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A desperate plea for ZOS: Please remove Animation cancelling..
-
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Its cool, AC is getting neutered with the next update. So everyone who is defending it is going to be crying a river when TG expansion hits. You will no longer be able to completely cancel your animation, weaving will still be there, but complete cancellation of animations will no longer be possible.
Good on you ZoS.
Seems you misunderstand what's actually going to happen. The animation will just not be invisible, which mostly effects instant cast abilities in PVP. Players will not be locked into them if their 'cancelled' with proper timing. The animation will just play while the player is inputing another.
No. They specifically said they are going to make it so the entire animation has to play out in order for it to do damage. Weaving will be still there, but if you cancel the animation, it will not do damage. It must connect for it to do damage. It is a direct response to AC.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Its cool, AC is getting neutered with the next update. So everyone who is defending it is going to be crying a river when TG expansion hits. You will no longer be able to completely cancel your animation, weaving will still be there, but complete cancellation of animations will no longer be possible.
Good on you ZoS.
Seems you misunderstand what's actually going to happen. The animation will just not be invisible, which mostly effects instant cast abilities in PVP. Players will not be locked into them if their 'cancelled' with proper timing. The animation will just play while the player is inputing another.
No. They specifically said they are going to make it so the entire animation has to play out in order for it to do damage. Weaving will be still there, but if you cancel the animation, it will not do damage. It must connect for it to do damage. It is a direct response to AC.
So then weaving would be removed too. Weaving cancels the animation of light or heavy attacks with a skill, block, or bar swap. If the animation must play out in full for damage apply then that means no weaving either.
That is also not what ZOS said, that is what people continue to incorrectly interpret what they said as. As I stated if an animation must play out in full that means no weaving either. Which ZOS did specify would not being removed. It's a fix akin to how Cold Harbour Siege use to not show any firing animation and now it does. It's going to be that animations cannot be made invisible through canceling, that all. If you're expecting anything else you're going to be disappointed.3 -
Ethos_evos✭✭has anyone ever notice an increase in lag or FPS drop when you fight someone who is heavy on animation canceling? my two cents.PC NA/EbonheartPact2 -
mattymaats✭✭✭Ethos_evos wrote: »has anyone ever notice an increase in lag or FPS drop when you fight someone who is heavy on animation canceling? my two cents.
You've never thought that this is why big pvp fights lag? xD they no doubt did all their testing for large scale pvp fights with people attacking normally so imagine you suddenly put 3/4 times the amount of data against what they tested because of AC.
3 -
StihlReign✭✭✭✭✭As early players probably know, Animation Cancelling was never an intended combat mechanic. Back in the day you had skills such as the Nightblade's Haste (now Grim Focus) to buff the player with some extra Attackspeed to get some more Light/Heavyattacks going (it reduced the animationtime).
Zenimax just kind of "rolled" with it when people started (ab)using this, yet they kept focussing their combat around an animation-time mechanic.
I agree. In fact, the "enhanced" speed animation cancelling has introduced into ESO over time has ruined the intent of the game. ESO's combat is currently too fast and needs a speed reduction.
This would probably benefit PvP dramatically by reducing calculation stress and therefore - lag...
...not to mention frustrated players getting hit by abilities they never see.
Edited by StihlReign on February 3, 2016 6:07PM"O divine art of subtlety and secrecy!
Through you we learn to be invisible, through you inaudible; and hence we can hold the enemy’s fate in our hands.” – Ch. VI, v. 8-9. — Master Sun Tzu
"You haven't beaten me you've sacrificed sure footing for a killing stroke." — Ra's al Ghul
He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious — Master Sun Tzu
LoS3 -
JWillCHS✭✭✭I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Laranoye✭✭✭I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Literally everything in that comment is wrong. Thanks for the laugh though.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU2 -
RoamingRiverElk✭✭✭✭✭I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar4 -
Laranoye✭✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
When I said Zerg I should have possibly rephrased that as I just meant when someone stands there pounding on someone with about 5 things at once with no possible action for defense...
Yeah really works well...
Animations are required so the opponent knows how to defend/react... THAT'S where skill is not how much damage can be dished out at once....
It was an exploit and not supposed to happen. I dont care who people are or how good they are. It was a broken mechanic people played on...Edited by Laranoye on February 5, 2016 11:46AM1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Laranoye✭✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)
For my own good?! lol....
I realize they have only half fixed it... But the main thing is that they have actually done something about it, And now becasue you cant exploit your upset..
Now maybe you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation, oh noes!0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)
For my own good?! lol....
I realize they have only half fixed it... But the main thing is that they have actually done something about it, And now becasue you cant exploit your upset..
Now maybe you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation, oh noes!
ROTFLOLThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Laranoye✭✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)
For my own good?! lol....
I realize they have only half fixed it... But the main thing is that they have actually done something about it, And now becasue you cant exploit your upset..
Now maybe you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation, oh noes!
ROTFLOL
I fail to see the humor?
If they designed the game to instagib people, wouldn't everything be instant cast?.. The original idea was to have fair combat to be able to counter the other.. Not this ridiculousness.
If someone can explain to me how this is actually a game design and not an oversight i'm all ears... As it stands certain people just abuse this..2 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)
For my own good?! lol....
I realize they have only half fixed it... But the main thing is that they have actually done something about it, And now becasue you cant exploit your upset..
Now maybe you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation, oh noes!
Dude I was testing it out yesterday and animation cancelling wasn't even "half fixed". It still pumps out the same amount of DPS. Why? Because they don't want to "fix" it, they just want to make it easier for slower people like yourself to detect what's going on.3 -
AddictionX✭✭✭✭If macros were not a problem and an actual ban offense... then it would be fine. I know what you're saying it would force people to actually use different skills..Edited by AddictionX on February 5, 2016 2:43PM2 -
Laranoye✭✭✭Dude I was testing it out yesterday and animation cancelling wasn't even "half fixed". It still pumps out the same amount of DPS. Why? Because they don't want to "fix" it, they just want to make it easier for slower people like yourself to detect what's going on.
Yeah because too many people like you will cry, youl have to play properly after getting used to doing this.AddictionX wrote: »If macros were not a problem and an actual ban offense... then it would be fine. I know what you're saying it would force people to actually use different skills..
Exactly
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RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The biggest issue with the game and Ac is this:
when the game came out we had soft caps. The soft cap system was put in place of a cooldown system and resource management would act as its own cooldown system.
Then they brought in the Champion System which removed their cooldown system(softcaps) thus resource management no longer matters.
Address these issues by bringing back softcaps and i think AC solves itself....just my 2 cents.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak1 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
All they "fixed" is how it looks for people complaining about the visuals. The ability to "instagib" is the same. The vast majority of abilities are instant cast.... And the ability to cancel your own animations to roll or block is the ability to counter.RoamingRiverElk wrote: »I played ESO during the closed beta and at launch. I do remember some very tactical and intense battles with individuals in a 1-on-1 situation when people used the combat system as intended. And that was from a variety of builds.
I know how to animation cancel today, but it is just another thing about the Elder Scrolls Online that shows you how inexperience ZoS was at creating massive multiplayer online role playing games. One of the core aspects of your game is incomplete.
When I returned to ESO I couldn't really understand how certain people were doing tons of damage to me in and shorter period of time. I mistakenly ran across tons of tutorial videos on Youtube about animation canceling.
The entire time I was thinking how is this a thing even after a year and half of the game being released?
I understand there's complications and I do know that ZoS can't do much about it. Like many it rubs me the wrong way. But those who use it heavily are afraid that their character will become obsolete because now the game plays like it's suppose to?
I don't understand the argument other than you like to win.
There's two main reasons not to remove animation cancelling from my perspective:
1.) It allows for more different actions to be performed in the same amount of time, adding build diversity and a layer of skill in combat.
2.) With the power creep since launch you wouldn't get the fights you had back then by removing animation cancelling. We have way more resources now, at launch we had the low softcaps. No one is going to die if all you do spam Force Shock. Plus, who would not just spam the single hardest hitting skill he has access to? Wrecking Blow. Everyone.
No it doesn't take skill to animation cancel.. Whats the point on ability animations if the intent was just to zerg people instantly skipping them?
Basically people who "exploit" (coz lets face it is an exploit) animation canceling dont want animations and just to cause as much damage in as little time possible..
How the hell can you balance game around that? By that philosophy every should have instant attacks and all the same... Yeah because the game will not get repetitive real fast then....
You people are just crying now because you have to play fairly..
Animation canceling often means timing the activation of the attacks correctly - like with the basic light attack - crushing shock weaving. If you don't activate the skills at the right time, you can't do it well. Some skills cannot be canceled too soon - like the storm atronach ultimate, or it will not be activated at all.
People who zerg are the least likely people I would expect to animation cancel. It's the gankers, duelers and people who regularly play outnumbered who do it. It is likely that good gankers animation cancel, but not all good players who animation cancel are gankers or do 'one-shot' builds which cannot be prevented by knowing the meta, the opponent and counters to that player's playstyle.
It is not an exploit, it is a gameplay mechanic that has been embraced by the developers of this game. Animation canceling is not done solely to cause as much damage in as little time as possible. For instance, you can use Igneous Shield as a dk and cancel that with a dodge roll. Both actions are purely defensive.
Because there is a way to cancel skills with a dodge roll, for instance, that means there is *more* room for variability because you can react to an incoming attack with a dodge roll when you need it - as long as your build allows for it (i.e. if you have enough stamina to do so in that combat scenario). Item sets or skills that boost light or heavy attacks would be much worse if you could not weave light/heavy attacks with skills.
Torelax is actually someone who plays very fairly.
So please, stop making assumptions and find out about things before you speak.
Yes, so that's why they actually fixed it? Because it was intended right? ....
[...]
Because they didn't... for your own good, just stop commenting in this thread. x)
For my own good?! lol....
I realize they have only half fixed it... But the main thing is that they have actually done something about it, And now becasue you cant exploit your upset..
Now maybe you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation, oh noes!
ROTFLOL
I fail to see the humor?
If they designed the game to instagib people, wouldn't everything be instant cast?.. The original idea was to have fair combat to be able to counter the other.. Not this ridiculousness.
If someone can explain to me how this is actually a game design and not an oversight i'm all ears... As it stands certain people just abuse this..
But i was laughing mostly at "you'l have to actually learn your abilities and a proper rotation", because if you are animation canceling then you have learned your abilities to such a fine and detailed point that you know exactly how they work. You know also to very exacting detail how other abilities interract with them. Animation canceling is not macroing. And "a proper rotation" is just delicious irony.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!2 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Its cool, AC is getting neutered with the next update. So everyone who is defending it is going to be crying a river when TG expansion hits. You will no longer be able to completely cancel your animation, weaving will still be there, but complete cancellation of animations will no longer be possible.
Good on you ZoS.
Seems you misunderstand what's actually going to happen. The animation will just not be invisible, which mostly effects instant cast abilities in PVP. Players will not be locked into them if their 'cancelled' with proper timing. The animation will just play while the player is inputing another.
No. They specifically said they are going to make it so the entire animation has to play out in order for it to do damage. Weaving will be still there, but if you cancel the animation, it will not do damage. It must connect for it to do damage. It is a direct response to AC.
That doesn't make sense. Weaving isn't weaving unless BOTH the ability AND the weapon attack are doing damage.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
bhlegit✭✭✭ac is not broken mechanic if you hate it you need to l2p
zos please dont let this change go live
#freeanimationcancelling
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Therium104✭✭✭Animation canceling really helps out NB and gankers. I am not saying I don't use on my DK but not the samething. Many of the insta-gib stuff in pvp is due to this. It needs to be looked at. A low skill class (NB) is abusing it to kill players in a few seconds. Where you at ZOS. Lol0
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭Therium104 wrote: »Animation canceling really helps out NB and gankers. I am not saying I don't use on my DK but not the samething. Many of the insta-gib stuff in pvp is due to this. It needs to be looked at. A low skill class (NB) is abusing it to kill players in a few seconds. Where you at ZOS. Lol
Perhaps you'd come across as more believably if you actually gave examples of WTH you're even talking about...
The best ganking combos aren't even exclusive to NBs. It's Bow Heavy Attacks paired with Camo Hunter, and either Silver Bolts or Poison Injection. Thanks to Molten Weapons DKs are actually better at that sort of opener than NBs. Then guess what...come TG it'll hit even harder. Mage's Light will proc Empower again and since Igneous Weapons will give Major Brutality. DKs can run Bow/DW and weapon swap before that hits you for even more damage thanks to DW. But hey, you go on thinking NBs are the ganking scourge of Cyrodiil.1 -
Ytterin✭✭Personally I detest AC, but it likely isn't going anywhere. The devs got flamed hard for 'clunky' animations without it, and it came about due to their fix for that. I consider it nothing but extra buttons to do anything competitively.
In short, I've resigned myself to enjoying what I enjoy in the game without being competitive because I don't like AC (I can do it, but it annoys me.) If I did not have people I enjoyed playing with in this manner, I would be long gone. I fully expect to spend more time on other games that are in development so long as they do not have a similar setup. I know a rather large number of people who left over AC specifically.
Just my advice here, but if you don't like it keep an eye out for your next game. I would love to support ESO for a number of reasons, and I do like the things they are doing well, but AC is driving me to do exactly that.
That's the way things are... and where I could wish the devs would change it they haven't seemed interested despite complaints from a multitude of people for a long time. Probably not worth wasting any more time complaining, to be honest.Edited by Ytterin on February 12, 2016 3:50AM0
