Sorcs need a Shield buff!

NativeJoe

MrGigglypants wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

With the recent developments in pvp and pve, I believe us sorcs need a *slight*adjustment in our shields. with bosses hitting for 34k (past the threshold of 99% of sorcs ward), and pvp players hitting for 14+k Wrecking blows in pvp (which is the average sorcs shields +3k) and the coming Darkflare madness of 22k+ hits in pvp we need a slight adjustment...which is somewhat fair since we're going to be getting dots on our shields and we already have an entire set built to go right past them...

Before the rage machine starts let me say this: sorcs have 1 shield the rest of you don't have access too. and most of you have plenty of other defenses, mitigation techniques, and your *own* form of shields...

But in past metas we got a shield strong enough to repel 1 strong attack, and 2-3 lesser attacks. If we *don't* see an adjustment to our shield values we'll be relegated to our shields taking half of a strong attack, and our pve tanking abilities are being hampered as well by the absolutely *beast mode* hits even the smallest daedra can push out.

This won't hold of sorcs if we don't receive attention like this... instead of one shield most sorcs use now, we'll see alot more shield stacking and resto staves to compensate for this weakness...which would only make fighting sorcs worse (believe me on this plz) in pvp, and more sorc exclusivity in pve because if we're all running resto staves....why do we need a templar?

in other words... not giving a small buff to ward at this point , will make the next patches sorcs adapt...and that adaption won't benefit anyone.

Stop doing coke. Clearly you're numbers are way off. Sorc shields are 9k on average and ignore crit so in pvp that's 1.5 surprise attacks with upcoming cp changes it'll be 2. In pve shields are 22k+ nothing needs to be changed if anything sorcs need a nerf defensively and a buff offensively as to not be so dependent on overload. Shield stacking is clearly a broken mechanic advocating that it's not is clearly just for self gain.

Thanks I already have quit and started pepsi a long time ago. Suprise attack hits me for 9.5k ... I dunno what you are running to get it down to 2k but please tell me your secret lol. Besides shields do not get resistances from anything... so you are always taking full damage to shields. Let me put it this way... if ur running with 15k hp +9k shield next patch. imagine this in ur head... 1 javlin for 4k and ur down on the ground. you break free, and darkflare hits you for 22k. now the templar has you in critical health and could literally sneeze on you and you'd be dead. instead they jesus beam ur face off. You can spam shields all you want...but ur going to die in less then 3 seconds.

Let me put it this way... I'm against shield stacking. I want us to rely on just 1. I don't want to have endless battles with sorcs with ward+harness magicka+ healing ward... But if they don't give a slight buff to ward, we will see resto staffs as the Normal equipment for sorcs.

That new normal... has massive implications for the game as a whole. as a sorc myself... I don't want to see that change. so just "MAINTAIN" the same respective strength of shields. I'm not saying Buff them to the sky or anything.

J2JMC

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

wayfarerx

This thread is hilarious, thanks for the laughs on a slow Monday

NativeJoe

J2JMC wrote: »

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

Either your delusional, or wearing heavy armor calling yourself a dps, or have a very wierd niche build where you can apparently take hits from multiple sources for 12k+ and random hits for 18-36k ...

Jeez guys. you'd think I want to give my class god mode. Can ANYONE produce an evidence that sorcs are harder to kill then any other class? ANYONE? Can any of you show me your evidence that we are OP?

here is my actual evidence.
http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

Nightblades kill me the most, I kill them the most out of any other class. we're counter classes so this makes alot of sense.

Show me evidence that sorcs are face rolling all of you with triple shield stacks, and one shotting you before you even have a chance to react.

I'm not pushing for more damage output lol... I'm trying to get a slight buff to ward so sorcs arn't forced to play more defensively... which can/will have far reaching results.

SirDopey

Unsent.Soul wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Dude, stack more shields - last night I did 80K damage in less than 10 seconds to a sorc and never touched his health. This is a L2P issue, sorcs need no more shields.....

And that person wasn't running just 1 ward where they? they where running multiple because WARD was not strong enough to mitigate 1 attack. so they where "adapting".... x.x oddly enough... This is exactly what im trying to say is going to happen in the vast majority of sorcs if things go like this. You *think* your pointing out a issue that disproves my fortelling of the future so you can be part of the mob...but reality, you encountered another one of the sorc converts to this play style x.x

Yeah, but smarty pantz, they're not going to remove the other shields from the game or bar Sorc's from using them are they? Which means, if they give you precious sorcs more powerful shields you'll be able to run around untouchable if you so desire.

Again, L2P. You can't have it all mate, stack more shields at the expense of having ya crystal frags or learn to roll dodge, choice is yours bruh

-Dots applying to shields
-dot dmg increase via CP
-shields critable now
-shield breaker set
-"shield breaker" CP
-50% reduction to shields in pvp
-talked about shield cast time in last eso live

Those all sound like a Dev team thats clueless as how to balance classes... probably because they are balancing pvp and pve at the same time... which is obviously frowned upon

I'd say less a L2P issue and more of a L2B issue. That's learn to balance if you couldn't figure that out... Bruh...

L2RD. That's learn to roll dodge, bruh

Artjuh90

Roflcopter OP go L2P and try another less Overpowered class. then when you did that we will speak again. i don't even use bound armor on my sorc and i still do all content without mutch diffucity. might i suggest going on world bosses with a stamina nightblade every single one without help. that's alot harder then doing it on a sorc destroying them with overload and having a shield to cower behind

clayandaudrey_ESO

NativeJoe wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

Either your delusional, or wearing heavy armor calling yourself a dps, or have a very wierd niche build where you can apparently take hits from multiple sources for 12k+ and random hits for 18-36k ...

Jeez guys. you'd think I want to give my class god mode. Can ANYONE produce an evidence that sorcs are harder to kill then any other class? ANYONE? Can any of you show me your evidence that we are OP?

here is my actual evidence.
http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

Nightblades kill me the most, I kill them the most out of any other class. we're counter classes so this makes alot of sense.

Show me evidence that sorcs are face rolling all of you with triple shield stacks, and one shotting you before you even have a chance to react.

I'm not pushing for more damage output lol... I'm trying to get a slight buff to ward so sorcs arn't forced to play more defensively... which can/will have far reaching results.

I was going to respond to this but honestly any coherent thought I had would get me at least a warning. I'll just leave it at this is ridiculous.

Bfish22090

I agree 100% as I have a high elf sorc on AD, DC and EP

Inarre

Lol best joke thread of the day

NativeJoe

-Dots applying to shields
-dot dmg increase via CP
-shields critable now
-shield breaker set
-"shield breaker" CP
-50% reduction to shields in pvp
-talked about shield cast time in last eso live

As it stands Sorcs here need to speak up. Post the evidence as I have that the Shields arn't completely OP.

A Kill counter screen shot should be enough. IE http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

This is like everyone else crying for nerfs. I don't support any nerfs, I only ask for classes and certain skills to be brought up to par. as it is pets have been un-supported gear wise and damage wise and have gone the direction of the dinosaur. the proposed changes leaves us basically not using ANY skills from the pet tree at all.

We cannot let this come to pass. not just for us as a class but for other classes as well.

When you mess with a skill that is the bread and butter of a class, and produce content that specifically targets it, it has far reaching results. The PTS patch pushes this even further!

Every class has counters to heavy damage. Sorcs just need theirs given a slight boost so they arn't forced to play more defensively by equipping a restoration staff.

I understand non-sorcs hate shields... but if you got rid of shields...do u know what we'd have? less damage output then everyone besides stamina dk's, Less life then everyone else, and we'd be the most gimped class their is.

The war on shields needs to stop, and we need to start realizing the way we "FEEL" about shields may no longer be supported by what is "Actually" happening in reality. And that infact that they could use a little boost, not a new series of nerfs, and a new group role as the strongest single/multi-target healers in the game.

Artjuh90

NativeJoe wrote: »

-Dots applying to shields
-dot dmg increase via CP
-shields critable now
-shield breaker set
-"shield breaker" CP
-50% reduction to shields in pvp
-talked about shield cast time in last eso live

As it stands Sorcs here need to speak up. Post the evidence as I have that the Shields arn't completely OP.

A Kill counter screen shot should be enough. IE http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

This is like everyone else crying for nerfs. I don't support any nerfs, I only ask for classes and certain skills to be brought up to par. as it is pets have been un-supported gear wise and damage wise and have gone the direction of the dinosaur. the proposed changes leaves us basically not using ANY skills from the pet tree at all.

We cannot let this come to pass. not just for us as a class but for other classes as well.

When you mess with a skill that is the bread and butter of a class, and produce content that specifically targets it, it has far reaching results. The PTS patch pushes this even further!

Every class has counters to heavy damage. Sorcs just need theirs given a slight boost so they arn't forced to play more defensively by equipping a restoration staff.

I understand non-sorcs hate shields... but if you got rid of shields...do u know what we'd have? less damage output then everyone besides stamina dk's, Less life then everyone else, and we'd be the most gimped class their is.

The war on shields needs to stop, and we need to start realizing the way we "FEEL" about shields may no longer be supported by what is "Actually" happening in reality. And that infact that they could use a little boost, not a new series of nerfs, and a new group role as the strongest single/multi-target healers in the game.

shields still can't crit.
healing is reduced by 50% which is simmulair to the 50% shield reduction (evens out)
No DoT damage on shields was just a utter joke.
shieldbreaker set is a gimky set which is only good vs one type of player. compare it to cloak and it's nerfs which are way more and you don't suffer DPS reduction or a gimky off set just to kill a single class build
magicka builds already have a CP system working out beter for them. less points need to be invested for more % damage + now stamina is blocked by another 25%.

so please most of you points are completly invalded. hell even wrobel stated that shieldstacking is OP and he doesn't know alot about this game it seems but even he sees this

flguy147ub17_ESO

This thread had me thinking that my DK Wings just don't last long enough, 4 secs isn't long enough,, should be 20 secs like Volatile armor, Come on Zos, please make my Main class really OP. I want to be Emperor like without being an Emperor

dodgehopper_ESO

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

That act of"compensating" will be game changing. and I believe it will be wholy negative for players playing any other class.

Other classes don't have access to shields that scale off max magicka. So they are already limited to using smaller shields that scale off health, or other ways to mitigate damage.
.

One thing I've been saying all along is that it is a shame that a Tank Spec sorcerer ends up being squishier than his High DPS spec Magic build cousins, all because of the way Hardened Ward works. The way shields, mitigation, and tanking in general are being handled need greater consideration that involves more than mucking with one classes shields, battle spirit, etc.

NativeJoe

Artjuh90 wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

-Dots applying to shields
-dot dmg increase via CP
-shields critable now
-shield breaker set
-"shield breaker" CP
-50% reduction to shields in pvp
-talked about shield cast time in last eso live

As it stands Sorcs here need to speak up. Post the evidence as I have that the Shields arn't completely OP.

A Kill counter screen shot should be enough. IE http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

This is like everyone else crying for nerfs. I don't support any nerfs, I only ask for classes and certain skills to be brought up to par. as it is pets have been un-supported gear wise and damage wise and have gone the direction of the dinosaur. the proposed changes leaves us basically not using ANY skills from the pet tree at all.

We cannot let this come to pass. not just for us as a class but for other classes as well.

When you mess with a skill that is the bread and butter of a class, and produce content that specifically targets it, it has far reaching results. The PTS patch pushes this even further!

Every class has counters to heavy damage. Sorcs just need theirs given a slight boost so they arn't forced to play more defensively by equipping a restoration staff.

I understand non-sorcs hate shields... but if you got rid of shields...do u know what we'd have? less damage output then everyone besides stamina dk's, Less life then everyone else, and we'd be the most gimped class their is.

The war on shields needs to stop, and we need to start realizing the way we "FEEL" about shields may no longer be supported by what is "Actually" happening in reality. And that infact that they could use a little boost, not a new series of nerfs, and a new group role as the strongest single/multi-target healers in the game.

shields still can't crit.
healing is reduced by 50% which is simmulair to the 50% shield reduction (evens out)
No DoT damage on shields was just a utter joke.
shieldbreaker set is a gimky set which is only good vs one type of player. compare it to cloak and it's nerfs which are way more and you don't suffer DPS reduction or a gimky off set just to kill a single class build
magicka builds already have a CP system working out beter for them. less points need to be invested for more % damage + now stamina is blocked by another 25%.

so please most of you points are completly invalded. hell even wrobel stated that shieldstacking is OP and he doesn't know alot about this game it seems but even he sees this

I'm not here advocating shield stacking <.<... I'm actually here trying to prevent that very thing from becoming the normal. Which it isn't the normal currently. I've been out there in azura star now for a year, and I see it on maybe 1-200 sorcs, and I think the changes coming will actually push it to a ratio more like 1/5 sorcs shield stacking if not more. And the mayhem doesn't stop there, I believe it will effect the group roles of all the classes, and as ironic as it may sound. a series of nerfs to sorc shields may indeed lead to a "elder staves online" sort of game...because of the previous points i've highlighted earlier in this thread.


This is what im running. I'm not out here for purly myself. I'm actually against shield stacking by and large...except in the case of sorc tanks. http://imgur.com/SOYujNz http://i.imgur.com/Umb5LI0.png http://i.imgur.com/EMMDvf8.png http://i.imgur.com/S2tFbq1.png

wrathofrraath

Dang and I always thought my DK's 4k shield was OP

dodgehopper_ESO

Wollust wrote: »

Ok, as you don't seem to get my "Nope", let me name you a few arguments against your proposed buff.

1. In PvP most sorcs run Hardened, Harness and Healing ward. Yes, everyone has access to 2 of 3 shields, but for a sorc they are simply better as they have usually a lot of points into bastion. You are saying if sorcs don't get a buff to shields, more will use multiple shields. That's where you are wrong, a good sorc already uses all three shields. This prediction of yours can't be in any way accurate therefore. Fighting against sorcs is already bad as a magcharacter, it would get even worse with your proposed change.
2. You say you need a stronger shield because wrecking blow hits hard. Well, WB is the hardest hitting spammable (melee) skill. If this skill is not capable of going through a shield with 2 hits, what else? But you are only arguing with the strongest single target spam skill in the game, while you don't even think about any other skill that has a lower base damage.
3. You mention dots being able to hit your shield but you don't mention the fact that shields are not critable and they also get the defensive bonus from the CP system. Shields still provide a massive defensive mechanic.
4. Your shields are as spammable as every other skill in the game and the only hard counter is a cheesy set called shieldbreaker, which not even that many people have any use for.
5. Why do you think you should be able to cast your shield and simply facetank the next few hits? With one cast? As the shield is spammable, it's already hard enough to burst a sorc down. No need to buff it even more at this point.
6. In PvE, Hardened alone is around 22-25k shield. With this amount of shield, you can tank almost every vet dungeon. No idea why you would need any more shield? And if you are a dps in a group, you are doing something wrong if you have to rely on your shield instead of your healer.

Not to mention if Shields could be critted this would actually help with skills like Crit Surge, a Sorcerer ability. Imagine if you have crit surge running and spiked someone with a crystal frag crit? If anything I feel like Conjured Ward should be based upon health like everyone else, but have a magic cost. That still favors people with high regeneration (a staple of tank builds) and means the tank will tend to be more durable than his dps magic cousin. This also means that a Stam spec sorc might actually have an excuse to slot his shield, and while this isn't a direct complaint by Stamina Sorcerers, I do know they would like an excuse to slot more of their skills on their bar.

J2JMC

NativeJoe wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

Either your delusional, or wearing heavy armor calling yourself a dps, or have a very wierd niche build where you can apparently take hits from multiple sources for 12k+ and random hits for 18-36k ...

Jeez guys. you'd think I want to give my class god mode. Can ANYONE produce an evidence that sorcs are harder to kill then any other class? ANYONE? Can any of you show me your evidence that we are OP?

here is my actual evidence.
http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

Nightblades kill me the most, I kill them the most out of any other class. we're counter classes so this makes alot of sense.

Show me evidence that sorcs are face rolling all of you with triple shield stacks, and one shotting you before you even have a chance to react.

I'm not pushing for more damage output lol... I'm trying to get a slight buff to ward so sorcs arn't forced to play more defensively... which can/will have far reaching results.

I'll rephrase what I wrote. You shouldn't be getting hit by anything outside of trials that is one-shotting you. If you are, your tank is not doing their job, or you have no health/can't stand outside of red circles.

Artjuh90

the "health' bonus of hardend ward is just WAY to high with a 30 seconds upkeep which is way longer then any shield. thats the main problem and i works so damn well with healing ward that it makes a sorc nearly immortal. just look howmany dungeons are being done as 4 sorc. is this really what we want in a game? just roll a magicka sorc and you can do any content but if you are a NB or templar you get left out? i have seen people talk about SS not being a problem in PvE but it kinda is aswell. ZOS has to make content still be able to complete for the other builds/classes but can't make it to easy because you see the elitist bashing ZOS for it being to easy. Sorc best healer dps and tank with full magicka investment is wrong. plain wrong you WANT class diversity. ZOS created the trinity que for groupfinder so they do like the trinity playstyle which they are completly murdering as we continue to get patches and they "balance" things. ye their idea of balance is as good as it would be for the world with Donald Trump as president of the USA

NativeJoe

Artjuh90 wrote: »

the "health' bonus of hardend ward is just WAY to high with a 30 seconds upkeep which is way longer then any shield. thats the main problem and i works so damn well with healing ward that it makes a sorc nearly immortal. just look howmany dungeons are being done as 4 sorc. is this really what we want in a game? just roll a magicka sorc and you can do any content but if you are a NB or templar you get left out? i have seen people talk about SS not being a problem in PvE but it kinda is aswell. ZOS has to make content still be able to complete for the other builds/classes but can't make it to easy because you see the elitist bashing ZOS for it being to easy. Sorc best healer dps and tank with full magicka investment is wrong. plain wrong you WANT class diversity. ZOS created the trinity que for groupfinder so they do like the trinity playstyle which they are completly murdering as we continue to get patches and they "balance" things. ye their idea of balance is as good as it would be for the world with Donald Trump as president of the USA

I agree, and I don't want this for my class either. But we need the ability to remain comfortably in our own skill sets, and not be forced into a more defensive play style to accomplish this. I have a DK tank, Templar healer, Night blade dps, and me as a sorcerer in my core dungeon group. Literally all 4 classes. but with the class changes coming... The templar and nightblade are becoming the weak links here. 2 more sorcs in thier positions would be far more effective if those sorcs are slotting resto staves. x.x

sneakymitchell

Yeah so that shields could be more and we can stack more shields and then more shields in our bar. Oh this makes my head hurt.

Valrien

Btw, if you're going to say "get more resistances", I just want to say that shields put all resistances (and weaknesses in the terms of vamps/WWs) at 0. You have 0 armor, you have 0 spell resist, 0 elemental resist, you don't take 25% more damage from poison or fire.

No one ever seems to mention this in an argument regarding shields:


Nor the fact that shields got nerfed by about 30% in IC. Nope, just a big number (that only applies to about half of the population mind you, the other half one has to tear through half of it) and crit resistance. How are you supposed to critical hit a ward anyways, kick it in the nuts?

sneakymitchell

Valrien wrote: »

Btw, if you're going to say "get more resistances", I just want to say that shields put all resistances (and weaknesses in the terms of vamps/WWs) at 0. You have 0 armor, you have 0 spell resist, 0 elemental resist, you don't take 25% more damage from poison or fire.

No one ever seems to mention this in an argument regarding shields:


Nor the fact that shields got nerfed by about 30% in IC. Nope, just a big number (that only applies to about half of the population mind you, the other half one has to tear through half of it) and crit resistance. How are you supposed to critical hit a ward anyways, kick it in the nuts?

DEEZ NUTS!!!!!

WillhelmBlack

Where do we find these people?

yodased

I dont want shield stacking! I want only to have one shield. No resto dual wield destro with sorc shield spiderman thread!!!

Avonna

so just use one shield?

dont equip resto staff as off bar and only use your class skill .....and maybe get some champ points to help.

Molag_Crow

NativeJoe

J2JMC wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

If you need to rely on shields in PVE content something is wrong with your group. There is no mechanic outside of trials that should be one-shotting you as a DPS.

Either your delusional, or wearing heavy armor calling yourself a dps, or have a very wierd niche build where you can apparently take hits from multiple sources for 12k+ and random hits for 18-36k ...

Jeez guys. you'd think I want to give my class god mode. Can ANYONE produce an evidence that sorcs are harder to kill then any other class? ANYONE? Can any of you show me your evidence that we are OP?

here is my actual evidence.
http://i.imgur.com/WBfKq2U.png

Nightblades kill me the most, I kill them the most out of any other class. we're counter classes so this makes alot of sense.

Show me evidence that sorcs are face rolling all of you with triple shield stacks, and one shotting you before you even have a chance to react.

I'm not pushing for more damage output lol... I'm trying to get a slight buff to ward so sorcs arn't forced to play more defensively... which can/will have far reaching results.

I'll rephrase what I wrote. You shouldn't be getting hit by anything outside of trials that is one-shotting you. If you are, your tank is not doing their job, or you have no health/can't stand outside of red circles.

hahahahahaha...tank doing their job *wipes tear away* .... Anyway... Yeah in the perfect world where tanks didn't become vamps, stand in red, and yell at the healer till she rage quits because he couldn't be bothered to move or block. that would be the case... but reality is alot different then what we can imagine. Shields shouldn't be needed...but they are. once again... the people here in the forums typically are far more competent then the average player and they don't represent the whole in anyway shape or form. The average player puts 10 cp into everything, has 100 bag space, does sub 10k dps, gets pissed off when you say the item requires 8 tempers to improve it further, and thinks a kuta is some type of potatoe chip.

Seriously... step outside the elite bubble....and Try running with pugs "as one of them", pretend to know nothing, and don't carry them through the dungeon. seriously. go try.

tennant94

I agree! My 12k hardened ward should be at least 15k. I can only take 2/3 hits before I need to reapply my shield, it's not fair. My crystal frags only hit for 14k too so buff them while you're at it Zos!

NativeJoe

Valrien wrote: »

Btw, if you're going to say "get more resistances", I just want to say that shields put all resistances (and weaknesses in the terms of vamps/WWs) at 0. You have 0 armor, you have 0 spell resist, 0 elemental resist, you don't take 25% more damage from poison or fire.

No one ever seems to mention this in an argument regarding shields:


Nor the fact that shields got nerfed by about 30% in IC. Nope, just a big number (that only applies to about half of the population mind you, the other half one has to tear through half of it) and crit resistance. How are you supposed to critical hit a ward anyways, kick it in the nuts?

Thanks for contributing. More Sorcs need to get on here and defend our position. Spread the word or something. Don't let the nerf herders rule the game. We've already recieved enough nerfs, and there is no HARD evidence displayed that sorcs are in anyway over powered. someone show me something where their primary death is by sorc.

People are not being slain by the dozen by sorcs. simply put we've been nerfed and targeted so much it is now time to address a little issue. The shield from patch to patch has gotten progressivly weaker and weaker. and now it it is below the strength of many strong burst attacks. and come pts, it will below the threshold of holding off alot more attacks. Dark flare for instance is going to go through the shield and take half our life. This is unprecedented. Even when we had 100% damage in pvp, a full shield could handle a full over powered snipe from stealth. we've always had the ability to go 1 attack to 1 ward. this is being broken for the first time. and they're doing more then just breaking that... alot more.

SinKissed

I think having a 12k shield in PVP and a 24k shield in PVE is plenty.

In PVP at endgame with NO points in health and all in magicka I still have 25k health (plus the 12k from hardened ward).

Pair that with lightning form and power surge that heals you every time you crit and you shouldn't have a problem. I guess you can even go destro/resto to make it even easier with healing ward if that's not enough for you.