I'm starting to see why meteor is most likely staying the way it is because i can imagine seeing 24 dks running around and reflecting all meteors.... massive lag and next to unkillable. I think the meteor changes are here to stay. To help prevent ball ups and zergs. As much as I hate the det> meteor combo and not being able to do anything but stand there hold up block and wait to be cc'd. There has to be something else I can do so everyone is not forced to eat meteors. So the steel tornado crew doesn't turn into a det > meteor group when zerg balling and create yet another black hole effect of who stacks more of the same moves. But if other ultimates are still dodgable this one should be too.

But when you look at this common scenario... 24 man group running 10 bat swarms, followed by det, steel tornado, and on top of it unreflectable meteors.

LorDrek wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

If they just un-nerfed Healing % shields and heals (aka change battle spirit so that heals and shields based on health percentage are NOT reduced by 50%) this would help stamina DKs and magicka DKs and make Dragons blood no longer a joke and return it to its status as a class defining ability.

This would also help restore blazing shield to a class defining ability for templars. This one change would fix so much and reward tankier characters that run more health.

Yes, that really should be done. Dragon Blood is a shadow of what it used to be since max health modifier was nerfed, and it got the Cyrodiil debuff on it. But it never ever needed to be nerfed because it doesn't scale with the outrageously high max magicka / max stamina values which are needed these days in Cyrodiil to do any damage, due to the general Cyrodiil damage debuff, and the neverending resources people are able to have.

I would hope for this but it also makes magicka dks stronger since the skill cost magicka... this is probaby the reason they will not do this. On top of the almost 20k heals from burning embers cheap attack DoT and burst heals every few seconds. It works similar almost to 20k shields so i think its here to stay.

Hmmm stamina dk have nothing, need change dragon blood.

Therefore a stamina morph of more dk class skills.

I like most of the changes. Issues to be dealt with in my opinion:

Dragon Blood: this single target heal ability pales in comparison to an aoe heal (blessing of restoration). To make this skill viable, my suggestion would be to make it have a minimum heal amount equal to BoR, then have it increase proportionately with missing health. That way it always heals effectively, is dependable, and remains unique.

Chains: fix the elevation issues. I don't need to pull people off keeps. But I was standing next to a friend I was testing with on a hill and the skill wouldn't work at all. 25+ attempts from different angles, not one went off. Also occasionally someone will block and the ability will be countered. The ability should be blockable, but as with other gap closers, the movement should still take place. A melee class pretty much requires this to be useful in pvp.

Igneous weapons: dks need some kind of DoT execute (apply for regular dmg, burst when enemy is low health). I applaude the spell dmg buff, but the ability itself is crap otherwise. Dks need a magicka execute. As every other class has one, this doesn't seem like a lot to ask for.

I haven't had the chance to hop on my DK and test it, so these are just my preliminarily thoughts and subject to change.

• Dragon's Blood is still a waste of a skill. If ZoS believes the DK already has enough healing with embers, lash, stonefist, etc., fine I'll buy that argument (and agree as I wouldn't slot the skill even if it worked in it's 1.6 version), but then replace the skill and give DKs something actually useful.
• I still don't like Inferno. I never did like the 1.6 redesign of what was wrongly believed an unused skill. It's still a redundant toggle that PVE DPS are going to slot because it's free damage. That is utterly unimaginative design and requires no skill on the part of the player to use.
• I do like the idea of the cauterize morph, but it is strictly a morph for a dedicated healer and I don't know how many DKs will do that. Don't get me wrong, I like healing on my DK, but I am not respecing my build every time a friend asks me to DPS the new trial.
• I still think Ash Cloud at heart should be a "tank" skill that helps us stand our ground and fight, not a DPS DoT.
• Not to be a negative Nancy, most of the changes I do like. The embers heal change was necessary. I appreciate the effort to make DoTs more viable in PvP. The chains pull sounds like something we asked for (I'll have to test it out to see if I still get that annoying elevation restriction). Shifting standard absolutely needed the cost reduction (and so does Might). I might try the new stonefist. These changes will absolutely give us more damage and more healing which was definitely needed.
• My instinct is that these changes will favor the DKs who are oriented as DPS as opposed to tank for PvP. Which is fine one way to balance it as ZoS did the same for templars. But tanks might feel left out and I don't blame them. Just an observation.

Edited for clarity

Feedback: Overall Score 7/10

Empowering Chains: 10/10
Excellent changes and exactly what DK needed in terms of a gap closer.

Burning Embers: 10/10
Excellent. This skill now provides Magicka DK that combat-oriented healing sustain that they desperately needed since Dragon's Blood is borderline unusable (more on that later).

Inferno: 0/10
A worthless skill remains worthless. In fact, it's value is further degraded by the buff allowing Magelight to grant empower. The only people using this skill were min/maxers who were running BOTH Inferno and Inner Light because Inferno granted a passive 1k boost to DPS. As @Joy_Division mentions above, it is a lazy design and it promotes a lazy playstyle.

Suggestion:
1. Inferno: Major Prophecy and Major Savagery become baseline buffs while slotted.
2. Flames of Oblivion: Activate to surround yourself in flames for x seconds dealing x damage. Enemies damaged by your flames take x% more damage from flame attacks.
3. Cauterize: Activate to surround yourself in healing flames for x seconds, healing nearby allies for x health per second.

Inhale: 9/10
Very happy with this skill now that it affects 6 targets. Nothing more to add really.

Stone Fist: 0/10
I honestly don't understand this skill. If I want to CC something, I'll use fossilize. If I want heals, I'll use something else. Stone Fist is completely worthless and requires a total rework. Adding a small AoE heal does not fix a skill.

Suggestion:
1. Stone Fist: Base skill becomes an instant cast, melee-based execute (5m) dealing magicka damage. No longer CCs.
2. Obsidian Shard: Stamina morph, damage converted to physical.
3. (New Morph) Lava Strike: Damage converted to Flame. Now deals x% bonus damage when caster is at full health.

Molten Weapons: 8/10
I am PUMPED that DKs now have a class-based Major Sorcery/Brutality, but bummed we lost our class-based execute (even if it was a very clunk execute). However, if DKs were to acquire an execute elsewhere (Hint: Stone Fist), this change becomes 10/10.

Ash Cloud: 8/10
The damage boost to Eruption is very nice. That being said, I miss the PBAoE that this skill used to be. I'd like to see Cinder Storm reverted to being a self cast with Major Evasion for those standing inside of it.

Some Other Thoughts

Dragon Blood
Plenty has been said regarding how lackluster this skill has become so I won't say much. However, adding a heal over time would go a long way toward fixing it. I also think this skill could be absorb the armor buffs of Spiked Armor to give it both a proactive (cast before fights for armor bonuses) and reactive (cast during fights for heals) component. That would then free up a skill slot in Draconic Power for something else--perhaps a stamina-based dps skill.

Elder Dragon Passive
I can't believe this skill didn't get a pass over. +5% health recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted is completely worthless. No one stacks health recovery. Solution: +2% Stamina and Magicka recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted.

caperon wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] My instinct is that these changes will favor the DKs who are oriented as DPS as opposed to tank for PvP. Which is fine I suppose, as its the same for templars. Just an observation.
[/list]

I agree that whis is the ZoS intention, but I disagree it's fine. What is the problem of ZoS with tanks in PvP?

Hmm, I didn't mean it like that. And you're right, it's not a balance model to aspire too. Edited post for clarity.

Ishammael wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

Feedback: Overall Score 7/10

Empowering Chains: 10/10
Excellent changes and exactly what DK needed in terms of a gap closer.

Burning Embers: 10/10
Excellent. This skill now provides Magicka DK that combat-oriented healing sustain that they desperately needed since Dragon's Blood is borderline unusable (more on that later).

Inferno: 0/10
A worthless skill remains worthless. In fact, it's value is further degraded by the buff allowing Magelight to grant empower. The only people using this skill were min/maxers who were running BOTH Inferno and Inner Light because Inferno granted a passive 1k boost to DPS. As @Joy_Division mentions above, it is a lazy design and it promotes a lazy playstyle.

Suggestion:
1. Inferno: Major Prophecy and Major Savagery become baseline buffs while slotted.
2. Flames of Oblivion: Activate to surround yourself in flames for x seconds dealing x damage. Enemies damaged by your flames take x% more damage from flame attacks.
3. Cauterize: Activate to surround yourself in healing flames for x seconds, healing nearby allies for x health per second.

Inhale: 9/10
Very happy with this skill now that it affects 6 targets. Nothing more to add really.

Stone Fist: 0/10
I honestly don't understand this skill. If I want to CC something, I'll use fossilize. If I want heals, I'll use something else. Stone Fist is completely worthless and requires a total rework. Adding a small AoE heal does not fix a skill.

Suggestion:
1. Stone Fist: Base skill becomes an instant cast, melee-based execute (5m) dealing magicka damage. No longer CCs.
2. Obsidian Shard: Stamina morph, damage converted to physical.
3. (New Morph) Lava Strike: Damage converted to Flame. Now deals x% bonus damage when caster is at full health.

Molten Weapons: 8/10
I am PUMPED that DKs now have a class-based Major Sorcery/Brutality, but bummed we lost our class-based execute (even if it was a very clunk execute). However, if DKs were to acquire an execute elsewhere (Hint: Stone Fist), this change becomes 10/10.

Ash Cloud: 8/10
The damage boost to Eruption is very nice. That being said, I miss the PBAoE that this skill used to be. I'd like to see Cinder Storm reverted to being a self cast with Major Evasion for those standing inside of it.

Some Other Thoughts

Dragon Blood
Plenty has been said regarding how lackluster this skill has become so I won't say much. However, adding a heal over time would go a long way toward fixing it. I also think this skill could be absorb the armor buffs of Spiked Armor to give it both a proactive (cast before fights for armor bonuses) and reactive (cast during fights for heals) component. That would then free up a skill slot in Draconic Power for something else--perhaps a stamina-based dps skill.

Elder Dragon Passive
I can't believe this skill didn't get a pass over. +5% health recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted is completely worthless. No one stacks health recovery. Solution: +2% Stamina and Magicka recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted.

Agreed completely with this assessment.

Just some extra ideas:
1. Stone fist. One morph: a point-blank, magicka-based, (<6m) AoE execute, i.e. a stone fist slammed on the ground. Other morph: stamina-based, melee, spam-able attack.
2. Ash Cloud. Make this cast at your feet with the 20% miss chance. Remove the 2s additional snare.
3. Inferno: Remove Major Prophecy / Savagery and replace with Minor Heroism. One morph is the old skill, i.e. AoE fire DoT that drains your mana. Other morph gives you either: ultimate via damage taken, via damage done, or Major Heroism at the cost of drained mana.

Stamina BASED attack yay! Stone fist just sounds like a physical attack with your ... fist made of... stone. Or call it dragon fist and make it a power punch We dont need the knock down really because it conflicts with other cc like bow tree> magnum shot.. power bash ....wrecking blow... i guess it might help the dual wield stamina dk.... but a nice stamina attack would be nice actually i do not care if it stays the way it is so as long as it scales of stamina and weapon damage.... "punch an enemy with a mighty fist"

Well i guess you cannot call it dragon fist due to DBZ lol.

Ever seen those shows where they're having a battle and the guy punches the other guy while blocking his swing or kicking... the animation wouldn't even have to change really.

I would rather inferno grant the minor armor and spell resist instead of the crit.

would be nice to have the dodge chance back on cinder storm / eruption.

and stone fist does need to be reworked, but it is in dangerous territory of copying NB.

perhaps:
-base stonefist is a magicka based execute that deals moderate magicka damage, lowers enemy spell resist, and increases the users (minor / minor)
-stamina morph converts cost to stamina, damage to physical, and lowers armor while increasing users armor (minor / minor)
-magicka could either ramp up damage based on users %health or increase the spell resist bonuses to major / major?

Kilandros wrote: »

Dragon Blood
Plenty has been said regarding how lackluster this skill has become so I won't say much. However, adding a heal over time would go a long way toward fixing it. I also think this skill could be absorb the armor buffs of Spiked Armor to give it both a proactive (cast before fights for armor bonuses) and reactive (cast during fights for heals) component. That would then free up a skill slot in Draconic Power for something else--perhaps a stamina-based dps skill.

Elder Dragon Passive
I can't believe this skill didn't get a pass over. +5% health recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted is completely worthless. No one stacks health recovery. Solution: +2% Stamina and Magicka recovery per Draconic Power ability slotted.

I stack health recovery. Its like casting Dragon Blood every 2 seconds for free, and then I can cast Dragon Blood for even more health recovery.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

One change. "Battle spirit is now exclude health based heals and shields." Here you fixed dragon blood and igneous shield as well as templar shield.

This is the best idea I have ever heard!!!!

Would fix blazing shieild, igneous shield and dragon's blood. @ZOS_GinaBruno please pass this one on! These were the fixes I was looking for for both templar and DK.

• Dragon Blood only returns a percentage of your MISSING health so this one got hit really hard with the healing nerf unlike Breath of Life that can bring you to full in 3-4 casts even with the nerf.
• Health based damage shields also got nerfed hard because health was nerfed in 1.6 Having battle spirit ignore health based heals and shields is one way to do it.
• The other way would just be to make an exception for dragon's blood.

Either way, DK's are supposed to be able to self heal. It is part of the class identity. Please remove nerf on Dragon's blood. The ability is class-defining and not worth slotting in its current state

I totally agree with every thing you said. I only want to point out that Templar is casting BOL because we don't have any other mitigation with out Sun Sheild. Blinding Flashes was killed (and DKs suffer a similar nerf with Ash Cloud) but DK still has Reflect which by far out shines any other defense against projectiles, and spike which reflect physical damage.

Templars are suffering mitigation. And thank you for pointing you 3-4 cast of BOL (which is 12k magicka and no damage to the enemy at all.) Most people say 15-20k BOL as if that's what you get every time you press the button.

I think if they just nerfed the skill hardened ward to be 30-40% smaller and allowed shield to be free from Battle Spirit life would be (and would have been) much better.

No worries though. Sun Shield got a huge 1% boost per enemies hit. So watch out ... : / I'm going to have to dust of my magicka DK if I stick with ESO.

Grats on all the improvements all. Much deserved.

Parafrost wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Why unstable flame and burning breath are still flame damage?

troll comment. Avoid and keep threat constructive.

Troll comment? Can you explain why do you think like this?

Parafrost wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Why unstable flame and burning breath are still flame damage?

unstable flames is affected by weapon dmg. doesnt need to change. Same goes for burning breath.

That is why they should be changed to be either poison or physical.

Then they can remove the flame part and just call it unstable xD.. Stamina also affects the flame damage on it. works the same for Burning embers except its Magicka and spell damage.

Also the passives from Ardent flame boost flame and fire damage. 66% to burn effects and i think the other was a AOE fire boost of 6%. If those were physical and Poison they wouldn't get those passive buffs.

Essiaga wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

So far I'm fairly happy with most of the DK changes. The most important issue I'm still having is dragons blood, this ability is a percentage heal based on your missing health, there's no logical reason for battle spirit to effect that. As it stands now, the ability is literally a wasted slot on your bar that will heal the average player for ~5k from 1% HP... Please change it, I hate having to use a restoration staff...

Dragons Blood gets wrapped into the Battle Spirit healing nerf but it also would be buffed by the health buff so I'm torn there. The health buff really doesn't need to be there. What does health really do? Its just the amount of damage you can take before death (factoring mitigation of course). If they just decreased damage more then they wouldn't need the health buff and it would more fair.

Then decrease Hardened Ward shield by 30-40% and remove shield Debuff from Battle Spirit ... DK and Templar gets their shields back in PVP (increase there duration to 8-10sec). Then make shield not stack-able and most of the balance issues would be solved with out the update.

Of course if they were smart enough to balance PVE based on PVP in the first place then we wouldn't need Battle Spirit at all. Also soft/hard caps ...

This is what DCUO did for their game, and it revolutionized the game. The npc's were more interesting to fight because you had to block/interrupt/etc and timing mattered. I would love it if they applied something like this to ESO. Very insightful, and I think your solution about Battle Spirit is good, although I hesitate to see Sorcerer Tanks get their shield debuffed too heavily. Its a sticky situation, and this is why I think instead they should make all shields scale off health of the target (so this would apply to Ward Ally), but at the same time for Sorcerers they should make Crit Surge actually work vs. shields. Solve that problem and Sorcs can't complain about having no other mitigation, and they can't exist as stupendously mobile tank-cannons anymore. I think that would be a win win win win for everyone. If I had my way I would also suggest that they give bone shield a magica component to the shield as well (or at least offer it with a morph) and give a dumbed down version of cloak to the masses. In this way NB's could get a proper shield, and non-Nb's could cloak, essentially equalizing everyone.

Dragon blood just needs a hot attached to it.. Not vigor level of hot.. Since we get heals from other sources but something to take advantage of the incoming heal passive. The health recovery passive in that line needs to be changed to just a base amount for having an ability slotted. 20% for example would be a good number since nbs get 15% for free same with sorcs.

Stone fist is weird in that fossilize is better and the heal itself isn't super great... Should just make it an execute which would fill the gap.

Inferno is just not that great.. It's actually worse then it currently is on live with the new pts changes. It's the last ability in that tree and is a joke... I say make it a stacking dot similar to last gasp in rift.. Every time the target is healed it increases the dots strength up to 5 stacks then refreshes then they are healed.

It would be better if molten weapons retained its 40% bonus to heavy attacks, and then had igneus weapons provide major sorcery with that, and molten armaments would have major brutality added to it. I can gaurentee that the vast majority of stam dks will be using molten armaments over igneus weapons, and it would keep stam dks too reliant on two handed for rally's major brutality buff. Also I think molten armaments should be the morph that specifically gets the major brutality, as having your weapons on fire makes more sense for melee weapon users getting a weapon power bonus, than it does for someone using staves whose damage mostly comes from spells anyways.

Vangy wrote: »

Magicka dk changes are amazing. Gj zos.

However as a stam dk;

1. Igneous got a nerf that means 5% less healing.
2. I'd still pick molten over igneous even as a stam dk cos I can just get major brut from pots or rally
3. Meteors can't be reflected
4. Dragons blood is still ***
5. Inferno is still crap
6. Phy Defence added to tree means I'm gona do less damage
7. My damage is split between flame and physical while most magicka builds have their main damage coming from elemental expert only.
8. STILL NO LOVE FOR TANKS? it's like zos wants me to go DD.



So in short stam dk got a nerf while mag dk got their much needed buffs. I guess I'm rolling mag dk come thieves guild. Will be fun for sure!

1. 5 percent less healing and its one of the few skills we use.

2. Yes it conflicts with other skills but doesn't surpass them now we tanks have absolutely no execute they got hit the hardest.

3. Meteors cant be reflected, dodged, absorbed, its a cc, has only one counter.. block in which case you hold it up and jump around wait to be cc. That hurts us the most.

4. Dragons blood- heal 20 percent of missing health? not affected by the cyrodil battle spirit debut cause its off max hp and not max resource pool? we're desperate.

5. Inferno Suggestion! mage light will do the same plus offer a reduction in stealth attacks and reveal enemies from stealth in 12 meter radius cool mag dks will prefer that... Inferno instead launches a fireball. So make an unused ability from the mag DK and give it to us stamina DK's ...will scrape for the left overs

Suggestion: Inferno (stamina morph plz )"burn in the aura of a dragon" enemies around you will burn each second for 5 seconds in a radius of 8 meters(small Dot even if its only like 200 per second) flames will burn hidden enemies causing you to sense the sent of your flames preventing the enemy from returning to stealth for 5 seconds and increase your dragonly regen while in combat magicka, stamina, health, 15 percent for 30 seconds (other classes get a passive and this is a slot also to make it on par with pots) Enemies burned by the Flames will be struck down by your dragonly arua and weaken if low hp and will take increased damage from your attacks when less than 50 percent health for 12 seconds.

6. Physical defense added to the tree means ill do less damage, but sorc's have massive dps even with hardy they argue we did 15k take flights but we would have to be glass cannons in order that we would lose out on survivability while they do not and are able to stay out of range. So a stamina morph of stone fist scaling off max stamina and weapon damage... doesnt need to knock down instead set off balance to have some synergy with the bow like its probably inteaded.

7. Yep flame and physical split while magicka doesnt suffer from the same.

8. Yep they took away the only tank execute.