If it was grief-proof, would you like to see Justice System phase 2 - PvP?

Whatzituyah · March 2016

Yes

MercyKilling wrote: »

Umm............lemme think.......no. Leave PvP where it is. Out of sight, out of mind.

So Cyrodil theoretical doesn't exist to PVE characters?

I first came into this thread asking myself "Since when?" but than realized how it could be griefed and not suprised it was dropped. But here me out this is the reason server types exist sure this means a 4 more servers 2 for both PVE and PVP than 2 others for PVP. Is it worth it? It possibly can be because you can pull in both crowds.

Farorin · March 2016

Yes

I don't care if it is fair, or grief proof, it would be fun and exciting to be on either end of the stick (Filthy, rotten criminal, or self righteous ass hole guard), and that is what matters. So long as there was possibility for escape for criminals, and so long as other players seeing you commit crimes didn't penalize you (so still only NPCs as is now), I see no problem with it.

Whatzituyah · March 2016

Yes

@Farorin as long as guards are killable than count me in.

Farorin · March 2016

Yes

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@Farorin as long as guards are killable than count me in.

Ah yes, of course. That was something I forgot to mention and would want as well. It wouldn't make sense to have OP godlike guards if players could get in on it too.

Dubhliam · March 2016

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

There is no possible way to make grief proof PvP it should be seperate from PvE at least in this game.

[snip]

So you mean to say that in no possible universe could ZOS make a decent job out of something.

Also, just proves my point that other than "grief", people don't have much to throw at PvP Justice, do they?

[edited for baiting comment]

Dubhliam · March 2016

Also, just to give you a glimpse of "separating PvP from PvE".

One of the things they could do is "PvP heists":
- Level 50+ members of the Thief Guild can take PvP heist jobs (separate from normal Heists) that take them into instanced areas with X treasure chests.
- Level 50+ members of the Iron Wheel can register for a job, then a Cyro-like queue would jump them into an occupied instance with a thief inside. (1TG, 1IW max)
- The goal of the thief is to get as much treasure possible without getting caught (gains nothing from killing guard).
- The goal of the guard is to capture the thief or at least prevent him from looting all chests in time.

Kind of like hide and seek.

See? Out of sight. For all those boys that cried "immersion".

idk · March 2016

What is the purpose of this poll. It really says nothing.

MercyKilling · March 2016

No

&deleted*

Dubhliam · March 2016

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

What is the purpose of this poll. It really says nothing.

The purpose is that people assume this system cannot be done without people being able to exploit and grief.

That is the sole reason they oppose this system.

If it could be done grief-proof, they have no reason to hate this system. Yet they firmly refuse to believe it is possible.
They keep pointing fingers at IC as if that was in any way similar.

MercyKilling · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

Dubhliam · March 2016

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

They have made it very clear the pvp portion of the justice system has been scrapped. Period. The end. They arent working on it. Wont be working on it.

[minor edit for quote]

Elloa · March 2016

No

My vote is strictly personal (meaning selfish, and not thinking of the benefice of the community)

I'm really enjoying the game without PVP included.

That being said, I believe its possible to introduce a PVP element without imposing it to anyone that want to enjoy ESO Justice System..but still. I'm happier without it.

Dubhliam · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

They have made it very clear the pvp portion of the justice system has been scrapped. Period. The end. They arent working on it. Wont be working on it.

Does the picture in my initial post elude you?
Why teach me something I already know very well?

[minor edit to remove quote]

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

They have made it very clear the pvp portion of the justice system has been scrapped. Period. The end. They arent working on it. Wont be working on it. Is that clear enough?

Does the picture in my initial post elude you?
Why teach me something I already know very well?

You seem to think somehow by posting and talking various hypothetical somehow they will decide to go through with it. This was the final word on the topic from Matt Frior (possibly mispelled his name lol).

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

So why even bring it up? Waste of time.

SlayerTheDragon · March 2016

No

I just want duelling....

babylon · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

BUT!
If there was no possible way you could "accidentally" steal something, or whatnot...

Uh no, I still want to steal, but I don't want to interact with you or any other player, I only want to deal with NPCs.

So a big fat NO to your idea about trying to prevent PVE players from experiencing the Justice System.

Dubhliam · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

They have made it very clear the pvp portion of the justice system has been scrapped. Period. The end. They arent working on it. Wont be working on it. Is that clear enough?

Does the picture in my initial post elude you?
Why teach me something I already know very well?

You seem to think somehow by posting and talking various hypothetical somehow they will decide to go through with it. This was the final word on the topic from Matt Frior (possibly mispelled his name lol).

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

So why even bring it up? Waste of time.

Take a look at the last paragraph of Matt's quote.
PvP in PvP areas.
Then take a look at my post above about PvP heists in instanced areas.

A system can be implemented in a million different ways, yet when people think about it, they always tend to imagine the worst possible implementation and take that as a true reference.

Aelthwyn · March 2016

No

No.

Even if they implemented a no steal toggle like the no targeting innocents, even if they had a no healing criminals toggle, even if they changed all quests that require you to do crime so player enforcers couldn’t camp out at known quest points and prevent people from completing those objectives, even if they could somehow prevent players blockading the entrance to thieves refuges and standing guard over chests etc., even if they prevented innocent by standers from getting hurt or drawn into a fight, even if they prevented player enforcers from killing you for petty bounties you would have payed off to a guard, even if they prevented player enforcers from specifically watching/tailing/targeting certain players just waiting to jump on every attempt to advance their ledgermain skill or theives guild/dark brother hood quests in the future, even if they could somehow prevent enforcer groups from trying to gang up on criminals and criminal groups from ganging up on enforcers in return resulting in massive fights, etc. I would not personally like to see this implemented because:
- I don’t care for battles and chaos in my nice quiet cities, which we already have enough of with the NPC guards catching people, PVP battles seem way more crazy to me
- I don’t care for markets and towns becoming more crowded with people just hanging around patrolling for criminals on top of the NPCs that are also patrolling, instead of taking care of business and moving on.
- I don’t care for the… tense, wary, unfriendliness I think this could cause among the player population of the same faction while in PvE zones, nor do I care for the out-to-get-others self-righteous attitude or the desire to get back at the ‘upstanding citizen’ types which such a system promotes, as it just seems all too likely to attract the trolls so to speak.
- I don’t want to see zone chat full of people angry about it, or whining about it, or taunts, etc.

While I’m sure they could take many measures to prevent griefing, I feel there are some unavoidable aspects I would not enjoy even if I wasn’t an active participant, and I’m not confident that even with the best efforts that they could really stop all those determined to find a way to be obnoxious to others.

Lysette · March 2016

No

Grief-proof as in what? - never commited a crime, never reported for harrasment, never used foul words, having no ledgerdemain skill line (because that tracks crime), never killed someone innocent, never murdered anybody - stuff like that?

LiquidSchwartz · March 2016

Yes

Yes this would be nice along with pvp arenas but it will never happen bc zos sucks

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

They have made it very clear the pvp portion of the justice system has been scrapped. Period. The end. They arent working on it. Wont be working on it. Is that clear enough?

Does the picture in my initial post elude you?
Why teach me something I already know very well?

You seem to think somehow by posting and talking various hypothetical somehow they will decide to go through with it. This was the final word on the topic from Matt Frior (possibly mispelled his name lol).

We will not be adding in the previously discussed PvP component of the Justice System. We caveated this many times - as I said at the ESO QuakeCon presentation in 2014, it was always going to be very difficult making it fun, but not exploitable. When introducing new systems to the game, our number one goal is to make sure that we don't introduce new problems. Having players enforce justice on the criminal activity of other players has the potential to introduce imbalances and other issues that greatly outweigh any potential gameplay benefits. The game's central concept of "PvP in PvP areas and be safe in safe areas" needs to stay the way it is.

So why even bring it up? Waste of time.

Take a look at the last paragraph of Matt's quote.
PvP in PvP areas.
Then take a look at my post above about PvP heists in instanced areas.

A system can be implemented in a million different ways, yet when people think about it, they always tend to imagine the worst possible implementation and take that as a true reference.

You still dont get it tho. Its been scrapped. They arent working on it. They arent going to work on it. Im sure minds [snip] at ZOS tried a million ways to make it work. In the end they figured out noone wanted it and it was too much of a pain to implement.

[edit for flame]

Duiwel · March 2016

Yes

This is easy no one with a bounty under 500gold - 1000gold can be attacked.

How many people who steal actually get caught with a bounty that high?

Unless they are killing livestock and don't care about a bounty?

This can also be fixed by avoiding cities so you can only be killed (for your bounty) inside cities.

In the open world or Cyrodiil your bounty doesn't trigger.

No idea why the devs didn't think of that. They just promised us things @ launch and retract their word

MercyKilling · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

Well, I do not factor in any "DLC" into my posts for I do not OWN any "DLC". If griefing occurs there, then I am blissfully unaware of it and will never experience it until ZoS sees fit to make it free for me to download and play.

Edit:

The point is: there are many reasons not to implement this. You just cannot or will not grasp the theory behind them all.

Tandor · March 2016

No

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

There is one other reason it shouldn't be done, and that is that it constitutes the imposition of PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas.

I understand why serious PvPers want to be able to jump casual PvEers, it's the nature of the beast, but we have to be honest and recognise that what people are asking for is simply open world PvP masquerading as some sort of a "justice" system. It wholly distorts a major aspect of the game in terms of bringing the Thieves Guild and potentially the Dark Brotherhood content into a hybrid PvE/PvP mix, and that is a mix that is proven not to work. Prudent developers will provide plenty of content for both styles of play, but not mix them together.

Whatzituyah · March 2016

Yes

Well if this is never going to happen why not let the guards go fight Molag Bal they seem to be more than capable if they are invincible. *Little nudge to the current Justice System*

Dubhliam · March 2016

Tandor wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

MercyKilling wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

If it could be done grief-proof,

You sir, are obviously and painfully unaware of the inescapable fact of internet gaming.

To wit; if it CAN be abused it most certainly will be, and nothing is totally grief proof.

And you sir have no understanding of the word assume.
The point is: is there any other reason this should not be implemented?

There is one DLC that has griefing and it still stands, go take out your frustrations about IC to topics related to IC ganking.

There is one other reason it shouldn't be done, and that is that it constitutes the imposition of PvP penalties for PvE crimes in PvE areas.

I understand why serious PvPers want to be able to jump casual PvEers, it's the nature of the beast, but we have to be honest and recognise that what people are asking for is simply open world PvP masquerading as some sort of a "justice" system. It wholly distorts a major aspect of the game in terms of bringing the Thieves Guild and potentially the Dark Brotherhood content into a hybrid PvE/PvP mix, and that is a mix that is proven not to work. Prudent developers will provide plenty of content for both styles of play, but not mix them together.

People misunderstand me if they think I just want to "pwn" casual PvEers.
I am not a PvPer myself, have barely made it to rank 4 so I can have my Agressive Horn for tanking.

People fear open world PvP, I get that. Even though their fear is misplaced since nobody would be participating unwillingly.

What I want from ZOS is not a rework of the current Justice System. I want for it to be expanded.
Leave everything currently in place.
Give us cops and robbers.
Has anyone here ever played Payday? Ofc you have.

Why not make it that if a thief gets spotted while in a Heist (instance, not open world), a player gets notified and teleported into that instance to try and catch that thief.

Seriously, I don't want PvP for the sake of battling other players.
You can have IC ganking, I don't do it nor will I ever gank.
You can have your dueling arenas, I don't want them.
All I want is an improved Justice System.

Is there any reason why improved heists should not be implemented?
Or can't any of you grasp a concept that is not open world PvP?

Majic · March 2016

No

There ain't no justice in this world.

Tan9oSuccka · March 2016

No

No thanks.

Towns would be littered with people in hiding, waiting to gank a cheap kill.

I could see it now. Grab an item on a crafting table on accident, and like PvP in general, get cheesed by 20 people spamming crystal frags/ambush/wrecking blow.

Tabbycat · March 2016

No

Even grief proof you'd still have people who would sit around in the cities all day waiting for people to commit crimes.

That would lead to increased congestion in cities.

Increased congestion would lead to lag.

More lag is bad.

Thus my answer is no because of lag.