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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Are people starting to give up on ZOS?
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭
That's true. But it's a good story and the content is so true.
Learn from the master:
First Rule of Usability? Don't Listen to UsersFounder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That's true. But it's a good story and the content is so true.
Learn from the master:
First Rule of Usability? Don't Listen to Users
You keep using that but it doesn't apply.1 -
Stikato✭✭✭✭✭The difference is, we aren't trying to design a game. We are giving feedback between where a game is now, and where it used to be. People are frustrated, and articulating their frustration. No one is suggesting they can program or design better than professionals.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2013/12/19/myth-busted-steve-jobs-did-listen-to-customers/
Mordimus - Stam Sorc2 -
AssaultLemming✭✭✭✭I gave up after IC proved to be nothing but a massive PvE grind festival that destroyed PvP in cyro. The lack of PvP objectives, making Ap worthless, the only good new gear being from PvE dungeons and endless PvE mob grinding at the same time as am across the board nerf to existing builds. Bah, better games to spend my time on now.3
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭
That's true. But it's a good story and the content is so true.
Learn from the master:
First Rule of Usability? Don't Listen to Users
You keep using that but it doesn't apply.
And why would it not apply?
Did the players study game development? What do they know about game UX?
No, they didn't and like Manuel from Barcelona they "know nothing" about game UX.
Why would you ask a non-qualified one some advice?
Imagine doctors, engineers, airplane pilots or architects would work like that way...
It starts already with asking an 'opinion'. Opinion are worth nothing. But they are easy, because everyone has an opinion.
What matters are facts. Players are like religious zealots. While a competent dev team works like scientists.Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/1 -
A small minority? So do you think the majority of people that have tried ESO think its great?
Dude,
Yes, the majority is satisfied.
Positive: 177
Neutral: 23
Negative: 53
Source:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited
It's interesting you bring up metacritic. I hadn't really thought to look there really. What's interesting is some of the review dates....also that its for a game that's only existed since June 9th 2015.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online
Positive: 383 out of 864
Mixed: 144 out of 864
Negative: 337
whats interesting still is if you click to write a review another set of numbers pops up:
Positive: 1,050 out of 2338
Mixed: 360 out of 2338
Negative: 928
Sort of interesting it has 5.7 before they got to create a whole different entry for pretty much nothing more than an expansion and suddenly its a 7.84 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The difference is, we aren't trying to design a game. We are giving feedback between where a game is now, and where it used to be. People are frustrated, and articulating their frustration. No one is suggesting they can program or design better than professionals.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2013/12/19/myth-busted-steve-jobs-did-listen-to-customers/
That humbling though0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The difference is, we aren't trying to design a game. We are giving feedback between where a game is now, and where it used to be. People are frustrated, and articulating their frustration. No one is suggesting they can program or design better than professionals.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2013/12/19/myth-busted-steve-jobs-did-listen-to-customers/
That humbling though
REKT again. Can we finally get away with this imbecilic deification of developers? Everyone makes mistakes.
The "How dare you question the developers" type of argument is a stop thought. It doesn't promote the conversation. Neither does the other extreme of thinking they do everything wrong. Back on topic. Part of the issue is that ZOS seems to change its mind so much that I don't see how any one can find wisdom in their decisions. Flip Flops do not breed confidence.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on September 28, 2015 7:53AM1 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭The difference is, we aren't trying to design a game. We are giving feedback between where a game is now, and where it used to be. People are frustrated, and articulating their frustration. No one is suggesting they can program or design better than professionals.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/drewhansen/2013/12/19/myth-busted-steve-jobs-did-listen-to-customers/
Steve never has listen to customers like you pretend ZOS should listen to you.
You know what Steve did?
He and his army of engineers, designers and others created things gave it to people who fit in the target-group. Gave them tasks and watched them using the new device or software. They created notes about where those people failed or had difficulties.
Steve and his team went back to the drawing board, fixed stuff and returned to the test users. He repeated everything again till he was satisfied.
What he didn't do was listen to the 'solutions' or 'opinions' from the customers.
But he really took care about the customer by watching them using his stuff.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »
A small minority? So do you think the majority of people that have tried ESO think its great?
Dude,
Yes, the majority is satisfied.
Positive: 177
Neutral: 23
Negative: 53
Source:
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-elder-scrolls-online-tamriel-unlimited
It's interesting you bring up metacritic. I hadn't really thought to look there really. What's interesting is some of the review dates....also that its for a game that's only existed since June 9th 2015.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-elder-scrolls-online
Positive: 383 out of 864
Mixed: 144 out of 864
Negative: 337
whats interesting still is if you click to write a review another set of numbers pops up:
Positive: 1,050 out of 2338
Mixed: 360 out of 2338
Negative: 928
Sort of interesting it has 5.7 before they got to create a whole different entry for pretty much nothing more than an expansion and suddenly its a 7.8
It's not a big secret that the PC version suffered from a lot of problems at the start. They fixed a lot and now people are happy. It's possible that there's currently a dip, but that will be solved with the next patch.Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
audrieltheelf✭✭✭What I find utterly hilarious is that, through all of this, the only time ZoS has chosen to comment on anything said is when someone was "being mean" to someone else. Really? You have a, currently, 11 page topic dedicated to the idea that people are giving up on you, as a company, and the game you're producing and you're being the mean police? *facepalm*PC/NA/AD
Alaudria - v16 Altmer Sorc
Teleia Opisthia - v16 Imperial Templar (Tank)
Fionna Dark-Heart - v16 Imperial DK (Tank)
Katniss Never Seen - v16 Bosmer NB
Stilettos and a Lava Whip - v16 Dunmer DK
Kerasi Moro - v16 Breton Templar
Kyria Lathraia - v16 Imperial NB7 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭audrieltheelf wrote: »What I find utterly hilarious is that, through all of this, the only time ZoS has chosen to comment on anything said is when someone was "being mean" to someone else. Really? You have a, currently, 11 page topic dedicated to the idea that people are giving up on you, as a company, and the game you're producing and you're being the mean police? *facepalm*
Eh.. again... this is what the weekend forum mods are hired to do, tell people to stop being mean. After all, this frenzy started Friday late afternoon East Coast time. Any devs or management would not be in until Monday morning. And, if I worked for ZoS, I would not have my head in here, at least on my corporate ZoS_name, for fear of commenting on something players took and blew out of proportion.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭audrieltheelf wrote: »What I find utterly hilarious is that, through all of this, the only time ZoS has chosen to comment on anything said is when someone was "being mean" to someone else. Really? You have a, currently, 11 page topic dedicated to the idea that people are giving up on you, as a company, and the game you're producing and you're being the mean police? *facepalm*
That's ridiculous. Do you blame the policeman at the crossroads for not speaking for your government when you disagree with their choices ? Come on... Moderators are doing their jobs.
Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on September 28, 2015 8:27AM0 -
Jitterbug✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭audrieltheelf wrote: »What I find utterly hilarious is that, through all of this, the only time ZoS has chosen to comment on anything said is when someone was "being mean" to someone else. Really? You have a, currently, 11 page topic dedicated to the idea that people are giving up on you, as a company, and the game you're producing and you're being the mean police? *facepalm*
Eh.. again... this is what the weekend forum mods are hired to do, tell people to stop being mean. After all, this frenzy started Friday late afternoon East Coast time. Any devs or management would not be in until Monday morning. And, if I worked for ZoS, I would not have my head in here, at least on my corporate ZoS_name, for fear of commenting on something players took and blew out of proportion.
When have we, as a community, ever blown anything out of prop... oh, wait, nevermind...1 -
medieval_TOG✭✭✭I still like playing Loading Screens Online.
Gives me a chance to check out the forums (and go to the toilet, and make a cup of tea, chat to the missus, pat the dog, run some errands, etc).
The thing that really disappoints me though about ESO is the Crown Store - the prices charged for cosmetic items are pretty ridiculous when compared to other games, and are way over the top.Edited by medieval_TOG on September 28, 2015 8:51AMOh so you play on a console? Well this is a console game after-all I suppose.1 -
Cherryblossom✭✭✭✭✭
✭
798 people gave it on average a 7.8
That would not happen if the game was trash.
Sure, you have the right to state an opinion. But if you come in my restaurant, shouting that my food is *PEEP* and that I'm *PEEP* then I guide you to the exit. Even if me or my food are really *PEEP*.
We all have issues with the game. And everyone thinks 'his' issues are the most important ones. It isn't.
Be patient, if your issue is a real issue, sooner or later they'll fix it.
Hi PinpZino
I've mentioned this before on the forum regarding Metacritic score, do a little research and you will see the High scores are made up. How can I say they are made up you ask.... Why is it the Majority of the 10's, the reviewer has only reviewed ESO, but have actually reviewed all platforms, are we to actually believe these individuals play on PS4, XBOX and PC and in some cases the normal version and Imperial version on PC. (well known fact there were groups paid to give games good reviews on sites like this) http://consumerist.com/2012/04/18/science-figures-out-how-to-identify-groups-of-fake-online-reviewers/
The only reviews that appear to be from real people are low scores sadly, there are some high scores by people like me that do like the game, but I'm not blinded by the obvious paid for reviews on the site.
I lost faith in ZOS shortly after launch due to the bugs and poor customer service offered by ZOS, but despite this I still play the game as I do believe it offers something different, it's also beautiful to look at.
ZOS has a lot to do too generate some love for this game, as it's quite clear to most who have played since launch that the majority of people they used to play with, are no longer with us. I'm still a member in a guild of 500 where only 3 of us still play, so thats 497 people who just stopped playing, a couple came back on when it became F2P but they didn't stay long when they realised Lag and bugs were still in the game.
ESO is endanger of becoming a niche game, where only die hards play. To be honest I'm not sure what ZOS needs to do, fixing bugs would be a good thing, but there are some game mechanics that need some serious consideration if they wish to keep the normal crowd of MMO players. (some examples are given in this thread)6 -
FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭Ummm I'm pretty sure if you don't implement anything for the players then you won't have players, because then who are you marketing to?0
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭medieval_TOG wrote: »I still like playing Loading Screens Online.
Gives me a chance to check out the forums (and go to the toilet, and make a cup of tea, chat to the missus, pat the dog, run some errands, etc).
The thing that really disappoints me though about ESO is the Crown Store - the prices charged for cosmetic items are pretty ridiculous when compared to other games, and are way over the top.
I just used a skill point for my passive waiting skill. My waiting times are now doubled. I rule.
About the Crown store: there's no way I would spend any money for a cosmetic item.
But I'm not the people. It seems a lot people like it. So who are we to take it away?
Somebody compared earlier the prices in the Crown Store with other games and he figured out it was rather cheap. I'll see if I can find the thread.Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
iTzStevey✭✭✭I've given up on ZoS but I'm trying not to give up on eso but its really hard, so we go through this ridiculous and mostly boring grind....for what? For them to nerf the same thing we grinded for in 6 months so we favor the new sets more? Whats the point in going from being an utter noob to putting in all the hard work so your character is good just for them to completely rip it apart so you grind for more gear and cp ect? And PvP? Where did that go? may aswell just rename Cyrodiil Zerg Central and put a giant d*ck above anyones head that isnt in a group of 8+ but what else is there to do if not pvp (zerg)? Dungeons? Id rather not spend 3 hours if not more looking for a group thanks. All in all it seems they're giving me more reasons to leave than stay, shame aswell because the game was really really fun fun at first, novelty wears off though.2
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NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭
Dun dun dun. MY 1000TH POST!!!!!!!!!!!
is to say, yah, I give up.
(deleted three page rant, you guys know what's wrong)
It had so much potential, but was released too, way way too unpolished,and now we will pay dearly for that polish, which should have been there in the first damned place. Five years from now they may have a better game,but it's all cash grab now/already.
6 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭Cherryblossom wrote: »
798 people gave it on average a 7.8
That would not happen if the game was trash.
Sure, you have the right to state an opinion. But if you come in my restaurant, shouting that my food is *PEEP* and that I'm *PEEP* then I guide you to the exit. Even if me or my food are really *PEEP*.
We all have issues with the game. And everyone thinks 'his' issues are the most important ones. It isn't.
Be patient, if your issue is a real issue, sooner or later they'll fix it.
Hi PinpZino
I've mentioned this before on the forum regarding Metacritic score, do a little research and you will see the High scores are made up. How can I say they are made up you ask.... Why is it the Majority of the 10's, the reviewer has only reviewed ESO, but have actually reviewed all platforms, are we to actually believe these individuals play on PS4, XBOX and PC and in some cases the normal version and Imperial version on PC. (well known fact there were groups paid to give games good reviews on sites like this) http://consumerist.com/2012/04/18/science-figures-out-how-to-identify-groups-of-fake-online-reviewers/
The only reviews that appear to be from real people are low scores sadly, there are some high scores by people like me that do like the game, but I'm not blinded by the obvious paid for reviews on the site.
I lost faith in ZOS shortly after launch due to the bugs and poor customer service offered by ZOS, but despite this I still play the game as I do believe it offers something different, it's also beautiful to look at.
ZOS has a lot to do too generate some love for this game, as it's quite clear to most who have played since launch that the majority of people they used to play with, are no longer with us. I'm still a member in a guild of 500 where only 3 of us still play, so thats 497 people who just stopped playing, a couple came back on when it became F2P but they didn't stay long when they realised Lag and bugs were still in the game.
ESO is endanger of becoming a niche game, where only die hards play. To be honest I'm not sure what ZOS needs to do, fixing bugs would be a good thing, but there are some game mechanics that need some serious consideration if they wish to keep the normal crowd of MMO players. (some examples are given in this thread)
It's not that some companies faked user reviews, that ZOS did it too.
All we can say: We don't know.
The experience you have with your guild is not unusual. It was the same with Ultima Online at the start, which was in its time a very good game.
Playing an MMORPG costs a lot of time, sure if you want to play it well. The learning curve is steep and not that easy. And this is working for most, if not all, MMORPG's.
So it's pretty normal that many starters quit early.
Some people don't play often as well, but still like and actual play the game.
The game is pretty young, the user base is not mature yet. We need more experienced players. That will take some time. And as time progress the game itself will be better and contain less bugs.
I think we all should relax a bit and have some faith in the dev team. In a couple of days or weeks the new patch will arrive. I’m pretty sure it will change the atmosphere a lot. More positive. Unless they would create more bugs. lol
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
FireCowCommando✭✭✭✭✭The game is pretty young, the user base is not mature yet. We need more experienced players. That will take some time. And as time progress the game itself will be better and contain less bugs.
I think we all should relax a bit and have some faith in the dev team. In a couple of days or weeks the new patch will arrive. I’m pretty sure it will change the atmosphere a lot. More positive. Unless they would create more bugs. lol
For a PC player the amount of hours ive spent in PvP is casual compared to most. im only rank 37, which is 26 million AP. Day 10 of release i was bored, day 14 ive decided not to log in except for writs and trait research.
After 17 months with this game as someone who only ever enjoyed the PvP aspect, it's my opinion that this update does not have enough positives to outweigh the negative design decisions. Beyond that, i also don't believe there is enough meaty content in this update for them to tweak to make it work.
Unless they are cutting the damage reduction by 15% in two weeks, i just dont see it happening.3 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
That's true. But it's a good story and the content is so true.
Learn from the master:
First Rule of Usability? Don't Listen to Users
You keep using that but it doesn't apply.
And why would it not apply?
Did the players study game development? What do they know about game UX?
No, they didn't and like Manuel from Barcelona they "know nothing" about game UX.
Why would you ask a non-qualified one some advice?
Imagine doctors, engineers, airplane pilots or architects would work like that way...
.
In my example from the zombie game I'm playing, it works very well.
The big difference between what your saying and what I am saying is that many very very good programmers also play games, hence can often offer help when another programmer comes up against a brick wall.
ignoring someone elses expertise just because they aren't on your payroll or you think your superior to them is simply foolish.
The more people I can learn off the better.
Loads of top games programmers have never ever studied game development, if anything studying such a subject would likely constrain ideas, make them churn out more of the same old tired ideas.
The zombie game, players come up with ideas, many of them the devs discard as it doesn't fit in with their vision, many others they hadn't though of and think its great.
Just like the slaughterfish in ESO was a player suggestion.
1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disregarding the whole public opinion discussion (worthless, nothing of that helps me make up my mind), I yesterday came to the conclusion that yes, I am giving up on ZOS.
I can live with non-balance. I can live with a crown store. I can live with loading screens, falling through the world and other bugs.
I can't be bothered with their stance on exploit-fixing. I can't live with their idea of "How to get your items". I am utterly disappointed.Edited by Leandor on September 29, 2015 10:41AM2 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I loved ESO. But I hate the IC as a grinding and ganking place.
The core of the problem may be: ZOS wants to release 4x DLC per year.
With such a tense timeframe, there may be not enough time for serious new gameplay.
There only may be time for "fast food DLC": After the asset team created the IC,
instead of filling the city with new gameplay, they probably only had time
to fill the city with Daedra scripts and micro grinding to strech the content.
I was decided to buy each ESO DLC.
But if the IC stays the zerg fast food it currently is, I do not need more of this.
The IC assets are great. But these need to be filled with some serious PVP gameplay, such as:
- Capture the Flag: Steal the IC banner and bring it to your base to win TV stones.
- Domination: Hold a given IC district for a certain time to win TV stones.
- Last Man Standing: Be the last man standing in a 2 team arena (2x4 players) to win TV stones.
- Scroll Hunting: Find lost scrolls in the IC and bring them to Cyrodiil for more bonuses.
- Emperor Domination: Conquer all IC districts to crown the real emperor.
Edited by BalticBlues on September 28, 2015 10:44AM7 -
PinoZino✭✭✭✭FireCowCommando wrote: »
For a PC player the amount of hours ive spent in PvP is casual compared to most. im only rank 37, which is 26 million AP. Day 10 of release i was bored, day 14 ive decided not to log in except for writs and trait research.
After 17 months with this game as someone who only ever enjoyed the PvP aspect, it's my opinion that this update does not have enough positives to outweigh the negative design decisions. Beyond that, i also don't believe there is enough meaty content in this update for them to tweak to make it work.
Unless they are cutting the damage reduction by 15% in two weeks, i just dont see it happening.
I can live with most bugs. Some are very nasty, but so is life. I know they will solve the 'real' bugs rather fast. And a 'real' bug is something experienced by all or at least a significant amount of players. A fake bug is often experienced by one person or a small group (however, this is not always true).
What's bothering me the most is the lack of creativity by the players themselves.
In the older MMO's, the games were less polished and not so rich in functionality, but the players were.
I'll give a few examples.
In a famous MMORPG an huge island was occupied by a big group of Dutch players. And they installed their own silly but fun law system on that island. You had to wear orange clothes and you had to speak Dutch. Else they would have killed you.
In that same game you saw often big meeting parties with a specific dress code at some location or horse races between cities.
I'm missing a bit that silly kind of stuff. It's not the fault of the dev team it isn't there, it's ours.
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
FuzzyDuck79✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »The IC assets are great. But they would need to be filled with some serious gameplay, such as:
- Capture the Flag: Steal the IC banner and bring it to your base to win TV stones.
- Domination: Hold a given IC district for a certain time to win TV stones.
- Last Man Standing: Be the last man standing in a 2 team arena (2x4 players) to win TV stones.
- Scroll Hunting: Find lost scrolls in the IC and bring them to Cyrodiil for more bonuses.
- Emperor Domination: Conquer all IC districts to crown the real emperor.
Many good suggestions that would actually make IC fun! Imagine that... actually having fun. Plus a real achievement, rather than a means to make some gear. Something like that would hold interest beyond the 10 mins of grinding I did before I gave up on it.
Plus the problem with PvP in IC is the scale of it. In cyrodiil you had to take the keeps/castles/forts, which took a bit of time and a few people. You could look on the map and you had time to get in the fight - there were frontlines. Now the scale is much smaller, the length of time to get there is increased and the fight is over by the time you get there.
Edited by FuzzyDuck79 on September 28, 2015 10:54AM2
This discussion has been closed.