MagiSorc was significantly nerfed in TG

Xeven · February 2016

Nerfs:

1) We can't double reflect anymore. Who procs the frags? Who relies on reflectable DPS most? Sorc nerf.

2) Our speed buff was reduced 10% and we can't sprint to make up the difference, especially now that drinks don't work while sprinting. Magicka DK and Templar who have no native magicka based buff are relatively faster. Magicka NB stacks it's own speed buff with cloak and concealed weapon. All Stamina is blazing fast either way, they dont even care. Sorc nerf.

3) 25% damage vs shields CP star. Sorcs are the only class utterly dependent on a damage shield. Sorc nerf.

4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets. Indirect Sorc nerf.

5) All of our toggles are still toggles. All of your toggles are not still toggles. Indirect Sorc nerf.

6) Every other class has received relevant buffs/bug fixes, and we continue to see them with each PTS update. This makes stam and magicka Sorc relatively weaker. Indirect Sorc nerf.

7) One of the 2 spells we have that counter dodge rollers, reflect, and shuffle was nerfed 15% for single targets. Who can't hit a DK? Sorcs can't. Sorc nerf.

8) Dots proc on shields. Sorcs are the only class utterly dependent on a damage shield. Sorc nerf.

"Buffs":

1) Meteor - Everyone got this.

2) A physical mitigation star - Everyone got this.

3) The option to buff just one bar with inner light rather than two - Everyone got this.

4) Combined elemental and magic damage star - Everyone got this. Magiplar, Magiblades and Stam DK have ALWAYS had all of their damage scale with a single star.

Make no mistake, we didn't get anything but nerfs. This isn't a complaint thread. This thread is a reality check for everyone on the nerf sorc bandwagon.

JubJub · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:

4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets.

Wasted on pets? I'm actually looking forward to those changes sir. Some people actually play sorc builds other than the same cookiecutter ones.

Xeven · February 2016

rossvoss wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:

4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets.

Wasted on pets? I'm actually looking forward to those changes sir. Some people actually play sorc builds other than the same cookiecutter ones.

I'm not talking about PvE. That should be obvious. Enjoy your PvE buffs, seriously.

CyrusArya · February 2016

Sorc is overpowered in the live patch. Sorc is even more powerful next patch than it is on live. You say that the cp changes affect everyone, and they do. But they buff sorc more than anything else, because sorc has the most powerful and viable options on both sides of the magicka spectrum (magical damage/elemental damage). High Elf Magicka Sorc will have the hardest hitting ice comets, period. There is literally nothing else that needs to be said. Before you start insinuating I have some bias, realize that my most played character is a magicka sorc.

The only one who needs a reality check is you. Play something other than a shield-stacker once in a while and you'll get some much-needed perspective.

Edit: Actually, there is more that needs to be said. The physical resist cp benefits sorcs more than anything else. This is because a magicka sorc has a ridiculous advantage against any magicka build by being able to stack harness over hardened (broken mechanic). As such, they can safely stack more into hardy than any other class. The most viable counter to sorcs was physical damage, and even then it entailed getting a KB while the shields were down. Now sorcs have a greater threshold to the damage they can take while shields are down, allowing them to more reliably break cc and resume shield stacking. Magicka sorc is not balanced. Now I'm not saying nerf sorcs, but no class is easier to play or do well with. Take from that what you will. All of these attributes, from easy damage to easy survivability, are magnified next patch. The only thing that was nerfed was sorc mobility.

If you really know the class in and out, as i suspect you do, this is such a disingenuous post.

AriBoh · February 2016

1) no one can not just sorcs.
2) Everyone got this.
3) This does affect sorcs mainly but damage shields have been OP BS and even with this still are.
4) But you just got the best heal in the game out of it.
5) I'll give you that.
6) I main a templar, I got 2 buffs to not very good/used skills and then a kick in the balls.
7) See 2.
8) See 2.

Anhedonie · February 2016

lol
Want to trade with templar's "buffs"?

Kaliki · February 2016

Most of what you describe also affects other classes. And Templars have received a series of serious nerfs this patch solely affecting Templar abilities.

Another example is IC and battle spirit that ruined the Templar shield while sorcs are still off pretty well.

Or BoL, that was nerfed to make other classes better at healing in comparison.

I'm not saying you didn't get nerfed this time, but you're overestimating Templar buffs and underestimating the series of nerfs or "fixes" we just got.

FENGRUSH · February 2016

Magicka sorc was already strong - they didnt really take direct nerfs - and they need to receive some rebalance already. How can a magicka sorc complain... :'(

Xeven · February 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Magicka sorc was already strong - they didnt really take direct nerfs - and they need to receive some rebalance already. How can a magicka sorc complain... :'(

Xeven wrote:

This isn't a complaint thread. This thread is a reality check for everyone on the nerf sorc bandwagon.

Ahzek · February 2016

Way to QQ.
I guess you cant spare some tears for people who play actually challenging speccs ?

On a serious note though, most of these changes will hardly have any effect on mag sorc, with the exception of the CP changes, which seem ro be rather in favor of sorcs with the ele expert change, while most other builds will invest in their main damage pool (and sub stars like crit or penetration) before investing into shield damage.

Buffs to underpowered speccs like mag dk or temp will also hardly dent sorcs overall power ...

Kaliki · February 2016

@Xeven:
Do you perceive that many are calling for Sorc nerfs? I honestly don't, at all.

However, one word about Templar synergising with Kagrenac and this thing is history.

Streamers complaining about BoL and its nerfed.

NBs comlplaining about our self stun charge going through dodge roll, consider it "fixed".

Could go on with this for a while... But its too sad.

Spacemonkey · February 2016

Thraben · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:

Make no mistake, we didn't get anything but nerfs. This isn't a complaint thread. This thread is a reality check for everyone on the nerf sorc bandwagon.

The reality check will occur when millions of shield stacking batswarming proxydetonating sorcs will swarm out in Cyrodil soon.

code65536 · February 2016

Sorcs were buffed sky-high in this patch.

Combined elemental and magic damage star - Everyone got this.

How many magicka nightblades and templars do a substantial amount of elemental damage? How many magicka DKs do a substantial amount of magic damage? Among the magicka classes, sorcs were the only ones with a noteworthy split between damage types. Yes, everyone got this CP consolidation, but sorcs will benefit from it far, far more than any other class. DPS-wise, magicka sorcs got the biggest boost in this patch, which is pretty remarkable considering that they already top the DPS charts pre-TG.

And most of your so-called "nerfs" are stuff that also fall under "everyone got this".

Mumyo · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:
1) We cant double reflect anymore.
2) Our speed buff was reduced 10% and we can't sprint to make up the difference, especially now that drinks don't work while sprinting.
3) 25% damage vs shields CP star.
4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets.
5) All of our toggles are still toggles.
6) Every other class has received relevant buffs/bug fixes, and continue to see them with each PTS update. This makes us relatively weaker.
7) One of the 2 spells we have that counter dodge rollers, reflect, and shuffle was nerfed 15% for single targets. (Magicka Det)
8) No relevant gear aside from the niche Vicious Death and Alchemist sets.

"Buffs":
1) Meteor - Everyone got this.
2) A physical mitigation star - Everyone got this.
3) The option to buff just one bar with inner light rather than two - Everyone got this.
4) Combined elemental and magic damage star - Everyone got this.

Make no mistake, we didn't get anything but nerfs. This isn't a complaint thread. This thread is a reality check for everyone on the nerf sorc bandwagon.

Double reflect hits everyone, toggles are still toggles is not a nerf.
dev round wasted on pets is not a nerf, its a buff but petwise
magicka det is also not a sorcnerf.
no relevant gear but 2 sets is also not a nerf.

WTF is wrong with you?

Actually not a single point in ur list is a sorcnerf except for the 25% cp star.

Xeven · February 2016

code65536 · February 2016

Trying to decide if the OP is serious or trolling...

Ahzek · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Pretends to have created a troll thread after passing a quick reality chack ...

Xeven · February 2016

I'm not trolling, I'm being very serious, however I've come to find the sorc hate echo chamber amusing.

Kaliki · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

I'm not trolling, I've come to find the sorc hate echo chamber amusing.

Who's hating on sorcs?
Ppl are simply stating that mag sorcs are in a very good place right now, and contesting your nerfs as they mostly affect every class.

Where are the nerf threads and hate you seem to enjoy so much?

danno8 · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:
1) We cant double reflect anymore.
Applies to everyone equally

2) Our speed buff was reduced 10% and we can't sprint to make up the difference, especially now that drinks don't work while sprinting.
Applies to everyone equally

3) 25% damage vs shields CP star.
Every time damage shields are brought up most Sorcerers are only to happy to note that "Every one has access to damage shields", so what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Applies to everyone equally.

4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets.
Are you sure you know what a nerf is?

5) All of our toggles are still toggles.
Neutral statement. Not a nerf.

6) Every other class has received relevant buffs/bug fixes, and continue to see them with each PTS update. This makes us relatively weaker.
Hasn't the phrase "Bring everyone up to Sorcerer level, don't nerf Sorcerers" been used to justify exactly what you are calling a nerf? Again, are you sure you understand what a nerf is?

7) One of the 2 spells we have that counter dodge rollers, reflect, and shuffle was nerfed 15% for single targets. (Magicka Det)
Applies to everyone equally

8) No relevant gear aside from the niche Vicious Death and Alchemist sets.
Applies to everyone equally.

Bolded my addition.

acw37162 · February 2016

Definitely a troll thread

Xeven · February 2016

The animosity towards sorcerer is clear. You can see it in this very thread, some of it is justified.

Some of it however is not, it's just hate. One thing I see a lot these days is that it's the easiest class to play. It isn't. We have the same 12 skill slots that you do, and the same global cooldowns, and in many situations our effective build diversity is much more limited. Yes, we have a spammable active defense mechanic that is extremely strong 1v1, but every class has access to extremely strong defense that also scale with their primary offensives attributes. Dodge roll, block, vigor, rally, shuffle, impen, reflect, resistances, mobility, high damage.

Some of the tankiest players in the game are NOT sorcerers, and they do absolutely insane damage.

Sure, you hear streamers like @FENGRUSH complain about sorc. You also hear him and @Sypher complain about reverberating DKs, Ambush spamming NBs, and the heal spamming Templars.

Every class can be extremely tanky while also being extremely effective. Sorcerer is no different, nor should it be. This is the game that we all play. Sorcerer does not deserve any more hate than any other class, and it most certainly isn't any easier to play effectively at a high level.

davey1107 · February 2016

The issues the Op describes are, in my opinion, designed as the "drawbacks" to sorcs...and all classes have some drawbacks. My night blade is too squishy, my Templar has magic resource issues.

As a whole, when playing my altmer sorc I take those drawbacks as a counterbalance to his insanely unlimited magicka pool and insane ranged dps potential. My sorc seems OP compared to my other three vets, but he's not as fun to play.

I'd accept a reversal to the OP's stated nerfs, but to retain balance I think sorc spell costs would all need to go up, damage down, and some other effects mitigated.

Alcast · February 2016

Nobody will ever put points into shielddmg CP as long as there is a CP cap.

Lexxypwns · February 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

High Elf Magicka Sorc will have the hardest hitting ice comets, period. There is literally nothing else that needs to be said.

Only becuase Dunmer DK uses shooting star
Edit: also Dunmer DK will hit harder with Vicious Death (both of these are fine imo)

Xeven · February 2016

davey1107 wrote: »

The issues the Op describes are, in my opinion, designed as the "drawbacks" to sorcs...and all classes have some drawbacks. My night blade is too squishy, my Templar has magic resource issues.

As a whole, when playing my altmer sorc I take those drawbacks as a counterbalance to his insanely unlimited magicka pool and insane ranged dps potential. My sorc seems OP compared to my other three vets, but he's not as fun to play.

I'd accept a reversal to the OP's stated nerfs, but to retain balance I think sorc spell costs would all need to go up, damage down, and some other effects mitigated.

I do not want any of these nerfs to be reversed. I might be an ass, but I am reasonable. I do want to say though that hardened ward is right on the edge. It's a very hard thing to balance.

Almost every Sorc is already running 100 cp into bastion, and it doesnt scale with magicka anywhere near like it used to due to battle spirit. Hold your hate for just a moment and let me finish...

Hardened Ward is all we have. This isn't exaggeration, it does have to be somewhat strong to be competitive. Our wards are already as strong as theyre ever going to be, while average CP, weapon damage, and spell damage continue to increase with each patch. Two well timed wrecking blows and an executioner will completely obliterate 99% of sorcerers with a full Hardend Ward.

They are now dottable, you do have the option to do 25% more damage, and you do have a shield breaker option. I'm not saying they dont need another minor nerf, but how much weaker, honestly, do you think they need to be? Believe me, you do not want to give them impen and resistances in exchange for critablility. That will end up being a massive buff.

Will the hate never end until we are being twoshotted all over Cyrodiil? Every. Single. Class. When played at a high level is extremely hard to kill. Sorc should NOT be the exception.

phillyboy7897 · February 2016

6-10 points into shield damage cp for most, unless Cyrodiil becomes Sorc fest then more.

OP is a troll, or looking to keep overpowered status next patch.

Expect a lot of these posts just like we got from stamblades explaining how thier class is balanced by cherry picking facts and miscontruing things.

Threads like this are actually a very good sign a class needs to be nerfed because it means the player base of that class understands it is overpowered enough to warrant a nerf thus making it worth the time invested to make a bs post like this.

You'll never see a thread like this from a Templar or Stam Sorc. Gee wonder why?

Kwivur · February 2016

rossvoss wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Nerfs:

4) Our entire dev round this patch was wasted on pets.

Wasted on pets? I'm actually looking forward to those changes sir. Some people actually play sorc builds other than the same cookiecutter ones.

Weak... So weak..

Xeven · February 2016

On the topic of sorc damage being abnormally high. It's not. Take @FENGRUSH for example. A high level respected player who knows how to gear and spread his CP. We've dueled many times. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win. Anyway here is my point:

My frag tooltip is a touch over 15k when proced with full damage CP. Not the highest but respectable, as I value high sustain. Half that with battle spirit and you get 7.5k. I'm using a legendary nirnhoned staff with 5 light. I'm using virtually all the spell pen available to me barring weakness to elements. There is no more penetration that I can stack, and I certainly cant trade any more sustain for damage. He will wear me down and obliterate me.

It hits him for 4k every single time.

So how can I win? I have to burst him down, because if I pluck at him with procced frags he will laugh as he sends me to my death recap screen.

This is not a shield that he casted, a global cooldown that he spent, or even a tactic that he had to think about. It's just passive mitigation and crit resistance.

Likewise, being a Stam Sorc, he has not many native burst options. He absolutely must slot wrecking blow, or werewolf, or both to burst me down. We all have to make sacrifices, and anyone who is worth a damn will need to be bursted down. Sustained DPS just isn't going to cut it in todays meta.

TLDR:
If sorc is hitting you too hard, have a look at Fengrush's build videos.

aLi3nZ · February 2016

I am looking forward to patch.

I have been using pets in 1v1 a lot on pts. 2 pets vs DK ois fun and pretty cool. Using the curse to have the pets more damage and 1 per to stun and 1 to heal. I think they are viable to pvp. I prefer to use just 1 pet otherwise too many slots are taken up.