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Zos, any plans to nerf Nightblades? This is getting absurd...
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lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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Make a poll about which class people kill most, and the result will look about the same. (Probably even more votes for nbs).BalticBlues wrote: »
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Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭With 4200 weapon damage (3x agility, 5x hunding, Kena, WD on all jewelery, rally buffed, WD enchant proc'd), my NB's average surprise attack crit against players is 6k, give or take 500. With Empower and Death Stroke 20% going, it is possible to reach 10k. However, for me to ambush > surprise attack to use the empower, I'm not canceling a light attack with the surprise attack (light attacks crit 2.5-3.5k on average) so it's a wash and I typically opt for the light attack instead.
With Wrecking Blow and the same conditions, I hit around 50% harder on average - this is with ~200 less weapon damage using 2her. The highest I've landed on a player (empower and death stroke 20%) is 16k.
With Snipe and ~400 weapon damage lower, an average crit is ~8k and I've seen as high as 13k in optimal conditions.
Players who have ~23k hp or higher are far harder to burst down than the ones who run around with 16-18k, since that extra buffer gives them enough padding to go on the defensive and recover. I firmly believe that HP needs to return to the 1.5x instead of 1.1x mag/stam that it is now. I'd like to see a player with ZERO investment in HP have 20k or so with cyrodiil buff, and your average balanced build to have 28-30k.
The root of the huge damage problem, IMO, is that modifiers like empower and death stroke (molten weapons, might of the guild etc) are multiplicative modifiers to the final damage value, and can REALLY jack the damage up when you have high base damage. This is a problem for all classes, not just NBs, as we've all seen the 13k+ frags/flares and 20k DK heavy attacks. I think this would really anger some people, but I would like to see all of these % bonuses apply ONLY to the base weapon damage granted by your weapons. If you are getting 1500 weapon damage from your DW, or 1400 from your 2her, it would apply the 20%/40% whatever to THAT value, to be used in calculation that determines your final damage, rather than modifying the final damage value. This alone would bring all of my "big shot" hits below 10k damage when stacking damage modifiers.
Make the base HP change and change the way damage modifiers work and you'll have a much more balanced combat system to begin with, and it will allow more precise balancing of classes.
Edited by Kutsuu on December 13, 2015 3:03PMPC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB4 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »I have never seen a 10k SA in PVP (do you wear any armour or are you in a wedding dress). Most hit for 3-6k and 7-8k is very high. I play Sorc, Stamblade and DK and almost never get oneshotted unshielded at about 20k HP or even less. Players can only oneshot me out of stealth if they proc camo hunter and/or if I'm on my Vamp NB.
This seems to be a l2p issue tbh. There are some builds that can possibly pull off that high damage but those builds will have very low sustain and they will die fast if their first burst fails. It's a very situational build and fine imo.
I play stamblade a lot (iirc 28k stamina, 4k weapon damage, 2200 stam regen and 20k health). As a solo running stamblade you rely on that first burst out of stealth. If that fails a player on the same skill level has a good chance on killing you. Playing Stamblade requires very good movement, situational awareness and resource management in a straight up fight and you are very squishy. One crystal frag or WB hit of a player that knows what he is doing and you're done. Cloaking away is always an option of course, but most competent players have potions.
You will also have to rely on vigor/rally for heal and have to access to any shields. Making mistakes is definitely not as harsh on my Sorc.
As I play Sorc and DK also I know that if you survive the first burst Stamblades are very manageable in 1v1 situations. if you are 2v1 against a Stamblade he does not stand a chance, has to cloak and run or die. Sorcs and dks do a lot better in straight up fights.
I have no experience as a templar, but I know that they can very annoying on my stamblade. BoL to full life constantly I can't dish out enough damage to kill him. If the temp is good I will run out of stam and will have to cloak away.
It's all very situational.
Playing stamblade requires NOTHING to do well in pvv. Not even top gear. Just hit 3-4 buttons and you're gonna win 90% of your encounters.
This is so much BS!.
Now I know you are a troll.
LOL. We can do a poll asking which class is the easiest to play. You wouldn't be surprised by the results
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BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Correct. Because NBs now are gods in PvP, most people play them.lolo_01b16_ESO wrote: »Make a poll about which class people kill most,
and the result will look about the same.
This trend will continue, until ZOS cuts back invisibility and instagibs to a healthy level.
NBs will not like these nerfs, but otherwise there soon will be no other classes in PvP anymore.
Edited by BalticBlues on December 13, 2015 3:14PM1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭
yep because the 30% selfheal increasement it provides was never fixed for whatever reason when they changed tooltips so it only affect healing ritual.I have np with nightblades i just don't get how can some of them pull off the absurd numbers.
I have a stamina and magicka NB, my stamblade has 4.1k weapon damage - yet i've never recalled hitting anyone for 10k+ with ambush or surprise attack from stealth. Yet i get hit that constantly, how much more damage can you stack to pull it off? And this is with maces/mauls, both dual weild and 2handed with sharpened+CP.
If your at 4.1k weapon damage you surprise attack should be hitting for 9-10k. From stealth, add in 10% more bonus.
Buffed up weapon damage for me I get just below 4k and mine hits for 9675 in the tooltip.
10k cyro dmg requires a 20k tooltip value... goodluck finding 11k while you upgrade from barely under 4k to 4.1k...
Not really, since a crit on an nb has a 1.6 modifier. So an 10k tooltip will crit for 11k in cyro, even more from stealth with extra stealth bonuses.
nope
10k*0.5(cyro debuff)*1.6(critmultiplier)=8k for a 10k hit you actually need a 12,5 tooltip wich is still without significant dedication into weapondmg (2x molag kena+ briarheart+hundings e.g.) not possible but than you have a setup completly useless outside of a super tiny circumstance...
Funny that because my 11k BoL tooltip provides a 12k crit heal, or a 16k heal with purifying up.
What are you talking about?
My breath of life tooltip value is 11k. It crit heals in pvp for 12k, if I use purifying ritual for the 30% gain it goes up to 16k odd. It's all working correctly.
My point was that an 10k suprise attack tooltip will hit for 10k if it crits in pvp0 -
lolo_01b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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If your opponent is naked yes, if he has decent gear no. Even with 50% armour penetration and 501cp your 10k tooltip would crit for ~7k against me.
yep because the 30% selfheal increasement it provides was never fixed for whatever reason when they changed tooltips so it only affect healing ritual.I have np with nightblades i just don't get how can some of them pull off the absurd numbers.
I have a stamina and magicka NB, my stamblade has 4.1k weapon damage - yet i've never recalled hitting anyone for 10k+ with ambush or surprise attack from stealth. Yet i get hit that constantly, how much more damage can you stack to pull it off? And this is with maces/mauls, both dual weild and 2handed with sharpened+CP.
If your at 4.1k weapon damage you surprise attack should be hitting for 9-10k. From stealth, add in 10% more bonus.
Buffed up weapon damage for me I get just below 4k and mine hits for 9675 in the tooltip.
10k cyro dmg requires a 20k tooltip value... goodluck finding 11k while you upgrade from barely under 4k to 4.1k...
Not really, since a crit on an nb has a 1.6 modifier. So an 10k tooltip will crit for 11k in cyro, even more from stealth with extra stealth bonuses.
nope
10k*0.5(cyro debuff)*1.6(critmultiplier)=8k for a 10k hit you actually need a 12,5 tooltip wich is still without significant dedication into weapondmg (2x molag kena+ briarheart+hundings e.g.) not possible but than you have a setup completly useless outside of a super tiny circumstance...
Funny that because my 11k BoL tooltip provides a 12k crit heal, or a 16k heal with purifying up.
What are you talking about?
My breath of life tooltip value is 11k. It crit heals in pvp for 12k, if I use purifying ritual for the 30% gain it goes up to 16k odd. It's all working correctly.
My point was that an 10k suprise attack tooltip will hit for 10k if it crits in pvp0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Requesting nerfs which will just continue the endless cycle of QQ instead of asking for buffs to the other classes which will make everyone happy
Especially since, like it was mantioned, many players rerolled a NB and it would've been a waste of their time.
Boost DK, Sorcs and Temps and be done with it. Stop the NB QQ
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]Edited by ZOS_Alex on December 13, 2015 7:23PM"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU2 -
Barlthump✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »Most people run around with 20k hp in Cyrodiil. New sets will come, cp cap will be increased this is only gonna get worse. Ambush + Surprise attack can be done in less than 1 second. 10k each and ive seen people hit harder. All this with 50% dmg reduction. Even if you survive that all it takes to kill you is fear + ult and you're good to go. So, any plans to nerf this class or you want to keep the easy mode in this game's pvp? I should just leave this game I don't have the time to lvl up a NB and laugh at everyone in pvp. This is not balance this is stupidity.
And please if all you want to do here is ''l2p scrub'' save your words. This class is taking away all the fun I had in this game. I wanna run around solo? get ambushed to death by 3 nb gankers. Wanna farm sewers? As soon as im low in health 3 nbs come to execute me, they fail? No problem just dissapear and wait until im low in health again.
Dude it's a stealth class that can only do one shot bursts. I'm a nightblade and I'm sick of these posts. Do you have any idea how hard it is to pve with a stam nightblade and be half as efficient as a sorc? People literally don't do vicp runs for the sets cause guess what? Sorc sets don't drop there. Nerfing the damage of these 2 skills will eventually kill nightblades and pve and totally ruin their pvp. I mean think for a second before you start hammering down the nerfs. You died to a 3 man gank. Do you really want to make this game a magicka only based game?
Well boys time to level up a robe class and join elder robes online. Luckily they gonna remove VR caps. Just have to deal with one more dlc and hello FOTM classes. Oh I mean Sorcs all dlc cause no one wants a damn stamina class in pve anymore.0 -
pelennor_fields✭✭✭Leave the sorcs alone.. Leave the NB's alone... Show the other two classes some love. And for the love of god quit banging the nerf drum everytime you get whacked.
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Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭pelennor_fields wrote: »Leave the sorcs alone.. Leave the NB's alone... Show the other two classes some love. And for the love of god quit banging the nerf drum everytime you get whacked.
See that? this guys here reached Enlightenment
+1 awesome"Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU0 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »Most people run around with 20k hp in Cyrodiil. New sets will come, cp cap will be increased this is only gonna get worse. Ambush + Surprise attack can be done in less than 1 second. 10k each and ive seen people hit harder. All this with 50% dmg reduction. Even if you survive that all it takes to kill you is fear + ult and you're good to go. So, any plans to nerf this class or you want to keep the easy mode in this game's pvp? I should just leave this game I don't have the time to lvl up a NB and laugh at everyone in pvp. This is not balance this is stupidity.
And please if all you want to do here is ''l2p scrub'' save your words. This class is taking away all the fun I had in this game. I wanna run around solo? get ambushed to death by 3 nb gankers. Wanna farm sewers? As soon as im low in health 3 nbs come to execute me, they fail? No problem just dissapear and wait until im low in health again.
Analyzing that picture, I can say with pretty certainty that the ambush was a sneak atk, those can crit for 10k and the surprise atk after was also a crit + the 20% added dmg after an ambush. Also the nbs build here is probably built for burst and very little sustain. That also has its weakness.
Posting this picture asking for a general nb nerf is bad tactic.
PC EU
PvP only1 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »SemiD4rkness wrote: »I have never seen a 10k SA in PVP (do you wear any armour or are you in a wedding dress). Most hit for 3-6k and 7-8k is very high. I play Sorc, Stamblade and DK and almost never get oneshotted unshielded at about 20k HP or even less. Players can only oneshot me out of stealth if they proc camo hunter and/or if I'm on my Vamp NB.
This seems to be a l2p issue tbh. There are some builds that can possibly pull off that high damage but those builds will have very low sustain and they will die fast if their first burst fails. It's a very situational build and fine imo.
I play stamblade a lot (iirc 28k stamina, 4k weapon damage, 2200 stam regen and 20k health). As a solo running stamblade you rely on that first burst out of stealth. If that fails a player on the same skill level has a good chance on killing you. Playing Stamblade requires very good movement, situational awareness and resource management in a straight up fight and you are very squishy. One crystal frag or WB hit of a player that knows what he is doing and you're done. Cloaking away is always an option of course, but most competent players have potions.
You will also have to rely on vigor/rally for heal and have to access to any shields. Making mistakes is definitely not as harsh on my Sorc.
As I play Sorc and DK also I know that if you survive the first burst Stamblades are very manageable in 1v1 situations. if you are 2v1 against a Stamblade he does not stand a chance, has to cloak and run or die. Sorcs and dks do a lot better in straight up fights.
I have no experience as a templar, but I know that they can very annoying on my stamblade. BoL to full life constantly I can't dish out enough damage to kill him. If the temp is good I will run out of stam and will have to cloak away.
It's all very situational.
Playing stamblade requires NOTHING to do well in pvv. Not even top gear. Just hit 3-4 buttons and you're gonna win 90% of your encounters.
This is so much BS!.
Now I know you are a troll.
LOL. We can do a poll asking which class is the easiest to play. You wouldn't be surprised by the results
Question is do you know how to play any class?
I bet you just plain suck at all of them.
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Abob✭✭✭SemiD4rkness wrote: »Here we go again another nerf thread started by a player and others that just can't deal with the Nightblades in PvP. Learn how to play against them or leave PvP. Nightblades are not OP. The ones that are doing you in are skilled PvP'ers who know the Nightblade class and how to play it. Nightblases are stealth and ambush characters. They rely on surprise. They watch for the lone player or the ones that are lagging behind a main group. I know I play a Nightblade. If you travel alone in Cyrodiil the Sewers or IC then you are falling into their trap and that is completely your fault.
So we shouldn't be able to play solo just because of one stupid op class? Sounds fair.
I play a stamplar and ALWAYS go solo in IC and since CP cap I haven't met one nightblade I could'nt kill. Just play smart and find a better build.1 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭Have you tried rooting the NB and beating him down with your 4 scrubby friends? That's what people do to me lol1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Better have a look in the mirror before posting insults in this forum.You guys are dumb
As posted before, no class boost would help surviving an invisible NBs instagib attack.Boost DK, Sorcs and Temps and be done with it.
You even die within 1 sec with 50% points in health and 7 pieces of V16 legendary heavy armor.
So what is the use of HA in this game at all?
If NBs attack from stealth, there is hardly any difference between going naked or in HA.
HA is a joke. The entire game seems optimized to help NBs kill from invisibility.
So what would be better and more efficient?
Buffing of all other classes, buffing of armor and changing the entire system?
Or nerfing the one OP class that currently rules the PvP world?
Before ZOS introduces an arena, they have a lot of work to do...
Edited by BalticBlues on December 13, 2015 6:34PM1 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Better have a look in the mirror before posting insults in this forum.You guys are dumb
As posted before, no class boost would help surviving an invisible NBs instagib attack.Boost DK, Sorcs and Temps and be done with it.
You even die within 1 sec with 50% points in health and 7 pieces of V16 legendary heavy armor.
So what is the use of HA in this game at all?
If NBs attack from stealth, there is hardly any difference between going naked or in HA.
HA is a joke. The entire game seems optimized to help NBs kill from invisibility.
So what would be better and more efficient?
Buffing of all other classes, buffing of armor and changing the entire system?
Or nerfing the one OP class that currently rules the PvP world?
Before ZOS introduces an arena, they have a lot of work to do...
What system do you play on? I only ask because i'd love to follow you around instagibbing you until you come back here. Anyone else feel the same?>I'll do it on my DK for good measureEdited by Catblade on December 13, 2015 6:37PM0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"We want the game to feel less like a shooter and more like an MMORPG so we're reducing the damage you take in Cyrodiil by another 30%" → Increases how much weapon damage you can stack to levels that effectively leave the Battle Spirit dmg reduction unchanged.
This is the EPIC TRUTH that ZOS continues to ignore! Heals and Shields need to be restored to 100% effectiveness in order to deal with the increased damage.
Edited by Emma_Overload on December 13, 2015 6:47PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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You are a true hero. Like the NB heros in their IC Youtube streams,i'd love to follow you around instagibbing you
running around invisible, instagibbing people, robbing them, calling them noobs.
There is literally not any skill involved. They just farm players like zombies.
If this would not be an Elder Scrolls game, you NB heros would have to play with yourself.
But at some point, you probably will. There are already about 70% nightblades in OP god mode.
If ZOS continues like that, soon enough PvP will be all yours.
+1Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Heals and Shields need to be restored to 100% effectiveness in order to deal with the increased damage.
And please let Heavy Armor have a meaning again instead of just good looks.
Edited by BalticBlues on December 13, 2015 6:54PM3 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
You are a true hero. Like the NB heros in their IC Youtube streams,i'd love to follow you around instagibbing you
running around invisible, instagibbing people, robbing them, calling them noobs.
There is literally not any skill involved. They just farm players like zombies.
If this would not be an Elder Scrolls game, you NB heros would have to play with yourself.
But at some point, you probably will. There are already about 70% nightblades in OP god mode.
If ZOS continues like that, soon enough PvP will be all yours.
+1Emma_Eunjung wrote: »Heals and Shields need to be restored to 100% effectiveness in order to deal with the increased damage.
And please let Heavy Armor have a meaning again instead of just good looks.
I told you i'd do it on my DK. either stop crying or go out and get a dress0 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭man this is one heck of a long thread.
you all DO realize that Nightblades are going to get demolished (Nerf-wise)when Arenas come out, right?0 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭man this is one heck of a long thread.
you all DO realize that Nightblades are going to get demolished (Nerf-wise)when Arenas come out, right?
If it happens i'm taking sorc with me. I may just fire up a half dozen nerf radiant destruction threads on my alt accounts to spite you.Edited by Catblade on December 13, 2015 7:02PM0 -
Tryxus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Better have a look in the mirror before posting insults in this forum.You guys are dumb
As posted before, no class boost would help surviving an invisible NBs instagib attack.Boost DK, Sorcs and Temps and be done with it.
You even die within 1 sec with 50% points in health and 7 pieces of V16 legendary heavy armor.
So what is the use of HA in this game at all?
If NBs attack from stealth, there is hardly any difference between going naked or in HA.
HA is a joke. The entire game seems optimized to help NBs kill from invisibility.
So what would be better and more efficient?
Buffing of all other classes, buffing of armor and changing the entire system?
Or nerfing the one OP class that currently rules the PvP world?
Before ZOS introduces an arena, they have a lot of work to do...
When I look in the mirror, I see a person of keen insight and someone who's not killing this game by yelling "nerf" the entire time.
And if you actually think about it (for some ppl thinking is hard ikr) NB are supposed to be the OHKO Invisible guys since they are the assassins of this game. The Class Boosts are needed to make every class do their own jobs better like we are doing now. DK more tankier and being the battlefield controllers in Cyrodiil, Templars being the healers and supporters, Sorcs the ranged DPSers,...
Better? Buffing all the classes except NB
Less QQ that way. Prob only from ppl who fail to see beyond their own death recaps
And as said before: No Class rules Cyrodiil
And if you fail to see that... there are worse things than simply being called dumb."Stand strong, stay true and shelter all."
Tryxus - Guardian of the Green - Warden - PC/EU1 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't you see that the only one "crying" is you?Emma_Eunjung wrote: »stop crying
The OP made a statement, and from this followed a discussion.
Then come some heros, bringing in insults.
Insulting is "crying". Helpless crying because you do not have arguments.
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SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭man this is one heck of a long thread.
you all DO realize that Nightblades are going to get demolished (Nerf-wise)when Arenas come out, right?
Just like it should. Buff to both magicka and stamina templars, buff magicka DK, buff stam sorc and nerf to shield stacking and HUGE nerf to NBs.0 -
SemiD4rkness✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »
Don't you see that the only one "crying" is you?Emma_Eunjung wrote: »stop crying
The OP made a statement, and from this followed a discussion.
Then come some heros, bringing in insults.
Insulting is "crying". Helpless crying because you do not have arguments.
We have all accepted HUGE nerfs to our classes. Seems like NBs are allergic to them... Why is it so hard to accept that they have to get nerfed?0 -
JMadFour✭✭✭✭✭
my only VR-level character is a Nightblade.
fact is, Arena is going to lay bare every real, true, class balance issue this game has. it won't be a matter of arguing back and forth on the forums, and OPness will not be defensible in the first like 6 months of Arena.
every class is going to get demolished, NB and Sorc most of all.
prepare for massive nerfs.Edited by JMadFour on December 13, 2015 7:11PM0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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That was my first thought too, but:you all DO realize that Nightblades are going to get demolished (Nerf-wise)when Arenas come out, right?
Did ZOS anything to make vMA viable for DKs?
vMA is as unbalanced as PvP, and they released it anyway.
So what would happen if they just release Arenas with the current balance mess?
Probably not much. The 70% PvP NB world would batter their skulls in delight,
and the rest of the world would stay away from it, as it does now in PvP.
Edited by BalticBlues on December 13, 2015 7:16PM0 -
Catblade✭✭✭✭
my only VR-level character is a Nightblade.
fact is, Arena is going to lay bare every real, true, class balance issue this game has. it won't be a matter of arguing back and forth on the forums, and OPness will not be defensible in the first like 6 months of Arena.
every class is going to get demolished, NB and Sorc most of all.
prepare for massive nerfs.
Only because crybabies who won't learn counters. If you play a vet NB then you know it's not some god roaming around deciding who lives and who dies. The class is squishy and in stamina form, lacks self heals. On my templar though, the class OP plays and feels is so weak. I can be like a god. Stand there self healing jabs, self heals with BOL, then radiant destruction after initial burst and GG. No skill required whatsoever i can just stand there and tank dmg. OP is just being a baby. Only class that gives me trouble is magika sorc and go equip shieldbreaker and ggEdited by Catblade on December 13, 2015 7:16PM0
This discussion has been closed.