Maelstrom Destro Staves a DPS downgrade without a Nirnhoned Option

Ezareth · October 2015

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

Thanks for posting this @Ezareth . Maybe we can get @ZOS_RichLambert and some of the dev team looking into further upgrading some of these Maelstrom items. @ZOS_GinaBruno , you must have heard community member ask for Nirnhoned staves by now. Come on, it's time that we have this (and time that my advice on the Maelstrom tanking weapon is followed)!

Erondil · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

Ezareth · October 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

I can't speak on Nerieneth/Valkyn Skoria for PvE but you could do 1 piece Molag Kena, 2 Pc Torug, 3 Willpower, 5 Julianos that would likely be better. My 3 piece examples was just to show that there are many options you could use to get the spellpower bonus instead on a crafted staff piece to compensate against the spell power bonus of a Maelstrom staff.

The real issue is Maelstrom weapons are supposed to give you a chance at acquiring the best weapons in the game and for stamina builds this is actually the case since they are already using Sharpened weapons. Since you do not use sharpened Destro already for PvE or PvP it is a significant downgrade going from Nirnhoned to Sharpened.

Erondil · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

I can't speak on Nerieneth/Valkyn Skoria for PvE but you could do 1 piece Molag Kena, 2 Pc Torug, 3 Willpower, 5 Julianos that would likely be better. My 3 piece examples was just to show that there are many options you could use to get the spellpower bonus instead on a crafted staff piece to compensate against the spell power bonus of a Maelstrom staff.

The real issue is Maelstrom weapons are supposed to give you a chance at acquiring the best weapons in the game and for stamina builds this is actually the case since they are already using Sharpened weapons. Since you do not use sharpened Destro already for PvE or PvP it is a significant downgrade going from Nirnhoned to Sharpened.

I believe a 2p undaunted set and 60 sd is better than 1 spell dmg bonus and 4% spell penetration for pve (and spell resist is not needed) though I'm really not an expert. I got your point about vMA supposed to give best weapons in the game, and I do agree in PvE but as long as there is no way to obtain it by pvping, imo it shouldn't be much stronger than others setup for this part of the game.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

I can't speak on Nerieneth/Valkyn Skoria for PvE but you could do 1 piece Molag Kena, 2 Pc Torug, 3 Willpower, 5 Julianos that would likely be better. My 3 piece examples was just to show that there are many options you could use to get the spellpower bonus instead on a crafted staff piece to compensate against the spell power bonus of a Maelstrom staff.

The real issue is Maelstrom weapons are supposed to give you a chance at acquiring the best weapons in the game and for stamina builds this is actually the case since they are already using Sharpened weapons. Since you do not use sharpened Destro already for PvE or PvP it is a significant downgrade going from Nirnhoned to Sharpened.

I believe a 2p undaunted set and 60 sd is better than 1 spell dmg bonus and 4% spell penetration for pve (and spell resist is not needed) though I'm really not an expert. I got your point about vMA supposed to give best weapons in the game, and I do agree in PvE but as long as there is no way to obtain it by pvping, imo it shouldn't be much stronger than others setup for this part of the game.

I think Ezareth is right. Most of the VR14 master weapons were not best in slot, even without considering the nirnhoned factor. The resto staff was (mostly because you can't dual wield and cast healing springs) and I think the bow was if you were dedicated to maintaining a poison DoT. Other than that, they were outperformed by more mundane options.

Something else to consider here. Because of the horrible RNG system and the highly dubious decision on ZoS's part to allow "bad" traits like charged, sturdy, weighted, etc., even if you do get the actual weapon you want (ZERO guarantee here. I completed DSA over 200 times and never got a single inferno staff), odds are it isn't going to be used by people who are competitive when it comes to their DPS parses.

Erondil · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

I can't speak on Nerieneth/Valkyn Skoria for PvE but you could do 1 piece Molag Kena, 2 Pc Torug, 3 Willpower, 5 Julianos that would likely be better. My 3 piece examples was just to show that there are many options you could use to get the spellpower bonus instead on a crafted staff piece to compensate against the spell power bonus of a Maelstrom staff.

The real issue is Maelstrom weapons are supposed to give you a chance at acquiring the best weapons in the game and for stamina builds this is actually the case since they are already using Sharpened weapons. Since you do not use sharpened Destro already for PvE or PvP it is a significant downgrade going from Nirnhoned to Sharpened.

I believe a 2p undaunted set and 60 sd is better than 1 spell dmg bonus and 4% spell penetration for pve (and spell resist is not needed) though I'm really not an expert. I got your point about vMA supposed to give best weapons in the game, and I do agree in PvE but as long as there is no way to obtain it by pvping, imo it shouldn't be much stronger than others setup for this part of the game.

I think Ezareth is right. Most of the VR14 master weapons were not best in slot, even without considering the nirnhoned factor. The resto staff was (mostly because you can't dual wield and cast healing springs) and I think the bow was if you were dedicated to maintaining a poison DoT. Other than that, they were outperformed by more mundane options.

Something else to consider here. Because of the horrible RNG system and the highly dubious decision on ZoS's part to allow "bad" traits like charged, sturdy, weighted, etc., even if you do get the actual weapon you want (ZERO guarantee here. I completed DSA over 200 times and never got a single inferno staff), odds are it isn't going to be used by people who are competitive when it comes to their DPS parses.

Master vr staff was passively 1k magicka. Almost twice less than dmg bonus than 180 sd...
Edit: Also I'm not sure at all but since pve dps use shadow as mundus, I think precise is almost as good as nirn? Need confirmation from an expert PvEr since we're all mainly PvP players here, discussing about PvE dps xD

hedna123b14_ESO · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

Personofsecrets · October 2015

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

Well we should take whatever is better right? Isn't there a chance that nirnhoned bonus ends up being better than the spell damage. Isn't that the point that you tried to make @Ezareth ?

code65536 · October 2015

For one of my characters, I plan to use 5p Julianos, 3p Willpower, and 2p Monster, leaving an orphaned staff. I don't really want to ditch the monster set, so the Maelstrom staff would be a good fit.

Otherwise, yea, the Maelstrom staves--both destruction and restoration--look pretty weak. (And, frankly, ugly, but that's a separate issue.)

Personofsecrets · October 2015

It 'fits,' but couldn't a plain old staff with nirnhoned also fit and help to deal more damage?

Anhedonie · October 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Well for PvE dps are you sure 5 julianos 3 overwhelming 3 willpower is better than 5 julianos 2 nerieneth/valkyn skoria 1 maelstrom staff?
For PvP I hope it will not be a must because you shouldnt have to pay a full solo PvE dlc to have the best gear in pvp imo

I can't speak on Nerieneth/Valkyn Skoria for PvE but you could do 1 piece Molag Kena, 2 Pc Torug, 3 Willpower, 5 Julianos that would likely be better. My 3 piece examples was just to show that there are many options you could use to get the spellpower bonus instead on a crafted staff piece to compensate against the spell power bonus of a Maelstrom staff.

The real issue is Maelstrom weapons are supposed to give you a chance at acquiring the best weapons in the game and for stamina builds this is actually the case since they are already using Sharpened weapons. Since you do not use sharpened Destro already for PvE or PvP it is a significant downgrade going from Nirnhoned to Sharpened.

I believe a 2p undaunted set and 60 sd is better than 1 spell dmg bonus and 4% spell penetration for pve (and spell resist is not needed) though I'm really not an expert. I got your point about vMA supposed to give best weapons in the game, and I do agree in PvE but as long as there is no way to obtain it by pvping, imo it shouldn't be much stronger than others setup for this part of the game.

I think Ezareth is right. Most of the VR14 master weapons were not best in slot, even without considering the nirnhoned factor. The resto staff was (mostly because you can't dual wield and cast healing springs) and I think the bow was if you were dedicated to maintaining a poison DoT. Other than that, they were outperformed by more mundane options.

Something else to consider here. Because of the horrible RNG system and the highly dubious decision on ZoS's part to allow "bad" traits like charged, sturdy, weighted, etc., even if you do get the actual weapon you want (ZERO guarantee here. I completed DSA over 200 times and never got a single inferno staff), odds are it isn't going to be used by people who are competitive when it comes to their DPS parses.

Master vr staff was passively 1k magicka. Almost twice less than dmg bonus than 180 sd...
Edit: Also I'm not sure at all but since pve dps use shadow as mundus, I think precise is almost as good as nirn? Need confirmation from an expert PvEr since we're all mainly PvP players here, discussing about PvE dps xD

Nirn is better if target has more than 14800 resistance.

Ezareth · October 2015

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

I'm not certain that 2 piece Kena makes sense in many situations due to the excessive increase. Maybe in a burn phase sure, but overall I think the damage to your resourse sustain isn't worth the increase. A 1 piece Molag Ken and 2 piece Torugs however is acceptable and at very least comparable.

I think many people are also discounting the damage provided by Weapon enchant procs that you also lose with Maelstrom weapons.

Ezareth · October 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

Well we should take whatever is better right? Isn't there a chance that nirnhoned bonus ends up being better than the spell damage. Isn't that the point that you tried to make @Ezareth ?

4% Penetration + fire enchant isn't worth more than 189 spell damage, but 4% Penetration and fire enchant is easily worth more than 60 spell damage. The 18% Spell resistance is bonus.

The other primary point I'm trying to make is Stamina weapons do not have this issue. The benefit of using a maelstrom melee weapon is far larger than the benefit of using a maelstrom staff if in fact there is a benefit.

I just think if you're going to have a Best In Slot trait for casters it needs to be present on the BIS gear in end game content.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

What this seems to come down to then is whether or not using the maelstrom weapon compromises another set bonus.

hedna123b14_ESO · October 2015

Thankfully this is not an issue I have to ponder on, since my main is a magicka templar, so Ill be running DW:)

Fissh · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

Math, theorycrafting, dps, ...whatever....alllllllllllll that aside....Nirn honed is part of the game and builds. Why it is not part of dropped items, particularly high end like master wpns, is beyond my comprehension. RNG is sooooo bad, just throw it in the probably never get mix.....at least.

oibam · October 2015

I don't think the new weapons have to fit perfectly for new crazy min/max gear setups.

Furor · October 2015

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot
left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

You're better off doing this setup except dual wield Torug's Pact swords for the same spell damage bonus, nirnhorned, AND 5% to all damage...
Thus the maelstrom staves really are pretty worthless unfortunately.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

I truly hope nirnhoned remains "crafting-exclusive".

Wisler89 · October 2015

Furor wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot
left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

You're better off doing this setup except dual wield Torug's Pact swords for the same spell damage bonus, nirnhorned, AND 5% to all damage...
Thus the maelstrom staves really are pretty worthless unfortunately.

Not everyone can use DW in the main damage bar...
My sorc NEEDS a staff to deal damage and consequently a maelstrom staff can potentially be better than a crafted one.

Maulkin · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I truly hope nirnhoned remains "crafting-exclusive".

I don't think anyone is asking that sets start randomly dropping with nirn trait. Ez is just arguing about Maelstrom weapons.

When the best rewards hidden behind the hardest solo content and some pretty bad RNG, are inferior to what any crafter can make in 2 mins then we have a problem.

It's not like there'll be thousands of players with these Maelstrom staves. It's highly unlikely that anything more than a small percentage of the players will even get to own one.

ssewallb14_ESO · October 2015

It may be better for setups with an odd slot, eg 2x kena/nerieneth, 5x julianos, 3x willpower.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I truly hope nirnhoned remains "crafting-exclusive".

I don't think anyone is asking that sets start randomly dropping with nirn trait. Ez is just arguing about Maelstrom weapons.

I wouldn't make an exception for maelstrom weapons. Crafted must keep its priviledges :-)

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

When the best rewards hidden behind the hardest solo content and some pretty bad RNG, are inferior to what any crafter can make in 2 mins then we have a problem.

The rarity and quantity of crafting mats required at VR16 don't make them "instantly" or "easily" available. Crafted is "patience-gated" while dropped is "skill-gated". I quite like that scheme and it should remain so IMHO. Nirnhoned maelstrom weapons would unbalance the whole thing.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

It's not like there'll be thousands of players with these Maelstrom staves. It's highly unlikely that anything more than a small percentage of the players will even get to own one.

I wouldn't be so sure. I haven't tried VMA yet, just normal mode, which I found very enjoyable but admittedly quite easy. From what the "pros" report, vet version is quite hard. But quite many players can achieve hard content now, especially if they don't have to form a reliable group to train, with all the constraints. I believe more people will train very hard to beat VMA than they currently do for vICP or vWGT.
And even then, don't forget it will be nerfed one day, so one day maelstrom weapons will be in everyone's hands (like master weapons already are). So I'd vote no to nirnhoned maelstrom weapons. Just my opinion.

Ezareth · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

[
The rarity and quantity of crafting mats required at VR16 don't make them "instantly" or "easily" available. Crafted is "patience-gated" while dropped is "skill-gated". I quite like that scheme and it should remain so IMHO. Nirnhoned maelstrom weapons would unbalance the whole thing.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

It's not like there'll be thousands of players with these Maelstrom staves. It's highly unlikely that anything more than a small percentage of the players will even get to own one.

I wouldn't be so sure. I haven't tried VMA yet, just normal mode, which I found very enjoyable but admittedly quite easy. From what the "pros" report, vet version is quite hard. But quite many players can achieve hard content now, especially if they don't have to form a reliable group to train, with all the constraints. I believe more people will train very hard to beat VMA than they currently do for vICP or vWGT.
And even then, don't forget it will be nerfed one day, so one day maelstrom weapons will be in everyone's hands (like master weapons already are). So I'd vote no to nirnhoned maelstrom weapons. Just my opinion.

You're missing the whole point. This isn't about crafting/noncrafted. Nirnhoned Maelstrom weapons wouldn't unbalance anything. The issue is the Maelstrom staves are at very least a smaller upgrade if not a downgrade over existing staves precised because they lose the benefit of coming in Nirnhoned. I'd be completely fine if they changed the Spell enchant on Maelstrom staves to be 189 Spell damage + 4% Spell Penetration.

Stamina weapons do not have this issue as the best in slot trait for these weapons is already dropping. This increases the already present stamina-bias in the game even further.

I'm not even complaining that the ability this weapon buffs is next to useless, especially compared to the 2hand sword equivalent, I just want to know that if I'm going to dedicate God knows how many hours of my life to learning and grinding this content that the reward for doing so is worth something, not another item in the bags of an alt that I'll never equip.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

@Ezareth : my point is still valid, but yes, I admit I had missed your point, which I understand better now. I have no real opinion on how well balanced the maelstrom weapons are - I'm not that much of a theorycrafter - but if they have to tweak something, they should tweak the enchantment directly and not let these weapons drop in nirnhoned.

As to rewards being "worth it"... well... one item will be worth to some player and nothing to the next... but yes, I would not like to see an itemization fiasco like the trial drops either. So I have to agree with you.

.

Dracane · October 2015

My Nirnhoned V16 staff+Shock enchant (which also procs concussion and elemental drain) Will be much better than a sharpened staff with some spell damage on it.

If it was enchanteable, okay. But it's not, this staff is useless for myself.

kuscoe · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

I'm not certain that 2 piece Kena makes sense in many situations due to the excessive increase. Maybe in a burn phase sure, but overall I think the damage to your resourse sustain isn't worth the increase. A 1 piece Molag Ken and 2 piece Torugs however is acceptable and at very least comparable.

I think many people are also discounting the damage provided by Weapon enchant procs that you also lose with Maelstrom weapons.

Im not a pvpr so keep that in mind but when I am dpsing I try to keep overkill proc'd 100% of the time

I never have sustain issues either because I have a healer who knows what he is doing...

I cant attest to how this would play out in a stamina dps situation but for magicka builds it is easy to manage resources assuming you healer is competent

Ezareth · October 2015

kuscoe wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I would just like to point out that Maelstrom Destro Staves in their current form, even without the recent 30% buff fall behind a crafted Nirnhoned Destro Staff.

You can use another piece of a build that will give you a 129 spell damage bonus (Like 5 Piece Julianos with Nirn Destro Staff, 3 Piece Elemental Succession or Overwhelming Surge, 3 Piece willpower for example).

The extra 60 Spell damage doesn't even provide more bonus damage than a basic fire enchant on a staff does.

Then it comes down to the fact that a legendary Nirnhoned Staff provides both 4% more Spell penetration *and* 18% spell resistance to your char than a Sharpened Maelstrom staff.

Unless you make destro staves drop in Nirnhoned then the Maelstrom staves become useless. No one uses wall of Elementals and it is useless in any sort of DPS rotation.

Lastly the 189 spell damage should actually be 193 spell damage for a legendary enchant if it follows the same example as a V16 spell damage set bonus on Willpower. 189 spell damage is the bonus you get with at purple V16 Willpower.

As a counter to your point - if you run a 5 piece (julianos), a 2 piece (Kena) and a 3 piece (willpower) then you have one slot left. I would take that 189 spell damage and sharpened over no bonus and nirnhoned

I'm not certain that 2 piece Kena makes sense in many situations due to the excessive increase. Maybe in a burn phase sure, but overall I think the damage to your resourse sustain isn't worth the increase. A 1 piece Molag Ken and 2 piece Torugs however is acceptable and at very least comparable.

I think many people are also discounting the damage provided by Weapon enchant procs that you also lose with Maelstrom weapons.

Im not a pvpr so keep that in mind but when I am dpsing I try to keep overkill proc'd 100% of the time

I never have sustain issues either because I have a healer who knows what he is doing...

I cant attest to how this would play out in a stamina dps situation but for magicka builds it is easy to manage resources assuming you healer is competent

Well even with overload is a 33% increase in the cost of your ultimate worth the extra spell damage you receive on overload?

I can't really say what the best PvE rotation is as I don't do any trials and I dont know of anything that is challenging outside of ICP for an end game player. I do know Maelstrom Arena itself will be the new yardstick in which you measure yourself and I don't think I would use 2 piece Molag Kena in solo content where my resource management was up to me alone.

I'm not trying to say there are no scenarios where this staff may be better but there are definitely many more scenarios where it is not and that shouldn't be the case for the hardest item to obtain in the game.

Teargrants · October 2015

@Ezareth, I don't think you understand properly the imbalance of what you're asking for. People already melt in wall of elements, imagine how OP it would be to have a nirn'd staff w/ 189 spell dmg that buffs the OP wall of elements. Madness!

In fact, I move that ZOS should remove sharpened staffs from the loot table, to help keep Maelstrom wall of elements from upending all the balance changes since 1.6.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

My Nirnhoned V16 staff+Shock enchant (which also procs concussion and elemental drain) Will be much better than a sharpened staff with some spell damage on it.

If it was enchanteable, okay. But it's not, this staff is useless for myself.

How comparable are the two setups? What do you think that the DPS difference is?