Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

CP5 · February 2016

Dyride wrote: »

If DKs are naturally "tanky," Nightblades are "stealthy" then the defining principle in my opinion for Sorcerers was mobility i.e. Bolt Escape, Boundless Storm.

Giving a snare purge + 2 sec immunity to snares for Thundering Presence could be a nice buff.

The speed and minor AOE balance against the better mitigation found in Shuffle which gives 20% flat dodge chance (stronger than Major Ward/Resist which is 8% mitigation imo).

That was one of the reasons I picked that as my first character. I knew I was going to go bow+medium armor but I felt that the mobility from boundless and bolt escape, plus the clannfear, made the class far more interesting for me.

Jar_Ek · February 2016

Dyride wrote: »

If DKs are naturally "tanky," Nightblades are "stealthy" then the defining principle in my opinion for Sorcerers was mobility i.e. Bolt Escape, Boundless Storm.

Giving a snare purge + 2 sec immunity to snares for Thundering Presence could be a nice buff.

The speed and minor AOE balance against the better mitigation found in Shuffle which gives 20% flat dodge chance (stronger than Major Ward/Resist which is 8% mitigation imo).

When I think of sorcerers, I don't think mobility although that is certainly an important attribute of them, I think battlefield control. Thus they have both personal mobility (lightning form morphs and streak), the ability to limit opponents mobility (encase, crystal shard, streak, rune prison, daedric mines), a tank pet (solo taunt), and area denial (lightning splash, daedric mines, storm atronach and negate).

Unfortunately stamina sorcerers only have the mobility element available (some area denial with ultimate use), mostly due to the magicka costs (and scaling to a lesser extent).

Being able to cast an effective daedric mines or encase or crystal shard would be a potential game changer for us... but the key word is effective - so both affordable and scaled appropriately (in terms of resource, weapon power and damage type).

Oh and one final thing. I see no problem with daedric magicka (for some morphs( causing poison or disease damage as it is essentially alien to nirn.

Birdovic · February 2016

I like the overall Speed Boost, it doesnt feel so damn slow anymore.
But yes, it really hits too hard on Stam Sorc.

Boundless Storm is important because Movement is the only reliable Ability Stam Sorc have to come close/avoid/fight enemies(Except with 2Handed which has a gap closer).
It allows to be more efficiently with DW/Bow (No gap closers) and grants a valuable armor/spellres boost, too.

The % Movement Speed Difference to unbuffed people has to remain as it is currently on Live, atleast on this Ability.

This Change will force Stam Players into using 2H and WB even more. 2H is too good to not use (or DW is not good enough to use? You decide). Changing the Quick Cloak from DualWield is another option. But well, we still have a useless Stam Morph that needs to be gone or atleast changed.

Xeven · February 2016

Magicka sorcerers are no longer mobile relative to the other classes. They are one step above magicka dk/templar, and slower than everything else. Mobility does NOT define sorcerer. Compounding this is the nerf to movement speed buffs.

We can move quickly over a very short distance. Anything stam is way, way faster.

Cathexis · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

Magicka sorcerers are no longer mobile relative to the other classes. They are one step above magicka dk/templar, and slower than everything else. Mobility does NOT define sorcerer. Compounding this is the nerf to movement speed buffs.

We can move quickly over a very short distance. Anything stam is way, way faster.

Sorcs used to be defined by mobility. Hell I remember when I could use equilibrium, dark deal, and bolt escape to effectively move indefinitely in teleport with no points into magicka anything.. Cant do that anymore, but hey you can teleport anywhere on the battlefield as a nightblade for no cost! balanced.

olsborg · February 2016

Things are nerfed to the point that the game is dumbed down...badly...no need to L2P.

Nahz · February 2016

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Summon Unstable Familiar: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

Summon Winged Twilight: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

What just happened here...

I thought reducing the amount of time for which the skill button must be held from 4 seconds to 2 seconds seemed like an appropriate method of dismissing pets. Can we just have the 4 second button-hold back if this is going to be the alternative?

If I'm trying to quickly go into stealth to evade enemy players, I don't have time to leave myself completely defenseless by going into a menu, scrolling through a list of active effects, and picking out the two that need to be deactivated. Not that leaving myself defenseless for 8 seconds is any better, but at least I would still be able to move around.

@Wrobel, does this mean that we're definitely not getting the volatile familiar's death explosion (i.e., the feature which made the unstable familiar skill even remotely worthwhile for pvp) back; and that ZOS is not open to discussion about that feature?

Birdovic · February 2016

I thought reducing the amount of time for which the skill button must be held from 4 seconds to 2 seconds seemed like an appropriate method of dismissing pets. Can we just have the 4 second button-hold back if this is going to be the alternative?

Yep, 100% agree. I thought thats the easiest Solution (which makes most sense, too!).
Impossible to dismiss the pet is the answer, really? Well, all I know is this: Wrong Answer.

Stikato · February 2016

Nahz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Summon Unstable Familiar: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

Summon Winged Twilight: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

What just happened here...

I thought reducing the amount of time for which the skill button must be held from 4 seconds to 2 seconds seemed like an appropriate method of dismissing pets. Can we just have the 4 second button-hold back if this is going to be the alternative?

If I'm trying to quickly go into stealth to evade enemy players, I don't have time to leave myself completely defenseless by going into a menu, scrolling through a list of active effects, and picking out the two that need to be deactivated. Not that leaving myself defenseless for 8 seconds is any better, but at least I would still be able to move around.

@Wrobel, does this mean that we're definitely not getting the volatile familiar's death explosion (i.e., the feature which made the unstable familiar skill even remotely worthwhile for pvp) back; and that ZOS is not open to discussion about that feature?

Agreed.

The pet redesign, outside maybe of making a Sorc Healer, is terrible. It was better before.

Back to the drawing board guys. Seriously. Sometimes you just have to admit a change didn't work, and come up with a new alternative. A great example of what not to do, in a similar case would be Proxy. Terrible design, but they keep trying to tweak a failure into a success.

SmalltalkJava · February 2016

Remember pet stealth will be fixed soon. Before pts goes live

I'm really enjoying the new pet changes. Would like the pbaoe damage perked up a bit. But sorc is much more fun for me now. More active and adaptive to tactical changes

Nahz · February 2016

SmalltalkJava wrote: »

Remember pet stealth will be fixed soon. Before pts goes live

That will definitely help, but having the pets following behind you increases your detection radius. Think of how much easier it is to find a group of players who are in stealth, but are strung out in a long line; as opposed to a group of players who are all stacked right on top of each other.

JubJub · February 2016

So...has anyone taken video of the new pet changes in action? I'm a console player so no way for me to test

remilafo · February 2016

Stikato wrote: »

Nahz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Summon Unstable Familiar: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

Summon Winged Twilight: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

What just happened here...

I thought reducing the amount of time for which the skill button must be held from 4 seconds to 2 seconds seemed like an appropriate method of dismissing pets. Can we just have the 4 second button-hold back if this is going to be the alternative?

If I'm trying to quickly go into stealth to evade enemy players, I don't have time to leave myself completely defenseless by going into a menu, scrolling through a list of active effects, and picking out the two that need to be deactivated. Not that leaving myself defenseless for 8 seconds is any better, but at least I would still be able to move around.

@Wrobel, does this mean that we're definitely not getting the volatile familiar's death explosion (i.e., the feature which made the unstable familiar skill even remotely worthwhile for pvp) back; and that ZOS is not open to discussion about that feature?

Agreed.

The pet redesign, outside maybe of making a Sorc Healer, is terrible. It was better before.

Back to the drawing board guys. Seriously. Sometimes you just have to admit a change didn't work, and come up with a new alternative. A great example of what not to do, in a similar case would be Proxy. Terrible design, but they keep trying to tweak a failure into a success.

pets in pvp, there's an example of what NOT to do..

Stikato · February 2016

remilafo wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Nahz wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Sorcerer
Daedric Summoning
Summon Unstable Familiar: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

Summon Winged Twilight: The pets summoned from this ability and its morphs can no longer be dismissed by holding down the button. The pet can now be dismissed by removing the buff from your Active Effects window.

What just happened here...

I thought reducing the amount of time for which the skill button must be held from 4 seconds to 2 seconds seemed like an appropriate method of dismissing pets. Can we just have the 4 second button-hold back if this is going to be the alternative?

If I'm trying to quickly go into stealth to evade enemy players, I don't have time to leave myself completely defenseless by going into a menu, scrolling through a list of active effects, and picking out the two that need to be deactivated. Not that leaving myself defenseless for 8 seconds is any better, but at least I would still be able to move around.

@Wrobel, does this mean that we're definitely not getting the volatile familiar's death explosion (i.e., the feature which made the unstable familiar skill even remotely worthwhile for pvp) back; and that ZOS is not open to discussion about that feature?

Agreed.

The pet redesign, outside maybe of making a Sorc Healer, is terrible. It was better before.

Back to the drawing board guys. Seriously. Sometimes you just have to admit a change didn't work, and come up with a new alternative. A great example of what not to do, in a similar case would be Proxy. Terrible design, but they keep trying to tweak a failure into a success.

pets in pvp, there's an example of what NOT to do..

The fact that pets aren't great in pvp is only another indication of poor design. I'm not sure the point you are trying to make.

Jar_Ek · February 2016

Just for the record Rebate is truly dreadful now. It is of no use to stamina builds (no surprise as pets aren't either), it cannot be intentionally triggered as pets are not dismissable, scamps do not explode and trigger it, and all pets heal. Basically it will randomly trigger when a pet dies which we cannot even predict as we have no pet health bars...
Please replace it with something worthwhile.

Alsaroth · February 2016

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Why are they making Sorc pets require MORE micro-managing? If I am reading this right, you have to press them again to trigger their attack?

Maybe, and I'm writing MAYBE, it will work better if one is playing a off-heal or tank sorc with pets. Having the clannfear heal you for 35% health at your command (don't know about cooldown) "seems" nicer than of having to un-summon it. Also the matriarch healing itself and two allies at your command "seems" like a nice change. The scamp, that I run with, will be more micromanaging, sure, but I can, probably, live with that.

Azharan · February 2016

Concerning pets.

After testing different pet builds, here are some problems making them not viable in PVP:

- Pet global AI (especially focus system), reactivity and speed
- Pet damages too low considering that you need 2 slots for each of them. PVP players prefer slotting something else instead (and they're right).
- Necropotence set is still v12 and full sturdy.
...(non-exhaustive list)
Maybe some directions to be explored.

SmalltalkJava · February 2016

Azharan wrote: »

Concerning pets.

After testing different pet builds, here are some problems making them not viable in PVP:

- Pet global AI (especially focus system), reactivity and speed
- Pet damages too low considering that you need 2 slots for each of them. PVP players prefer slotting something else instead (and they're right).
- Necropotence set is still v12 and full sturdy.
...(non-exhaustive list)
Maybe some directions to be explored.

a summon centric gear set would be great. There are so many cool things zos could do with them. Sets that enhance sorc abilities if you gave a pet up. sets that increase pet attack speed by 75%, or even double

Stikato · February 2016

Alsaroth wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Why are they making Sorc pets require MORE micro-managing? If I am reading this right, you have to press them again to trigger their attack?

Maybe, and I'm writing MAYBE, it will work better if one is playing a off-heal or tank sorc with pets. Having the clannfear heal you for 35% health at your command (don't know about cooldown) "seems" nicer than of having to un-summon it. Also the matriarch healing itself and two allies at your command "seems" like a nice change. The scamp, that I run with, will be more micromanaging, sure, but I can, probably, live with that.

I hope so, I like the clannfear currently. It is nice to have a ~6k HP + 1.5k Magicka heal available on-demand and free. For TG, I will need to have 6k magicka available to "cast" the pet heal.

There is no cooldown, but you do have to have the resources to do it.

seitekisaki · February 2016

So I might be saying something similar to a lot of people but here goes.
Now that the sorc definitely has reliable class healing they do not need a hardened ward as strong as it is now. Every other class with a class shield with its highest resources for the shield can't get as much damage or shield strength with bastion as a sorc can with its shield.
The excuse used to be that sorc's didn't have reliable healing so they needed a defensive shield. Keeping that in mind I honestly think its completely ridiculous to keep the shields as they are now. They need to be toned down. They should still be stronger than other shields but definitely shouldn't be able to sustain with only a shield and be tankier than a DK and have better survivability and competitive heals than a Templar.
Nerf the sorc's shields please, and no do not make shields critable because it would only cripple classes like DK and Templar or even NB that uses healing ward and class shields to survive. A sorc could maintain a powerful shield and powerful damage unlike any other class, (Here I am repeating myself) which is ridiculous because now they have powerful healing capabilities.
With that being said I like the sorc changes. I like variety in the classes. Stam sorc still needs help but I think this has been good for pet sorcs.

tl;dr Sorc shields very strong and now they have reliable class healing. Something is wrong with that. (and yes I have a sorc)

Jar_Ek · February 2016

But no other class has a heal that can be killed easily. The twilight is pretty squishy in pvp.

Didgerion · February 2016

Alsaroth wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Why are they making Sorc pets require MORE micro-managing? If I am reading this right, you have to press them again to trigger their attack?

Maybe, and I'm writing MAYBE, it will work better if one is playing a off-heal or tank sorc with pets. Having the clannfear heal you for 35% health at your command (don't know about cooldown) "seems" nicer than of having to un-summon it. Also the matriarch healing itself and two allies at your command "seems" like a nice change. The scamp, that I run with, will be more micromanaging, sure, but I can, probably, live with that.

Yeah just make sure you don't swap bars...all your micromanagement will be wasted in a microsecond.

Lucky28 · February 2016

seitekisaki wrote: »

So I might be saying something similar to a lot of people but here goes.
Now that the sorc definitely has reliable class healing they do not need a hardened ward as strong as it is now. Every other class with a class shield with its highest resources for the shield can't get as much damage or shield strength with bastion as a sorc can with its shield.
The excuse used to be that sorc's didn't have reliable healing so they needed a defensive shield. Keeping that in mind I honestly think its completely ridiculous to keep the shields as they are now. They need to be toned down. They should still be stronger than other shields but definitely shouldn't be able to sustain with only a shield and be tankier than a DK and have better survivability and competitive heals than a Templar.
Nerf the sorc's shields please, and no do not make shields critable because it would only cripple classes like DK and Templar or even NB that uses healing ward and class shields to survive. A sorc could maintain a powerful shield and powerful damage unlike any other class, (Here I am repeating myself) which is ridiculous because now they have powerful healing capabilities.
With that being said I like the sorc changes. I like variety in the classes. Stam sorc still needs help but I think this has been good for pet sorcs.

tl;dr Sorc shields very strong and now they have reliable class healing. Something is wrong with that. (and yes I have a sorc)

Actually, it needs to be stonger since they continuously nerf our mobility and force us into the shield stacking meta. give me back my mobility and do whatever you want with shields. otherwise; people cried to nerf our mobility they can deal with what that resulted in.

that aside. the Twilight dies a lot and has a very long cast time.. i wouldn't call it a reliable heal in in PvP.

olsborg · February 2016

Jar_Ek wrote: »

But no other class has a heal that can be killed easily. The twilight is pretty squishy in pvp.

Try supersquishy, it dies in 1-2 hits and you cant refresh shield on it and you cant reliably know/keep its current hp..combat is too fast for that in pvp.

seitekisaki · February 2016

I wasn't clear about what type of setting I was talking about. The pet is strong in a group pve setting while shield stacking is stronger in a pvp setting. Since you guys want to talk pvp though imagine this. With around 52k max magicka I could pump out a lot of consistent damage along with a 17k shield in pvp with just hardened ward alone. I still don't think that is very well balanced considering the fact that Sorc's have more mobility than other classes in pvp going into next patch. I'm not saying the shields should be lowered significantly though. Just enough.

Ravenfrost · February 2016

@ZOS_GinaBruno
As player who has played a sorc since day one of release and also has played a pet sorc in pvp for a long duration in the past, I was very excited when I heard about the new change to the Twilight Matriarch for heals, but then I read more and the new change for volatile familiar and it is terrible.

3 Damage pulses and a stun is not what I want from my pet.

If you were able to control you pets properly in the past using your passive and aggressive pet keys, then you could use this pet to do many things and the pet explosion was a great option to be able to have to interrupt when you want it to or stun a group of players. It was also a great option to throw in for aoeing with a group. You need to be able to make your pet explode when you want it to. The new changes to sets and CP would make the current volatile familiar(non-pts version) a viable build again. This new change is no good for PvP pet sorcs.

You've completely removed any chance that I will play pet sorc again in pvp now. I really enjoyed the build in the past. Leave the volatile familiar pet as it is in non-pts. If you must change it to your newly designed morph, make the new option a 3rd ability morph, but PLEASE do not change how the current volatile familiar pet works!!!

Emma_Overload · February 2016

seitekisaki wrote: »

So I might be saying something similar to a lot of people but here goes.
Now that the sorc definitely has reliable class healing...

You haven't really tried the new pets on the PTS, have you? They're terrible and don't live longer than 10 seconds.

Lucky28 · February 2016

seitekisaki wrote: »

I wasn't clear about what type of setting I was talking about. The pet is strong in a group pve setting while shield stacking is stronger in a pvp setting. Since you guys want to talk pvp though imagine this. With around 52k max magicka I could pump out a lot of consistent damage along with a 17k shield in pvp with just hardened ward alone. I still don't think that is very well balanced considering the fact that Sorc's have more mobility than other classes in pvp going into next patch. I'm not saying the shields should be lowered significantly though. Just enough.

No, the Twilight isn't going to make any difference. best healing in PvE will still be surge and the best healing in PvP will still be healing ward. in group maybe. however, your talking about nerfing hardened ward because some sorcs might play healer?. nah man.

cschwingeb14_ESO · February 2016

The biggest problem with the twilight is that it is a giant headache inducing flapper on your screen. Can this thing be made smaller? I'm not sure that will really help?

The second biggest problem is not being able to dismiss it without going into the character screen and clicking it off.

The third biggest problem is how fast it dies, and the issues with keeping it alive

aLi3nZ · February 2016

There is a bug with streak on the pts. You press streak button. It does an animation and even stuns the enemy but you don't teleport:flash forward.