Yup gave up tanking for full QQ 2h / bow dps and all I have to do is change a couple of skills/set pieces around and am able to pve dps (group and solo) and pvp (small scale/solo/group). Also save ard 5000 gold on pots + 3000 gold on cp resets + 3000 gold on attribute resets per day I play. That's around 11k on average per day. So until they make tanking viable to do more stuff then just be a punching bag in SOME vet pledges (heck most don't even need a tank) and trials, and also fixing the ridiculous loot credit system in IC that dictates tanks don't get credit unless they do x amount of damage, I can't see myself tanking. Hell I can't even solo content at a reasonable pace with a full optimised tank build that works in pledges/trials. I need to re morph skills and swap gears around. As a dps all I do is swap 2 or 3 skills and I'm good to go. Not to mention the insane pot chugging that comes with being a tank.

icontested wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

icontested wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I'm actually finding it hard to want to play as a true tank anymore, even on my DK. If you like pvp, or you like to be able to earn gold/AP/CP then tanking has never been where its at, and its only gotten less useful. I think their changes to the game are pretty flawed, and hopeful they see the light. Its just more efficient to get what youwant as a dps, its all about winnings over time, and a tank doesn't get many winnings over time when everyone gets a tanky buff 'just cuz'.

You have to diversify your playstyle. I have a custom set just for the last round of vet dsa. I have a solo.set to grind the cp and gold. Enough skill points to change my pvp ability selection. Don't sleep on the dk. Change up your sets with custom enchantment combos you would be surprised. Don't forget you can change your boon and re spec champion points if needed

Most people don't find it reasonable to need a full respec and complete gear change every time they want to go from group to solo.
Does dps do that? nope...
Do healers do that? nope...

They might change a couple skills around but that's about it.

The only exception is if you switch from pvp to pve (or vice versa). those are two different worlds and sometimes you need different styles/sets to be good.

I think I should clarify. I only respec champ points for vet dsa. By the Time you are running that if you don't have the gold or an efficient way of making gold then something is wrong.

Having Multiple sets is what I was really saying. Changing them is easy. I don't think its as exaggerated as you make it sound. Just so I know, are you a dk?

Yes my main is DK...
I tanked through since the beginning of the game.
And i do have multiple sets... i'm more of half a tank now.
sword and shield on 1 bar... 2hander on the other. (for "tanking")
then i can switch to dps by changing out my sword/shield for DW.
all armor and cp is set up for dps. I'm not the best meat shield anymore because i can only get around... 22k health and 23k resistances. (i'll get one shot by bosses on occasion) but since i HAVE to be more worried about dps to get through dungeons... i guess this is the crappy way i need to play if i want to keep playing.

Magicka DK is highest dps in PvE and can be a force to be reckon with in PvP if played correctly. The only thing they did is make it so they weren't in "god-mode" all the time and actually have a chance of being killed. People are mostly upset over the fact that Dragon Fire Scale can't be spammed but they did the same thing with Bolt Escape (and morphs) all you need to do is time the duration of each application and it is still manageable as long as you don't try to 1v10 all at the same time. Now if they're coming out one at a time then 1v10 is still a thing... also no gap closer? DKs have one of the best ones Draconic Leap (and morphs) which cost very little ult and does hefty amount of damage as well.

uso245 wrote: »

Magicka DK is highest dps in PvE and can be a force to be reckon with in PvP if played correctly. The only thing they did is make it so they weren't in "god-mode" all the time and actually have a chance of being killed. People are mostly upset over the fact that Dragon Fire Scale can't be spammed but they did the same thing with Bolt Escape (and morphs) all you need to do is time the duration of each application and it is still manageable as long as you don't try to 1v10 all at the same time. Now if they're coming out one at a time then 1v10 is still a thing... also no gap closer? DKs have one of the best ones Draconic Leap (and morphs) which cost very little ult and does hefty amount of damage as well.

If you spam Dragon Fire Scale you are using it wrong to begin with. It's fine how it is imo. Now using an ult as a gap closer? You mean the one that works 50% of the time? The other half simply wasting your ultimate and getting the wings glitched into the ground? Oh yea...good gap closer for sure...

Ishammael wrote: »

So much misinformation in this thread its unreal.

Let's start with some high-level stuff:

1. Past imbalance is no excuse for current imbalance.
2. @Joy_Division and @Armitas are two of the most experienced DKs on NA. Listen to them.
3. Nobody wants "OP LA DK" back. Players want a viable DK.
4. The game changes since 1.6 have prove-ably hurt magicka DKs the most. If you need this proven it can be done. While rather zealous, the OP is not wrong on any point.
5. Stamina DK has nothing to do with Magicka DK
6. PvE DPS has nothing to do with PvP performance.
7. 1vX videos are not an indication of class performance. Throwing up @Etaniel videos and claiming magicka DKs are fine is ridiculous -- he is an exceptional player making stuff happen.
8. If you're not playing at the vet 16 level, you're not relevant here. This is end-game discussion. Everything is viable in BWB.
9. Educate yourself on DK class skills, passives, what is broken and what is not, before posting. So much written here is simply wrong.

May the Nine Bless you my friend.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

So much misinformation in this thread its unreal.

Let's start with some high-level stuff:

1. Past imbalance is no excuse for current imbalance.
2. @Joy_Division and @Armitas are two of the most experienced DKs on NA. Listen to them.
3. Nobody wants "OP LA DK" back. Players want a viable DK.
4. The game changes since 1.6 have prove-ably hurt magicka DKs the most. If you need this proven it can be done. While rather zealous, the OP is not wrong on any point.
5. Stamina DK has nothing to do with Magicka DK
6. PvE DPS has nothing to do with PvP performance.
7. 1vX videos are not an indication of class performance. Throwing up @Etaniel videos and claiming magicka DKs are fine is ridiculous -- he is an exceptional player making stuff happen.
8. If you're not playing at the vet 16 level, you're not relevant here. This is end-game discussion. Everything is viable in BWB.
9. Educate yourself on DK class skills, passives, what is broken and what is not, before posting. So much written here is simply wrong.

May the Nine Bless you

Talos isn't around yet, or do you mean Lorkhan?

Hahaha good point. Let me rephrase then.
May all that is righteous bless you @Ishammael
May your words or truth ring clear for the ignorant and resonate loudly and clearly.

Moglijuana wrote: »

uso245 wrote: »

Magicka DK is highest dps in PvE and can be a force to be reckon with in PvP if played correctly. The only thing they did is make it so they weren't in "god-mode" all the time and actually have a chance of being killed. People are mostly upset over the fact that Dragon Fire Scale can't be spammed but they did the same thing with Bolt Escape (and morphs) all you need to do is time the duration of each application and it is still manageable as long as you don't try to 1v10 all at the same time. Now if they're coming out one at a time then 1v10 is still a thing... also no gap closer? DKs have one of the best ones Draconic Leap (and morphs) which cost very little ult and does hefty amount of damage as well.

If you spam Dragon Fire Scale you are using it wrong to begin with. It's fine how it is imo. Now using an ult as a gap closer? You mean the one that works 50% of the time? The other half simply wasting your ultimate and getting the wings glitched into the ground? Oh yea...good gap closer for sure...

I don't spam it I was pointing out people that require to spam it still can if they time the durations. I have no issue with the skill myself and my ult hasn't bugged on me since IC update. Personally I use other ults.

uso245 wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

uso245 wrote: »

Magicka DK is highest dps in PvE and can be a force to be reckon with in PvP if played correctly. The only thing they did is make it so they weren't in "god-mode" all the time and actually have a chance of being killed. People are mostly upset over the fact that Dragon Fire Scale can't be spammed but they did the same thing with Bolt Escape (and morphs) all you need to do is time the duration of each application and it is still manageable as long as you don't try to 1v10 all at the same time. Now if they're coming out one at a time then 1v10 is still a thing... also no gap closer? DKs have one of the best ones Draconic Leap (and morphs) which cost very little ult and does hefty amount of damage as well.

What game are you playing? i'm guessing you dont even play a DK... you prob just got killed by one and got angry....
magicka dk is hardly worth the time to use (even if you have a dunmer for the +7% fire dmg)... and having dragon leap as an ultimate is NOT a gap closer... at best you can use it every minute or two when your ultimate bar fills. It's not a reusable skill that just costs magic/stam

If you look at my signature you will see if I have a v16 of Templar, Dragonknight, and Sorcerer and currently finishing up on my v15 Nightblade.

First... you didn't have that signature when you left the earlier comment
second... typing that in doesn't mean you actually have it

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would argue that templar has the same issues and more broken skills, now and over its history. Templar has never had aglory day, apart from the healing role, and sadly a lot of out of class abilities are better choices. Playing templar warrior build, either as tank or dps just is not what it use to be. I feel your pain, but honestly i find dk still very easy to play, and vastly more synergistic with its abilities. Before anyone mentions the laserbeam, consider that we lost a tank ability to get it, one that was a deeply flawed analog of blur/cinders. As the warrior spec of templar i am more unhappy with the developments templar had gone through than any other class.

Truth!!!!!

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

Some quick facts for people that struggle understanding class balance:

• 1-DKs are un-mobile
• 2-DKs are supposed to be in-your-face
• 3-DKs have heavy DoTs & close range skills
• 4-DKs have only one, pathetic, distance ability
• 5-DKs have no class gap-closer
• 6-DKs are supposed to be tanky
• 7-DKs have reflect to defend against long range attacks
• 8-DKs now have very little to benefit groups
• 9-DKs have no realistic class execute
• 10-DKs resource management concept is supposed to be based around ultimate generation and battle roar
• 11-DKs are very limited in skill choice and builds to be effective

Note that I added numbers for ease of reference. I'm just starting to play a couple of dunmer magicka DKs as I explore IC, and this doesn't match my experience (and maybe I'm playing them all wrong. Who knows).

Here goes:

1 & 4 & 5 seem to be all about can a DK 'get into the mix' quickly; because that takes some way to either close distance or fire over distance. For me, the "gap closer" would be chains. I rarely use it, as I play my DK more as a sorc than a tank, so I don't really want to get in close. Distance stuff includes obsidian shards, which also has a nice knockdown. As a mage type, I also happen to use the destro staff. One prefers the clench with it's knockback, the other prefers crushing shock for the interupt. Flame lash also has some distance ability (less) but I'm not very good at it yet. Dragon Leap also can function as a gap closing attack and is a relatively cheap ultimate.

2 & 3 & 6 all seem to be based on the assumption that the DK is going to be a tanky sort. In the sense that abilities like talons and flame breath function as crowd controls and DoT, this is true-ish, but playing a dunmer with the flame-focus boosts and using flame-oriented glyphage to max it out, the inherent damage here puts them in kind of a grey area where their DPS is higher than a usual tank. Through the critical bonus from inferno in there, and it gets even better. Inhale and it's morphs are both an AoE fire based attack, as well as a self-heal and magicka boost; oh and it also interupts spellcasters (Plural! Yippee!). Way cool in IC.

They also have a few just plain weirdly cool abilities. Petrify and it's morphs can take someone out of the fight entirely till it wears off. Obsidian sheild can effect a huge group of people. I mean daedra bless it, try this in a large group or small zerg - it's just freaky how many people you effect. Then you have ash cloud - both flame damage and a mass slow at the same time.

My take on my dunmer DK mages is that they are very good team players even at lower levels, but don't have quite the kick for good solo work. There is a LOT of group benefit here, but it's not in the traditional "tank" mold.

I always thought of DKs as tanks, and I don't care for that role. Now I'm sorry I waited so long to play around with them.

Bashev wrote: »

I bolded some part of your comment.
1 If I want to play as a Sors I can do it 10 times better on a Sors than a DK. I will have high defense and high DPS.
2 Inhale do not interupt WB and heavy attacks. The other skills with cast time or channel that it can interrupt are templar healing ultimate and radiant destruction. The skill was designed 2 years ago and at that time there were a lot more interruptible skills, now skills are either not interruptible or instant cast.
3 Petrify "can take someone out of the fight entirely till it wears off", this is not true even for NPCs cause even they use break free. What about the players. Even if somebody is out of stamina if you use it, it breaks on damage. It is not like fear.
4 Do you know how much is the damage shield from obsidian shield with 25k hp? 1.9k for allies and 3.8k for you. It is funny right?

I'm totally not a min-maxer. I play for the fun, and partly because of that, there are a lot of things in-game that I have not figured out how to do or gotten good at. So we appear to have very different playstyles.

1-I don't want to play "a sorc" or "a DPS", I (in the case with my two DKs) want to play a Dunmer wizard, and it makes sense to me that a dunmer wizard would be a fire mage.

2-Inhale's interupts are spells, not weapon attacks. Again - in IC there are a lot of enemy spellslingers.

3-"till it wears off" is something you have to watch for. Besides damage, casting it again on someone else will fry the original one. Also as far as CCing, the higher ranking (?level) dremora types will break out faster. It's best when you can 1-target a healer or an archer trying to hide, and 2-have really good group communication so a member of your own party doesn't mess it up.

4-Don't care that it's not a ton of damage, I'm just happy that I can sheild that many. And frankly with that amount of people, having too much would be a bad thing.

Ishammael wrote: »

So much misinformation in this thread its unreal.


8. If you're not playing at the vet 16 level, you're not relevant here. This is end-game discussion. Everything is viable in BWB.

I wish that this point was checked for before player are allowed to post.

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

I don't want to play FOTM builds and want to sick with my DK, but the continual nerfs make the class less viable and wanting to be effective in PvP pushes them into a very small niche role.

I can understand and identify with not wanting to be the FOTM - and part of the "cost" for that is the much slower exploration of what works, and can it work over time. If you don't have a similarly minded-group - it gets even tougher.

That being said, my goal is to play with friends (new and old) and have a good time.

Sometimes that means learning new skills, sometimes it means choosing the more enjoyable session over the maxed out DPS or treasure farming session.

I will say that my experience of PvP in IC is very very different than my experience of PvP in Cyrodiil. Just as undaunted dungeons are quite different from say, main line questing.

newtinmpls wrote: »

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

Some quick facts for people that struggle understanding class balance:

• 1-DKs are un-mobile
• 2-DKs are supposed to be in-your-face
• 3-DKs have heavy DoTs & close range skills
• 4-DKs have only one, pathetic, distance ability
• 5-DKs have no class gap-closer
• 6-DKs are supposed to be tanky
• 7-DKs have reflect to defend against long range attacks
• 8-DKs now have very little to benefit groups
• 9-DKs have no realistic class execute
• 10-DKs resource management concept is supposed to be based around ultimate generation and battle roar
• 11-DKs are very limited in skill choice and builds to be effective

Note that I added numbers for ease of reference. I'm just starting to play a couple of dunmer magicka DKs as I explore IC, and this doesn't match my experience (and maybe I'm playing them all wrong. Who knows)...

I can't even. You admit you aren't min-maxer and just like to play for "fun". Fine and dandy. hooray. But how is it that you can say that the min-maxers are wrong? There are other ways to have "fun," such as trying to actually compete at the highest level.

Armitas wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

uso245 wrote: »

No sure why people are quoting and saying I'm angry and don't have a DK, I have a v16 of Templar, Sorc, and DK and v15 of NB. Also I was playing my magicka DK in PvP the other day. The only thing they really did was make it so DK's don't have god mode anymore so I don't see what the issue is here. haha

Bull crap. Post your build. So we can kindly throw the *** flag. Nice try.

His face book page doesn't work. The youtube channel has 1 dk video from 4-5 months ago and it's a stam WB dk and his twitter page says this dated on OCT 17. "Many have waited and now I can finally say I have come back to #ElderScrollsOnline and soon will be making PvP videos with friends/guildies"

So tired of it, just so tired. I dislike the generic forums more and more everyday.

Fixed the link the signature was going to an old url. However I am a busy person with work and classes hence why I can't be pumping out videos all the time like I used to.

EDIT: I don't make money off the videos (monetization turned off) so I can't rely on that to pay the bills