R.I.P. DK

Joy_Division · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up stamina DKs? Do you want to know why stamina DKs are actually pretty good? Because they do not use DK skills. When you say a DK with wrecking blow and flying blade is great, you are saying that wrecking blow and flying blade are good skills.

@Dracane - From what you write, it sounds like you do not have much experience at all trying to play a DK in PvP. Chains is a "great" PvP gapcloser? When was the last time you played a magicka DK? Beta? I don't know who @johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO is, but it's evident he has played a magicka DK and you have not.

Fellow Templars, I know our class has its issues, but the magicka version of the class is miles ahead of the DK; they are not even in the same league. A magicka templar has a class gap closer that allows they to dual wield swords for spell damage instead of wasting their stamina on a low damage version. A magicka templar can actually use their class skill to heal themselves. Puncturing sweep > whip spam. Templars have an execute. Templars cleanse DKs silly Dots.

Magicka DKs were actually quite limited in 1.6; the illusion of a powerful DK was kept alive by experienced players who perma-blocked in heavy armor, but even in doing so they didn't really kill many opponents and had no choice but to die gloriously when they got zerged.

I said it's a 2 in 1 gap closer. You either pull your target or bring yourself do it. Chains have something special and I like it.
The only nerf in the world I can recognize on my DK is the stamina block thing. I am still playing dual wield flame DK and I used to blockcast back in 1.6. And to be honest, I only needed this against Sorcerers and other projectile casters. Well, now I have to use scales, which kills my damage a bit.

But it is a better protection against them than blocking, because it makes me immune to their most important damage and when timed right, I can use their own damage against them. Melees however are harder. My way of dealing with them is too put so much pressure on them, that they need to play defensive, which is easy to achieve. The reason why I still play Magicka DK is a simple thing: Detection potions aren't available with Stamina restore. And I NEED those or the master race destroys me. There are tooooo many Nightblades, going without this is suicide for me.

You said chains was a "great" 2 in 1 gap closer. How in the world you think it is beneficial to have a skill perform inconsistently and *not* know what will happen when you use it is beyond me, but I can assure you that most people use these skills tacticly when a general goal in mind (i.e. pull the bad guy to me and my allies or go over there to the bad guy) and this is a huge problem with chain .. when they actually do decide to work.

If the only nerf in the world you can recognize on your DK is the stamina blocking thing, you have zero clue about DKs. The OP may have been a bit zealous in explaining all the nerfs that have hit DKs, but he is not wrong. That list is correct and accurate. The OP did not even explain how the development / game mechanics changes in the game have eroded the effectiveness in DKs. The game was very different at launch, where softcaps, low resources, general player ignorance, emphasis on sustain over burst, high health pools, etc. were all facets of the game that favored DKs. That you would not want to use scales against a range projectile user is baffling.

NBs are destroying you because they are too strong or because they cloak, it is because the magicka DK is terribad right now

I think you should stop blaiming me for everything. Instead, you should question yourself on why you are not able to play it. I'm sorry

But yes, I agree on Nightblades. Can't enlighten you on that.
It's ridiculous all Stamblades claim they can only cloak 3 times. SHUT UP ! They can cloak infinitely and permadodge like they did before. I see it everyday, they evade everything and bump out too much damage at the same time.
Sorry, I can't enlighten you on how to kill Nightblades. Especially since most people play Nightblades.

Mistype. I don't think stamblades are too strong. I don't need help killing them.

I'm not blaming you. I'm pointing out the highly debatable assertions that you make without anything more than vague anecdotal substantiation.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

Honestly, the only thing that was nerfed is the damage. Everything else, such as the tank aspect, is there. There are some DKs out there that can camp one spot and not take any damage at all. I've seen them eat Cold Shot upon Cold shot and just heal it up.

Dracane · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Why do people keep bringing up stamina DKs? Do you want to know why stamina DKs are actually pretty good? Because they do not use DK skills. When you say a DK with wrecking blow and flying blade is great, you are saying that wrecking blow and flying blade are good skills.

@Dracane - From what you write, it sounds like you do not have much experience at all trying to play a DK in PvP. Chains is a "great" PvP gapcloser? When was the last time you played a magicka DK? Beta? I don't know who @johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO is, but it's evident he has played a magicka DK and you have not.

Fellow Templars, I know our class has its issues, but the magicka version of the class is miles ahead of the DK; they are not even in the same league. A magicka templar has a class gap closer that allows they to dual wield swords for spell damage instead of wasting their stamina on a low damage version. A magicka templar can actually use their class skill to heal themselves. Puncturing sweep > whip spam. Templars have an execute. Templars cleanse DKs silly Dots.

Magicka DKs were actually quite limited in 1.6; the illusion of a powerful DK was kept alive by experienced players who perma-blocked in heavy armor, but even in doing so they didn't really kill many opponents and had no choice but to die gloriously when they got zerged.

I said it's a 2 in 1 gap closer. You either pull your target or bring yourself do it. Chains have something special and I like it.
The only nerf in the world I can recognize on my DK is the stamina block thing. I am still playing dual wield flame DK and I used to blockcast back in 1.6. And to be honest, I only needed this against Sorcerers and other projectile casters. Well, now I have to use scales, which kills my damage a bit.

But it is a better protection against them than blocking, because it makes me immune to their most important damage and when timed right, I can use their own damage against them. Melees however are harder. My way of dealing with them is too put so much pressure on them, that they need to play defensive, which is easy to achieve. The reason why I still play Magicka DK is a simple thing: Detection potions aren't available with Stamina restore. And I NEED those or the master race destroys me. There are tooooo many Nightblades, going without this is suicide for me.

You said chains was a "great" 2 in 1 gap closer. How in the world you think it is beneficial to have a skill perform inconsistently and *not* know what will happen when you use it is beyond me, but I can assure you that most people use these skills tacticly when a general goal in mind (i.e. pull the bad guy to me and my allies or go over there to the bad guy) and this is a huge problem with chain .. when they actually do decide to work.

If the only nerf in the world you can recognize on your DK is the stamina blocking thing, you have zero clue about DKs. The OP may have been a bit zealous in explaining all the nerfs that have hit DKs, but he is not wrong. That list is correct and accurate. The OP did not even explain how the development / game mechanics changes in the game have eroded the effectiveness in DKs. The game was very different at launch, where softcaps, low resources, general player ignorance, emphasis on sustain over burst, high health pools, etc. were all facets of the game that favored DKs. That you would not want to use scales against a range projectile user is baffling.

NBs are destroying you because they are too strong or because they cloak, it is because the magicka DK is terribad right now

I think you should stop blaiming me for everything. Instead, you should question yourself on why you are not able to play it. I'm sorry

But yes, I agree on Nightblades. Can't enlighten you on that.
It's ridiculous all Stamblades claim they can only cloak 3 times. SHUT UP ! They can cloak infinitely and permadodge like they did before. I see it everyday, they evade everything and bump out too much damage at the same time.
Sorry, I can't enlighten you on how to kill Nightblades. Especially since most people play Nightblades.

Mistype. I don't think stamblades are too strong. I don't need help killing them.

I'm not blaming you. I'm pointing out the highly debatable assertions that you make without anything more than vague anecdotal substantiation.

What is vague ? I explained what I am doing and why I'm doing what I am doing..... but of course, I am lying right ? Pff
Just PLAY goddammit, play. Flame DK is extremely strong. But stamina has more dangerous tools of course,

Armitas · October 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think DK is far from being R.I.P.
They are the hardest class to play when played right, have the highest DPS and can be super dangerous in pvp.
DK has the crown in 2 roles, tanking and DD. What more could a class ask for ?

Agreed. DK was so far ahead of the other classes that even now they reign supreme at resource management.

How can you even say that as a Sorc with 5% reduce cost, 20% stam recovery, 20% health recovery and 10% magicka recovery and stam/magicka exchange.

That is outrageous. We have 0 generic reductions or recoveries. All we have is a magicka cast that returns 5% stamina, and battle roar that returns a % of each specific stat. Helping hands is inefficient. If you are in a magicka build the cost is easy but the return is little, if you are in a stamina build the return is high but the cost for the skill is also high. If you are in a magicka build with battle roar the stam return is low and the same if you are in a magicka build.

Sensesfail13 · October 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Rayste wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I think DK is far from being R.I.P.
They are the hardest class to play when played right, have the highest DPS and can be super dangerous in pvp.
DK has the crown in 2 roles, tanking and DD. What more could a class ask for ?

Agreed. DK was so far ahead of the other classes that even now they reign supreme at resource management.

How can you even say that as a Sorc with 5% reduce cost, 20% stam recovery, 20% health recovery and 10% magicka recovery and exchange.

That is outrageous. We have 0 generic reductions or recoveries. All we have is a magicka cast that returns 5% stamina, and battle roar that returns a % of each specific stat. Helping hands is inefficient. If you are in a magicka build the cost is easy but the return is little, if you are in a stamina build the return is high but the cost for the skill is also high. If you are in a magicka build with battle roar the stam return is low and the same if you are in a magicka build.

The guy is a lemming like so many others that play this game, they dont care they just want to see the world burn. As long as its alright for their class everything is fine and dandy and everybody else is a hacker/exploiter/OP.

TheShorion · October 2015

Umm, my 140 cp magika dk with v12 gear still beats just about any dps I have played with.

You will not be able to do the dps that PC players do on console becuase we cannot tell how long our dots are on the target. Though you still can kick ass if you just keep the rotation simple.

If found using two batches of dots keeps my dps better than yours

note: this is my personal roation

First round:
(Sea of Flames AND Inner Light active)
Engulfing Flames 10 sec
Searing Strike 10 sec
Elemental Drain 21 sec
Eruption 18 sec
Lava Whip about 6-7 times
Engulfing Flames
Searing Strike
Lava whip about 6-7 times

-or- for health and Spell power if no potions. Needs lvl 10 mages guild (sea of flames and structured entrophy)

Engulfing Flames
Structured Entrophy
Searing Strike
Elemental Drain
Structured
Eruption
Lava Whip about 6-7 times
Engulfing Flames
Structured
Searing Strike
Lava whip about 6-7 times

On paper the top rotation does a little bit more dps if you have 47second spell power pots. Since the extra 7% magika will apply to your lava whips, and engulfing flames.

With either set make sure you double tap inner light or use structured entropy before using your standard or meteor.

Armitas · October 2015

seriously, how many more battle leveled players are we gonna hear from. oh pve.

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Honestly, the only thing that was nerfed is the damage. Everything else, such as the tank aspect, is there. There are some DKs out there that can camp one spot and not take any damage at all. I've seen them eat Cold Shot upon Cold shot and just heal it up.

Yes, if you'd have read the rest of the thread... you'd know that no body is complaining about their ability at taking a beating... HOWEVER... Magicka DKs deal extremely minimal damage in PvP because their heavy close range DoTs can be removed almost immediately. They're un-mobile, so its hard to get away, and have no gap closer.

So what you are saying.. and opening you eyes to the other side of the game (AvAvA&PvP)... DKs are completely fine because they can tank damage well.

Let me know when you play DK in Cyrodiil as a tank when you're battle level wears off. Especially how much challenging fights & fun you have.

You have a choice between:

being forced to use stamina (inefficiently relative to other classes using a similar build)
running in a single-minded swarm punching the same two buttons over and over.
spend your entire time being a punch-bag and if nobody else comes to kill the thing hitting you... you're going to die

FYI: you don't get any AP from blocking damage

Armitas · October 2015

DlSTORTlON wrote: »

FYI: you don't get any AP from blocking damage

QFT

Joy_Division · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

What is vague ? I explained what I am doing and why I'm doing what I am doing..... but of course, I am lying right ? Pff
Just PLAY goddammit, play. Flame DK is extremely strong. But stamina has more dangerous tools of course,

Here is what is vague.

Dracane wrote: »

I think DK is far from being R.I.P.
...have the highest DPS and can be super dangerous in pvp.

The first statement is irrelevant for PvP as magicka DK DPS requires opponents to 1) stand inside their standard, 2) a perfect rotation (not going to happen with intelligent and unpredictable enemies) 3) not cleanse/purge their dots 4) a pocket healer running elemental drain. The second statement says nothing and applies to any class played by someone with experience.

Dracane wrote: »

As I said, they are the most superior class in 2/3 rolls and very strong in pvp. (People saying Magicka NB is bad needs to get some lessons)

Just because you said it, that does not make it true or self-evident.

Dracane wrote: »

My boyfriend is a stamina DK and omg, nobody puts so much pressure on me.

Stamina.

Dracane wrote: »

Dk has so many overpowered Dots

What Dot in this game is overpowered? Which DK Dot even remotely qualifies to be overpowered? Do you mean eruption which enemies move out of? Engulfing Flame or searing strike that gets cleansed/purged? Or the dots that don't even do any damage because the opponent blocked them?

Dracane wrote: »

But [chains] still is a great 2 in 1 gap closer.
EACH gap closer shortly stuns the target and should grant immunity just like chains do. (yes, even critical rush does, it shortly roots the target)

So, why is chains great? How is the word great even applicable when many times the skill does not work at all, let alone being unpredictable and granting your opponent CC immunity without CCing them?

Dracane wrote: »

I only try being realistic. Other classes got nerfed into the ground, DK is not amongst them.

This is just wrong. Tell us, how have NBs gotten nerfed into the ground? Sorcs...ehem Negate Monkeys...were in a bad way before 1.5. Sure we (I play one) can't streak across the map, but literally every other skill they use got buffed - even their best ones - and the better sorcs do not need to streak more than twice anyway. Templars can actually DPS instead of just being heal bots. You have it backwards. Dk is the only class that is worse off now (and it is far worse) than last year at this time.

Dracane wrote: »

[Chains] a 2 in 1 gap closer. You either pull your target or bring yourself do it. Chains have something special and I like it.

OK, you like it. That's wonderful. Now explain to us who dislike the unpredictability of the skill that makes trying to use it tactically futile why it's great? Explain how this is balanced to the templar charge skill which always works and always stuns the target (when applicable). Incidentally, when the templar charge skill, the most notorious bugged skill in the game that has an annoying global cooldown associated with it, trumps something, then that other skill must be really bad.

Dracane wrote: »

The only nerf in the world I can recognize on my DK is the stamina block thing.

Did you even read the OP? Did you even play a DK before a couple of weeks ago?

*****

I don't think you are lying. I think you have a habit of making claims based on intuition rather than experience, which is why you use lots of adjectives but little analysis.

I am playing. My DK. Like I have since launch. That you could possibly say other classes were nerfed to the ground and the only nerf you can recognize on your DK is the stam penalty while blocking is a huge red flag that indicate you lack experience and perspective when it comes to DKs. Any experienced DK player who has actually played one in 2014 will say the following:

Magicka DKs have pretty much always been on top of the game in PVE DPS. This is still true right now and not in dispute.
This potential DPS is very difficult and impractical to translate in PvP because human opponents move out of standards, cleanse DoTs, and disrupt the perfect rotations needed for that DPS.
No class was hurt more by the change in dynamic ultimate regen. That change undercut the ability of DKs to compete against zergs as a primary means of sustain and the availability of their "tanky" ults dried up.
No class was hurt more by ZoS's shift to plentiful resources and burst damage with 1.6. Magicka DKs do not burst and DKs won their battles by out-sustaining their opponents. Now most players do not run out of resources, which means a magicka DK has to bring her opponent(s) down by doing something the class was not designed for, all without an execute.
Green Dragon Blood was already barely functional as a heal in 1.6 because it was based on health (which was nerfed pretty heavily), whereas every other heal in the game is based off stamina/weapon power or magicka/spell power. With the new patch it is now worthless as it cannot do its intended purpose of a burst heal, not to mention it has fallen behind the other heals that have gotten better as players' stats have improved (except health). Magicka DKs now have to run around with resto staffs, which limits the build options available. That you could not recognize this is baffling.
While it is possible to make a odd magicka "tank" build running around with a resto staff, possible to make a magicka DPS build gimped by no gap closer or execute, possible to still be decent in a group raid that will disguise the class weaknesses - this is not in dispute - it is unnecessarily hard, cumbersome, and the resulting build will relatively less effective than the other three classes. No range, no reliable gap closer, no practical execute, no decent self-heal, no mobility, no class burst damage, where are you getting all of this?

At some point this becomes tiresome. It is not fun feeling like you have to play with one-hand tied behind your back. Not fun to be stuck with the stigma of being perceived as OP when those days are long gone. This isn't a job, a relationship, or a venture that holds the promise of a better future for "sticking it out" through the tough times. It's just a game. There are better and more productive things to do that trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.

Armitas · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think you are lying. I think you have a habit of making claims based on intuition rather than experience, which is why you use lots of adjectives but little analysis.

This. Drac, you make really good posts all the time, but when it comes to commenting on the DK you are relying on skill sheets and impressions, not direct or lengthy experience. A lot of people respect what you say, including myself, so when you say stuff people are likely to assume it's true. However what is true on character sheets, is not necessarily true in actuality. There is a big divide there that simple investigation won't overcome.

DlSTORTlON · October 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I don't think you are lying. I think you have a habit of making claims based on intuition rather than experience, which is why you use lots of adjectives but little analysis.

This. Drac, you make really good posts all the time, but when it comes to commenting on the DK you are relying on skill sheets and impressions, not direct or lengthy experience. A lot of people respect what you say, including myself, so when you say stuff people are likely to assume it's true. However what is true on character sheets, is not necessarily true in actuality. There is a big divide there that simple investigation won't overcome.

@Dracane, If you're not sure or aren't qualified to comment on something other than just adapting hearsay... keep your hands away from your keyboard or use disclaimers. You just loose credibility otherwise.

Vangy · October 2015

Ive been playing DK for a year now but honestly, ive moved to stamina. Still boring as hell in pve compared to my sorc. Pretty much rally, searing strike, burning breath, wbx1000 then exec x1000. Keep up dots and rally while waiting for valkyns to proc. Reasonably effective but boring.... And lets not even talk about magicka DK pvp lol. Its so bad its kinda funny. Anyone who argues otherwise is either a "god-leetskillz-immawreckyourfacewith1000000cp" player, or are just trolls.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

puffy99 · October 2015

Magicka DK's are fun to play with dragons leap and all but yeah we are certainly squishy and as someone said before you have to have a resto staff to try for emergency heals. Just killed a Sorc in Cyrodill 1x1 and the rotation was talons, embers, whip, talons, ember, whip - oh god emergency heal and this time lucky with soul assault, chase the sorc... talons, whip, dead.
Thank god talons still works mostly..

Against NB that is a lot more difficult.

willymchilybily · October 2015

Its magicka DK, in PVP that i think is...challenging. because they cant do damage (burst) and having 4 dots on your bar isnt going to cut it

and stamina DK before unlocking vigor i think will be horrid, but least you can dodge and block and WB spam with your tiny ticks from rally.

No im not comparing it to some 1.5 glory day im on console, just with the changes to healing and to damage/ultimate regen we are in a bad spot. i have much utility but am struggling to kill. and in pvp the class heal is not viable at all. so where at least i couldnt kill but didnt need to use a resto staff now i can kill and need to use a resto staff.

ill adapt and plow on but i agree with the op. If i had an alt at VR16 my DK would be my crafting mule right now. and what happens when you remove 1 class from a game that is rock scissors and paper is another class looks "OP"

J'skaar Habasi · October 2015

Never thought I'd live to see this post. I'll concede your point that magicka DK has been nerfed the most this year. I hope you all can admit that the changes made by ZOS have spawned a variety of builds that is good for the game. We now have a viable stamina and magicka version of each class.

Some of us remember being on the bad side of the DK glory days. It was not fun to ambush a DK for no damage, then get caught in talons and flame lashed to death. It was not fun to get caught in the Impulse - Bat Swarm train either.

Dks have had it so good for so long. I know this is a PvP discussion, but I recall seeing a recent video of the Mantikora going down in a little over a minute with what seemed to be 24 standards dropped on him. When you're still at the top of the DPS heap in PvE, I'm sorry you're not going to get a lot of sympathy from me. All I can say is buy a copy of the Nightblade's guide to complaining on the forums.

I'll happily die to the Sorc using Steel Tornado or a stamina templar than go back to the days when this guy ruled Cyrodiil:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nlp4gz4kvKk

themdogesbite · October 2015

J'skaar Habasi wrote: »

Never thought I'd live to see this post. I'll concede your point that magicka DK has been nerfed the most this year. I hope you all can admit that the changes made by ZOS have spawned a variety of builds that is good for the game. We now have a viable stamina and magicka version of each class.

Some of us remember being on the bad side of the DK glory days. It was not fun to ambush a DK for no damage, then get caught in talons and flame lashed to death. It was not fun to get caught in the Impulse - Bat Swarm train either.

Dks have had it so good for so long. I know this is a PvP discussion, but I recall seeing a recent video of the Mantikora going down in a little over a minute with what seemed to be 24 standards dropped on him. When you're still at the top of the DPS heap in PvE, I'm sorry you're not going to get a lot of sympathy from me. All I can say is buy a copy of the Nightblade's guide to complaining on the forums.

I'll happily die to the Sorc using Steel Tornado or a stamina templar than go back to the days when this guy ruled Cyrodiil:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Nlp4gz4kvKk

Funny, a nightblade complaning about DK glory days but seemingly ignoring the days of 110% dmg mitigation NBs..

jelliedsoup · October 2015

I remember them ~ they were those guys being attacked by 20 people when this game was released.

Tdroid · October 2015

Just a question; why is the imbalances of the past relevant for the inbalances for the present? Karma?

As for game balance, I think that the first thing ZoS needs to do to balance the game is to bring back the soft caps and severely reduce the impact of CP(say, max 10%, so it is still rewarding to have, but not absurd like it is now).

The game's lack of longer cooldowns(save for the hidden global cooldown) requires another way to force resource management, and I think this was done fairly well when we still had the soft caps, since they you could only regen so much. Now, with the CPs being added and the soft caps returned, people are free to have builds that both never runs out of resources and do good burst damage. For PvP, this is about as imbalanced as it gets and severely disadvantages certain classes and builds over others.

MagKnights requires a sustained rotation for good DPS, a rotation that is based around the enemy not moving much, or at least moving in predictable patterns that can be learned. This is their strength in PvE, and does not apply to PvP, since in PvP, burst is the only relevant word for damage dealing. And MagKnight don't really have that.

StamKnights are effectively limited to being 2-handed or DW warriors, with minimal class skills used. 2-handed and DW are great skills, I agree. Being entirely reliant on them for DPS is not good design, unless you make a class specifically designed to be a classical "warrior".Which seems to be against the idea of the classes in this game.

willymchilybily · October 2015

Tdroid wrote: »

Just a question; why is the imbalances of the past relevant for the inbalances for the present? Karma?

it simply isn't. especially if you account for console users who have only had from 1.6 on wards so no glory days.

tangy.citrus · October 2015

(PVE) DK is still the highest dps in the game right now, and the best tank. You're just whining because you cant play easy now and 2 hit targets you have to actually have skill and use a weave of attacks to take down targets. Its good that ZOS isnt spoon feeding the casuals anymore.

danny2096 · October 2015

The thing is. If you throw heavy armour on and put all your points into health. Then your a tank so nothing special there and then you can go an use a 2 hand sword which also everyone can use so we haven't got high dps because there is nothing in our skill line we can choose apart from dots so if you want to be a DK with any class then throw all yoir points into health and wear heavy armour. Your then classed as a tank

jakeedmundson · October 2015

tangy.citrus wrote: »

(PVE) DK is still the highest dps in the game right now, and the best tank. You're just whining because you cant play easy now and 2 hit targets you have to actually have skill and use a weave of attacks to take down targets. Its good that ZOS isnt spoon feeding the casuals anymore.

Just to add to this...
I tanked all the way up until the 1.7 patch using crafted and some dungeon gear. (I probably wasn't the absolute best but we could get through all the dungeons) After that patch... even with gear, skill, and rotation changes tanking is a huge pain in the A. I struggled to stay alive in many situations. So, I completely dropped it. Went to DW/2h stamina dps. Not only can i stay alive longer... i can actually do damage.
While in tank spec... i could do little damage (which is expected) but i would also have to fight to stay alive before i could kill regular questing type enemies that were even below my level.

If some of the other DK's can still tank the vet dungeons... great. But this patch made A LOT of people respec away from tanking.
I found myself constantly struggling for resources... keeping up taunts, keeping up buffs, trying to HELP with damage, and blocking when i have huge groups and/or heavy attacks coming in... it just seemed like a lost cause.
Plus, if you don't do pvp for the gear... you're screwed anyway. A lot of the best gear comes from pvp rewards or telvar stones now. Both of these are pvp related.

And as far as "Spoon feeding the casuals" goes.... REALLY? who do you think FEEDS this company money? All the "hardcore" players out there couldn't support this games cost on their own. the casual player base makes up the majority of ANY game. It only makes sense to allow the majority to actually play through the game.
What makes someone a casual player anyway? I probably play a few hours every day and that seems like too much... if you spend all day and night on there to feel proud... you might have a problem/addiction.

Vangy · October 2015

I used to be hardcore. Now I have a job + wife and that makes me casual lol. And I do sympathise with the feeling of a lot of the hardcore players but tbh, like many have pointed out, the $$ comes mostly from the casual base.

Do I like the cp cap? Yes
Do I like the damage nerfs to pvp? Yes
Do I expect to clear content with a reasonable amount of effort? Yes

You don't like my carebear attitude? Too bad. It's people like me that pay the bills for this game. When u live under our roof you play by our rules. Deal with it.

MattyMatty · October 2015

Hi all, New here. read this earlier today on my dinnerbreak and though I a only a Lvl7 Nord DK with Heavy Armour and 2Handed, I am thinking am I making a mistake with my current build if so many abilities etc have been nerfed according to Distortion's very first post?
I want to have a character where I am not going to put points into abilities that just don't work...
Is it a bad idea to continue with my current character or start a new one now before wasting anymore time - I want to do both PvE and PvP

Sorry if my question seems a bit clueless but guilty as charged I am brand new to MMO's and to this game (even though I have played ES since chapter 1 Arena in the 90's and every chapter since, this one I am finding harder to get my head round character builds)

jakeedmundson · October 2015

MattyMatty wrote: »

Hi all, New here. read this earlier today on my dinnerbreak and though I a only a Lvl7 Nord DK with Heavy Armour and 2Handed, I am thinking am I making a mistake with my current build if so many abilities etc have been nerfed according to Distortion's very first post?
I want to have a character where I am not going to put points into abilities that just don't work...
Is it a bad idea to continue with my current character or start a new one now before wasting anymore time - I want to do both PvE and PvP

Sorry if my question seems a bit clueless but guilty as charged I am brand new to MMO's and to this game (even though I have played ES since chapter 1 Arena in the 90's and every chapter since, this one I am finding harder to get my head round character builds)

This game is pretty different from any other ES game.
But it seems like builds generally go like this...

want to heal... make a templar
want ranged dps... make a sorc
want melee dps... dragonknight or night blade (dragonknight is more "in your face" fighting while night blade is quick on the feet kind of fighting)
want to tank?.... generally a nord/imperial/orc dragon knight... but there's some debates lately on tanking

MattyMatty · October 2015

Thanks for that Jake

But I still don't know where the DK class stands as far as all the Nerfed abilities that are listed by the postholder in their opening message - do they mean a load of abilities for DK are useless now or next to useless as I don't want to build a DK character that has useless abilities!!?

jakeedmundson · October 2015

MattyMatty wrote: »

Thanks for that Jake

But I still don't know where the DK class stands as far as all the Nerfed abilities that are listed by the postholder in their opening message - do they mean a load of abilities for DK are useless now or next to useless as I don't want to build a DK character that has useless abilities!!?

I really don't think all DK class abilities are useless... Some need changes but i'm sure they will be better down the road. So, don't even worry about that stuff. It's my only veteran 16 character and i still enjoy playing it.

But just be aware of which class and race you choose. The race really makes a big difference for the type of character you want to play.
IF you like the DK abilities and want to tank... stick with your nord. If you like the DK and want to do dps... pick the dark elf race - they get 9% racial benefit to fire damage (DK is ALL about fire damage)

MattyMatty · October 2015

I have always played a Nord in ES as my first and foremost characters and tried others as backups, so naturally went the same this time, but I want to make more use of these fire abilities that I have been looking at such as Searing Strike and Fiery Breath for example.
Plus though if being a Tank by sticking with my Nord means just relying more on taking hits and doing physical damage as a way to fight and survive (especially in PvP) - VS - using Fire abilities more as a Dark Elf but not being as tough or tank-like which means trying more to survive from damage taken - well I think I might restart and give Dark Elf a go as it sounds a more fun type build to play and also more fun in there maybe being more challenge...?