ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

If shields are being buffed I demand Wrecking Blow receives a similar increase

NativeJoe wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

With the recent developments in pvp and pve, I believe us sorcs need a *slight*adjustment in our shields. with bosses hitting for 34k (past the threshold of 99% of sorcs ward), and pvp players hitting for 14+k Wrecking blows in pvp (which is the average sorcs shields +3k) and the coming Darkflare madness of 22k+ hits in pvp we need a slight adjustment...which is somewhat fair since we're going to be getting dots on our shields and we already have an entire set built to go right past them...

Before the rage machine starts let me say this: sorcs have 1 shield the rest of you don't have access too. and most of you have plenty of other defenses, mitigation techniques, and your *own* form of shields...

But in past metas we got a shield strong enough to repel 1 strong attack, and 2-3 lesser attacks. If we *don't* see an adjustment to our shield values we'll be relegated to our shields taking half of a strong attack, and our pve tanking abilities are being hampered as well by the absolutely *beast mode* hits even the smallest daedra can push out.

This won't hold of sorcs if we don't receive attention like this... instead of one shield most sorcs use now, we'll see alot more shield stacking and resto staves to compensate for this weakness...which would only make fighting sorcs worse (believe me on this plz) in pvp, and more sorc exclusivity in pve because if we're all running resto staves....why do we need a templar?

in other words... not giving a small buff to ward at this point , will make the next patches sorcs adapt...and that adaption won't benefit anyone.

Stop doing coke. Clearly you're numbers are way off. Sorc shields are 9k on average and ignore crit so in pvp that's 1.5 surprise attacks with upcoming cp changes it'll be 2. In pve shields are 22k+ nothing needs to be changed if anything sorcs need a nerf defensively and a buff offensively as to not be so dependent on overload. Shield stacking is clearly a broken mechanic advocating that it's not is clearly just for self gain.

Thanks I already have quit and started pepsi a long time ago. Suprise attack hits me for 9.5k ... I dunno what you are running to get it down to 2k but please tell me your secret lol. Besides shields do not get resistances from anything... so you are always taking full damage to shields. Let me put it this way... if ur running with 15k hp +9k shield next patch. imagine this in ur head... 1 javlin for 4k and ur down on the ground. you break free, and darkflare hits you for 22k. now the templar has you in critical health and could literally sneeze on you and you'd be dead. instead they jesus beam ur face off. You can spam shields all you want...but ur going to die in less then 3 seconds.

Let me put it this way... I'm against shield stacking. I want us to rely on just 1. I don't want to have endless battles with sorcs with ward+harness magicka+ healing ward... But if they don't give a slight buff to ward, we will see resto staffs as the Normal equipment for sorcs.

That new normal... has massive implications for the game as a whole. as a sorc myself... I don't want to see that change. so just "MAINTAIN" the same respective strength of shields. I'm not saying Buff them to the sky or anything.

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

ThatGuyCameron wrote: »

If shields are being buffed I demand Wrecking Blow receives a similar increase

Then I demand that my shield makes itself 20% bigger when I recast it.

Then I demand that WB functions as an execute on shielded targets.

templesus wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

You could, you know, put some points into health instead of min/max everything into magicka.

Also if you're concerned about being destroyed by enough damage to punch through your 20k+ shield and your 15k+ hp, what are the other 3 classes that don't effectively have 35k hp supposed to do? Roll over and die to constant one shots?

I do somewhat see your point but you're trying to push a sorc agenda for the effects you describe that should be hitting all classes. You're not providing any suggestions to help out the other 3 classes at all when your problem should effect them all.

The other classes have their own techniques to deal with damage. and it's not like they couldn't stack shields as well if need be. but they all have better options then that. Have you never spent 2 minutes trying to kill a DK or Templar? or fought a decent Magicka nightblade? or been in dungeons with NB tanks/templar heal tanks/ and DK tanks? Every class has their own way of dealing with high damage blows. Sorcs have ward, and streak...and you can't exactly streak around infinitly anymore, nor do I advise it in VCOA haha when ur supposed to be doing dedicated strong dps.

I'm a sorc, so I can only speak as to the "sorc issue" at hand. I don't know what it takes for a templar to get to the point they can take on 5 people and laugh at the futile attempts of molag kena to even put a 5k dent in their health. Nor do I know for dks and NBs. I just know that if you force the majority of sorcs to pick up the restoration staff to combat the damage trend... it won't be good for the game as a whole.

Because once again: if all the sorcs have restoration staves and we got 3 in group in 1 nb or dk tank... why do we need a templar? I Love my templar friends, they're useful right now. this is as much about my class as it is the usefulness of theirs.

How are you getting hit by 14k wbs when shields aren't crittable?

Valrien wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

I just started playing my Sorc. After reading your post OP, I come to only one question I feel tickled to ask.

Why would I let myself get hit to begin with?

ummm.... because as a magick based sorc you have a 2 dodge roll limit.... and you can't farm IC, dungeons, and expecially pvp (everyone has a pocket templar/stealth/vigor)etc purely defensively with daedric mines, streak, prison, and pets.

I love the templar as pet references ... by all means buff Sorc Shields (no one else's class shields thought right?). Templar's shields are battle spirit nerfed to be to weak for PVP so the class with the most mobility and burst DPS class shields can be made acceptable. I have no sympathy for Sorc shields. Every other class shield is trash so you're should be too.

NativeJoe wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

Either your delusional, or wearing heavy armor calling yourself a dps, or have a very wierd niche build where you can apparently take hits from multiple sources for 12k+ and random hits for 18-36k ...

Jeez guys. you'd think I want to give my class god mode. Can ANYONE produce an evidence that sorcs are harder to kill then any other class? ANYONE? Can any of you show me your evidence that we are OP?

here is my actual evidence.
http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

Nightblades kill me the most, I kill them the most out of any other class. we're counter classes so this makes alot of sense.

Show me evidence that sorcs are face rolling all of you with triple shield stacks, and one shotting you before you even have a chance to react.

I'm not pushing for more damage output lol... I'm trying to get a slight buff to ward so sorcs arn't forced to play more defensively... which can/will have far reaching results.

According to your "actual evidence" you kill far more then you die. 3/1 kill/deaths verse most classes ... I'd say your own evidence shows your class is OP.

Why should a Templar shield be just as good as a Sorc shield when Templars already have their defense? The damage shields for the other classes supplement their defenses. Hardened Ward is our defenses...just sayin'.

MrGigglypants wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

MrGigglypants wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

With the recent developments in pvp and pve, I believe us sorcs need a *slight*adjustment in our shields. with bosses hitting for 34k (past the threshold of 99% of sorcs ward), and pvp players hitting for 14+k Wrecking blows in pvp (which is the average sorcs shields +3k) and the coming Darkflare madness of 22k+ hits in pvp we need a slight adjustment...which is somewhat fair since we're going to be getting dots on our shields and we already have an entire set built to go right past them...

Before the rage machine starts let me say this: sorcs have 1 shield the rest of you don't have access too. and most of you have plenty of other defenses, mitigation techniques, and your *own* form of shields...

But in past metas we got a shield strong enough to repel 1 strong attack, and 2-3 lesser attacks. If we *don't* see an adjustment to our shield values we'll be relegated to our shields taking half of a strong attack, and our pve tanking abilities are being hampered as well by the absolutely *beast mode* hits even the smallest daedra can push out.

This won't hold of sorcs if we don't receive attention like this... instead of one shield most sorcs use now, we'll see alot more shield stacking and resto staves to compensate for this weakness...which would only make fighting sorcs worse (believe me on this plz) in pvp, and more sorc exclusivity in pve because if we're all running resto staves....why do we need a templar?

in other words... not giving a small buff to ward at this point , will make the next patches sorcs adapt...and that adaption won't benefit anyone.

Stop doing coke. Clearly you're numbers are way off. Sorc shields are 9k on average and ignore crit so in pvp that's 1.5 surprise attacks with upcoming cp changes it'll be 2. In pve shields are 22k+ nothing needs to be changed if anything sorcs need a nerf defensively and a buff offensively as to not be so dependent on overload. Shield stacking is clearly a broken mechanic advocating that it's not is clearly just for self gain.

Thanks I already have quit and started pepsi a long time ago. Suprise attack hits me for 9.5k ... I dunno what you are running to get it down to 2k but please tell me your secret lol. Besides shields do not get resistances from anything... so you are always taking full damage to shields. Let me put it this way... if ur running with 15k hp +9k shield next patch. imagine this in ur head... 1 javlin for 4k and ur down on the ground. you break free, and darkflare hits you for 22k. now the templar has you in critical health and could literally sneeze on you and you'd be dead. instead they jesus beam ur face off. You can spam shields all you want...but ur going to die in less then 3 seconds.

Let me put it this way... I'm against shield stacking. I want us to rely on just 1. I don't want to have endless battles with sorcs with ward+harness magicka+ healing ward... But if they don't give a slight buff to ward, we will see resto staffs as the Normal equipment for sorcs.

That new normal... has massive implications for the game as a whole. as a sorc myself... I don't want to see that change. so just "MAINTAIN" the same respective strength of shields. I'm not saying Buff them to the sky or anything.

Shields reduce dmg via champion points and being immune to crit. 9.5k is a crit with ur shield down. I run 22k health with 9k shields x 2. it takes 2 surprise attacks from well geared nb to do damage to my health assuming I don't refresh. That with immovable pots means that if I'm back peddling I can simpley refresh pot refresh curse frag and turn the tables nearly everytime. I think the matriarch buff will me you're desires though. I get what you're saying I do I just don't agree with you're view of what sorcs need. Not to mention next patch sorcs can reduce physical dmg via the hardy tree. Make shields even better.

willymchilybily wrote: »

Valrien wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

@NativeJoe I am lost with this post and conversation

My sorcerers survivablility in any PvE content far exceeds any other DPS class I can run and get okay numbers with. and i already run a restoration staff in PvE. Sure i could duelwield just to pop off overload spam but its unlikely id increase my DPS.

rapid regen from maelstrom staff gives me enough magic regen to drop the jewlery regen glyph for spell damage, which ups all my damage and not just DW overload damage. And this coupled with the spell damage from maelstrom destro is great.

so what you describe is how quite a few sorcs already run for PvE

also, I dont know what is hitting you so hard in PvE but it sounds like you or your group is doing something wrong if that is occuring.

i think you are a little Naive, your PvE groups sound terrible and messy and probably why you want more shields. 3 sorcs, so who is helping the tank's stam? Id much rather run with a templar healer because elemental drain for me + shards + repentance for tank. means your tank doesnt have to worry about resources and can round up the mobs for quicker burn, your dps can dps instead of a healing and dps messy hybrid that wastes resources. And for trash mob clearing, stam DW spin to win NB is hard to beat, that's who i'd want with me, and they are much more effective with a templar there.

I'd really recommend dropping any survival abilities in group content. And yes, dual wield is a HUGE DPS increase. Also don't do anything to increase your regen at all, the only change you should make is to slot drain of the healer can't use it...dual wield is too significant to drop for a resto staff you probably don't need. Tanks can sustain their own stam if they're good,personally I'd prefer a healtank and 3 DPS of any class. Sexiest combo ever, and all I have to change about my build is slotting my own Drain (well worth it, btw). The main issue for PvE Sorcs is sustained DPS, not shields. The issue for PvP Sorcs is shields and how they work and how both sides of the issue want a change that is usually unreasonable.

EDIT:
@Valrien
you can run any easy vet pledge content 3dps + tank or healer. and in a good enough group you can run no shield max dps. but i dont think it would be the best option when running harder dungeons. and as you cant always be in overload the question is then outside of overload. kena proccing and resource management, what is the preference, and ensuring you are building up ultimate. i dont think the offset of DW is good enough...

but I'd be interested to see your stats to see what your magicka/regn/spell D is

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

With the recent developments in pvp and pve, I believe us sorcs need a *slight*adjustment in our shields. with bosses hitting for 34k (past the threshold of 99% of sorcs ward), and pvp players hitting for 14+k Wrecking blows in pvp (which is the average sorcs shields +3k) and the coming Darkflare madness of 22k+ hits in pvp we need a slight adjustment...which is somewhat fair since we're going to be getting dots on our shields and we already have an entire set built to go right past them...

Before the rage machine starts let me say this: sorcs have 1 shield the rest of you don't have access too. and most of you have plenty of other defenses, mitigation techniques, and your *own* form of shields...

But in past metas we got a shield strong enough to repel 1 strong attack, and 2-3 lesser attacks. If we *don't* see an adjustment to our shield values we'll be relegated to our shields taking half of a strong attack, and our pve tanking abilities are being hampered as well by the absolutely *beast mode* hits even the smallest daedra can push out.

This won't hold of sorcs if we don't receive attention like this... instead of one shield most sorcs use now, we'll see alot more shield stacking and resto staves to compensate for this weakness...which would only make fighting sorcs worse (believe me on this plz) in pvp, and more sorc exclusivity in pve because if we're all running resto staves....why do we need a templar?

in other words... not giving a small buff to ward at this point , will make the next patches sorcs adapt...and that adaption won't benefit anyone.

Not reading, over pls buff shield threads. No.

NativeJoe wrote: »

Hortator Indoril Nerevar wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

With the recent developments in pvp and pve, I believe us sorcs need a *slight*adjustment in our shields. with bosses hitting for 34k (past the threshold of 99% of sorcs ward), and pvp players hitting for 14+k Wrecking blows in pvp (which is the average sorcs shields +3k) and the coming Darkflare madness of 22k+ hits in pvp we need a slight adjustment...which is somewhat fair since we're going to be getting dots on our shields and we already have an entire set built to go right past them...

Before the rage machine starts let me say this: sorcs have 1 shield the rest of you don't have access too. and most of you have plenty of other defenses, mitigation techniques, and your *own* form of shields...

But in past metas we got a shield strong enough to repel 1 strong attack, and 2-3 lesser attacks. If we *don't* see an adjustment to our shield values we'll be relegated to our shields taking half of a strong attack, and our pve tanking abilities are being hampered as well by the absolutely *beast mode* hits even the smallest daedra can push out.

This won't hold of sorcs if we don't receive attention like this... instead of one shield most sorcs use now, we'll see alot more shield stacking and resto staves to compensate for this weakness...which would only make fighting sorcs worse (believe me on this plz) in pvp, and more sorc exclusivity in pve because if we're all running resto staves....why do we need a templar?

in other words... not giving a small buff to ward at this point , will make the next patches sorcs adapt...and that adaption won't benefit anyone.

Not reading, over pls buff shield threads. No.

Well arn't you an amazingly understanding individual. So unbiased XD

How about you think of this thread as the *stop nerfing shields and bring them back into historical balance then*? much to long of a title.