We NEED a magicka morph of Vigor

DeanTheCat · February 2016

Khajiit thinks that you can have Magicka Vigor, if you would give Khajiit a skill that:

- Grants Major Savagery when slotted
- Gives 2% Maximum Health when slotted
- Gives 2% Maximum Stamina when slotted
- On activation, dispells and disables casting of shields in a 6m AoE for 5 seconds. Also grants empower.

Morph 1:
- Increases Maximum Stamina by 8% when slotted

Morph 2:
- Increases Radius of Shield Disable to 12m
- Take 56% less damage from Shielded attackers.

If you have Magicka Vigor, Khajiit thinks that you don't need to be so reliant on shields yes?

PlagueMonk · February 2016

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

kaithuzar · February 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

Flawless dawnbreaker - increase weapon damage
and if that's really not enough...
expert/camo hunter - Major Savegery
circle of protection - 8% damage reduction for the group
trap beast - 12% weapon crit

On the reverse,
entropy - horrible heal & empower is negated by spell pots
magelight - the only good ability that you don't want to slot on both bars but isn't great unless you do
spell sym - not used anymore; #useless
fire rune - what??? very niche scenario usage

pretty sure no one is going to be heavily using any of those mage guild abilities let alone have them on their bar; outside of maybe magelight next patch.

Yorubuke · February 2016

PlagueMonk wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

Well to be honest a huge majority of PvP players r Vamp or WW. so most of those effects would work on alot of the players. Not saying i agree with what the other guys said tho. Cause any1 who actually looks at half the moves in Fighters guild would realize most go off Magic Damage and not Physical.

Speely · February 2016

The unfortunate result of the "play as you want" mantra is that people take this to mean that every class should be equally good at everything in a quantifiably-accurate way, right down to tooltips and results parsing. What these players sometimes fail to realize is that the freedom to build as you like need not automatically impart like viability. If viability is spread equally over a range of classes in such a way that the specific approach to said viability takes the exact same form in every case, there is NO diversity anymore, and "play as you want" becomes "play the only way there is."

ZOS has vacillated on their approach to this, and this vaccilation isn't really helping anyone. On one hand, Wroble has stated that he wants to preserve class identity. On the other, multiple class skills have been adjusted to homogenize them more.

Here's where it gets real messy. As ZOS homogenizes more, players generally react by saying "ok, this is more of a competitive PvP or "anyone can anything" PvE experience. Cool. We will play it like that. But at the same time they are clinging on to a half-assed semblance of class identity that reserves JUST enough difference to *** off the above contigent but not enough to give classes real defined roles that take a stand for themselves. Everyone loses here.

It should be stated that even when reserving certain important class dynamics for certain classes alone, it's still very possible to provide a wide range of "play as you want" possibilities. There will just be advantages to certain actions when performed by certain classes. A healer who isn't a Templar could still enjoy less traditional benefits when playing as their class in a healing role as long as classes have real and relevant uniqueness apart from "omg I just heal and nothing else," for example.

As it stands, everyone is so close to being the same that everyone plays the same and complains because they really AREN'T the same. Either do away with class-based differences and let anyone pick any 3 class skill lines or deepen the differences between class skills and work on balance through imbalance, and as a result increase class interdependency.

You can't claim one approach and then embrace the other.

Half-assing it really appeases fans of neither approach. Vigor as a Magicka skill is ridiculous to me for this reason, but mainly because it should have never been a Stamina skill in the first place. Providing anemic utility to Stam builds early on and not providing ample effectiveness of a wider range of play styles led to a sloppy fix of including Stamina abilities that were basically Magicka analogues. A real shame since the actual design model of ESO allows for so much more of a dynamic approach. Hopefully they will choose a side one day soon and run with it.

PhatGrimReaper · February 2016

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

Flawless dawnbreaker - increase weapon damage
and if that's really not enough...
expert/camo hunter - Major Savegery
circle of protection - 8% damage reduction for the group
trap beast - 12% weapon crit

On the reverse,
entropy - horrible heal & empower is negated by spell pots
magelight - the only good ability that you don't want to slot on both bars but isn't great unless you do
spell sym - not used anymore; #useless
fire rune - what??? very niche scenario usage

pretty sure no one is going to be heavily using any of those mage guild abilities let alone have them on their bar; outside of maybe magelight next patch.

The empower is from the passives, not from entropy..... Spell Pots replace Major Sorcery from Entropy

D0ntevenL1ft · February 2016

PhatGrimReaper wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

Flawless dawnbreaker - increase weapon damage
and if that's really not enough...
expert/camo hunter - Major Savegery
circle of protection - 8% damage reduction for the group
trap beast - 12% weapon crit

On the reverse,
entropy - horrible heal & empower is negated by spell pots
magelight - the only good ability that you don't want to slot on both bars but isn't great unless you do
spell sym - not used anymore; #useless
fire rune - what??? very niche scenario usage

pretty sure no one is going to be heavily using any of those mage guild abilities let alone have them on their bar; outside of maybe magelight next patch.

The empower is from the passives, not from entropy..... Spell Pots replace Major Sorcery from Entropy

Was waiting for someone to correct him lol. Also, I use entropy for a nice proc'd frag

kaithuzar · February 2016

yea my bad on the confusion, thanks for the correction

Xantaria · February 2016

kaithuzar wrote: »

We NEED a magicka morph of Vigor because..

Since the beginning of the game, stamina builds have been QQing that they don't have access to a reliable self-heal without slotting a 2H for rally. This is why Vigor was first introduced.

Similarly, many magicka builds DON'T want to be forced to slot a resto staff to use the highly unreliable (but sometimes OP when it works) healing ward.

Recently, This problem has been exacerbated by shield breaker as well as the new CP which increases damage to shields. When a nightblade or DK is forced to rely on the resto bubble, the bubble often chooses to go onto a random teammate. If the bubble actually applies to the caster, the shield is generally small (~5k) and dissipates rapidly when under pressure.

Furthermore, when an enemy is using shield breaker or has points slotted into CP which increases damage against shields, this method of healing is often more trouble than its worth.

Unfortunately, the only remaining options are to use GDB or Sap (no other option for sorcs), which are doubly nerfed because the damage is reduced by 50% and the heals are reduced by 50%, making GDB very ineffective. If a magicka morph of vigor were available, the recent (and semi OP) buffs to magicka DK healing would have been unnecessary

There really shouldn't be a problem with changing the unused morph of vigor to a magicka based heal, since very few stamina builds use that morph anyway.

The advantage of stamina builds are extremely high damage, roll dodging, and more armor. The advantage of magicka builds has been (until the recent buffs to major mending given to stamina DK's and Templars, as well as crit surge for stamina sorcs) their ability to heal themselves. Due to the recent changes, this is no longer the case as stamina builds are able to both deal high damage, roll dodge any incoming damage, and heal themselves for 5k+ ticks of vigor in PvP.

If the dev's are truly interested in balancing this game, this option is the most logical solution to the problem.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KaiSchober @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_EricWrobel @ZOS_Wrobel

****************************************UPDATED***********************************

In order to more fully elaborate why giving magicka users a magicka based morph of vigor is NOT a bad idea...

Skills that have been given stamina morphs:
Surprise attack
Ambush
Killer's Blade
Power Extraction
Relentless Focus

Boundless Storm
Crit Surge
Dark Exchange

Unstable Flame
Engulfing Flames
Inferno
Dragon Leap

Biting Jabs
Purifying Light
Blinding Javelin
Repentence

Some people continue to QQ that many ultimates do not do physical damage, but ZOS changed the game a long time ago so that these ultimates scale off of max stat, so that either class can use them effectively.
Sure, they aren’t affected by the physical damage CP, but stamina builds often have 1,000 more weapon damage than magicka classes, which balances out the damage of the ultimate anyway.

Why do you people have such a problem with either making vigor scale off of max stat, or giving a magicka morph of vigor?

FYI..
This post was a collaboration with primary input from "Nurin" whom has 7 v16's, & has completed Veteran Maelstrom Arena on stamina & magicka versions of each class.

nonono don't you dare destroy my vigor group healing build! Don't touch the 15 meter range morph :')

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Why do so many people have this mentality that everyone single build should have access to every single skill. What happen to diveraity. You want to run mag build, then run rest with a while line ofbheals. You want to run stam, then run 2h and vigor. Those are the choices deal with it.

But stam is not bound to a particular weapon for heals cause of vigor. True, but rest also offers more options for healing. Plus, every single class has heals on mag builds to. Temp is obvious. Nb has strife and sap. Sorc has crit heals and shield. Dk has gdb. Yes Dk ability needs to be reworked, but that is no reason to give vigor to mag.

Not all builds can access same skill. You do this and where does it stop? Then you need a stam det. Then you need a stam putge. Mag caltrops. Mag rapids. No. You want vigor run stam build. You want purge run mag build. Stop trying to give everything to everyone. That is not a fun game.

DurzoBlint13 · February 2016

why? Is every other heal in the game not good enough? I hope this was a troll post

Kalebron · February 2016

A morph of vigor to magicka would be welcomed.

Kalebron · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Why do so many people have this mentality that everyone single build should have access to every single skill. What happen to diveraity. You want to run mag build, then run rest with a while line ofbheals. You want to run stam, then run 2h and vigor. Those are the choices deal with it.

But stam is not bound to a particular weapon for heals cause of vigor. True, but rest also offers more options for healing. Plus, every single class has heals on mag builds to. Temp is obvious. Nb has strife and sap. Sorc has crit heals and shield. Dk has gdb. Yes Dk ability needs to be reworked, but that is no reason to give vigor to mag.

Not all builds can access same skill. You do this and where does it stop? Then you need a stam det. Then you need a stam putge. Mag caltrops. Mag rapids. No. You want vigor run stam build. You want purge run mag build. Stop trying to give everything to everyone. That is not a fun game.

Personally I think all skills should be morphable to magicka or stamina depending on what you use most of whether it be bows, staves, one-handed, or two-handed items. I would love to use the skill. A hybrid build would be nice, but it is not feasible at this time.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2016

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

The "Fighters" Guild ultimate does better damage for mages thanks to the increased magic damage and magic pen. Evil Hunter also does much better damage on a Mage, trap is trash, circle is crazy expensive for the nothing it does and the passives are useful to all even if you don't use the skill line unlike the Mage's Guild where the passives only work with Mage Guild powers.

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

Mages can use the ultimate and better power their better then stamina builds the passive work for all without guild powers unlocked unlike the mages guild.

NVNiko wrote: »

Actually Elder Scrolls lore should be the basis of any balancing discussion. So according to Elder Scrolls Lore Stamina users shouldn't even have a heal available to them:)

Stamina builds can also one shot just about anyone from stealth you can have all my heals if I get heavy attacks that hit for three times your health

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

Make Rally have spammable burst healing like Breath of life, and you can have your magicka vigor.

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

Also we need a stamina version of hardened and Healing Ward.

Strider_Roshin · February 2016

While you're at it, how about a stamina version of proxy det.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

I think a solution to the problem that has been kind of alluded to in the thread is to make hybrid builds viable again. You make hydr8d builds possible again and stuff like vigor can remain stamina, but still usable by people who focus more into mag. It will be interesting to see if people try a hybrid build with Kena and alchemist.

Magdalina · February 2016

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

it is a valid point because there are not class stamina heals, however, every class has a mag heal of some sort that do not require a specific weapon. so vigor is the only stam heal that does not require a weapon.

So, a mag build not only has a whole weapon skill line for heals, but also some form of class heal. stam builds have rally and vigor.

MrGigglypants · February 2016

Vigor heals 2k ticks at most in in pvp lol

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

Point being is why should stamina users get nerfed again just cause they got 1 good stamina abse healing skill that doesn't need a weapon apposed too magicka user who not only have a entire weapon tree for healing but plenty of class and other skill base healing.

This is what this thread really is another nerf stamina. Plus again vigor is a HOT a heal over time effect the healing takes 5 seconds to do it doesn't burst heal like healing ward or BoL or any of those other things and just like the other HOTs and DOTs you need to stack them to make them effective.

So please enough about vigor and nerfing stamina users ok ? U9 is making the game "Elder Sticks Online" again stamina doesn't need any more hate.

Magdalina · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

it is a valid point because there are not class stamina heals, however, every class has a mag heal of some sort that do not require a specific weapon. so vigor is the only stam heal that does not require a weapon.

So, a mag build not only has a whole weapon skill line for heals, but also some form of class heal. stam builds have rally and vigor.

Things seem to be changing with TG but if we're talking about now sorc "mag heal of some sort" has a cast time(!) and heals about 1k health iirc. The other "mag heals of some sort" is Surge which is slightly more viable but not so much in PvP, and absolutely not in aoe situations. There's also that passive restoring 8% of your max health when hitting an enemy with Dark Magic, but 8% of an average mag sorc health is like 1k at best in PvP(does that healing also get halved by Battle Spirit? That'd make it more like 500) and we don't even have spammable dark magic skills.

Templars have it (heals wise) good, DKs have GDB(which needs a buff in PvP lands), NBs have some HoTs. Main reason why I want(ed) a magicka vigor is because I main a sorc and I would love to be able to slot a heal on my dps bar but I can't. As a templar I can dps and slot BoL on that bar, as an NB I'll slot those HoTs, as a DK I'll slot shields(also not heals but at least something), as a sorc I'll pray weapon swap works or simply not heal.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

Point being is why should stamina users get nerfed again just cause they got 1 good stamina abse healing skill that doesn't need a weapon apposed too magicka user who not only have a entire weapon tree for healing but plenty of class and other skill base healing.

This is what this thread really is another nerf stamina. Plus again vigor is a HOT a heal over time effect the healing takes 5 seconds to do it doesn't burst heal like healing ward or BoL or any of those other things and just like the other HOTs and DOTs you need to stack them to make them effective.

So please enough about vigor and nerfing stamina users ok ? U9 is making the game "Elder Sticks Online" again stamina doesn't need any more hate.

Why is that a nerf? I may be wrong because I don't run stamina builds but don't people usually use 1 Vigor morph? How'd it be a nerf to stamina builds if the *other* morph was magicka based?(Or am I wrong and is the other morph good as well?) I was under a very strong impression OP has no intention of nerfing stamina but simply adding more versatility to magicka...Vigor is the only non-class non-weapon heal in the game so of course he/she brought that up.

Tl;dr: does stamina need love? Yes it does. Does magicka need more not-resto-staff-based healing options? Yes it does, for some classes at least. And it seems they're addressing #2 with TG at least partially so Vigor can be left in piece, chill people

I do agree they should also address #1 but guess they have their hands full at the moment.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

it is a valid point because there are not class stamina heals, however, every class has a mag heal of some sort that do not require a specific weapon. so vigor is the only stam heal that does not require a weapon.

So, a mag build not only has a whole weapon skill line for heals, but also some form of class heal. stam builds have rally and vigor.

Things seem to be changing with TG but if we're talking about now sorc "mag heal of some sort" has a cast time(!) and heals about 1k health iirc. The other "mag heals of some sort" is Surge which is slightly more viable but not so much in PvP, and absolutely not in aoe situations. There's also that passive restoring 8% of your max health when hitting an enemy with Dark Magic, but 8% of an average mag sorc health is like 1k at best in PvP(does that healing also get halved by Battle Spirit? That'd make it more like 500) and we don't even have spammable dark magic skills.

Templars have it (heals wise) good, DKs have GDB(which needs a buff in PvP lands), NBs have some HoTs. Main reason why I want(ed) a magicka vigor is because I main a sorc and I would love to be able to slot a heal on my dps bar but I can't. As a templar I can dps and slot BoL on that bar, as an NB I'll slot those HoTs, as a DK I'll slot shields(also not heals but at least something), as a sorc I'll pray weapon swap works or simply not heal.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

Point being is why should stamina users get nerfed again just cause they got 1 good stamina abse healing skill that doesn't need a weapon apposed too magicka user who not only have a entire weapon tree for healing but plenty of class and other skill base healing.

This is what this thread really is another nerf stamina. Plus again vigor is a HOT a heal over time effect the healing takes 5 seconds to do it doesn't burst heal like healing ward or BoL or any of those other things and just like the other HOTs and DOTs you need to stack them to make them effective.

So please enough about vigor and nerfing stamina users ok ? U9 is making the game "Elder Sticks Online" again stamina doesn't need any more hate.

Why is that a nerf? I may be wrong because I don't run stamina builds but don't people usually use 1 Vigor morph? How'd it be a nerf to stamina builds if the *other* morph was magicka based?(Or am I wrong and is the other morph good as well?) I was under a very strong impression OP has no intention of nerfing stamina but simply adding more versatility to magicka...Vigor is the only non-class non-weapon heal in the game so of course he/she brought that up.

Tl;dr: does stamina need love? Yes it does. Does magicka need more not-resto-staff-based healing options? Yes it does, for some classes at least. And it seems they're addressing #2 with TG at least partially so Vigor can be left in piece, chill people I do agree they should also address #1 but guess they have their hands full at the moment.

lets see sorc have dark exchange, blood magic passive, and surge. lets also not forget about a whole weapon skill line. ALso, lets not forget the fact that sorcs have best shields in game. Tell you what i will trade you shields for vigor. as a sorc you have the least to complain about. yes lets give a mag sorc sheild stacking/spamming while giving them a solid HOT all without having to slot a weapon. yes lets make the strongest build in this next patch even stronger.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2016

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

***Jeapordy Music***

What is the Fighter's Guild?

kaithuzar wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

What a joke. All magicka users have access to Resto staff while being a stamina user it's really not an option (yes I could pick one up but my measly 13k ain't gonna do anyone any good.

PLUS.....they have an ENTIRE magicka line just for them (Mages Guild anyone?) When Stamina users get a guild with nothing but generally useful stamina powers, THEN we will talk about you getting a heal)

What do you think Fighters Guild is for if not stamina users?

You people just kill me. Have you even READ the Fighters Guild abilities? Yes there are a couple general damage abilities but the guild is FOCUSED on Undead and Daedra. That's all I read over an over in each ability, "Deals more damage plus undead and Daedra are knocked down", "Allies are granted an additional 4% damage reduction against Daedra and undead", "Increases Weapon and Spell Damage by 3% when attacking Daedra and undead". So yes, woohoo we can snuff out those PvE undead and Daedra (and Vamps and WW PvP) well.

Conversely nearly all of the Mage's guild skills are used extensively except for maybe Fire Rune.

I would prefer having abilities that were more general and not so focused on a few select mob/player groups.

And sorry I wasn't specific enough in my original post. Let me edit that for you.

Flawless dawnbreaker - increase weapon damage
and if that's really not enough...
expert/camo hunter - Major Savegery
circle of protection - 8% damage reduction for the group
trap beast - 12% weapon crit

On the reverse,
entropy - horrible heal & empower is negated by spell pots
magelight - the only good ability that you don't want to slot on both bars but isn't great unless you do
spell sym - not used anymore; #useless
fire rune - what??? very niche scenario usage

pretty sure no one is going to be heavily using any of those mage guild abilities let alone have them on their bar; outside of maybe magelight next patch.

Flawless sucks vs non vamps Soul Tether, Dragon Leap, Overload and even Sweep does more damage. The 8% weapon damage increase is overshadowed by the the more powerful ultimate damage.

Evil hunter is just as good and for some stronger on their mages so point...

Circle of protection is pure trash cost way to much for the short timer and its stationary. Great if you are PvE face tanking. PvP useless when was the last time you seen it anywhere in PvP???

You did not just being up Breast Trap who uses it after it was fixed no one that's who. The damage is weak if they are not a vamp or in Wolf form.
Contrary to forum posts not everyone in PVP is a vamp many blood suckers got cured after the two shot anti vamp builds were everywhere.

Entropy sucks so much all Sorcerers, Dragon Knight and Nightblades use it in protest.

Mage Light next patch enough said.

Spell sym Fair point

Yea use needs a hard CC they are so useless in PvP

itscompton · February 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

The stamina morph heals most magika players by 50% anyway. My feeble sorc has like 14k health and vigor will heal it for like 6.5k. What more do you really want? BoL barely heals for this sometimes lol. QQ over not being able to spam it more. If you need to constantly heal just face it. The other dude is better than you.

Or you're a Templar who has to run Light armor for damage but gets no type of damage mitigation skills worth slotting.

Forestd16b14_ESO · February 2016

Magdalina wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

it is a valid point because there are not class stamina heals, however, every class has a mag heal of some sort that do not require a specific weapon. so vigor is the only stam heal that does not require a weapon.

So, a mag build not only has a whole weapon skill line for heals, but also some form of class heal. stam builds have rally and vigor.

Things seem to be changing with TG but if we're talking about now sorc "mag heal of some sort" has a cast time(!) and heals about 1k health iirc. The other "mag heals of some sort" is Surge which is slightly more viable but not so much in PvP, and absolutely not in aoe situations. There's also that passive restoring 8% of your max health when hitting an enemy with Dark Magic, but 8% of an average mag sorc health is like 1k at best in PvP(does that healing also get halved by Battle Spirit? That'd make it more like 500) and we don't even have spammable dark magic skills.

Templars have it (heals wise) good, DKs have GDB(which needs a buff in PvP lands), NBs have some HoTs. Main reason why I want(ed) a magicka vigor is because I main a sorc and I would love to be able to slot a heal on my dps bar but I can't. As a templar I can dps and slot BoL on that bar, as an NB I'll slot those HoTs, as a DK I'll slot shields(also not heals but at least something), as a sorc I'll pray weapon swap works or simply not heal.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Wow, why is everyone jumping OP's throat about "magicka steel tornado" and stuff?._.
He/she makes a perfectly valid point. Although so do some other people here but "you have resto staff heals and we only have 2h one" is a...flawed argument, I mean you're saying you don't want to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal as a stamina build but it is perfectly fine for a magicka build to have to rely on a specific weapon to heal?

The great thing about Vigor is it is NOT a weapon heal and can be used with any weapon. Thing is this is what some (magicka) builds still lack(*cough* sorc *cough*). It seems they're trying to change it next update though so maybe we won't need a magicka Vigor anymore

Oh and inbefore the "sorc class heals" - no, sorc have no reliable class heals. Yes, sorcs do have great shields. No, shields=/=heals.

Point being is why should stamina users get nerfed again just cause they got 1 good stamina abse healing skill that doesn't need a weapon apposed too magicka user who not only have a entire weapon tree for healing but plenty of class and other skill base healing.

This is what this thread really is another nerf stamina. Plus again vigor is a HOT a heal over time effect the healing takes 5 seconds to do it doesn't burst heal like healing ward or BoL or any of those other things and just like the other HOTs and DOTs you need to stack them to make them effective.

So please enough about vigor and nerfing stamina users ok ? U9 is making the game "Elder Sticks Online" again stamina doesn't need any more hate.

Why is that a nerf? I may be wrong because I don't run stamina builds but don't people usually use 1 Vigor morph? How'd it be a nerf to stamina builds if the *other* morph was magicka based?(Or am I wrong and is the other morph good as well?) I was under a very strong impression OP has no intention of nerfing stamina but simply adding more versatility to magicka...Vigor is the only non-class non-weapon heal in the game so of course he/she brought that up.

Tl;dr: does stamina need love? Yes it does. Does magicka need more not-resto-staff-based healing options? Yes it does, for some classes at least. And it seems they're addressing #2 with TG at least partially so Vigor can be left in piece, chill people I do agree they should also address #1 but guess they have their hands full at the moment.

Their is already plenty of non-weapon magical base healing int the game and again Vigor is a HOT it does not heal the caster instantly and like other HOTs needs to be stacked to heal through burst damage.

These QQ threads about vigor need to stop cause regeneration from the restoration staff skill line is exactly like it and then some oh wait you don't wanna slot a restoration staff to use it well PvE players suck it up and PvP to get vigor so why can't you magic user suck it up and just slot a restoration staff ? What one bar of DPS isn't enough you really need 2 bars dedicated to DPS ?

Sharakor · February 2016

would be perfect for my magicka nb, as far as I know the only reliable heal for many magicka builds (especially nbs) is healing ward

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

The stamina morph heals most magika players by 50% anyway. My feeble sorc has like 14k health and vigor will heal it for like 6.5k. What more do you really want? BoL barely heals for this sometimes lol. QQ over not being able to spam it more. If you need to constantly heal just face it. The other dude is better than you.

I think you problem starts at having only 14k health if your shield is down for just 2 seconds it's game over when you have 25k health PvP standard now and days for non cannons vigor heals a good bit.

Every heal is powerful when you have 14k health.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · February 2016

Vâo wrote: »

No, we need magicka morph for steel tornado.

No, you need an unnerfed Impulse when stamina was buffed many of the magic nerfs should have gone out as we were on a level field just with different play styles.