Satiar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s awesome.

Ofc it´s affecting DK and Templar the most as they have no access to a magica based runspeed morph (that should be subject to change). Rapid with speed + soft cc immunity while healing was too powerful. This should under no circumstance be subject to change again.

If people in bigger grps don´t like it - it´s a good change. You´re not supposed to like it. It was meant to hurt.

It has absolutely no effect on our 3 to 6 person grps (apart from enemies not being able to chase as good because their bol spamming healers can´t keep up with DDs - which is good).

Is that a joke? Try playing a small group trying to kite bombard and snare spammers while trying to heal/purge of the debuffs of the enemy zerg chasing you xD

Big groups still have the numbers on their side, small group doesnt.

Edit: wops didn't see who posted it. This affects smaller groups harder than big ones imo. In big groups I got the protection of aoe caps, more heals, more damage dealers. When I play small groups, you need to be able to kite and rebuff/heal up. With this change that's not possible unless you want to be permarooted and snared to death while all their friends come running after you.This change pushes ppl into bigger groups I think.

I'm guessing his small man group all have self-sufficient heals. Because this change otherwise equally effects small groups and zergs.

Not really equally. Zergs can afford to lose more numbers than small/medium groups can.

I'm playing on my sorc mostly anyway so I can pop immovable pot + streak and hardened through breaches and chokepoints. And I run duo / smallgroups latley only so I'm not biased. Can't tell how many times we tried to recover while a angry zerg hunts us down and snares/roots us while we cant heal or purge to even have a chance to kite decently. But this is my opinion you don't have to agree.

Oh, I agree from that respect. I meant there is nothing mechanically different about this spell or how it functions if you have a group of 24 or 4.

I also don't like how this change punishes certain classes more than others. As a sorcerer, I could care less about it. As a templar, it's a whole different story.

That´s why mag DK and templar need a magica speed morph at their disposal. Snare + root immunity while spamming heals was just stupidly op imo.

Maybe, but everyone could do it. Now as a magica build, what really can you do if a few people get on you with bombard? 1-2 dodge rolls and than....?

timidobserver wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

I do not like the change, but ball groups do go down a lot easier now.

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

Draxys wrote: »

This has become a ridiculous trend since 1.6 update. No one wanted these mechanics changed. No one asked for it, and they didn't even poll the community. They don't play their own game, that much is obvious. So who the hell is telling them to do this stuff? This kind of thing has happened every update it feels like.

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

This is probably one of the best change to counter large groups. You are still winning, Zheg, because there aren't any devoted, active and experienced 24men group still present to offer you any kind of challenge. DC has been the master faction for half a year at least and it is not near to change.

The Maneuver nerf is still one of the best thing Wrobel could have done to counter ballgroups. I just wish he would have sticked to unpurgable meatbags while redesigning the purge mechanism but I guess it was too much asking.

Overall, the change has been working like a charm. When a group runs inside a breach, I usually siege them as much as I can to force them to purge and lose the maneuver buff, then I jump in and cast as many roots and snares as possible to slow them down. It doesn't work well against experienced groups who have people assigned to maneuvers only with 4k stam recovery but on more casual groups, it actually gives us a chance to slow them down and take control of a part of the fight.

It has in no way reduced the effectiveness of any small group I have been running with. Small groups don't relay on maneuvers to run away from a zerg. They relay on spreading out to create confusion and on LoS / choke points. If you are fighting openfield with 6players against a 24men ballgroup, you deserve to die.

Draxys wrote: »

This has become a ridiculous trend since 1.6 update. No one wanted these mechanics changed. No one asked for it, and they didn't even poll the community. They don't play their own game, that much is obvious. So who the hell is telling them to do this stuff? This kind of thing has happened every update it feels like.

Tons of people asked for Maneuvers mechanism to be changed.

Again, well done @Wrobel

ToRelax wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

This is probably one of the best change to counter large groups. You are still winning, Zheg, because there aren't any devoted, active and experienced 24men group still present to offer you any kind of challenge. DC has been the master faction for half a year at least and it is not near to change.

The Maneuver nerf is still one of the best thing Wrobel could have done to counter ballgroups. I just wish he would have sticked to unpurgable meatbags while redesigning the purge mechanism but I guess it was too much asking.

Overall, the change has been working like a charm. When a group runs inside a breach, I usually siege them as much as I can to force them to purge and lose the maneuver buff, then I jump in and cast as many roots and snares as possible to slow them down. It doesn't work well against experienced groups who have people assigned to maneuvers only with 4k stam recovery but on more casual groups, it actually gives us a chance to slow them down and take control of a part of the fight.

Again, well done @Wrobel

If your breach tactic doesn't work well on experienced groups, then how exactly does this all add up to being a good thing? The rapids nerf lets you kill pugs and inexperienced players better, so it's yay-worthy? And more importantly, how will people sprint away from fights at lightning speed with the snare/root meta? xD

There are hardly any groups left to fight, but that is an artifact of wrobel and ZOS' inability to fix the lag. We (and the other blue guilds) will all be gone in a few months as well, we just didn't want to make the temporary jump to a filler-game like BDO.

If we're being fully honest, we haven't even employed some of the more cheese-tacular tactics we theorycrafted in response to the changes because we haven't needed to use them yet. The only thing that will 'kill ball groups' is a viable alternative on the market for everyone to just finally pull the plug and leave ESO.

No one is complaining about the rapids nerf because it kills ball groups (even though it's clearly aimed at anti-group play), people are complaining almost exclusively because no one wants to move at a snails pace for all of their pvp fights and it affects everyone - not just groups; we have people running bombard and talons too, you'll be just as rooted as us brah. The other complaint is that it artificially favors some classes over others because @Wrobel has asinine ideas about 'homogenization'.

It's "yay-worthy" because it takes an advantage away from an already heavily favoured style of play. It may not be enough to make more experienced players using it switch consider switching that out completely, but it goes in the right direction. It certainly does not help combat random zergs, just bad zergballs.

Zheg wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

This is probably one of the best change to counter large groups. You are still winning, Zheg, because there aren't any devoted, active and experienced 24men group still present to offer you any kind of challenge. DC has been the master faction for half a year at least and it is not near to change.

The Maneuver nerf is still one of the best thing Wrobel could have done to counter ballgroups. I just wish he would have sticked to unpurgable meatbags while redesigning the purge mechanism but I guess it was too much asking.

Overall, the change has been working like a charm. When a group runs inside a breach, I usually siege them as much as I can to force them to purge and lose the maneuver buff, then I jump in and cast as many roots and snares as possible to slow them down. It doesn't work well against experienced groups who have people assigned to maneuvers only with 4k stam recovery but on more casual groups, it actually gives us a chance to slow them down and take control of a part of the fight.

Again, well done @Wrobel

If your breach tactic doesn't work well on experienced groups, then how exactly does this all add up to being a good thing? The rapids nerf lets you kill pugs and inexperienced players better, so it's yay-worthy? And more importantly, how will people sprint away from fights at lightning speed with the snare/root meta? xD

If we're being fully honest, we haven't even employed some of the more cheese-tacular tactics we theorycrafted in response to the changes because we haven't needed to use them yet. The only thing that will 'kill ball groups' is a viable alternative on the market for everyone to just finally pull the plug and leave ESO.

No one is complaining about the rapids nerf because it kills ball groups (even though it's clearly aimed at anti-group play), people are complaining almost exclusively because no one wants to move at a snails pace for all of their pvp fights and it affects everyone - not just groups; we have people running bombard and talons too, you'll be just as rooted as us brah. The other complaint is that it artificially favors some classes over others because @Wrobel has asinine ideas about 'homogenization'.

Zheg wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

The rapids nerf needs to go. Wrobel implemented it because this is supposed to be the anti-group patch and he's trying to kill ball groups, but guess what, even with perma roots and no barriers we're still winning. I give him a one finger salute for his efforts, and request that he undo the damage this change has done for all styles of pvp.

You don't even have to pvp to realize what the meta has become. You can literally stand on top of a wall and watch people fighting and realize how slow everyone is moving.

I do not like the change, but ball groups do go down a lot easier now.

Not only that..but Zheg is bragging before Vicious Death becomes Meta.

I have a feeling he's going to be sitting on that middle finger soon enough.

Weren't you supposed to have quit the game as per that cry-for-attention thread? VD only works if people die, so you'll have to actually kill us first, you know, like that one time at band camp DAOC.

Satiar wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

It´s awesome.

Ofc it´s affecting DK and Templar the most as they have no access to a magica based runspeed morph (that should be subject to change). Rapid with speed + soft cc immunity while healing was too powerful. This should under no circumstance be subject to change again.

If people in bigger grps don´t like it - it´s a good change. You´re not supposed to like it. It was meant to hurt.

It has absolutely no effect on our 3 to 6 person grps (apart from enemies not being able to chase as good because their bol spamming healers can´t keep up with DDs - which is good).

Is that a joke? Try playing a small group trying to kite bombard and snare spammers while trying to heal/purge of the debuffs of the enemy zerg chasing you xD

Big groups still have the numbers on their side, small group doesnt.

Edit: wops didn't see who posted it. This affects smaller groups harder than big ones imo. In big groups I got the protection of aoe caps, more heals, more damage dealers. When I play small groups, you need to be able to kite and rebuff/heal up. With this change that's not possible unless you want to be permarooted and snared to death while all their friends come running after you.This change pushes ppl into bigger groups I think.

I'm guessing his small man group all have self-sufficient heals. Because this change otherwise equally effects small groups and zergs.

Not really equally. Zergs can afford to lose more numbers than small/medium groups can.

I'm playing on my sorc mostly anyway so I can pop immovable pot + streak and hardened through breaches and chokepoints. And I run duo / smallgroups latley only so I'm not biased. Can't tell how many times we tried to recover while a angry zerg hunts us down and snares/roots us while we cant heal or purge to even have a chance to kite decently. But this is my opinion you don't have to agree.

Oh, I agree from that respect. I meant there is nothing mechanically different about this spell or how it functions if you have a group of 24 or 4.

I also don't like how this change punishes certain classes more than others. As a sorcerer, I could care less about it. As a templar, it's a whole different story.

That´s why mag DK and templar need a magica speed morph at their disposal. Snare + root immunity while spamming heals was just stupidly op imo.

Maybe, but everyone could do it. Now as a magica build, what really can you do if a few people get on you with bombard? 1-2 dodge rolls and than....?