Could Argonians be the "third magicka race"?

Jitterbug · November 2015

I'm a broken record.

I would like for Argonians to become the third magicka race where Altmer and Breton are the first two.
For stamina races there are Imperial, Redguard and Orc, and Dunmer which falls into both categories.
The two races that don't fall into either category are Nord and Argonian. I could whine about Nords but I play Argonian so my tears will flow their way today.

I propose making Argonians strong magicka users, and strong healers (not that I play a healer personally) as I feel that would fit their theme and lore-yness. Strong magicka would also make them very viable for magicka nightblade thus tying into the "Shadowscale". I further propose to give them the Bosmer treatment:

7/14/21% magicka regen
Swim speed

1/2/3% max health and magicka
poison resistance

3/6/9% healing recieved and 2/4/6% healing done

I know I, and others, have threads about his already, I just thought I would make a new one, because why not, and also to mark the joyous occasion of @Wrobel descending on the forums. Can anyone (Mr. Wrobel) say whether or not there are plans to revamp the Argonian passives? Some kind of answer would be much appreciated, my turntable is getting worn down.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

Yes please. Less crappy racial passives please.

Tryxus · November 2015

Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?

Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a Sneak bonus with their Swim Speem and a stamina bonus along with their poison resistance

Jitterbug · November 2015

Tryxus wrote: »

Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?

Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a sneak/stamina bonus along with their swim speed and poison resistance

I see their link with the Hist making them more "shamanic" thus making the link to Magicka more obvious (just to me, not saying you're wrong, just my perception). The Shadowscale is a small portion of the Argonian heritage so I don't personally feel it warrants a "Sneaky" racial passive in itself.

Edit: Also, I feel the game could use another Magicka focused race and the Argonians seem the best fit. Surely better than Nords or Khajiit anyway.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

The fact that Argonians are natural healers confirms their innate ability to channel Magicka. In the world of the Elder Scrolls, the real sneaky types are the Magicka users, since they have access to some powerful Illusion magic (Illusion magic is represented in ESO by the Nightblade's class skills).

Jitterbug · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

The fact that Argonians are natural healers confirms their innate ability to channel Magicka. In the world of the Elder Scrolls, the real sneaky types are the Magicka users, since they have access to some powerful Illusion magic (Illusion magic is represented in ESO by the Nightblade's class skills).

Exactly. This is the first and foremost reason for me to suggest making them a Magicka heavy race.

The second:

Stamina races: Orc, Redguard, Imperial, Khajiit, Bosmer, (Dunmer) = 6
Magicka races: Altmer, Breton, (Dunmer) = 3
Health races (lol): Nord, Argonian = 2

Lava_Croft · November 2015

This agreeing is making me feel like we just gave each other a reach around. Oh well, for the Hist I guess!

Jitterbug · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

This agreeing is making me feel like we just gave each other a reach around. Oh well, for the Hist I guess!

No shame in that

TheWolfJeW · November 2015

Dunmers are the third magicka race in my opinion. They get a 9% boost to max magicka. This is nearly equivalent to the 10% extra magicka that Bretons and High Elves get. I would consider Bosmer and Khajiit better stamina races over a Dunmer any day. Health wise Imperial get one of the biggest health bonuses of all races, 12%, along with the 10% stamina.

Jitterbug · November 2015

TheWolfJeW wrote: »

Dunmers are the third magicka race in my opinion. They get a 9% boost to max magicka. This is nearly equivalent to the 10% extra magicka that Bretons and High Elves get. I would consider Bosmer and Khajiit better stamina races over a Dunmer any day.

Sure, I agree on that, no doubt. They should probably stay in the Magicka category, I just chose to place them in both seeing as they also receive an, albeit small, bonus to stamina.

Hylda69 · November 2015

I think they could just give us a bonus for magicka, like +6% and remove the swimming bonus.

Orc = +6% stam & +6% health
Dunmer = +9% magicka & +6% stam
Imperial = +12% health & +10% stam

So Argonian = +6% health & +6% magicka
There is no racial like this.

LadyNalcarya · November 2015

Hylda69 wrote: »

So Argonian = +6% health & +6% magicka
There is no racial like this.

Or maybe they could add magicka regen and sneak bonus, so argonians would be a magicka equivalent to wood elves.

Gilliamtherogue · November 2015

Tryxus wrote: »

Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?

Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a Sneak bonus with their Swim Speem and a stamina bonus along with their poison resistance

You are confusing that with specific Argonians who are born under the Shadow constellation, which are Shadowscales. Normal argonians are more shamanistic than sneaky, so magicka based passives would be extremely lore friendly. Deep ties with the Hist attunes their bodies' energies to align with the ebb and flow of magicka, thus why many of their tribe members are knowledgeable in healing spells. It certainly would be nice to see a magicka equivalent to the orc races, where their swim speed gives a 4% magicka/spell based potency increase, just as orcs have a 4% melee potency increase.

Quick to mend should be capped at 5%, but should increase the potency of heals received and casted, while Amphibious should scrap the potion bonus and increase potency of spells casted by 4%. Heck you could even tie it to after drinking a potion, all spells are increased by 4% for 15 seconds or so.

Draxys · November 2015

Dunmer get 9% magicka and extra fire dmg, that's pretty magicka-y if you ask me. Not saying argonians shouldn't have better racials, but Dunmer is a pretty decent magicka race.

Xvorg · November 2015

IMHO all the pact's races should be magicka/stamina hybrids according to lore, being argonians more magicka oriented, dunmer more balanced and Nords more stamina oriented

This is from Morrowind: http://prntscr.com/93rb6c (notice the spear mastery in both, lizzards and blondies T_T)

Jitterbug · November 2015

Xvorg wrote: »

IMHO all the pact's races should be magicka/stamina hybrids according to lore, being argonians more magicka oriented, dunmer more balanced and Nords more stamina oriented

This is from Morrowind: http://prntscr.com/93rb6c (notice the spear mastery in both, lizzards and blondies T_T)

Yup, this sounds about right to me too.

13igTyme · November 2015

Argonians in past Elder scrolls games have been magicka favored. Should be in this one like many of us have been saying.

Alucardo · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Swim speed

I still laugh every time I read this passive

Jitterbug · November 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Swim speed

I still laugh every time I read this passive

Every time I jump in the water and swim really fast I actually get a little sad

makeyurself · November 2015

I would love to see The Liazard-Folk gain a magicka passive' as you have suggested!

Xvorg · November 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Swim speed

I still laugh every time I read this passive

You know, waterbreathing was an excelent passive in former TES... they needed to do something about it here... Maybe underwater settlements with tons of quests in wish you need to dive to complete them... or give the argonians a faster swimming in a game plagued of slaughterfish that cannot bee killed and no underwater at all...

Sharmony · November 2015

My beloved swim speed

(Keep it in as part of the magicka regen, it's the only reason I have kept my argonian), without it we would've never found out some of ESO's scrapped content like Skingrad.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Xvorg wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Swim speed

I still laugh every time I read this passive

You know, waterbreathing was an excelent passive in former TES... they needed to do something about it here... Maybe underwater settlements with tons of quests in wish you need to dive to complete them... or give the argonians a faster swimming in a game plagued of slaughterfish that cannot bee killed and no underwater at all...

Everytime I make a thread about the weak argonian passives someone suggest designing a DLC around water breathing. I know you're trying to be constructive, and I appreciate that, but this is about tweaking the actual passives. Thank you.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Sharmony wrote: »

My beloved swim speed (Keep it in as part of the magicka regen, it's the only reason I have kept my argonian), without it we would've never found out some of ESO's scrapped content like Skingrad.

I see no reason not to keep this gimmicky flavor-racial in. As long as it is accompanied by actual passives.

Sharmony · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

My beloved swim speed (Keep it in as part of the magicka regen, it's the only reason I have kept my argonian), without it we would've never found out some of ESO's scrapped content like Skingrad.

I see no reason not to keep this gimmicky flavor-racial in. As long as it is accompanied by actual passives.

Yay now we can do more of this (beginning of the video)

Xvorg · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

Swim speed

I still laugh every time I read this passive

You know, waterbreathing was an excelent passive in former TES... they needed to do something about it here... Maybe underwater settlements with tons of quests in wish you need to dive to complete them... or give the argonians a faster swimming in a game plagued of slaughterfish that cannot bee killed and no underwater at all...

Everytime I make a thread about the weak argonian passives someone suggest designing a DLC around water breathing. I know you're trying to be constructive, and I appreciate that, but this is about tweaking the actual passives. Thank you.

Naaaah, no need for underwater. Maybe a new game, but not a DLC.

For underwater breathing we have other 5 games (being the 3rd one the best in that regard).

For all in-game purposses we need to increase magicka to lizards whether it is magicka pool, magicka regen or spell dmg/crit

Alucardo · November 2015

Argonians are pretty lame as it stands (no offence). Couldn't hurt to give them a little spell crit or damage to enhance those heals and some magicka regen.

Xvorg · November 2015

Sharmony wrote: »

My beloved swim speed (Keep it in as part of the magicka regen, it's the only reason I have kept my argonian), without it we would've never found out some of ESO's scrapped content like Skingrad.

hmmm, I think I need to swim a little. Maybe metting Vivec, some cliff racers and Dagoth Ur?

Sharmony · November 2015

Xvorg wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

My beloved swim speed (Keep it in as part of the magicka regen, it's the only reason I have kept my argonian), without it we would've never found out some of ESO's scrapped content like Skingrad.

hmmm, I think I need to swim a little. Maybe metting Vivec, some cliff racers and Dagoth Ur?

I found out how to get max swim speed vs survivability against slaughterfish, it's brutal

jhharvest · November 2015

Argonians have a buff for swim speed. You used to be able to swim across the rivers in Cyrodiil with it. ZOS didn't like this, so instead of removing the swim speed buff, they just increased the slaughterfish damage. Thanks ZOS!

ThatNeonZebraAgain · November 2015

Hylda69 wrote: »

I think they could just give us a bonus for magicka, like +6% and remove the swimming bonus.

Orc = +6% stam & +6% health
Dunmer = +9% magicka & +6% stam
Imperial = +12% health & +10% stam

So Argonian = +6% health & +6% magicka
There is no racial like this.

Agreed. OP's idea about adding a smaller bonus to healing dealt is also a great idea.

However, I think the potion return on the Amphibious passive is actually not completely terrible now, and would rather have this unique utility than magicka regen. While Magicka regen benefits Magicka builds, any build and class benefits from getting more out of potions, which are usually used in emergency situations; and it is especially important for tanks who need more ways to instantly replenish stamina. Could the value of stats returned be higher, or add a decrease to the potion cooldown to make the passive potentially more useful? Absolutely. But, because it works with all classes/builds and helps in emergency situations, I think this unique bonus is worth keeping around, especially if we can get it tweaked further to make it on par with the value of other racial passives.

So, my ideal would be:

Amphibious
Return 15% of all stats on potion use [or current 8% stat return but ith 15 second reduction to potion cooldown]
Increase swim speed 50%

Argonian Resistance
+6% health and +6% Magicka
Poison/Disease Resistance

Quick to Mend
9% healing recieved and 6% healing done [or +15% healing received by itself]

EDIT: For those Argonian NBs, see my comment in Wrobel's thread about changing Catalyst passive to offer more class utility and also stack or directly complement Argonian potion passive once more.