Templar issues thread

Callidus_Est

Nikkor wrote: »

I can't even take this thread seriously.

You have a Templar with 230 champion points on the ps4 beating vet maelstrom in less than 2.5 hours.

Templars don't need any buffs!!!!!

That is situational. We are not talking about players that are Templars. We are talking about the class at it's core. You have no power here!

Mumyo

Nikkor wrote: »

I can't even take this thread seriously.

You have a Templar with 230 champion points on the ps4 beating vet maelstrom in less than 2.5 hours.

Templars don't need any buffs!!!!!

other classes can do it even faster with less cp.

Zinaroth

I agree with all the suggestions @Alcast used and would like to add:

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweeps:
Remove the knockback since it is useless giving your target CC immunity after a 1 second knockback. Replace it with a minor snare, 30-40% will do, to help us Templars use it effectively in PvP. Currently it not viable against people that move around, and who doesn't? Also; make the snare proc on the first or all hits instead of on the last only.

Restoring Focus and morphs:
Make it a self-buff instead of a ground effect and up its duration to 20 seconds. This will bring it in line with Lightning Form and Spile Armor and provide mobility.

Spears Shards and morphs:
Make it work like the NB shades where you within its duration can teleport to it on second use. This will give us a mobility tool which we really need, that matches with the class identity without being a regular speed buff.

pelennor_fields

Many good ideas that I definitely agree with here.. To reiterate and add my own comments-

Suggestions;

Shields: might be one of the weakest points, esp in magicka templars. Shieldsnl need to be increased significantly and made to scale off something other than health or at least to have that option presented as a morph. Sun shield is basically useless to a LA, magicka based templar and there are no suitable replacements. The length of time needs to be looked at as well... 4 sec feels like it isn't even enough time to activate one skill. 6-10 would be more useful. Rune Focus and Channeled Focus fit in this regard. Time is okay with this one but it should either follow us or otherwise give us a major reason to stand in one place on top of a target. Large buffs to defense or offense would be likely candidates.

Radiant Destruction this ability went from "jesus beam" to pitiful. It has been gutted to the point it is laughable. Templars need a serious execute ability. Leave damage as is or further decrease damage on the front end but seriously dial up the damage again for targets under 1/4 health.

Javelin and Flare neither of these feel like they are causing enough damage to be taken seriously. Especially in regard to Vampire's Bane morph; as has been said. This is barely noticeable even when above 3k spell damage and the dot is lackluster.

Mobility is a key issue to Templars. If they aren't going to have enough shields and buffs to go toe to toe for a long fight then they must have mobility on the field. As stated shields could do with some serious increases - otherwise some options need to be looked at to grant Templars a class based movement buff/retreat option.

Bugs;

Toppling Charge still feels very buggy in whether it works or not... Sometimes it just causes my character to kind of jump or twitch, even when therebis a seemingly clear LOS to the target. Stun applies irregularly and the duration almost nevet lasts more than a second.

Radiant Destruction in addition to my earlier comments regarding increasing RD's viability as an execute skill - it seems that since the Orsinium update it has nearly completely fizzled. My tooltip went from reading more than 14k with buffs procced to 8k. There was nothing in the patch notes that i could find addressing this ability.

Thanks for your consideration of these suggestions and your attention to the player base is appreciated. You have created an amazing and highly complex game and with attention and care from the developers and the player base it is constantly evolving to become a unique joy to play and one of the greatest games around.

AfkNinja

Nikkor wrote: »

I can't even take this thread seriously.

You have a Templar with 230 champion points on the ps4 beating vet maelstrom in less than 2.5 hours.

Templars don't need any buffs!!!!!

I can't even take YOU seriously. You didn't read the first post did you? Where I specifically stated Gina ASKED US TO MAKE A THREAD LIKE THIS. Take your trolling elsewhere.


P.S. That Templar was probably Alcast....who posted in this thread with his feedback.

Anazasi

I think Templars do great on healing and are probably ok for the most part on tanking. (yes there are the exceptional players in both areas.) however, Templar abilities in the single target DPS magic area are pathetic. We have no decent AOE magic abilities and no AOE CC abilities. Our mobility overall is bad unless you run vamp or alliance retreating maneuvers. As a class we are under par in balance and utility. The one ability you gave us that took away our AOE CC was cried over for months till it was nerfed. So Templars could seriously use a revamp and not just little fixes but a serious remake so that we can actually be more than heal bots in pvp.

I only play magic build I know stam builds are far superior and perhaps even considered on par with other classes. This is however only because you can get 5k weapon damage pretty easy as stamina user and only around 3600 (not sure about this number but I think its easy enough to get) spell damage as a magic user.

Neoauspex

pelennor_fields wrote: »

Rune Focus and Channeled Focus fit in this regard. Time is okay with this one but it should either follow us or otherwise give us a major reason to stand in one place on top of a target. Large buffs to defense or offense would be likely candidates.

If the mobility issue isn't addressed in some other manner, make the morph of Rune Focus that nobody uses something along the lines of: "Enemies within the area of effect cannot leave."

dodgehopper_ESO

Zinaroth wrote: »

I agree with all the suggestions @Alcast used and would like to add:

Biting Jabs / Puncturing Sweeps:
Remove the knockback since it is useless giving your target CC immunity after a 1 second knockback. Replace it with a minor snare, 30-40% will do, to help us Templars use it effectively in PvP. Currently it not viable against people that move around, and who doesn't? Also; make the snare proc on the first or all hits instead of on the last only.

Restoring Focus and morphs:
Make it a self-buff instead of a ground effect and up its duration to 20 seconds. This will bring it in line with Lightning Form and Spile Armor and provide mobility.

Spears Shards and morphs:
Make it work like the NB shades where you within its duration can teleport to it on second use. This will give us a mobility tool which we really need, that matches with the class identity without being a regular speed buff.

Interesting ideas Zinaroth. I definitely agree with putting a snare on Jabs. I personally don't think even giving it a duration would bring it in line with spike armor/lightning form. Both of those skills supply damage (which we should be getting from sun shield but aren't) though the Focus does supply either healing received (weak) or a nice and much needed magic regen. Your spear shard idea is pretty interesting, and in fact I really like it. The only problem I foresee with it is that the Templar class could really use its aoe cc back. Personally, if given the choice I would even be happy with a morph of radiant destruction being our 'blinding flashes', but I don't know if they would be willing to give this to us. I just want to point something out. Isn't it ironic that the fastest thing in the universe is light, and yet the Light-class is the slowest class in this game? I've always found that a bit funny. On top of your bucket list of changes, I'd probably like to see them make the charge function exactly like ambush, but give it a nice golden flash of light. I badly want to use this skill but it has been problematic for me since day 1. My earliest memories of this game in beta in fact, are playing with a friend of mine while my character locked up in Khenarthi's Roost, around the area where the harpies are hovering about an old Khajiit temple (mid island). I think I was animation locked and skill locked for 15+ minutes, including attempts at logging out/in. The problems with this skill have mitigated somewhat since that day, but for some reason it still falls easy prey to this animation/skill lockout.

AfkNinja

Snare on Jabs, yes please.
Change +crit on Jabs to +crit damage, yes please.

When you look at the passives and the way the classes were built I can't help but feel they were intending for a Rock, Paper Scissors kinda gameplay. In this scenario Dragon Knight is Rock, Templar is Paper and Sorc/NB are Scissors.

DK beats scissors cause they are built for burst dmg which DK excel in tanking. They wear out the scissors before they can win.

Templar seems like it was meant to counter DK (rock) with increased crits, crit dmg and bonus dmg from blocks. I think we were meant to burst through DK's mitgation and blocking with those bonuses but it didn't work.

Sorc/NB were meant to burst through a Temps heals which can't keep up resulting in a three way balance wheel.

However I don't feel that balance was implemented well at all.

dodgehopper_ESO

AfkNinja wrote: »

Snare on Jabs, yes please.
Change +crit on Jabs to +crit damage, yes please.

When you look at the passives and the way the classes were built I can't help but feel they were intending for a Rock, Paper Scissors kinda gameplay. In this scenario Dragon Knight is Rock, Templar is Paper and Sorc/NB are Scissors.

DK beats scissors cause they are built for burst dmg which DK excel in tanking. They wear out the scissors before they can win.

Templar seems like it was meant to counter DK (rock) with increased crits, crit dmg and bonus dmg from blocks. I think we were meant to burst through DK's mitgation and blocking with those bonuses but it didn't work.

Sorc/NB were meant to burst through a Temps heals which can't keep up resulting in a three way balance wheel.

However I don't feel that balance was implemented well at all.

This is how I viewed it as well. Eclipse on the surface looks like it is meant to be the hard counter for Dragon Scales. Instead it actually makes the DK even stronger. The better melee blocking, shield penetrating passives, bonus weapon damage passive, strong spell res, strong self heal (magic only), reflect and build up damage (sun shield + backlash), cleanse (for dealing with DoT's, which is the DK's primary damage focus) are obvious examples of how I suspect they intended Templar to be the counter to DK. In practice I don't think it has ever properly worked that way though.

FireCowCommando

Nikkor wrote: »

I can't even take this thread seriously.

You have a Templar with 230 champion points on the ps4 beating vet maelstrom in less than 2.5 hours.

Templars don't need any buffs!!!!!

Not that it matters, but i went back and did it again, but with 150 CP.

Zinaroth

Anazasi wrote: »

I only play magic build I know stam builds are far superior and perhaps even considered on par with other classes. This is however only because you can get 5k weapon damage pretty easy as stamina user and only around 3600 (not sure about this number but I think its easy enough to get) spell damage as a magic user.

Weirdly enough it's actually quite the opposite. Magicka Templars are better than Stamplars in literally every aspect of the game. More damage due to damage scaling and passives and a lot more defensive capability and class passives that work for them.

RinaldoGandolphi

A lot of good suggestions in this thread, I agree with them I only have one thing to add:

Skills from the Dawn's Wrath Tree should do Flame Damage, you are afterall using the power of the sun, the sun is a big ball of fire.

1. Dark Flare should do Fire Damage not Magic Damage....its a "Solar ability" the Sun is a big ball of fire, it should do flame damage just like Sun Fire.

2. If your going to keep Backlash in the game, it should also do Flame Damage, your again dooming your target "With a beam of sunlight" Sunlight/solar is Fire.

3. Radiant Oppression and its morphs should do Flame Damage

4. If Backlash is going to stay in the game it should do Flame Damage

5. Remove the damage aspect from Eclipse and instead give it a secondary effect.

• Total Dark heal you for spells reflected and reduce the targets weapon and spell damage by 10% for 6 secs.
• Unstable Core should increase the damage of reflected spells by 10% and targets attacks have 20% chance to miss for 6 secs

Last but not least:

Move Thaumaturge to the Apprentice Tree

To do this and have it make sense is this how you do it:

1. Move Thaumturge to Apprentice Tree
2. Move Blessed to Lover's Tree
3. Move Tenacity to the Ritual Tree
4. Remove Poison and Disease damage increase from Thaumaturge and place it in Mighty so Mighty Increases Physical, Poison, and Disease Damage instead of just physical.

This helps both stam and magic, stam users can use Red and Green points to increase healing. Magic Users can use Red or Green points to increase healing, Stam users get a resource return passive in their damage tree, Mighty also helps their poison and diesease attacks, and , Magic users get a damage increase in theirs that increases magic damage instead of physical damage...all parties involved win here, and it makes sense...

just my 2 cents

WalkingLegacy

I fail to see how sunlight and solar is fire.

Sunlight is more like a radiation beam of awesomeness.

So dawn of wrath should be radiation damage?

AfkNinja

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

RinaldoGandolphi

AfkNinja wrote: »

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

if they make them all Flame Damage then i can have my Solar Sun Templar with a Flame Staff Baby!!! Woo hoo!!! lol and investin Elemental Expert hahaha

AfkNinja

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

if they make them all Flame Damage then i can have my Solar Sun Templar with a Flame Staff Baby!!! Woo hoo!!! lol and investin Elemental Expert hahaha

That's a really good point actually. I still wouldn't use flame staff but that would be cool.

Zinaroth

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I fail to see how sunlight and solar is fire.

Sunlight is more like a radiation beam of awesomeness.

So dawn of wrath should be radiation damage?

Better get our Hazmat Suits or Power Armor ready then! That's atleast one thing I learned from venturing in The Glowing Sea.

AfkNinja

Zinaroth wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I fail to see how sunlight and solar is fire.

Sunlight is more like a radiation beam of awesomeness.

So dawn of wrath should be radiation damage?

Better get our Hazmat Suits or Power Armor ready then! That's atleast one thing I learned from venturing in The Glowing Sea.

Love that game so much, it's so hard to decide what to play when you only have a few hours a week and 2 amazing games like FO4 and ESO.

Drewzi

I would like a blazing spear, burning light buff or fix. I lost about 3.5k dps per second with that nerf.

Ashamray

Old Eclipse. It had another animation and action. In fact, you patiently waited for projectile that started to fly towards you, and tossed your Eclipse into enemy. His projectile reached you and turned back. It was funny!

Wreuntzylla

AfkNinja wrote: »

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

Is this what they are teaching in physics classes today? That sunlight is a plasma?

AfkNinja

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

Is this what they are teaching in physics classes today? That sunlight is a plasma?

The light itself is photons obviously but the sun is plasma, your'e just being nitpicky now.

Edgar_Baerland

Let's not argue about the sun. lols

dodgehopper_ESO

My opinion of Eclipse is that it should be a purge-only effect. I am fine with it targeting only one player at a time if they do this, and all else can remain the same. The treatment of this skill as a crowd control is the biggest problem with Eclipse, effectively neutering the skill to uselessness. It is as though you could block-break defensive posture or reflective scales off of someone, which hardly seems fair. Cleansing Ritual/Purge should be the only thing that works on this skill and I really can't respect any suggestion otherwise. Everyone has access to Purge (and Efficient Purge, the REAL morph in my view), and NB's and Templars have cleanses built into their class lines.

zornyan

This is what eclipse should be

"Stun your enemy for 3 seconds, for 6 seconds after any single target spells are reflected back at the user"

That imo would be much better, if it's going to be a CC at least give it a proper stun of some sort like a CC should have, and make it a spammable ability, you can spam defensive stance, dk can spam their wings, why can't we do the same?

Wreuntzylla

AfkNinja wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Sunlight is plasma. Fire is a weak form of plasma. I'd rather not have all our abilities changed to fire dmg though.

Is this what they are teaching in physics classes today? That sunlight is a plasma?

The light itself is photons obviously but the sun is plasma, your'e just being nitpicky now.

Nitpicky? So you think the difference between the emission and the source is nitpicky???

China is going to own us before I die...

FireCowCommando

Just a heads up, I was lucky enough to run into Worbel the other day in King Richards stream. I asked him about the delay after templars charge.

He replied! When he was play testing templar he himself noticed the delay after charge, and not being able to weapon swap for ~1 second after casting charge.

So, he decided to task one of the engineers on digging into the issue! Fingers crossed guys!

pelennor_fields

That is good news. However I hope it doesn't stop there, there needs to be a reckoning. Templars and Dragon Knights need some serious love right now.

Basically in regards to Templars, to summarize what I've already said they have great utility and sustain for pve but could use some skill touch ups especially for PvP.

zornyan

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Just a heads up, I was lucky enough to run into Worbel the other day in King Richards stream. I asked him about the delay after templars charge.

He replied! When he was play testing templar he himself noticed the delay after charge, and not being able to weapon swap for ~1 second after casting charge.

So, he decided to task one of the engineers on digging into the issue! Fingers crossed guys!

Do not screw with me boy, this is too good to be true.

Did you get him to fight a ahold stacking overlord sorc at the same time?