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Siphoning Attacks no longer proccing on bash -- intended?

ThatNeonZebraAgain
ThatNeonZebraAgain
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From some testing and discussion, it appears Siphoning Attacks no longer procs from bashing (block+light attack) either on the PTS or Live server. For a bit of background, prior to the IC update, bashing had apparently counted as a direct damage attack that had a chance to proc the larger, non-basic attack stat return component of SA. Personally, I never tried or paid attention to it because I always assumed bashing didn't count as a "direct damage" attack per se. However, other NB tanks had relied on it to help manage resources by trying to get SA to proc by as many means as possible, especially with the help of bash cost reduction bonuses.

So, what experiences and insights do my fellow NBs have with this method of proccing SA?

ZOS, was this intentionally changed in the past?

For an in-depth discussion of Siphoning Attacks changes in the upcoming update, go here.
Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 26, 2016 5:06PM
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  • Ruben
    Ruben
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    The skill specifically mentions "Light and Heavy Attacks", if it worked on bash before it was a bug and it was fixed.

    As a rule of thumb, you should not rely on bugs.
    Edited by Ruben on February 26, 2016 4:31PM
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  • Autolycus
    Autolycus
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    Ruben wrote: »
    The skill specifically mentions "Light and Heavy Attacks", if it worked on bash before it was a bug and it was fixed.

    As a rule of thumb, you should not rely on bugs.

    One could argue that we shouldn't rely on things working as intended, either. ZOS has been cannibalizing NB tank utility for DPS for awhile now; it makes sense that some NB tanks would utilize the resource return where they can get it. Back when bash actually worked to proc SA, it wasn't inherently overpowered, didn't provide any unreasonable benefit, and still has a cost associated with it. Building exclusively around bashing to maintain resources is not (and never was, to my knowledge, and through my own testing) an optimal setup.

    If bashing with a shield isn't considered a light or heavy attack, then it absolutely should be. I don't think it should proc the direct damage return on SA, however bashing with a shield is very similar in nature to a light attack, which merits the basic light/heavy attack return aspect of SA (one or the other would be okay, but being excluded from either is broken imo).
    Edited by Autolycus on February 26, 2016 4:56PM
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Ruben wrote: »
    The skill specifically mentions "Light and Heavy Attacks", if it worked on bash before it was a bug and it was fixed.

    As a rule of thumb, you should not rely on bugs.

    Reread the OP please. This is about bashing being eligible for a 10% chance to proc the larger stat return amount (being considered a "direct damage" ability), not whether it counted as a light/heavy attack, which AFAIK it never did.

    And yea, playing with and balancing around long-standing bugs is a time honored tradition in ESO ;)
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 26, 2016 5:04PM
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  • code65536
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    The text was ambiguous to begin with: "basic" attacks instead of a more direct "light and heavy" attacks (e.g., what Grim Focus uses). Not sure I'd want bash to count as a "basic" attack, though, but it should definitely be eligible for the 10% proc chance if it isn't classified as "basic".
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  • Autolycus
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    code65536 wrote: »
    The text was ambiguous to begin with: "basic" attacks instead of a more direct "light and heavy" attacks (e.g., what Grim Focus uses). Not sure I'd want bash to count as a "basic" attack, though, but it should definitely be eligible for the 10% proc chance if it isn't classified as "basic".

    I would probably be okay with either one. We may differ in opinion here, which is okay, but to me bashing with a shield is just the board&sword equivalent of hitting someone with an off-hand weapon. If I am using two daggers, and my left-hand dagger hits you, I get that light/heavy resource return. If I attack with an off-hand shield, why shouldn't it apply?

    Also, please clarify for me: We are talking about bashing, i.e. blocking + light attack, and not the bash skill in board&sword, right?
    Edited by Autolycus on February 26, 2016 4:59PM
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Autolycus wrote: »
    code65536 wrote: »
    The text was ambiguous to begin with: "basic" attacks instead of a more direct "light and heavy" attacks (e.g., what Grim Focus uses). Not sure I'd want bash to count as a "basic" attack, though, but it should definitely be eligible for the 10% proc chance if it isn't classified as "basic".

    I would probably be okay with either one. We may differ in opinion here, which is okay, but to me bashing with a shield is just the board&sword equivalent of hitting someone with an off-hand weapon. If I am using two daggers, and my left-hand dagger hits you, I get that light/heavy resource return. If I attack with an off-hand shield, why shouldn't it apply?

    Also, please clarify for me: We are talking about bashing, i.e. blocking + light attack, and not the bash skill in board&sword, right?

    Yes, thanks for asking. The bashing under discussion is that done by blocking+light attack, and not the 1h/shield skill.
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on February 26, 2016 5:03PM
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  • Contraptions
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    I think most of the confusion comes from ambiguous wording. Like what exactly "basic attack" is. I would assume it means light and heavy attack, so bash as an ability should be able to proc it, unless there are internal exceptions for bash like there are for AOEs. But this is unlikely as bash procs other "on ability" and "on direct damage" effects like Bahraha's and Nerieneth.

    You could try bugging it and seeing if it gets fixed.
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  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    I think most of the confusion comes from ambiguous wording. Like what exactly "basic attack" is. I would assume it means light and heavy attack, so bash as an ability should be able to proc it, unless there are internal exceptions for bash like there are for AOEs. But this is unlikely as bash procs other "on ability" and "on direct damage" effects like Bahraha's and Nerieneth.

    You could try bugging it and seeing if it gets fixed.

    +1
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  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs.
    Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.
    I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".
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