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Could Argonians be the "third magicka race"?
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Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, I don't really care for Argonians, but I do hope they get buffed. It's a little silly how mediocre they are. That being said iirc one of the devs mentioned on screen they're trying to keep argonians in this regeneration/health mold. So as much as I'm rooting for them to be willing to do something, I have a bad feeling. ><
Inb4 ZOS just adds an underwater dungeons or something so Argonians have their niche. ;^)
I do tend to give them a little more credit than that :-P
And I'm happy that you are able to demean yourself from your pointy ears or your fancy imperial passives to give us lowlives a little love ;-)
edit: and TBH, even though I would personally hate more health/health regen for my playstyle I would take it hands down if it meant Argonians would have some sort of reason.Edited by Jitterbug on November 23, 2015 10:22PM0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Well, I don't really care for Argonians, but I do hope they get buffed. It's a little silly how mediocre they are. That being said iirc one of the devs mentioned on screen they're trying to keep argonians in this regeneration/health mold. So as much as I'm rooting for them to be willing to do something, I have a bad feeling. ><
Inb4 ZOS just adds an underwater dungeons or something so Argonians have their niche. ;^)
There are soooo many ways to make Argonians better while retaining a regen theme. What's interesting though is that both Khajiit and Bosmer have better regen than Argonians. In fact, Argonians have no regen. It's potions and healing received. I just don't get it. They changed other racials completely because they didn't make sense in this game. Why are they dragging their feet with Argonians? It really is like someone or some group in development doesn't like them. Look at the attention other races have gotten. All they did for Argonians is nerf them into extinction, alienating every Argonian NB.1 -
Tdroid✭✭✭Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?
Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a Sneak bonus with their Swim Speem and a stamina bonus along with their poison resistance
Looking at maingame Elder Scrolls, Argonians have had combat, magic and stealth bonuses, with various attribute specs. The Argonian female, while without any racial magicka bonuses, did have a starting value of 50 intelligence, which was the primary magicka attribute. The male was typically more geared towards stealthy combat.2 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?
Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a Sneak bonus with their Swim Speem and a stamina bonus along with their poison resistance
Looking at maingame Elder Scrolls, Argonians have had combat, magic and stealth bonuses, with various attribute specs. The Argonian female, while without any racial magicka bonuses, did have a starting value of 50 intelligence, which was the primary magicka attribute. The male was typically more geared towards stealthy combat.
This right here! Argonians would be the PERFECT magicka-based stealth race. It's got all kinds of precedent and there's no race right now geared toward that role. Both the stealth races are stamina.
@ZOS_RichLambert1 -
Tdroid✭✭✭Aren't they supposed to be a Stamina race in line with the Khajiit and Bosmer?
Argonians are experts in guerilla warfare, so they should have a Sneak bonus with their Swim Speem and a stamina bonus along with their poison resistance
Looking at maingame Elder Scrolls, Argonians have had combat, magic and stealth bonuses, with various attribute specs. The Argonian female, while without any racial magicka bonuses, did have a starting value of 50 intelligence, which was the primary magicka attribute. The male was typically more geared towards stealthy combat.
This right here! Argonians would be the PERFECT magicka-based stealth race. It's got all kinds of precedent and there's no race right now geared toward that role. Both the stealth races are stamina.
@ZOS_RichLambert
A minor correction: Argonians have a past of being guerilla fighters with both stamina and magicka based skills. Then again, the Orcs used to be the most tanky warriors and the Nords the ones balanced between damage and defense and that was turned on its head for TESO.
So, Argonians having a magic preference wouldn't bother me.3 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭how about a passive that on a crit returned some magicka fits a lot of the themes being bandied about here?1 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭thinking more about it I would say have crits return magicka to you and crit heals return a some magicka and stam to the target. this would make them good for sustained dps and also viable healers for those not rolling templars as tanks would love the stam back. keep the swim speed though as it adds to their flavour. posion/disease resist is ok its like bosmers.
something like :- spirit of the hist
on a critical heal 1/2/3/% of the targets max magicka and stamina to the target.
favoured of sithis on a critical hit have 1/2/3% of your max magicka returned to you
this means that with 30k max magika you would get 900 back coupled with skills like siphoning attacks it would give great sustainEdited by lathbury on November 24, 2015 12:18PM0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭The saddest part about all this is that ZOS will likely continue to ignore all our suggestions and grievances, and maintain the status quo.
Swim fast, my egg-brethren, because that's the only advantage you're ever going to have.
Edited by Junkogen on November 24, 2015 1:19PM0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0 -
KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
0 -
Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.1 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭I agree with the sentiment of this post of course, but maintain my position that "from stealth" bonuses (especially if they aren't also triggered by Cloak or invis pots), while lore friendly, are not the answer to Argonians' problems, and in fact would be even less useful than the current potion stat return passive. To know the reasons why, simply listen to what Khajit and Bosmer players have been saying for a long time (though the topic isn't brought up as much now as it was before their racials were boosted in other ways). The reasons for my argument are as follows:
First, these stealth-based passive have virtually no effect on endgame PvE DPS viability. They can be useful for soloing one mob at a time where you can re-stealth between fights, but offer nothing when fighting multiple mobs (which is more common than fighting single mobs), or during prolonged boss fights.
Second, stealth-based passives have only limited usefulness in PvP. They are good for a strong opener from stealth (ie ganking), but that's it. Again, in larger and longer fights where you cannot re-stealth, this passive isn't helping anything. Moreover, the apparently permanently broken "stuck in combat bug" that prevents stealth will many times also prevent this passive from even being used for its strong point (ganking).
Third, the limited practical/situational usefulness of 'from stealth' racials described above makes the 45-second potion cooldown (the limiting factor in the potion stat return passive) much more flexible and actually useful across all types of playstyles and encounters. This was part of the reason why I suggested what I did in my last post in this thread.
So, if you want to buff Argonians' combat abilities, "from stealth"-based passives are, imho, not the way to do it. Or, at least if they do pursue that route, they should proc from Cloak and invis pots, since this would potentially then give back an Argonian-NB synergy that was behind many older players' choice in rolling Argonian in the first place (for those that don't know, Argonians and NBs used to share an Increase Potion Effectiveness passive, which combined made potion effects 45% stronger; combined with a potion cooldown that could be brought down to 15 seconds, this made Argonian NBs a challenging niche, yet powerful build). If this sounds like it would make Argonian NBs overpowered, I would direct you to Dunmer's boost to fire damage and their synergy with DKs; it's a form of class-race synergy more than a distinct disadvantage for other classes.
Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on November 24, 2015 6:46PMGore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden3 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?1 -
Slurg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.
So, I believe your point is, since Argonians have knowledge according to the lore, we should be able to execute our skills more efficiently based on our knowledge. Therefore, Argonians should have a great cost reduction bonus when using skills.
I'll take that too.Happy All the Holidays To You and Yours!
Remembering better days of less RNG in all the things.1 -
ThatNeonZebraAgain✭✭✭✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?
Increase healing received substantially, or tack on +healing dealt as well (which would be more useful across builds). Could also have an effect that procs on low health or something that increases mitigation or all forms of regen, etc.Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
Wayra High Elf Sorceress
Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden0 -
Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.
So, I believe your point is, since Argonians have knowledge according to the lore, we should be able to execute our skills more efficiently based on our knowledge. Therefore, Argonians should have a great cost reduction bonus when using skills.
I'll take that too.
That is a good idea. A 2% cost reduction for Stamina and Magicka skills opposed to the 3% for magicka of Bretons. Would also help stamina builds. Everyone is happy.1 -
Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?
more like
Blocking is x% more effective
or
6% physical resistance0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?
more like
Blocking is x% more effective
or
6% physical resistance
Rings more Orcy or Nordy to me. Proper tanky folk. Argonians are weird lizard people, they regenerate crazy fast. I think a route focusing on getting stuff back rather than mitigating stuff is more appropriate. But maybe that's just me?0 -
Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?
more like
Blocking is x% more effective
or
6% physical resistance
Rings more Orcy or Nordy to me. Proper tanky folk. Argonians are weird lizard people, they regenerate crazy fast. I think a route focusing on getting stuff back rather than mitigating stuff is more appropriate. But maybe that's just me?
Argonians are much more resilient than Orcs or Nords.
Orcs resilience is about "Taking more damage and YOLO"
Nords resilience comes from strenght
Argonians are the most resilient race in TES, biologically speaking. Giving them physical resistance wouldn't be far fetched.Edited by Corellon Thromorin on November 24, 2015 6:57PM0 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Do you even lore?Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.
"At home in water and on land, the Argonians of Black Marsh are well-suited to the treacherous swamps of their homeland, with natural immunities protecting them from disease and poison. The female life-phase is highly intelligent, and gifted in the magical arts. The more aggressive male phase has the traits of the hunter: stealth, speed, and agility."
From their Morrowind description.
What part of argonian lore makes you think that argonians should be tanky?Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Please tell me that was from memoryKoshkaMurka wrote: »"At home in water and on land, the Argonians of Black Marsh are well-suited to the treacherous swamps of their homeland, with natural immunities protecting them from disease and poison. The female life-phase is highly intelligent, and gifted in the magical arts. The more aggressive male phase has the traits of the hunter: stealth, speed, and agility."
From their Morrowind description.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_PaulSage look at the profile of all the people that say Argonians are fine willing to bet all the money that non of them play Argonians.
Argonian racials could be better, but the Dunmer are at least one hundred and ten times more inclined to have magicka affinity than Argonians.
And they do.
Please make a thread about Dunmer if you wish.
Otherwise, any constructive suggestion on Argonian racials would be most welcome in this thread.
Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
Interesting. How do you mean?
Like (a lot) more health regen, or more on the healing received? Cause I was actually thinking the second one earlier today.
What if the healing received was actually a silly OP number... like 30%?
more like
Blocking is x% more effective
or
6% physical resistance
Rings more Orcy or Nordy to me. Proper tanky folk. Argonians are weird lizard people, they regenerate crazy fast. I think a route focusing on getting stuff back rather than mitigating stuff is more appropriate. But maybe that's just me?
Argonians are much more resilient than Orcs or Nords.
Orcs resilience is about "Taking more damage and YOLO"
Nords resilience comes from strenght
Argonians are the most resilient race in TES, biologically speaking. Giving them physical resistance wouldn't be far fetched.
They're much more of hunter/assassin/survivor type, with a bit of magic/alchemy knowledge and talents, its not exactly "tanky".Edited by LadyNalcarya on November 24, 2015 7:02PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Do you even lore?Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.
"At home in water and on land, the Argonians of Black Marsh are well-suited to the treacherous swamps of their homeland, with natural immunities protecting them from disease and poison. The female life-phase is highly intelligent, and gifted in the magical arts. The more aggressive male phase has the traits of the hunter: stealth, speed, and agility."
From their Morrowind description.
What part of argonian lore makes you think that argonians should be tanky?Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
The part where they have scales, aren't "mammals" (mammals are squishy) and regenerate from wounds faster.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Do you even lore?Corellon Thromorin wrote: »KoshkaMurka wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Argonians don't need magicka, stop with this nonsense.
Its not a nonsense. Have you played previous TES games?
In Morrowind and Oblivion, argonians had bonuses to Alchemy, Illusion and Mysticism.
In Skyrim, they had small bonuses to Alteration and Restoration.
Having bonuses in such skills is much more about knowledge than magickal affinity, do you even lore? It is nonsense.
"At home in water and on land, the Argonians of Black Marsh are well-suited to the treacherous swamps of their homeland, with natural immunities protecting them from disease and poison. The female life-phase is highly intelligent, and gifted in the magical arts. The more aggressive male phase has the traits of the hunter: stealth, speed, and agility."
From their Morrowind description.
What part of argonian lore makes you think that argonians should be tanky?Make Argonians more tanky, not more magickal.
The part where they have scales, aren't "mammals" (mammals are squishy) and regenerate from wounds faster.
Mammals also dont have magic and any supernatural abilities... And Nirn =/= Earth.
And ok, if they're so physically strong and resistant, then why theyre known for their guerrilla warfare and not for brute force, like orcs?Edited by LadyNalcarya on November 24, 2015 7:08PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU0
