essenCe wrote: »

I thought I'd chime in on this and say I completely disagree with the OP.

I only have 33 CP. I rolled a DK last week, post patch I believe, I've leveled him to 37. I have no problems in pvp.

I have extended chains people off of walls - not keeps tho, true. Typically I silver bolts rose people while on reflective scale. They always back off.

My sustainability in battle is insane. I've gone verse 3 at a time and come out on top - even with NB fearing me and nerfing my armor.

I can even last up to a minute when largely outnumbered 10 to one. As far as I'm concerned the fact that I can even last that long against so many players at once is absolutely crazy.

I think this boils down to one thing - everyone hates change. But change happens. Read the patch notes, respec skills and attributes and go have some fun. Everything with DK is awesome IMO.

essenCe wrote: »

I thought I'd chime in on this and say I completely disagree with the OP.

I only have 33 CP. I rolled a DK last week, post patch I believe, I've leveled him to 37. I have no problems in pvp.

I have extended chains people off of walls - not keeps tho, true. Typically I silver bolts rose people while on reflective scale. They always back off.

My sustainability in battle is insane. I've gone verse 3 at a time and come out on top - even with NB fearing me and nerfing my armor.

I can even last up to a minute when largely outnumbered 10 to one. As far as I'm concerned the fact that I can even last that long against so many players at once is absolutely crazy.

I think this boils down to one thing - everyone hates change. But change happens. Read the patch notes, respec skills and attributes and go have some fun. Everything with DK is awesome IMO.

RapturousRex wrote: »

I dunno, in IC I tend to get dropped within seconds of someone looking at me, but I was on Thornblade on Xbone last night, in Cyrodil I didn't do too badly, not as good as I used to, but i wasn't as bad as I've been in IC.

I'm vet4, 37 Champ Points (which I took CP to mean).

Managed to last a couple of minutes in small skirmishes last night, had a 1 on 1 against a NB who was half decent, had to leap him off of a wall to kill him mind, but I was able to survive against him, which is my biggest issue, tanks who can't survive aren't much use.

Even lasted around a minute 3 on 1. Died like, but I lasted longer than I thought I would.

I know a lot of this is anecdotal, and there are definitely issues with the DK, it feels rudderless at the minute, like they don't have a clear picture of what they want it to do, but I'm happier than I was with it, whilst it's not good, it's better than I thought it was.

Now if only I could sort out my guys ridiculous balding haircut, he'd be golden.

MattyMatty wrote: »

I have posted a couple of times as I am new to ESO and started a Nord DK,just now restarted a Dark Elf DK, but the more I read the posts here I am thinking that the DK class has been ruined - am I right? And it is not being a DK now , especially as I am starting out new to this?

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up stamina DKs? Do you want to know why stamina DKs are actually pretty good? Because they do not use DK skills. When you say a DK with wrecking blow and flying blade is great, you are saying that wrecking blow and flying blade are good skills.

@Dracane - From what you write, it sounds like you do not have much experience at all trying to play a DK in PvP. Chains is a "great" PvP gapcloser? When was the last time you played a magicka DK? Beta? I don't know who @johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO is, but it's evident he has played a magicka DK and you have not.

Fellow Templars, I know our class has its issues, but the magicka version of the class is miles ahead of the DK; they are not even in the same league. A magicka templar has a class gap closer that allows they to dual wield swords for spell damage instead of wasting their stamina on a low damage version. A magicka templar can actually use their class skill to heal themselves. Puncturing sweep > whip spam. Templars have an execute. Templars cleanse DKs silly Dots.

Magicka DKs were actually quite limited in 1.6; the illusion of a powerful DK was kept alive by experienced players who perma-blocked in heavy armor, but even in doing so they didn't really kill many opponents and had no choice but to die gloriously when they got zerged.

I said it's a 2 in 1 gap closer. You either pull your target or bring yourself do it. Chains have something special and I like it.
The only nerf in the world I can recognize on my DK is the stamina block thing. I am still playing dual wield flame DK and I used to blockcast back in 1.6. And to be honest, I only needed this against Sorcerers and other projectile casters. Well, now I have to use scales, which kills my damage a bit.

But it is a better protection against them than blocking, because it makes me immune to their most important damage and when timed right, I can use their own damage against them. Melees however are harder. My way of dealing with them is too put so much pressure on them, that they need to play defensive, which is easy to achieve. The reason why I still play Magicka DK is a simple thing: Detection potions aren't available with Stamina restore. And I NEED those or the master race destroys me. There are tooooo many Nightblades, going without this is suicide for me.

You said chains was a "great" 2 in 1 gap closer. How in the world you think it is beneficial to have a skill perform inconsistently and *not* know what will happen when you use it is beyond me, but I can assure you that most people use these skills tacticly when a general goal in mind (i.e. pull the bad guy to me and my allies or go over there to the bad guy) and this is a huge problem with chain .. when they actually do decide to work.

If the only nerf in the world you can recognize on your DK is the stamina blocking thing, you have zero clue about DKs. The OP may have been a bit zealous in explaining all the nerfs that have hit DKs, but he is not wrong. That list is correct and accurate. The OP did not even explain how the development / game mechanics changes in the game have eroded the effectiveness in DKs. The game was very different at launch, where softcaps, low resources, general player ignorance, emphasis on sustain over burst, high health pools, etc. were all facets of the game that favored DKs. That you would not want to use scales against a range projectile user is baffling.

NBs are destroying you because they are too strong or because they cloak, it is because the magicka DK is terribad right now

I think you should stop blaiming me for everything. Instead, you should question yourself on why you are not able to play it. I'm sorry

But yes, I agree on Nightblades. Can't enlighten you on that.
It's ridiculous all Stamblades claim they can only cloak 3 times. SHUT UP ! They can cloak infinitely and permadodge like they did before. I see it everyday, they evade everything and bump out too much damage at the same time.
Sorry, I can't enlighten you on how to kill Nightblades. Especially since most people play Nightblades.

Mistype. I don't think stamblades are too strong. I don't need help killing them.

I'm not blaming you. I'm pointing out the highly debatable assertions that you make without anything more than vague anecdotal substantiation.

What is vague ? I explained what I am doing and why I'm doing what I am doing..... but of course, I am lying right ? Pff
Just PLAY goddammit, play. Flame DK is extremely strong. But stamina has more dangerous tools of course,

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

I've stuck with my DK through thick and thin since launch. Yes, the DK renaissance was good.

The whining, here on the forums, especially from the dark brotherhood / rouge role-players, have resulted in many excessive nerfs and have cost us much. The time of staying in the shadows and keeping quite, is over. I don't want to play FOTM builds and want to sick with my DK, but the continual nerfs make the class less viable and wanting to be effective in PvP pushes them into a very small niche role.


Some quick facts for people that struggle understanding class balance:

• DKs are un-mobile and near unkillable when they block (cause when do DKs block
• DKs are supposed to be in-your-face did this change ultimate that ignore 100% armor + Steel Tornado
• DKs have heavy DoTs & close range skills
• DKs have only one, pathetic, distance ability
• DKs have no class gap-closer So that class power that pulls players to you or you to them don't cover that whole closing of the gap thing okay
• DKs are supposed to be tanky Really is this not the case still... really DKs are not Tanky
• DKs have reflect to defend against long range attacks and solo flip resource standing next to the wall and sending back every attack taking zero damage
• DKs now have very little to benefit groups Nightblades have fear and fear for that role see how many we have
• DKs have no realistic class execute So you want to be unkillable you now Tanky and execute everyone okay got it
• DKs resource management concept is supposed to be based around ultimate generation and battle roar
• DKs are very limited in skill choice and builds to be effective yea stamina builds wih 3k damage and 60% crit is rare like magic with 2k spell damage and 38k magic

What nerfs is this DK on about? He's just QQing, right?

• too much sustain and resources? = Battle Roar - nerfed. yea perma blocking magic builds with limitless stamina, IDK why that was nerfed
• getting pulled off walls when wanting to imperviously pew pew their attackers? = Extended Chains - nerfed. so you scales don't already countered range you need to pull them off a wall into melee range, so what no Archers in you Alliance to counter Snipe??
• ultimates deal too much damage to huggers? = Magma Shell - nerfed. So you yourself say you are an in your face class but now people in your face are huggers cause it now fits your point??
• shields return damage to your hugs? = Fragmented Shield - nerfed. read above
• wanting to pew pew an un-mobile class from stealth/long range? = Reflect - nerfed. had zero to do with Magic DKs showing off the power to take a resource with one button and count to four
• ultimates used too often against hippy huggers?* = Ultimate Generation via Crits - removed. once again I go back to your in your face comment
  
• countering shield stackers with close range abilities that ignore shields is too annoying? = Lava Whip - nerfed. ignoring both shields and roll dodge a spamable power that take all your defense away seem fair
• get leaped to when wanting to imperviously pew pew their attackers from high walls? = Dragon Leap (an ultimate) - nerfed. You know what I agree with you here you can leap in to Keep, But I should be able to Ambush up your walls it's only fair
• too many DoTs? = Flames of Oblivion - nerfed. yea cause no one runs this [power at all anymore
• a support ability to increase group's damage? = Molten Weapons - nerfed. ignoring that 3k weapon damage builds that used that from stealth and one shotted better then Nightblades or gave your Tank build good damage with all the "Tankiness"
• too much sustain and idiots can't kill 'top-level' DKs? = Dragon Blood - nerfed. everyone's heals were cut 50%
• close range DoTs hit too hard? = Unstable Flame & Burning Breath - switched to stamina. how dare people with the have stamina class powers, who do they thing they are
• 20% dodge chance in a defensive fixed position too annoying? = Cinder Storm - nerfed. yes forcing all players to Melee is just not good enough better add a 20% miss chance and when they do land a hit it's on the Tankiness class in the game
• able to interrupt multiple people from range? = Eruption - nerfed.
• still too much sustain and resources? = Battle Roar - nerfed again. ignoring the DKs 2.1 unlimited stamina builds that are out okay
• still too many ultimates used? = Ultimate costs - increased. joking aside the cost of y'alls good ultimates are too high
• looking for alternative ways to manage resources? = Werewolf's passive stamina regen & Vampires regen - nerfed.again joking aside the Vampire regen was fine as you always took more fire damage and Fighter guild powers alway hurt, but WW you got 15% stamina regen with no bonus poison damage or needing to slot the ultimate
• still want to pew pew an un-mobile class from stealth? = Attacks from stealth now ignore reflect (and always crit) yea no as an Archer I would have noticed Snipe not slamming me in the face cause the DKs hit reflect for what ever reason
• can't deal enough damage and kill DKs that reduce the cost of blocking? = Block - nerfed.

again DKs have put out builds showing off just how much this nerf hurts them
*yes i know another reason was healing springs spammers abused this for ultimate generation between fights


Other gripes:

• "Draw on your draconic blood to heal 33% of missing Health" should heal 33% of missing health and not 16%.
• too much damage to mindless yolo-ers charging into large AoE groups? Impulse = range nerfed. This dealt less damage than steel tornado and had the same range... but only impulse got nerfed. So now we have similar problems with a new generation of mindless drones spamming the same skill in large numbers. Fun and sporting gameplay? #SteelTornadoDrones #STDs #hashtag #imhipandrelevantbecauseiusehashtags

For those that will use the age-old 'perma-bats/banners' argument: DKs didn't create this problem nor did we exploit it (the minority that abused a 98% ultimate cost reduction were other classes too).

The backlash from our finest hour has been excessive in my opinion and has put us in a very dark place. Will the sun ever shine on our class again?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Orchish wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You may say RIP but i've come across stam dk's who spam WB and use caltrop's/immovable/reflect. As a nightblade, there is nothing i can really do.

So maybe in certain situation's they can be bad but the one's who use talon's and caltrop's have great success.

I am currently building my nb around to counter dk's. They are the only one's who can effectively kill me at this point.

If your class is terrible at sustain, you will probably loose to a dk. That's the way i see it.

The ironic thing here is that only 1 of those abilities is a DK class ability. That is exactly why DK needs help. Magicka DK is in a bad spot, yet every one says stam DK is fine. No it's not fine, my stam DK uses only 3 class abilities and that's including my ultimate dragon leap. The majority of stam DK's are forced to fill their bars up with non class abilities just to remain competitive. We are basically not DKs anymore just a standard stamina class. no variety what so ever.

Zlater wrote: »

I dont play a DK, but something I notice is that they are pretty useless, that's coming from a sorc main.
When I'm healing I notice DK tanks are soo needy and go squish too easily compared to anything else.
Umm lol only Temps and Some NB's are used for healers these days, with the very rare exception ofc.
Thankfully though Dunmer DK DD's arent too shabby, not the best, but not too horrid as long as you build well.

Alucardo wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I would argue that templar has the same issues and more broken skills, now and over its history. Templar has never had aglory day, apart from the healing role, and sadly a lot of out of class abilities are better choices. Playing templar warrior build, either as tank or dps just is not what it use to be. I feel your pain, but honestly i find dk still very easy to play, and vastly more synergistic with its abilities. Before anyone mentions the laserbeam, consider that we lost a tank ability to get it, one that was a deeply flawed analog of blur/cinders. As the warrior spec of templar i am more unhappy with the developments templar had gone through than any other class.

Why is it every time a DK makes a post to bring up the negative points of their class, a Templar decides to chime in? Please keep the focus on DK only here.

Thanks.