Proximity Detonation - Its time for a serious disscussion ZOS

GRxKnight

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Whole heartedly agree...the only builds that do insane single target prox damage are those spec'd to do just that abs tradeoff resource management and survivability in order to achieve this...seems fair to me

RinaldoGandolphi

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Name me one other AOE in the game that hits a single target for 5k after Battle Spirit? The only one that even comes close to that is Steel Tornado and thats only if the person is CC and low on health. (Because dual wield has a passive that increases damage against rooted, stunned, etc enemies and Tornado has an execute feature so its good for group synergy) So it only does so under specific circumstances.

As for your bolded part, i agree that Battle Spirit has reduced damage too low, but everyone relying on the same PBAOE skill in every situation to kill people isn't the answer moving forward either and i think we can both agree on that. My solution is the same as what many have been saying for months which is scaling back the Battle Spirit damage and healing debuffs because right now damage isn't high enough and at the same time reworking and giving the said classes viable executes so they don't need to rely on Proxy Det in the 1st place. That way Proxy Det can actually fill full the niche it was intended for while the other use cases you talk about won't have those problems.

Honestly though this game is a mess from a balance standpoint all the way up to Battle Spirit is just one big mega mess up of epic proportions.

RinaldoGandolphi

KenaPKK wrote: »

Proxy Det needs to be deleted, AoE caps need to be removed, and dynamic ulti regen needs to be reimplemented in a milder form than before.

But ZoS doesn't understand how their game works...

At the very least, Proxy Det needs to deal a quarter of its current damage against single targets. It should be lower than an Impulse but scale waaaay high against multiple people.

QFT

_Chaos

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Name me one other AOE in the game that hits a single target for 5k after Battle Spirit?

Fire Ring.

RinaldoGandolphi

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Name me one other AOE in the game that hits a single target for 5k after Battle Spirit?

Fire Ring.

After Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil? Thats new to me. I don't get 5k Fire Rings with more then 3.5k SD and gold Nirnhoned Staff i don't get those kinda numbers even with 100 in Elemental Expert and 60+ in Elfborn. I easily get those numbers in PVE, but not in PVP and im not counting the DOT...most folks in PVP use Pulsar for the 10% health debuff.

GRxKnight

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Name me one other AOE in the game that hits a single target for 5k after Battle Spirit?

Fire Ring.

After Battle Spirit in Cyrodiil? Thats new to me. I don't get 5k Fire Rings with more then 3.5k SD and gold Nirnhoned Staff i don't get those kinda numbers even with 100 in Elemental Expert and 60+ in Elfborn. I easily get those numbers in PVE, but not in PVP and im not counting the DOT...most folks in PVP use Pulsar for the 10% health debuff.

I use fire ring (mostly cause someone else is running pulsar) and i get around 5k with 37k magicka and 3k spell damage...remember max magicka adds to damage output as well

CP5

Xeven wrote: »

Rinaldo the last thing we need to be worried about is s*** doing too much damage. People need to die faster. The current battle spirit is absurd.

You can't compare crushing shock to proxy. For one you can do 8 crushing shocks for every 1 prox det. One is sustained DPS the other is burst. Theyre not even in the same category.

I've already shown that the single target damage vs someone who is not a scrub is manageable. You start taking away single target burst from magicka users, and you'll never kill anything.

The problem with this game is not proxy, it's FAR from proxy, and you're wasting your *** time talking about proxy.

You realize ZOS halved damage in cyrodiil because they didn't want people to be insta-gibbed, right? They wanted people to have a chance to fight back, for there to be time to do something other than get cc'ed once and fall over dead. The fact that ZOS then made a meta where you almost need to be burst down since anything less was almost meaningless is what needs to be addressed. More resource management, less insane burst.

frozywozy

There has been as least 4 threads during the PTS regarding this issue. Quoted Gina, Wheeler, Wrobel and the pope, got no reply or ETA about it. It came live, and as predicted, is hitting like a truck now.

So many people in this thread claiming this is a L2P issue and advising to wear more impen or to put more points in resistant. Son, I've got all of that already and people still crit me for 12-14k prox det. I don't care about your spreadsheets and your numbers. The damage needs to be scaled down against less than 5 players by another 30%.

Magicka DK doesn't need the prox burst to be effective. Magicka DK needs to be more tanky so they can slot more offensive abilities and be able to relay on their dots stacking which is the most beautiful strength about the class, but hasn't been possible since they nerfed perma blocking.

Xeven

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Proxy Det As an AOE(thats what the skill is) is too effective in single target scenarios.

So, you're saying 4-5k single target, unblocked, is too high? Why do you think it's too high, and how do you propose a magicka templar/nightblade for example burst down high end players? You only complain. You do not provide any solutions for your imaginary problems, let alone the problems you would create.

Name me one other AOE in the game that hits a single target for 5k after Battle Spirit? The only one that even comes close to that is Steel Tornado and thats only if the person is CC and low on health.

Steel Tornado is spamable, therefore it is not a "burst" skill. Proxy is intended to be a burst skill, and 5k is just fine all things considered. 8 second cooldown, big red circle, blockable, etc.

I think what you don't like is being bursted. You are a Sorc. Currently the only thing that can take out your stack is a proxy burst. You dont like that. Get over it.

Xeven

frozywozy wrote: »

So many people in this thread claiming this is a L2P issue and advising to wear more impen or to put more points in resistant. Son, I've got all of that already and people still crit me for 12-14k prox det.

Don't stand in the circle.

DHale

frozywozy wrote: »

There has been as least 4 threads during the PTS regarding this issue. Quoted Gina, Wheeler, Wrobel and the pope, got no reply or ETA about it. It came live, and as predicted, is hitting like a truck now.

So many people in this thread claiming this is a L2P issue and advising to wear more impen or to put more points in resistant. Son, I've got all of that already and people still crit me for 12-14k prox det. I don't care about your spreadsheets and your numbers. The damage needs to be scaled down against less than 5 players by another 30%.

Magicka DK doesn't need the prox burst to be effective. Magicka DK needs to be more tanky so they can slot more offensive abilities and be able to relay on their dots stacking which is the most beautiful strength about the class, but hasn't been possible since they nerfed perma blocking.

I have to say you have leaped on me for more than any prox det has ever hit me for with one exception, your 70 plus time Emperor in this entire game. Last time was nickel or Sej porch. So glad to scale it down when they nerf leap. Otherwise just run proxy which anyone can do.

frozywozy

DHale wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

There has been as least 4 threads during the PTS regarding this issue. Quoted Gina, Wheeler, Wrobel and the pope, got no reply or ETA about it. It came live, and as predicted, is hitting like a truck now.

So many people in this thread claiming this is a L2P issue and advising to wear more impen or to put more points in resistant. Son, I've got all of that already and people still crit me for 12-14k prox det. I don't care about your spreadsheets and your numbers. The damage needs to be scaled down against less than 5 players by another 30%.

Magicka DK doesn't need the prox burst to be effective. Magicka DK needs to be more tanky so they can slot more offensive abilities and be able to relay on their dots stacking which is the most beautiful strength about the class, but hasn't been possible since they nerfed perma blocking.

I have to say you have leaped on me for more than any prox det has ever hit me for with one exception, your 70 plus time Emperor in this entire game. Last time was nickel or Sej porch. So glad to scale it down when they nerf leap. Otherwise just run proxy which anyone can do.

You are probably mistaking me for someone else. I've been emperor only once for 24hours, during the second cycle of Thornblade. But yeah Dragon Leap hits too hard and I wouldn't mind a nerf to that skill aswell. As long as they fix the root bug which has been happening more than never before lately.. x.x

Can't compare Leap to prox det though. Firstly, Leap is an ultimate. Secondly, Leap cannot be pre-casted and timed with different skills hitting all at once.

bitaken

I see now - it's the stam builds asking to nerf magicka builds.

As if magicka is somehow OP now...

Master_Kas

KenaPKK wrote: »

Proxy Det needs to be deleted, AoE caps need to be removed, and dynamic ulti regen needs to be reimplemented in a milder form than before.

But ZoS doesn't understand how their game works...

At the very least, Proxy Det needs to deal a quarter of its current damage against single targets. It should be lower than an Impulse but scale waaaay high against multiple people.

Why should it be lower than impulse when it only can explode once every 8 seconds? ;P I agree it should deal less damage to 1-2 players tough .

DHale

frozywozy wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

There has been as least 4 threads during the PTS regarding this issue. Quoted Gina, Wheeler, Wrobel and the pope, got no reply or ETA about it. It came live, and as predicted, is hitting like a truck now.

So many people in this thread claiming this is a L2P issue and advising to wear more impen or to put more points in resistant. Son, I've got all of that already and people still crit me for 12-14k prox det. I don't care about your spreadsheets and your numbers. The damage needs to be scaled down against less than 5 players by another 30%.

Magicka DK doesn't need the prox burst to be effective. Magicka DK needs to be more tanky so they can slot more offensive abilities and be able to relay on their dots stacking which is the most beautiful strength about the class, but hasn't been possible since they nerfed perma blocking.

I have to say you have leaped on me for more than any prox det has ever hit me for with one exception, your 70 plus time Emperor in this entire game. Last time was nickel or Sej porch. So glad to scale it down when they nerf leap. Otherwise just run proxy which anyone can do.

You are probably mistaking me for someone else. I've been emperor only once for 24hours, during the second cycle of Thornblade. But yeah Dragon Leap hits too hard and I wouldn't mind a nerf to that skill aswell. As long as they fix the root bug which has been happening more than never before lately.. x.x

Can't compare Leap to prox det though. Firstly, Leap is an ultimate. Secondly, Leap cannot be pre-casted and timed with different skills hitting all at once.

Sorry to be unclear so you have leaped on me many times with Frozn I gave those 2 situations as an example. The only prox det that hits harder than Frozn's leap is when A demons name who shall not be named is emp and his prox det is almost as powerful as your leap when he is not emp. The only other leap that exceeds yours by a large margin is the wrath of poli on DC when he is emp or when he is not emporer. His leaps are the hardest I have ever been hit in the game period. Most dks with blood spawn can get a leap up in 8 seconds. Just saying that it's very comparable IMO and not wanting nerfs of any kind. Personally, I use prox to keep ambush spammers from being well ambush spammers. More than once one nb or three have all learned that a prox det mid port ruins your whole weekend.

Lava_Croft

Proximity Detonation is still a viable single target damage skill and therefore the single target damage needs to be lowered.

DHale

In answer to the question I do have trouble with the Stam builds on PC a lot more ppl are running magic builds so I try to defend against what is most likely to go against. Steel tornados... RIP.