Templar issues thread

AfkNinja · December 2015

@ZOS_GinaBruno has requested we consolidate all Templar issues into one thread so ZOS can review and prepare for the next rebalancing patch in Q1 of 2016. Please post all issues you have noticed with the Templar class regarding bugs, under performing skills and passives and general balance issues with the class. I will start by adding a post that has been shared around by Templar's a few times. Would love to have some feedback added by our Templar community.

Springt-Über-Zwerge wrote: »
@ZOS_GinaBruno is there also a fix for these bugs and completely useless abilities?

1. No 140% bonus on shields for jabs and sweeps.
2. Last hit of Jabs somtimes doesnt hit
3. no execute damage for Jesus beam when multiple Templars are in group.
4. Radiant sweep not hitting anything at all (also 5m radius for an ultimade is ridiculous)
5. eclipse bug (Eclipse sometimes does not function?)
6. global cooldown on toppling charge (Doubt they fix this)
7. completely useless sun shield (Scaling on HP is too low resulting in a PVP shield to small to be worthwhile.)
8. completely useless backlash due to cap not scaling with spell/weapondamage
9. completely useless eclipse thanks to unnessesary nerf to 1 taget
10. completely useless rite of passage thanks to barrier being 100 times better
11. completely useless healing ritual
12. completely useless radiant aura thanks to potion buffs
13. why is sun fire doing firedamage as only templar skill which forces me to either not use the skill because its crap since its missing the 25% from thaumaturge or put points in elemetal expert and weakening all my other abilities
14. Stamplar getting no healing bonuses resulting in a loss of class identity

Now to passives:

1. lower proc chance of burning light than 25% has been reported
2. ballanced warrior being everything else than ballanced (missing spelldamage)
3. enduring rays lowering some templar dps skills (backlash)
4. light weaver being completely useless thanks to rite of passage and healing ritual being useless
5. master ritualist soulgem return bugged
6. missing ressource sustain for Templars in the passives 4% is laughable (sorcs for excample have 5% plus 15% ult cost reduction plus 20% magicka and stam regen)

And why on earth would you double nerf blazing spear I cant see any logic in nerfing the dps of the class with the lowest dps

also give us back a good aoe CC like blinding flashes

Please post any issues you have noticed below!

myrrrorb14_ESO · December 2015

Hate that pause after toppling charge.

Why is healing ritual useless?

AfkNinja · December 2015

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Hate that pause after toppling charge.

Why is healing ritual useless?

Useless was not my words but 2 second cast time, no one uses it for this reason. Breath of Life is instant and only heals slightly less. Even less reason for stamplar to use it cause it's slow, expensive and weak without heavy magic investment.

Edit: Healing from Sweeps also does not work on shields. lol

AfkNinja · December 2015

Wish I could edit the OP.

@Springt-Über-Zwerge
@EgoRush
@zornyan
@Joy_Division
@dodgehopper_ESO
@Alcast

Tag Templar's to this thread please. I know I missed a lot.

Animal_Mother · December 2015

We've done this song and dance before...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p1

Why have another thread, when all ZOS had to do was not send the old thread into oblivion?

Edit: I think Templar problems are more than just the skills. Some of our issues range from hybrids not being viable, lack of clear vision from the game designers on our role, to the utter lack of urgency/respect/empathy from the devs about our issues.

Cryhavoc · December 2015

I know it's tough (we need some mathematicians in this thread) but let's try to be as factual as possible

Tag @blabafat

AfkNinja · December 2015

Animal_Mother wrote: »

We've done this song and dance before...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p1

Why have another thread, when all ZOS had to do was not send the old thread into oblivion?

I had a direct request from ZOS_GinaBruno to compile our issues for the Devs to review. It's worth a shot!

zornyan · December 2015

@AfkNinja I've made a specific thread for gina concerning sweeps too and talked through all the issue with that skill, let's keep it up guys we NEED this issues attended too.

Ninja do you have a pc eu account?

Got an ep or ad friends / alts? Would love to meet up and try to record some footage between us to actually show the devs what's going on

AfkNinja · December 2015

@Zornan Unfortunately I only have a NA PS4 account at the moment. My PC crapped out awhile ago.

Mostly play AD but I do have a Vet 2 I think Magplar on EP.

Spacemonkey · December 2015

-> Either increase range of the rune or make it follow - It used to be great coupled with the FG defense circle pre-1.6 but we can"t overbuff D and mitigate dmg to the point of being able to stand in one spot anymore. So it makes it kindof useless.

AfkNinja · December 2015

Spacemonkey wrote: »

-> Either increase range of the rune or make it follow - It used to be great coupled with the FG defense circle pre-1.6 but we can"t overbuff D and mitigate dmg to the point of being able to stand in one spot anymore. So it makes it kindof useless.

Good point! Standing still often results in getting cloberstomped. ZOS needs to reconsider Channeled Focus, let it move with us OR give us a real reason to stand still....it's not even better than other class armors it's the same armor bonus just with a small mana regen attached.

Arciris · December 2015

Greetings everyone!

I have been playing a Templar as main since beta (alpha) phase and got one to v10 (max level in PTS pre-launch) without grinds. Currently, I have a v16 Tankplar (got bored of healing) in NA and a v14 Temp in EU.
This is just to show how much I like the class theme.
I will start to give an example that everyone will understand (I hope): Gandalf should never be a better sword wielder than Aragorn, nor should Aragorn be a better archer than Legolas or Frodo be a better magician than Gandalf, etc...
Therefore, when picking a Templar, I never expected to be able to pull the exact same dps numbers a dps class has - with Templar skills at least.
However, I did expect to be best at healing/support and second best at tanking. But even this doesn't happen and why?
Because the "be good at everything" philosophy (that I actually love about ESO) quickly became "be excellent at everything" for all classes except Templar. DK's suffered a serious nerf, but NB's and Sorc's still benefit from the "be excellent at everything" - this is why I'm leveling a crafter Sorc I have to become my main, and even tank with him

for group content.
So what is it, outside DPS, that those 2 classes have that Templar doesn't?

1. Resource Management: only passive towards this a Templar gets is 4% cost reduction for everything, while NB's and Sorc get bigger cost reduction and/or insane regens and/or max stats making them, if they are skilled, possibly better healers/support/tanks than Templars. Of course this works for DPS as well: even with both bars filled with non-class skills, Templars will need to spend more CP's in regen/cost reduction stars which means less points available to increase damage.
2. Mobility and speed.
a) Our only mobility skill is broken apparently beyond repair and, in my opinion, should be removed entirely and replaced with that move NPC's have in Orsinium (drool)
b) A lot of our skills are channeled or have cast times thus making us the turtle in a rabbit's race.
3. Defensive skills. Our damage shield is only effective when you get useless (and even crippling) amounts of health, blinding flashes were removed and since heavy armor, block and armor mitigation in general are UP (Under Powered), having effective damage shields and/or evasion tricks is a must have - and we don't.
4. Useless skills. When looking at other's class skill trees, it can be difficult to pick only a few skills and/or morphs. Templars are straight forward, only a few skills are worth it thus making every Templar look the same than any other Templar, killing the diversity within the class.

timidobserver · December 2015

I've posted a version of this somewhere else, but this is my general opinion on Templar Skills/Morphs at the moment.

I think we have some skills that are weak as a whole, and we have some skills that have one strong morph and one weak morph. We need to improve the weak skills and the weak morphs.

Weak Skills: Healing Ritual, Eclipse, Piercing Javelin, Sun Shield, Sun Fire, Eclipse

Weak Morphs: Explosive Charge, Vampire's Bane, Radiant Aura, Extended Ritual, Restoring Focus, Honor the Dead, Crescent Sweep

A few suggestions(I am not going to address every skill I listed in my suggestion. Just the ones that I have ideas for):

Radiant Aura: This is probably one of the least competitive Templar Morphs when compared to the other morph(repentance.) Hilariously it was nerfed recently. We should try to make this morph more competitive with the other morph. Make this morph provide Minor Expedition(10% movement speed) to the player while it is slotted. Make it provide Major Expedition(40% movement speed) to the player only when the skill is used. Also, do something with all of the stuff that doesn't stack with potion buffs.

Crescent Sweep: Dawnbreaker of Smiting is arguably better than this skill in almost every situation. Against undead, it is a no-brainer. Make the range of this skill 10m like Dawnbreaker. Additionally, add 12-17 seconds of Major Force(+40% critical damage) or Major Berserk(+40% damage) to this skill.

Piercing Javelin: The name of this skill implies that it pierces. Lets add Major Breach(reduce spell resistance) to the Magicka morph and Major Fracture(reduce physical resistance) to the Stamina Morph.

Explosive Charge: Toppling charge is just so much better than the Explosive Charge Morph. Add a short duration AoE Immobilize or at least a short duration AoE 50-60% snare to this skill.

Healing Ritual(My Pet Peeve Templar skill): This is my least favorite Templar skill(bad experience with a healer insisting on using it while healing the Mantikora in Sanctum Ophidia.) Delete this skill and replace it.

My idea is for what to replace Healing RItual with is below, but really any idea works as long as you delete it and replace it with something else.
"Ritual of Balance"
Base skill: Upon using the skill it gives you Major or Minor Mending.
Morph 1(magicka): You deal X% of your healing back to targets around you as AoE damage in an 8 m radius. Scales with Magicka.(We have tons of healing based on damage in the game, so why not damage based on healing.)
Morph 2(stamina):. You heal yourself and those near you by X% of the damage your output in an 8 m radius. Scales with Stamina.

Vampire's Bane: The reflective aura morph of this applies a 40% snare to 3 targets. Since Vampire's Bane applies only to a single target, increase the snare to 60-70% for the single target. For some reason, reflective light does more damage on the initial hit. Given that Vampire's Bane is single target, it should do much more single target damage than reflective light. Increase the damage of the initial hit by 20%. Also, most Templar are forced into stacking Thaumaturge for damage, so just make the base skill and both morphs deal magical damage rather than elemental.

Honor the Dead: Turn it into a Stamina Morph that only heals the caster and adds an additional heal over time. It should scale off of Stamina. Yeh I know some Magicka builds use this, but you'll be fine with Breath of Life.

Akinos · December 2015

Good thread guys, lots of good info that need to be looked at by ZOS here.
@ZOS_GinaBruno

AfkNinja · December 2015

Now we are rolling! @timidobserver Great post! Thanks for contributing!

Essiaga · December 2015

AfkNinja wrote: »

Spacemonkey wrote: »

-> Either increase range of the rune or make it follow - It used to be great coupled with the FG defense circle pre-1.6 but we can"t overbuff D and mitigate dmg to the point of being able to stand in one spot anymore. So it makes it kindof useless.

Good point! Standing still often results in getting cloberstomped. ZOS needs to reconsider Channeled Focus, let it move with us OR give us a real reason to stand still....it's not even better than other class armors it's the same armor bonus just with a small mana regen attached.

Rune Focus doesn't help us stand it ot. Is there a more accurate Area(of effect) in the game? for real if you step out side it at all you're on the timer (though it reads 'close'), but if your jabbing the ear of a WB caster it still hits you. Maybe we need Wildstar like indicates for skills.

How about casting RUNE FOCUS gives you Protection (15-30%) or cc immune (even if its just for the 5-6 seconds)?

Is the magicka regen on it even that great? Its like 480 every 2 seconds? I guess it is if your not over 2k regen. Idk. Other classes get 10-20% regen in passives. We got to stand in circle of our own death or have worthless Aura up.

With 5 skills on the bar we need more utility out of our skills. Look at Mass Hysteria, Mark Target morphs. Now compare to Rune Focus and Back Lash. Why does a class with such mobility and damage out cc and debuff a class that stuck in a little tiny circle? We are littler our own CC with Rune (and TC bug.)

Templars should have protection, maim and possibly evasion since we litterly need to stand still and our Shields is so nerfed in PVP.

Tomato · December 2015

I want a stamina whip for DK's

SemiD4rkness · December 2015

Stamina templars should get some kind of buff to all healing. Could be passives or a skill that works like igneous shield does for Dks. Our heals should be our strongest ability but stamplars have the worst healing out of all 4 classes.

Essiaga · December 2015

Sun Shield

~ Shield strength is decreased 50% but not the cost of the spell ...
No skill takes a bigger hit from this then Blazing Shields as the damage it returns is based, or limited, by the damage it absorbs.

My my shield is around 4k at v16. Which means the average gap closer broke it. However with a 6 second duration attempting to keep it up is only calling attention to myself as it takes me out of stealth. So I'm baiting people with my inferior shield in light armor, and my low dps, and wasting magicka in the process. Why 6 seconds when sorcs get 20 seconds and much larger shields?

Most attacks can brake it with a single hit and it might return 2k damage, but it still cost like 3k magicka. It simply doesn't save me or hurt them enough for me to cast this over just jab spaming or a BOL. (I also don't have my armor/resistance buff since they are 8 seconds unless i stand perfectly still in my RUNE FOCUS, and don't get minor, where as sorcs do).

I'm a gankers dream. My light armor butt is gonna die before I get off a heal, which is what makes Templar "OP."

Here are my suggestions ...

All shield should take Critical and DoT damage.
No shield should be able to stack with another shield. Pick a shield and its benefits.

Recommended changes to Sun Shield:

Base Skill

1) Provides Shield for 6 seconds.
2) Shield explodes at end of duration or when destroyed, causing damage to enemies in a 8 meter radius equal to 50% of missing shield.

Magicka Morph: Blazing Shield

1) Provides Shield for 10 seconds.
2) Casting again before shield duration is over will cause the shield to explode for 50% of the remaining shield. (Sacrifice protection of the shield for damage. Surprise!)

Stamina Morph : Radiant Shields.

1) Provides Shield for 6 seconds. Scales off max health.
2) Shield explodes at end of duration or when destroyed, causing damage to enemies in a 8 meter radius equal to 25% of missing shield.
3) Provide CC immunity for 5 seconds. (Help with Stamina build escape)
4) Casting again before shield duration is over will cause shield to explode healing all allies with in 8 meter radius for 50% of the remaining shield. (Stamina Heal for HEALING CLASS!)

The shield would still be smaller then Sorc's as we can't stack Magicka as high (Bound Aegis) and the size of the shield can also be like 25-30% of max stat if there is a concern.

I don't have any real complaint about the size of the shield in PVE but in PVP with the reduction to shields it stink. Also Sorc's are the only one's who see real value out of CP in Bastion. The larger the shield the more benefit 25% increase will be.

25% of 4k =1k ... 25% of 12k=3k.

I bet if you lowered Bastion by 10% or just did away with it all together no one would care but the Magicka Sorcerers.

ZOS_GinaBruno · December 2015

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

SemiD4rkness · December 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

We did it!!! Thanks for finally listening to what we have been asking for months if not a year.

SemiD4rkness · December 2015

Also, sun shield is so useless I completely forgot about it on almost every post ive made complaining about stamplars.
It shouldn't scale off of health. Most of us run around with 20k to 25k health which grants you a very low shield that can be destroyed in 2 light attacks. Also it has a very low duration but it never actually runs out because it offers so little protection. I think it should scale off of max stat and get an increased duration.

timidobserver · December 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

As far as bugs go,

Radiant Destruction does not get the execute bonus and puncturing sweep does not get the closest target damage bonus against damage shields.

Other than Focused Charge which has already been commented on, this is probably the worst bug that any PvP focused Templar is experiencing atm.

Side note: The abilities suck so no one has likely noticed or checked, but I bet that Aurora Javelin and Crescent Sweep also do not get their damage bonuses against damage shields.

Callidus_Est · December 2015

A few suggestions for Sun Sheild.

1. Give it an AoE miss chance, like Blinding Flashed did.

2. Increase the size, or make it scale off of magicka or stamina, whichever is higher.

3. Maybe even make it give Minor Mending to one morph, and major savagery(more crit damage) to the other morph.

4. Also, increase the duration to, maybe, 10 seconds?

WillhelmBlack · December 2015

Bugs.

Not sure if bug, well it's not really but the Dawns Wrath Enduring Rays passive actually nerfs one of its own skills, Power of The Light.

Bonus damage of Puncturing Sweeps doesn't apply to damage shields.

Toppling Charge, needn't say more.

Radiant Destruction doesn't execute or gets stuck to dead bodies sometimes.

Empowering Sweep sometimes completely misses even in the 5m radius.

Van_0S · December 2015

Blazing spear AoE stun, please.
Blazing shield or Radiant shield scales of max stamina and uses [x] stamina and increase it duration.
Give either exploding or toppling charge a stamina morph.
Honor of the dead be a stamina morph or change the passive by making healing done to any healing ability.

Lastly,Give us more stamina morph, please.

Zinaroth · December 2015

zornyan wrote: »

@AfkNinja I've made a specific thread for gina concerning sweeps too and talked through all the issue with that skill, let's keep it up guys we NEED this issues attended too.

Ninja do you have a pc eu account?

Got an ep or ad friends / alts? Would love to meet up and try to record some footage between us to actually show the devs what's going on

I am glad you finally came to your senses and decided to join in on the fight for the Templar class!

You've taken a complete 180 degree turn compared to your attitude in this thread a while back:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224956/give-templars-mobility-stronger-defense/p7

Thumbs up mate, keep up the good work!

EgoRush · December 2015

@Nifty2g needs to get in on this action too, don't think he was tagged.

I will write up what bugs I have come across and issues with certain abilities soon. I am EU Ebonheart Pact in case anyone wants to run some tests with me too, feel free to add me. Especially if you have an alt in DC/AD we could always meet in PvP and test things more thoroughly by getting read-outs of damage with respect to certain defensive CP etc.

KeplerMG · December 2015

Toppling charge has degenerated back to its old broken self. Has it has ever worked properly? No... but now the Y-axis problems are back. If your target is slightly up or down a small hill, the ability will not fire. Also, a while back they said they removed or lessened the cooldown. All they did was turn off the GUI evidence of the cooldown. Your bar doesn't go grey, but you are still CC'ed for as long as your target. Complete garbage.

Puncturing Strikes is still waiting to be made viable, as it once was. I still can't believe ZOS listened to the bad players who expected to be able to stand in one spot, not utilize strafe and dodge roll, and still win. Most of those players who got us nerfed have either gotten better at the game, or quit. It's time to fix it. How much longer will the soft CC of Puncturing Strikes give free CC immunity to enemy players? Can we at least have the "free CC immunity giving soft CC" effect removed and get a snare instead? Enough is enough already.

Can Blazing Spears have a wider radius that requires more than one second to get out? The current radius is only good enough for NPC's in solo delves. The CC effect could be "Anyone casting or channeling a heavy attack in the area when the spear lands is set off-balance." One person getting stunned from an AOE ability???... PVE Garbage!

Other abilities need alot of help as well, but I'll have to think those out before sharing my opinions. Later.

Nifty2g · December 2015

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

zornyan · December 2015

Zinaroth wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@AfkNinja I've made a specific thread for gina concerning sweeps too and talked through all the issue with that skill, let's keep it up guys we NEED this issues attended too.

Ninja do you have a pc eu account?

Got an ep or ad friends / alts? Would love to meet up and try to record some footage between us to actually show the devs what's going on

I am glad you finally came to your senses and decided to join in on the fight for the Templar class!

You've taken a complete 180 degree turn compared to your attitude in this thread a while back:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/224956/give-templars-mobility-stronger-defense/p7

Thumbs up mate, keep up the good work!

I believe you misunderstood me, templars are a great class, and can still do well, BUT only in the most skilled hands, I still kill plenty of people, but it requires so much hard work compared to other classes, I can log on any of my other builds (stam nb, magicka and stam sorcs) and wreck face far far more.

The reason being that 90% of the time I'm praying a skill doesn't bug out, like toppling charge, that odd time it manages to actually not freeze me still, or using sweeps the rare time all 4 hits land.

Overall we're fairly well balanced, we just need all these bugs fixing, and I would also argue for some aoe cc/random stuff sorting out, like getting rid of the pathetic hard cc that the 4th jab is.