Lava_Croft wrote: »

BossTuggles wrote: »

Pretty sure Sypher and company told people in chat to stop with the bashing. It is the internet you cant control people. What else would you have them do?

Ban people.
Close the chat.
Stop streaming.

Probably a few more things.

People were getting warnings/bans.

You can't "close" the chat, we put it in slow mode.

Stop Streaming? Really???


When the chat gets rowdy, nothing can really control them. (Did you see ESO Live 2 weeks ago?) The chat plays no part in the message we are getting across. If the chat is bothering you, simply disable it from your end.

Things I will be doing to make it better next time:
-Increase the Slow mode from 15 to 30 seconds.
-Appoint more strict and rigorous mods for the chat
-Make a bigger effort to calm down the chat without interrupting the stream schedule


Stop nitpicking. It's a process fellas.

Checked the replay out, sorry I did. This podcast is a joke. Same thing as last time: 4 1vXers talking about AvAvA - they have a lot of knowledge but only about the way they play the game. That's unfortunate.
So I'm glad for all the fanboys that like to watch 1vXing, more power to you. But that's not what AvA is about. Dont' give me the crap about small scale fights can happen, it's not about 1v1, 4v4, it's about groups. Look at my posts and see that I agree about zerging and things that can be done to address - I've put out more ideas (and better IMO) than most of these guys.

You have some guests on, in a loaded room, outnumbered, to get badgered by fanboys. And to put someone in a hotseat and then say "c'mon man" when they try and defend themselves - how about Shut the F up and let the guest say what they want to say.

"remember when you could have giant battles and no lag" - 1. No. There was lag at the start if fights were big enough. Yes it got worse as time went on and that's not how a game getting patched with improvements should be. Also,"now you get one 24 man group fighting and lag city" - No. We have full on 24 man vs 24 man fights. Fights now are lagging out the server when they get crazy big like 50+ vs. other large numbers, especially if it becomes 3 way. Unfortunately, if one of those fights is going on on the other side of the map, it still effects you wherever else you are fighting, even in a small group.

Again, guys I've played with have always run in a group, from the start. I've been playing this game since pre-beta PTS. Call it a ball group if it makes you feel strong, but yes, we did stay within AoE of buffs/heals, from the start.

If you think a DK needs to drop ulti's the way they used to be good, then you shouldn't be giving your opinion on DKs. Sorry. Stam DKs, one of the strongest and they do not need a stam whip added to it (though I'm not against it). Class extremely tanky. The only thing about DKs right now is that to be really good with them, you have to know what you are doing really well and with a lot of other classes, you can play them strong with only using cookie cutter builds and following simpler rotations.

Also, 'S' comments about "now we don't have specific builds that stand out like DK vamp" - 1. The reason that was so good is because it was broken as heck and everyone knows it. 2. Part of the issue isn't that the game is crappy right now (don't disagree there) but the issue is that the amount of players that theorycraft well are lacking. There are stand out builds where you want a specific players in a group if you can get them. I can think of several players that I prefer having not just them, but their build and it's not a cookie cutter "group" build even though we are in a group. Those guys make up a small part of the group however, even in a strong group, most will still be running those aoe cookie cutter builds. But the amount of times we've seen build videos pop up by streamers weeks (or more) after we've already had people running those builds or similar and then watched tons of players jump on the builds is astounding. A lot of people are waiting to be told what to run and not figuring it out for themselves.

Really agreed with you guys when you touched on how zos rolled stuff out that shows they don't know their game well enough. You should apply that to yourself when you go to talk about AvA. If you want to duel, again, more power to you, but dueling isn't going to take keeps, crown emps, run scrolls - which is what the game is built for. Not saying small groups or singles don't or should not have a use or place, at all (I prefer running in a smaller group than we've had to lately) but if you always run 4 men or smaller, then you really aren't going to know about all the little things of group fighting. You are going to assume a lot, just like zos does and you are looking the same way to those of us that know that part of the game as you think zos looks.

And I'll guarantee you that hardcore pvpers make up less than 10% of the ESO pop. The reason the CP average is so low is a combination of players that don't log on much and casual PvErs. ZoS talks to trade guilds and PvE guilds way more than PvP guilds and in feedback with PvP in the past, they seemed very uninterested when we had actual devs on. Only the PvE guys like dungeon designers seemed to care about feedback. IC was changed to be more PvE centric as it moved in development. It's better for them to have more players that spend crowns and don't tax the servers by playing a ton than anything else.

Anyway, hard to reply to a long podcast, so gonna move on. Get some more special guests and when you do, actually talk about big group play more and debate like we were doing in the forum thread here the last week.

I agree, get rid of AoE caps. Not gonna stop zergs however. Gotta look at several other things I mentioned earlier in the thread that aren't straight combat related.

Not bad not bad not bad

You speak like these players havent been involved in AvAvA since the game came out. You also seem to think that throughout this games life small man groups didnt contribute as much as your larger groups. I can speak from experience that from the start of this game I have never really ran in groups greater than 5 maybe. Having said this I know we have made HUGE contributions to AvAvA over my history in this game (I have played with Fengrush for the majority of this game, I have ran with and gotten Naw Sunrest emp even though I did not end up liking him, I also ran with the original emperor Wildifre and I still do when he decides to log into the game). I know for a FACT that Alacrity back in the day would dominate whole campaigns with 4-8 people. I remember having to worry about Luvboard and co. That group wasn't running around with 20+. All of these players (and this is only 2 groups mind you im picking out of the many) ran in smaller groups and caused DAMAGE and HAVOC against their opponents.

I also remember being a DK at launch and early into the games life I could hold down a choke point/breach against countless amounts of people. Not arguing that this wasnt OP (it sure as hell was) but I can also say the gameplay was seamless. I remember ult bombing groups of no lie 30+ people and wiping them with my group of 5 (we wont argue if this is good or not cus this is an entirely different topic). What I also remember is how I could actually cast skills while inside a group this big. You know what, I cant do this now. I get near a keep with action in it and I can not use skill or my frames go to *** or its just utterly unplayable. To actually say "remember when you could have giant battles and no lag" - 1. No. There was lag at the start if fights were big enough. Yes it got worse as time went on and that's not how a game getting patched with improvements should be. this is absurd man idk what to tell you. Ask anyone else who played at release. Im almost positive they all would take that Cyrodil over the current. Also,"now you get one 24 man group fighting and lag city" - No. We have full on 24 man vs 24 man fights. Fights now are lagging out the server when they get crazy big like 50+ vs. other large numbers, especially if it becomes 3 way. Unfortunately, if one of those fights is going on on the other side of the map, it still effects you wherever else you are fighting, even in a small group. Way back when these numbers you are throwing out were laughable. I mean you can even search youtube for early game vids. Remember Chalman fights? You would have to knock down like 3 walls to get in. There wasnt lag then like we have currently. You said yourself, now we get a 80+ person fight somewhere it actually lags other parts of the map. This didnt use to happen it now happens every god damn night.\

If you think a DK needs to drop ulti's the way they used to be good, then you shouldn't be giving your opinion on DKs. You also misconstrue what they said about DKs. NONE of them even CROWN AND JULES said that people want DKs dropping ults like they used to. However ULTS are a larger part of DKs class mechanic than any other class. For you to just falsely represent what they said is outright dickish man. It is almost like you just want to start *** with everyone just for the *** of it man. This isnt your first thread doing this *** either.

You have some guests on, in a loaded room, outnumbered, to get badgered by fanboys. And to put someone in a hotseat and then say "c'mon man" when they try and defend themselves - how about Shut the F up and let the guest say what they want to say. CROWN himself even mentioned and Sypher spoke on it how this was gonna be a rough room for Crown. It was, not denying that in any way. I mean its the interent. Go to any youtube video ever. It can be about fluffy bunnies or stupid silly cats. I bet you 3 comments down there would be some racist *** or like *** blaming cat videos for the current political climate. You dont acknowledge this, you dont acknowledge these people. So the "c'mon man" that you are referring to is them literally just saying DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. You know what happens when you show people what they are doing is affecting you they take that *** and run with it. Those people were *** no doubt but you dont lower yourself to their level. The whole godamn stream JULES was reading *** about make me a sandwich or other such nonsense and she didnt take the bait. She offhandedly commeneted on it in a joking matter but she realises who these people are and what they are trying to do. "THE STREAMERS" I am almost certain get that *** too on their streams all the time. They get sniped and raged telled and all that ***. They know from experience not to engage this behavior.

Really agreed with you guys when you touched on how zos rolled stuff out that shows they don't know their game well enough. You should apply that to yourself when you go to talk about AvA. Again you are simply trying to start ***. All of the players on that stream tonight have done alot in AvA in this game. To deny this idk what to tell ya man.


P.S. Lefty Lucy has played DK for his ESO life I am pretty sure. To just dismiss his opinions is also pretty *** man. For one preaching on how people need to be more civil and polite you sure lack these things yourself.

BossTuggles wrote: »

You speak like these players havent been involved in AvAvA since the game came out. You also seem to think that throughout this games life small man groups didnt contribute as much as your larger groups. I can speak from experience that from the start of this game I have never really ran in groups greater than 5 maybe. Having said this I know we have made HUGE contributions to AvAvA over my history in this game (I have played with Fengrush for the majority of this game, I have ran with and gotten Naw Sunrest emp even though I did not end up liking him, I also ran with the original emperor Wildifre and I still do when he decides to log into the game). I know for a FACT that Alacrity back in the day would dominate whole campaigns with 4-8 people. I remember having to worry about Luvboard and co. That group wasn't running around with 20+. All of these players (and this is only 2 groups mind you im picking out of the many) ran in smaller groups and caused DAMAGE and HAVOC against their opponents.

I also remember being a DK at launch and early into the games life I could hold down a choke point/breach against countless amounts of people. Not arguing that this wasnt OP (it sure as hell was) but I can also say the gameplay was seamless. I remember ult bombing groups of no lie 30+ people and wiping them with my group of 5 (we wont argue if this is good or not cus this is an entirely different topic). What I also remember is how I could actually cast skills while inside a group this big. You know what, I cant do this now. I get near a keep with action in it and I can not use skill or my frames go to *** or its just utterly unplayable. To actually say "remember when you could have giant battles and no lag" - 1. No. There was lag at the start if fights were big enough. Yes it got worse as time went on and that's not how a game getting patched with improvements should be. this is absurd man idk what to tell you. Ask anyone else who played at release. Im almost positive they all would take that Cyrodil over the current. Also,"now you get one 24 man group fighting and lag city" - No. We have full on 24 man vs 24 man fights. Fights now are lagging out the server when they get crazy big like 50+ vs. other large numbers, especially if it becomes 3 way. Unfortunately, if one of those fights is going on on the other side of the map, it still effects you wherever else you are fighting, even in a small group. Way back when these numbers you are throwing out were laughable. I mean you can even search youtube for early game vids. Remember Chalman fights? You would have to knock down like 3 walls to get in. There wasnt lag then like we have currently. You said yourself, now we get a 80+ person fight somewhere it actually lags other parts of the map. This didnt use to happen it now happens every god damn night.\

If you think a DK needs to drop ulti's the way they used to be good, then you shouldn't be giving your opinion on DKs. You also misconstrue what they said about DKs. NONE of them even CROWN AND JULES said that people want DKs dropping ults like they used to. However ULTS are a larger part of DKs class mechanic than any other class. For you to just falsely represent what they said is outright dickish man. It is almost like you just want to start *** with everyone just for the *** of it man. This isnt your first thread doing this *** either.

You have some guests on, in a loaded room, outnumbered, to get badgered by fanboys. And to put someone in a hotseat and then say "c'mon man" when they try and defend themselves - how about Shut the F up and let the guest say what they want to say. CROWN himself even mentioned and Sypher spoke on it how this was gonna be a rough room for Crown. It was, not denying that in any way. I mean its the interent. Go to any youtube video ever. It can be about fluffy bunnies or stupid silly cats. I bet you 3 comments down there would be some racist *** or like *** blaming cat videos for the current political climate. You dont acknowledge this, you dont acknowledge these people. So the "c'mon man" that you are referring to is them literally just saying DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS. You know what happens when you show people what they are doing is affecting you they take that *** and run with it. Those people were *** no doubt but you dont lower yourself to their level. The whole godamn stream JULES was reading *** about make me a sandwich or other such nonsense and she didnt take the bait. She offhandedly commeneted on it in a joking matter but she realises who these people are and what they are trying to do. "THE STREAMERS" I am almost certain get that *** too on their streams all the time. They get sniped and raged telled and all that ***. They know from experience not to engage this behavior.

Really agreed with you guys when you touched on how zos rolled stuff out that shows they don't know their game well enough. You should apply that to yourself when you go to talk about AvA. Again you are simply trying to start ***. All of the players on that stream tonight have done alot in AvA in this game. To deny this idk what to tell ya man.


P.S. Lefty Lucy has played DK for his ESO life I am pretty sure. To just dismiss his opinions is also pretty *** man. For one preaching on how people need to be more civil and polite you sure lack these things yourself.

You're arguing with things I didn't even disagree with.

For one I even pointed this out: Don't have a problem with small man groups being a big deal in Cyro. Pointed it out several times, even in that post. I prefer to run in them. We used to run under 12 95% of the time before last patch and under 6 more than half that time. And there are many places small man groups can be very effective, or should be in Cyrodiil.

BUT, many of the points they are trying to make are on horrible examples. And that matters when you start talking feedback to devs. Take Fengrush's stream last week we spoke of here, he's calling our group the problem with large group fighting when he is standing with 60 blues - what dev is going to watch that and go, this guy knows his stuff! That's just going to hurt the point.

And I know they've played in Cyro for a long time (some less than others or on breaks). I haven't been under a rock. I was playing with a group that mirror'd Alacrity in size and skill, we are well aware of what each other can do, that's why many of them played with us and vice versa when groups weren't running. I might not stream and I might not stick my nose out there a lot in cyro, but I've been playing consistently from the start (before the start). I've run into all these guys in cyrodiil before (granted not once doing anything AvA related, but I won't assume that means they never do), but don't assume that some of us don't know what we are talking about because we aren't putting ourselves on a stream. I don't think any of them are bad at the game or what they do, but they have said a lot of things that either aren't the problem or aren't the solution to the problem - so if things start getting changed and it's still wrong (IMO) then of course I'm going to care. It's wrong now sure, doesn't mean different wrong is any better.

Another I pointed out, even in the post you quoted: the lag. I specifically said lag has gotten worse over time and it shouldn't be working that way. BUT, there was still lag in some of those fights back in the day.

DK ultimates are not a large part of their class mechanic. That is some left over feelings about dropping banners like they were a standard skill. If you need help with your DK build I have a couple guys I run with that can help you out. They are strong still and any issues they have are with specific skills that need reworked or would be helped by overall magicka/stam balance in the game.

It feels like the only one trying to start *** here is you man, you've been picking fights with anyone that disagrees with your boys from the start and parroting the same stuff they already said. If I wanted to start *** I wouldn't be holding my tongue on several comments I'd have liked to have made over the past couple shows and discussions. In fact, looking over most of your comments vs what I actually said, I'm not even sure who are you are arguing with.

another good video , thanks. And it covers all pvp ingame not only from duels perspective. PVP right now is crippled on so many ways, its hardly fun and i am in big expectation of how low cyrodiil player numbers will be after Orsinium launched, when farmers are gone.

if i was at stream i can say this: "ZOS looks like focused on casuals survive at pvp, but after they have cyrodiil only populated by casuals, some of them will be more skilled and start expected to be succesfull through skill. at the end there will be ghost town. Thats how real world and games success works naturally. Not social ingeneering will change that. There is always a point, when even the most casual or group only oriented player like to kill someone through his skill at pvp, it never gonna change, its the passion that pvp needs to have

Ishammael wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Don't act like you aren't someone expecting your opinion not to be heard from zos, you even said you wish they were more involved with you guys. So yeah, people that play in other parts of the game that aren't 1vX are going to be concerned about someone's comments on combat when it comes from a more narrow perspective. Did you talk about dueling? You talk about a lot of skills from a 1v1 perspective - which is needed, but is not the total.

Maybe I'm wrong and you are capping flags with groups to take keeps and running scrolls back and I'm not seeing it. If so, my bad.

Latency Effects everyone - but if you are blaming it on a 24 man "ball" group, then you aren't helping anyone. Because that one group isn't what's causing the issue, you are just assuming it is. If it is, then how have I been in several fights bigger than that without lag? So yes, I agree the zerg mentality effects the lag, but when you guys start narrowing down on specifics and talking about changes devs need to make, SPECIFICS MATTER.

And no, if you share your opinion and expect people to just nod blindly in agreement, then you are in the wrong place. Many will gladly share our opinions about your opinion, we won't let it be.

Don't agree with the premise that you have to participate in capping keeps and running scrolls to provide feedback to Cyrodiil AvA.

This, especially now. I haven't really led my group to take keeps or scrolls since 1.5, but would like to. The best we could do is cut reinforcements, take outposts or save a friendly siege when they're in trouble. I would expect I people would listen to me more rather than less when I can not do what I want to do anymore.

This game was designed and founded upon 3 faction warfare, this game was never intended to be esports, queued mini games, small scale pvp can happen I see it everyday in cyrodiil, I see people fighting 1v1 on up to zerg v zerg, there are places in cyrodiil where people can duel and not be interrupted, with out expecting ZOS to redesign pvp in ESO.

Then came the problems, the servers can't handle blobs of players in a sector, the huge population imbalance, with out the core problems fixed nothing will make much a difference, small scale queued mini games will have their own problems, pre-mades will be the worst, 1v1 would only exacerbate how bad class balance would be in this game, I am all for options for the player base, but in this one I would like to see three faction warfare the focus of the dev team, fixing what they can to make it better for everyone.

Darnathian wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

You should apply that to yourself when you go to talk about AvA. If you want to duel, again, more power to you, but dueling isn't going to take keeps, crown emps, run scrolls - which is what the game is built for. Not saying small groups or singles don't or should not have a use or place, at all (I prefer running in a smaller group than we've had to lately) but if you always run 4 men or smaller, then you really aren't going to know about all the little things of group fighting.

Did we talk about dueling? I don't even duel this patch. I play in Cyrodiil, I play in IC just like everyone else. If I want to voice my opinion about the game from my perspective and if people care enough to listen then let it be.

Latency affects everyone, AOE caps affect everyone, the state of PvP affects everyone. I've played the game long enough to at least have some knowledge to form an opinion on certain aspects of the game.

If you don't agree with my opinions that's completely up to you, but my word shouldn't be dismissed because I don't play in large groups or "AvA"

I think that was his point and the majority of the pvp playerbase. Or as you 4 call it, the zerg balls. This game was designed for large scale pvp. Every time someone tries to give can opinion that plays with large groups they get insulted with services, lacks skill hitting two buttons, etc.

So their opinions get dismissed. Just like in this podcast.

Large scale pvp has nothing do to with grpsize normally.

The ballgrps you have in eso are a result of shady gamemechanics providing benefits for stacking up as tight as possible and have nothing to do with largescale pvp in general imho.

Darnathian wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

You should apply that to yourself when you go to talk about AvA. If you want to duel, again, more power to you, but dueling isn't going to take keeps, crown emps, run scrolls - which is what the game is built for. Not saying small groups or singles don't or should not have a use or place, at all (I prefer running in a smaller group than we've had to lately) but if you always run 4 men or smaller, then you really aren't going to know about all the little things of group fighting.

Did we talk about dueling? I don't even duel this patch. I play in Cyrodiil, I play in IC just like everyone else. If I want to voice my opinion about the game from my perspective and if people care enough to listen then let it be.

Latency affects everyone, AOE caps affect everyone, the state of PvP affects everyone. I've played the game long enough to at least have some knowledge to form an opinion on certain aspects of the game.

If you don't agree with my opinions that's completely up to you, but my word shouldn't be dismissed because I don't play in large groups or "AvA"

I think that was his point and the majority of the pvp playerbase. Or as you 4 call it, the zerg balls. This game was designed for large scale pvp. Every time someone tries to give can opinion that plays with large groups they get insulted with services, lacks skill hitting two buttons, etc.

So their opinions get dismissed. Just like in this podcast.

I expressed multiple times the group size I run in and I didn't feel like my opinions were dismissed by the panelists.

Ishammael wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I would like to add something about yesterdays podcast.

One of the things you said was bad with DK, was that talons was blockable. I read in patch notes that next patch it wont be blockable again.

I think you are overestimate the steel tornado compared to the impulse:
I agree impuls could get longer radius tho. But impulse also have a morph with a dot, witch makes easy proccing of f example skoria or sorc passive with lightning staff. It also gives magicka back and have spell penetration as destruction staff passive.

Since stamina is also used for dealing dmg with steel tornado, its harder to blockcast. You wont regen your dmg resource compare to blockcasting with impulse, where you constantly recover magicka.

I have also many times experienced with steel tornado that you have trouble getting a light attack to gain ultimate while spinning, since you have to dodge aoe etc as well. With a destrostaff that is not a problem.

Pls dont cry for nerf before you actually knows every detail around it. You are good players and have good points, but you are only humans too and can easily overlook things, and yesterdays podcast I think all of you missed very important information. I also personally think there was too much people involved but I didnt get the first part. Why were you 6 people btw?

This is not a negative post, its constructive critism.

There is nothing particularly wrong with the qualitative points that you make about Impulse vs. Steel Tornado.

However, you didn't bother with any numbers. I'll do it for you.

Area / Range
1. Impulse: 6^2 = 36
2. Steel Tornado: 12^2 = 144

Base Weapon Dmg
1. Impulse: Destro Staff (~1300)
2. Steel Tornado: DW (~1600) + 1 extra set bonus (129) + 12% medium armor passive

Weapon-Line Skill Modifiers:
1. Impulse: Light Armor Pen
2. Steel Tornado: + vs low health on skill, + vs low health DW passive, + vs stunned/snared DW passive

Stamina itemization
Magicka dmg reduction
Crit Damage Medium Armor

Do I need to keep going?

You've missed minor mangle on impulse (reduces enemy's max health by 10%), nirnhoned impen, and a few other bits and pieces. Not saying impulse is better than nado but there is a bit of spin here..

SkylarkAU wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I would like to add something about yesterdays podcast.

One of the things you said was bad with DK, was that talons was blockable. I read in patch notes that next patch it wont be blockable again.

I think you are overestimate the steel tornado compared to the impulse:
I agree impuls could get longer radius tho. But impulse also have a morph with a dot, witch makes easy proccing of f example skoria or sorc passive with lightning staff. It also gives magicka back and have spell penetration as destruction staff passive.

Since stamina is also used for dealing dmg with steel tornado, its harder to blockcast. You wont regen your dmg resource compare to blockcasting with impulse, where you constantly recover magicka.

I have also many times experienced with steel tornado that you have trouble getting a light attack to gain ultimate while spinning, since you have to dodge aoe etc as well. With a destrostaff that is not a problem.

Pls dont cry for nerf before you actually knows every detail around it. You are good players and have good points, but you are only humans too and can easily overlook things, and yesterdays podcast I think all of you missed very important information. I also personally think there was too much people involved but I didnt get the first part. Why were you 6 people btw?

This is not a negative post, its constructive critism.

There is nothing particularly wrong with the qualitative points that you make about Impulse vs. Steel Tornado.

However, you didn't bother with any numbers. I'll do it for you.

Area / Range
1. Impulse: 6^2 = 36
2. Steel Tornado: 12^2 = 144

Base Weapon Dmg
1. Impulse: Destro Staff (~1300)
2. Steel Tornado: DW (~1600) + 1 extra set bonus (129) + 12% medium armor passive

Weapon-Line Skill Modifiers:
1. Impulse: Light Armor Pen
2. Steel Tornado: + vs low health on skill, + vs low health DW passive, + vs stunned/snared DW passive

Stamina itemization
Magicka dmg reduction
Crit Damage Medium Armor

Do I need to keep going?

You've missed minor mangle on impulse (reduces enemy's max health by 10%), nirnhoned impen, and a few other bits and pieces. Not saying impulse is better than nado but there is a bit of spin here..

The Pulsar is almost always an inferior choice to Elemental Ring. For group play, yes you want one person with pulsar for that one-time burst. But thats it.

I havent looked but my prediction this poscast is by 4 players who are all sorcs or nbs wanting an easier way to gank scrubs away from a group who have never picked up a siege weapon.