen and hardy. Never will be. He was using the new crafted alchemy set. He was using essence of spell power pots. I know this because he qq me about wearing heavy armor and being a tank. I said I don't wear any heavy armor. He said I was a liar. So I linked each piece he said oh you run Inpen, yeah duh it's pvp. Well there is a lesson in learn to play for him and all of us. If you are going to hunt don't be the prey.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.4 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Nice way to cherry pick but that's not how the skill is being used and you know it.
It's easy to throw numbers out there and make it look good, the government does it all the time to convince people the poo they are feeding them is actually steak.
If prox det was such a horrible single target spell most of Cyrodiil wouldn't be using it timing it with cc and other skills for burst.
Every skill sucks on their own, but become good as a sum of many parts....proxy det should not work as a sum of those parts against single people, it should however work as a sum of those parts against multiple people as an AOE...it's supposed to be a Zerg buster and group skill remember? That's what they said when they unveiled the skill.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just learn to play. Quit asking for nerfs you could put points into elemental defender and or spell resist or crit resist. Etc... You choose not to not as ppl that run divines and infused tend to dish it out but not take it. Even last night with my group of five other I saw the red animation in ic and new it was a nb. I held block he did the prox det soul tether combo. All but 2 of us died. I threw a javelin jabbed him to near death and dropped a meteor on him for good measure. Then we rezzed our friends. He came back half a dozen times. He died every time. No match for those with Inpen and hardy. Never will be. He was using the new crafted alchemy set. He was using essence of spell power pots. I know this because he qq me about wearing heavy armor and being a tank. I said I don't wear any heavy armor. He said I was a liar. So I linked each piece he said oh you run Inpen, yeah duh it's pvp. Well there is a lesson in learn to play for him and all of us. If you are going to hunt don't be the prey.
I am NOT asking for a nerf
I am asking for the skill to function as it was advertised
If a single person jumps into a group of 5 and hits them all with Proxy it should do a lot of damage.
if that same person uses it against a single person, it should be largely ineffective.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
Erondil✭✭✭✭✭
✭Agreed about the damage scaling, it shouldnt be desirable at all to use detonation agaisnt 4 or less ennemies, current situation is stupid. Just make it so it doesnt deal damage if it hits 4 or less people and be done with it already...
Not on the radius nonetheless, impulse right now is very weak because of its range (basically the only people using impulse in PvP is magicka sorcs as they don't have any other spammable AoE) and deto is already delayed damage with a big red circle so it should be big enough.~retired~
EU server, former Zerg Squad and Banana Squad officer
Dennegor NB AD, AvA 50 Grand Overlord 24/05/2016
rekt you NB AD, AvA 32
Erondil Sorc AD, AvA 23
Denne the Banana Slayer NB EP, AvA 14
Darth Dennegor lv50 Stamina NB DC, AvA 19
Youtube Channel3 -
KenaPKK✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Proxy Det needs to be deleted, AoE caps need to be removed, and dynamic ulti regen needs to be reimplemented in a milder form than before.
But ZoS doesn't understand how their game works...
At the very least, Proxy Det needs to deal a quarter of its current damage against single targets. It should be lower than an Impulse but scale waaaay high against multiple people.Kena
Former Class Rep
Former Legend GM
Beta player7 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭I die to wrecking blows and steel tornados far more often than i ever have with prox det. Of course half of what I die to I never even see due to lag. Neither of which have huge red circles and an 8 second warning.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
these are just rough approximations, but it conveys the point.
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Edited by RinaldoGandolphi on March 14, 2016 5:48PMRinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭dont forget viscious death,Its gonna get silly soon
Yup this is what im dreading....
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...4 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...
Im comparing them both as a "single target skill" not how they are used, and its a valid comparison based on "base damage" but you missed the point i was trying to make which is an AOE skill does more damage to a single target then a single target abiltiy when the reverse should be true.
Furthermore, why would i run Impen with 100% uptime on a shield stack? it makes no sense do that..all Proxy does is give me back magicka....but what about the other classes that have no said options?
Also I know i speak for many when i say:
Im sick of being shoehorned into one trait for PVP, a person shouldn't have to wear Impen to prevent being one shot by an AOE ability that was mean to break zergs not kill single targets.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just learn to play. Quit asking for nerfs you could put points into elemental defender and or spell resist or crit resist. Etc... You choose not to not as ppl that run divines and infused tend to dish it out but not take it. Even last night with my group of five other I saw the red animation in ic and new it was a nb. I held block he did the prox det soul tether combo. All but 2 of us died. I threw a javelin jabbed him to near death and dropped a meteor on him for good measure. Then we rezzed our friends. He came back half a dozen times. He died every time. No match for those with Inpen and hardy. Never will be. He was using the new crafted alchemy set. He was using essence of spell power pots. I know this because he qq me about wearing heavy armor and being a tank. I said I don't wear any heavy armor. He said I was a liar. So I linked each piece he said oh you run Inpen, yeah duh it's pvp. Well there is a lesson in learn to play for him and all of us. If you are going to hunt don't be the prey.
So they didn't work in a fear when they saw you block it the first few times? Didn't adjust tactics when it didn't work the next few times? I'm pretty terrible in PVP but even I'd try to adjust tactics after hitting my head into a brick wall.
That said, you sound like your anti crit and magic builds. So, what other magicka builds work better than the proxy det mageblade? You mentioned the only difficulty you seem to have is stamina builds uding wrecking blow or steel tornado right?0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭remove the 8 second timer, in favor of instant cast, increase the radius to 12M, can't be used unless you're within range of 3 people, totally grayed out otherwise. huge damage multiplier for more people within range, MUCH higher cost when used within 4 seconds. maybe have it cost health instead of magicka..."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]1 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have said my part on this, feel free to discuss. We can all agree to disagree.
There have been good points brought up on both sides, and i can understand where folks are coming from. I am going to start using Proxy Det now because doing the math...why wouldn't i?
At the end of the day, i respect everyone who has commented here, we don't always have to agree to respect.
Take care! Hope everyone is enjoying their Monday!
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HeroOfNone wrote: »Just learn to play. Quit asking for nerfs you could put points into elemental defender and or spell resist or crit resist. Etc... You choose not to not as ppl that run divines and infused tend to dish it out but not take it. Even last night with my group of five other I saw the red animation in ic and new it was a nb. I held block he did the prox det soul tether combo. All but 2 of us died. I threw a javelin jabbed him to near death and dropped a meteor on him for good measure. Then we rezzed our friends. He came back half a dozen times. He died every time. No match for those with Inpen and hardy. Never will be. He was using the new crafted alchemy set. He was using essence of spell power pots. I know this because he qq me about wearing heavy armor and being a tank. I said I don't wear any heavy armor. He said I was a liar. So I linked each piece he said oh you run Inpen, yeah duh it's pvp. Well there is a lesson in learn to play for him and all of us. If you are going to hunt don't be the prey.
So they didn't work in a fear when they saw you block it the first few times? Didn't adjust tactics when it didn't work the next few times? I'm pretty terrible in PVP but even I'd try to adjust tactics after hitting my head into a brick wall.
That said, you sound like your anti crit and magic builds. So, what other magicka builds work better than the proxy det mageblade? You mentioned the only difficulty you seem to have is stamina builds uding wrecking blow or steel tornado right?
Even if he feared, As long as you have around 25k~ hp, a nice amount of impen, enough into cp, you won't die.
If your a sorc make sure your shields are up.
If your magicka, pretty much using harness means they can't crit you and the burst won't kill you.
Stamina, you should have more armour anyway, but do the same, high impen, high cp into resistant/ele defender, 25k~ hp, you won't die.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...
Except prox hits everyone around you. As a single target ability the number one counter should always be that you have to pick one target for them to receive the dmg.
Templar radial sweeps ulti is an AOE dmg spell that while has an AOE component is designed to do substantial dmg to enemies ahead of you.
And yes prox det is better than some ultimates in burst dmg.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...
Except prox hits everyone around you. As a single target ability the number one counter should always be that you have to pick one target for them to receive the dmg.
Templar radial sweeps ulti is an AOE dmg spell that while has an AOE component is designed to do substantial dmg to enemies ahead of you.
And yes prox det is better than some ultimates in burst dmg.
Proxy det is just dmg, what ult only does dmg.
Templar sweep is just a bad ult, the only morph thats useful is the one that reduces dmg.
Anyway you was complaining about it being such a good single target skill? It's ok, it's not amazing if people actually have pvp gear and don't run around with divines. Imov pots, block beats proxy. High hp/impen/ele defending beats the burst.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree on all points, OP. Prox Det has become super lame and part of too many DPS rotations. It isn't super threatening to me in open world because I don't ball group, but it is over the top ridiculous in IC when used by magicka Nightblades.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree on all points, OP. Prox Det has become super lame and part of too many DPS rotations. It isn't super threatening to me in open world because I don't ball group, but it is over the top ridiculous in IC when used by magicka Nightblades.
Magicka nb's are ridiculous in general in IC, it's a dlc made for them.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Mysteri0n✭✭✭Slot a bow and go range instead of trying being a in your face wrecking blow spammerLore Council Conclave of Shadows, Trade Council in Knights Arcanum
Officer Celestials of Nirn, Proud Member of Enders Jeesh .Stam Sorc Since Beta 2014
#ARGONIANMASTERRACE0 -
GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...
Im comparing them both as a "single target skill" not how they are used, and its a valid comparison based on "base damage" but you missed the point i was trying to make which is an AOE skill does more damage to a single target then a single target abiltiy when the reverse should be true.
Furthermore, why would i run Impen with 100% uptime on a shield stack? it makes no sense do that..all Proxy does is give me back magicka....but what about the other classes that have no said options?
Also I know i speak for many when i say:
Im sick of being shoehorned into one trait for PVP, a person shouldn't have to wear Impen to prevent being one shot by an AOE ability that was mean to break zergs not kill single targets.
You obviously don't have 100% up time on your shields if you're dying
To get to an earlier post you made people do use AOE's as single target...impulse, nado (for the execute), talons and bombard for the cc, sap essence for major sorcery, and proxy for a burst combo...it'd be one thing if people were only using proxy to deal damage but that's not the case...what you're wanting is going to cause ttk to go up even more than it already is for a magicka user...yes there are the cheese one shot magicka builds out there that get the occasional one shot in but ttk for a stamina build is much lower than a magicka build (see Wrecking Blow)
To compare my two magicka characters, my nb has proxy hitting for 5k with 28k magicka and 3k spell power and my sorc can hit for 9k or more with a much larger magicka pool and same spell power and champion points...pulling off these numbers comes with a trade off...my sorc is spec'd for high burst damage, my nb for survivability, and utility...Member of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 80 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oh wow, people are now comparing CS to Prox
Next can we have flying blade vs volley?
Edited by _Chaos on March 14, 2016 6:07PM'Chaos2 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭leepalmer95 wrote: »HeroOfNone wrote: »Just learn to play. Quit asking for nerfs you could put points into elemental defender and or spell resist or crit resist. Etc... You choose not to not as ppl that run divines and infused tend to dish it out but not take it. Even last night with my group of five other I saw the red animation in ic and new it was a nb. I held block he did the prox det soul tether combo. All but 2 of us died. I threw a javelin jabbed him to near death and dropped a meteor on him for good measure. Then we rezzed our friends. He came back half a dozen times. He died every time. No match for those with Inpen and hardy. Never will be. He was using the new crafted alchemy set. He was using essence of spell power pots. I know this because he qq me about wearing heavy armor and being a tank. I said I don't wear any heavy armor. He said I was a liar. So I linked each piece he said oh you run Inpen, yeah duh it's pvp. Well there is a lesson in learn to play for him and all of us. If you are going to hunt don't be the prey.
So they didn't work in a fear when they saw you block it the first few times? Didn't adjust tactics when it didn't work the next few times? I'm pretty terrible in PVP but even I'd try to adjust tactics after hitting my head into a brick wall.
That said, you sound like your anti crit and magic builds. So, what other magicka builds work better than the proxy det mageblade? You mentioned the only difficulty you seem to have is stamina builds uding wrecking blow or steel tornado right?
Even if he feared, As long as you have around 25k~ hp, a nice amount of impen, enough into cp, you won't die.
If your a sorc make sure your shields are up.
If your magicka, pretty much using harness means they can't crit you and the burst won't kill you.
Stamina, you should have more armour anyway, but do the same, high impen, high cp into resistant/ele defender, 25k~ hp, you won't die.
You won't die in one shot, assuming your not in a group with vicious death proccing off a death, but you'll likely still be hurting with an enemy still full of magicka that can spam executes and gap closers. And saving that, cloaking away to wait for another opportunity would still be viable too, unless they are right on top of you after.
Still, not hearing many reasons not to run similar magicka builds using proxy det + gap closer + some high damage ultimate, which makes it almost a requirement to run a skill intended to take on zergs against a majority of single targets that may not have the gear or CP to ever build against it.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »It does, what, 3k when you block it?
3k/8seconds = 375 DPS.
If you block it, it's a joke. Tooltip on prox is ~10k. With a modest 15k resist, 18% CP mitigation and Battle Spirit, that 10k turns into, wait for it...
3,646 without even blocking. That's including legendary Nirn and 5 light penetration. Do the math. Single target prox is a joke by itself, much like this thread.
Also to expand on this using your own numbers
My Crushing Shock does 2752 x3 = 8256
Cut that to 4128 due to Battle Spirit
Now lets Add 18% into Elemental Defender (1,486 off base tooltip)
So we get
8256 - 4128 - 1486 =2642 total damage (Before Spell Resist is taken into account)
As a single target spell Proxy Det is better then Crushing Shock, in fact its better then 70% of the games single target abilties from a damage dealt to resource cost scenario. AOEs are only supposed to be effective cost per cast when hitting multiple targets, but Proxy Det is an exception to this rule...I don't think that was in the spirit of the devs when they created this skill specifically to fight large numbers. Again, just my 2 cents...I don't like AOE that are more effective and cost efficennt then most of their single target counterparts....
Crushing shock is an interupt, has a range of 28m and is an instant skill.
Wtf are you comparing them for. Thats like comparing hardened ward to proxy.
All the people saying it hits far to hard single target. Velicous curse does similar dmg single target, takes 3.5s?
Stop running full divines and throw on a few pieces of impen, don't run around with 20k hp, and put points in hardy/elemental defender and Resistant.
And suddenly the proxy no long hits you for 12k...
Except prox hits everyone around you. As a single target ability the number one counter should always be that you have to pick one target for them to receive the dmg.
Templar radial sweeps ulti is an AOE dmg spell that while has an AOE component is designed to do substantial dmg to enemies ahead of you.
And yes prox det is better than some ultimates in burst dmg.
Proxy det is just dmg, what ult only does dmg.
Templar sweep is just a bad ult, the only morph thats useful is the one that reduces dmg.
Anyway you was complaining about it being such a good single target skill? It's ok, it's not amazing if people actually have pvp gear and don't run around with divines. Imov pots, block beats proxy. High hp/impen/ele defending beats the burst.
Prox det shouldn't beat an ulti designed with single target aspects. That just means certain ultimates underperforming in relation to prox det. Some ultimates are made to be more utility than dmg (Templar healing, negate, etc.)but that's besides the point.
Inevitable det morph works as designed since even if you use it as a single target spell, its high cast time opens you up to hurt plus your enemy has to move into a zerg for it to do obscene dmg.
The argument is that the prox det should function as a group busting skill, especially in areas where seige cannot be used. Having this powerful tool should be limited in single target because as it stands, its starting to make the classes become more homogenous.
We cannot have true class balance if this skill continues to provide better burst than most class/weapon spells.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just wait until people realise alchemist isn't only good for proxy.
Then you'll have stamina snipers with 5k wpn dmg, 45k stamina, with an empowered guarantee snipe with 190%~ Crit dmg modifier. From 54+ meters away.
All hail the 24k tooltip snipes...PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
GRxKnight✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Just wait until people realise alchemist isn't only good for proxy.
Then you'll have stamina snipers with 5k wpn dmg, 45k stamina, with an empowered guarantee snipe with 190%~ Crit dmg modifier. From 54+ meters away.
All hail the 24k tooltip snipes...
It'll one shot my hardened ward...and then I'll recast itMember of Victorem, RÁGE ; Decibel Alumni (RIP)
Kalista Schefer: VR16 AD Sorcerer; Alliance Rank 22
Noxus-Katarina: VR16 AD NB; Alliance Rank 30
Grxknight: VR16 AD DK; Alliance Rank 16
Lorelie Aedel: VR16 AD Templar; Alliance Rank 80 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Just wait until people realise alchemist isn't only good for proxy.
Then you'll have stamina snipers with 5k wpn dmg, 45k stamina, with an empowered guarantee snipe with 190%~ Crit dmg modifier. From 54+ meters away.
All hail the 24k tooltip snipes...
It'll one shot my hardened ward...and then I'll recast it
It'll stun you, then the next one will crit for 24k.
Gl.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...2