Are people starting to give up on ZOS?

BippNasty

I personally hate saying this because I really do thank Zos for bringing us this game but in all honesty, they really do suck. Like how are chat boxes still not on t

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Never had faith to begin with but gave them a chance as they're new to me . I was highly critical of bungies way of handling things and initial impressions were zos would be more of the same ( no text chat , ignoring community pleas for it. Not even a /lurk ). No dev participation on the forums just go betweens. Devs ignoring their official forums but posting on reddit etc . They can improve with time if people give them it and while pvping with the guild remains fun I'll stick around . Main complaints are text chat , group finder and community relations

THIS! THIS! AND MORE THIS!

PhxOldGamer68

Imperial City should've been a separate campaign. Ever since the launch, there's a wait to get into my home and guest campaigns almost all day. And when I get in, I find maybe less than 50 people playing PvP. Where's the rest? Oh yeah, in Imperial City.

I was in group of 24 yesterday. The majority left for IC, while a handful continued above ground. I don't mind leaving groups and joining other groups. I found it frustrating, but it is what it is...I'm sure the crowds will die down when everyone gets bored of IC soon.

OGLezard

ZOS_Racheal wrote: »

Greetings everyone,

We understand that people are going to disagree from time to time, but please remember to keep your comments respectful at all times on our forums, even when you disagree with others. Insults or other disruptive behavior do not help further discussion. We encourage sharing opinions, but we ask that they are constructively stated when doing so. Thank you!

ROFLMFAO! I thought MAYBE just MAYBE we were gonna get some insightful stuff from ZoS........sadly we didnt. I wish when someone important came in they flagged the left side of the title on the main thread page with the Z like they do currently and when it is someone of zero importance (importance being based upon the above quoted copy paste mind numbing BS) it is just a caution sign with an exclamation mark.

Much like when I try to play the game exploit free (me not exploiting to gain better gear, gold, etc etc) I left this thread very disappointed because I thought ZoS had chimed in with words of inspiration to make me want to keep playing

MrGrimey

So many better thing that they could have done to make this dlc good. Ic is pretty much dead now, nothing but farmers and grinders left.

Would have been nice if it had a separate queue and less of a grindy feel to it.. It also needed a battleground where players queue up and fight for either a tv stone reward or an objective. Currently, pvp feels pointless in ic and it was supposed to be a pvp dlc.

Chances are ZOS won't learn from their mistakes and continue running this game into the ground.

XoXJulietteXoX

b92303008rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Complaints and rants are dying down compared to one or two weeks ago. And less than 800 people watched ESO Live yesterday while the number were easily over 1000 in the past few months. Is ESO way past the turning point that it can never recover again?

The load takes roughly 5 minutes to 10! The bank never works. None of the traders show prices. Nirncrux NEVER drop anymore, I have had 10 surveys in the past 2 weeks and got 0 nirncrux. I never get Ambrosia pages, they prefer to sell us costumes instead of fixing the lag in the game...

tordr86b16_ESO

If the imperial city wasn't an instance but a part of cyrodiil then maybe, just maybe, it would have played better.

Hiero_Glyph

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Yesterday my group of 15-16 were farming blues and reds at their sewer entrances for a good 30-45 mins each
(since AP diminishes).
You wanna know why they were only able to wipe us?

Re-arming trap.

It wasn't that they had twice of three times our numbers.
Literally 20 re-arming traps doing 30k-50k. Both alliances.



And no fix yet for another week

Historically, fixes for game breaking PvP exploits take 2-3 months.

What's hilarious (and sad) is that ZOS locked the thread to dissuade the use of exploits that they had previously ignored for months. To my knowledge, none of the issues mentioned are still current and Rearming Trap does not require anything other than using the skill (not an exploit, just bad programming). It is certainly broken but that is the fault of ZOS, not the players. It is no different than players using Nirnhoned for months before it was fixed but you didn't see ZOS locking threads over it since it wasn't an exploit, just errant programming.

EDIT: For reference an exploit involves the misuse of a thing for something other than its original intention. This could be for grinding, damage immunity, stacking damage, etc. Using a thing for its intended purpose can never be called an exploit (unless its sole purpose is to create an exploit).

Diamond_10

IC is good, i really enjoy it.
PvP as a whole is not. Its a blob of spinning noobs, and they wont ever change how pvp works in this game, ever. At launch it was impulse, now its spin2win

NobleNerd

PinoZino wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Are you going to respond to the list of issues I posted, or are you just here to make fun of people and ask for their stuff?

You want to have a real discussion? Here is your chance.

No. I don't want to address your issues. Are we clear now?

Can I have your stuff too?

If you have nothing constructive to add, please stop responding to my posts.

I am constructive. I showed you that the majority is more than satisfied and I explained you that the subscription market in general is shrinking. It's debunking your false statements.

I also explained that we all have issues with the game and we all think that our 'own' issues are the most important ones to solve, while they aren't.

I also explained that sooner or later they will solve your issues too. But only if it are issues.

Constructive doesn't mean that you shout 'leg' and I have to raise my foreleg. I'm not your dog. Thank you.

If the majority playing this game number the numbers you are trying to pass off as "majority" then ZOS is doomed and should just close the game now. Your numbers are nothing and do not help establish a firm foundation for your arguments.

Callous2208

NobleNerd wrote: »

If the majority playing this game number the numbers you are trying to pass off as "majority" then ZOS is doomed and should just close the game now.

Wait..what?

pmn100b16_ESO

I've stopped playing recently, reason being endless rng grinds and can't fix/won't fix loading screens.

Orsinium rebuild? Wouldn't be surprised if its brick by brick, with a dungeon run giving you up to 5 pebbles, and 100 pebbles crafts a brick. OCDs paradise but not my cup of tea.

Sadly, this game ended with B2P.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »

I've stopped playing recently, reason being endless rng grinds and can't fix/won't fix loading screens.

Orsinium rebuild? Wouldn't be surprised if its brick by brick, with a dungeon run giving you up to 5 pebbles, and 100 pebbles crafts a brick. OCDs paradise but not my cup of tea.

Sadly, this game ended with B2P.

There will be plenty of flyspeck to collect in Orsinium. Grinds are easier than actual content.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Yesterday my group of 15-16 were farming blues and reds at their sewer entrances for a good 30-45 mins each
(since AP diminishes).
You wanna know why they were only able to wipe us?

Re-arming trap.

It wasn't that they had twice of three times our numbers.
Literally 20 re-arming traps doing 30k-50k. Both alliances.



And no fix yet for another week

Historically, fixes for game breaking PvP exploits take 2-3 months.

What's hilarious (and sad) is that ZOS locked the thread to dissuade the use of exploits that they had previously ignored for months. To my knowledge, none of the issues mentioned are still current and Rearming Trap does not require anything other than using the skill (not an exploit, just bad programming). It is certainly broken but that is the fault of ZOS, not the players. It is no different than players using Nirnhoned for months before it was fixed but you didn't see ZOS locking threads over it since it wasn't an exploit, just errant programming.

EDIT: For reference an exploit involves the misuse of a thing for something other than its original intention. This could be for grinding, damage immunity, stacking damage, etc. Using a thing for its intended purpose can never be called an exploit (unless its sole purpose is to create an exploit).

Arbitrarily censoring threads is standard practice for them. Even if, as you said, this wasn't a literal exploit in that it required no unintended manipulation of the game to operate. It is just a skill that was programmed poorly. Same thing with nirnhoned and sharpened axes.

They claim the purpose of censoring the threads is to keep others from learning about the exploit but anyone can "learn" by stepping into the IC and getting insta-gibbed. The kajiit has long been out of the bag.

The real purpose of the censorship is PR and damage control. But again, (surprise surprise), it is done poorly and inconsistently. It would be more effective for them if it was actually consistent but as you can see from all of the historical examples I posted about other PvP "exploits," the threads are handled arbitrarily. Some are nuked, others are moved off the general forum to hide them, and others are just let be. Depends on the day, depends on the individual mod, depends on the position of the stars.

This is part of the reason people are giving up on ZOS: Inconsistency. Metric tons of inconsistency. I wish I could dull my senses (and critical thinking skills) and believe that ZOS has this amazing, singular, and consistent vision for this game and that everything is going according to plan (like the dogmatic apologists that are working double time on this thread want us to believe). But my common sense tells me otherwise.

Van_0S

BippNasty wrote: »

I personally hate saying this because I really do thank Zos for bringing us this game but in all honesty, they really do suck. Like how are chat boxes still not on t

Junglejim82 wrote: »

Never had faith to begin with but gave them a chance as they're new to me . I was highly critical of bungies way of handling things and initial impressions were zos would be more of the same ( no text chat , ignoring community pleas for it. Not even a /lurk ). No dev participation on the forums just go betweens. Devs ignoring their official forums but posting on reddit etc . They can improve with time if people give them it and while pvping with the guild remains fun I'll stick around . Main complaints are text chat , group finder and community relations

THIS! THIS! AND MORE THIS!

Chat boxes huh!. What about Controller support?

Glorious_One

I gave up on them fairly fast. I bought the console.version... saw that it did not have text chat, scrolling damage text.... and that it had a horrible grouping tool... I played for roughly a month then quit.

If I wanted to play a single player rpg I would play The Witcher.

Very disappointed with this game. Very

Soulshine

Ojustaboo wrote: »

snip

A few months ago one of the guild purchased a zombie survival multiplayer game that's in alpha (wont advertise it here). So far another 8 of our guild has purchased it including myself.

Hehe. I tried this with some friends on Steam recently. It is a hell of a lot of fun, lol. Not sure if the live will be as good but hey, it is pretty amazing so far... and I don't even like zombie games usually

tordr86b16_ESO

Holy f****** loading screens.

Korah_Eaglecry

NeoBeastX wrote: »

Wizzo91 wrote: »

NeoBeastX wrote: »

If you feel like you should give up then give up. This game may not be suited for you.

@NeoBeastX

I'm laughing so hard right now. Your signature. Are you really that proud you've dumped that many $$$ into virtual items, to list them all and show them off?

I'll never be able to take you seriously. Ridiculous.

I only spent about 700 USD in this game. If you think that that is a lot of money or foolish than I can't take you serious for the fact that you don't wish to support games.

Theres a difference between supporting a game and just giving your money away. That money could of went to much nobler causes if you felt like supporting something. As if ZOS is in such dire straights that your 700 dollars was going to save the day.

Makkir

GreySix wrote: »

So we played together (sort of - couldn't co-op the main story or two main side quests), and then we beat Molag Bal.

Everything after that seemed anticlimactic. I mean, you just neutralized the major threat, but then you learn that you're only a third into the game, and now Sir Pot-on-Head offers you a chance to start all over again as a nobody, fighting for your enemies?

Wife said screw it, and she hasn't played since. I play on and off, maybe an hour or so every couple of weeks.

@GreySix I am sorry you both had that experience. I hate coming on these forums every day and seeing the goodbye threads, or the posts that are just blatantly upset with this game. I come from a long history of MMOs dating back to EverQuest 1 and although now I am CONVINCED those glorious days of EverQuest 1 are gone and replaced with this new era of instant gratification MMO'ers, ESO has found a place in my heart that is close enough to those days of EQ.

I wish there was something I could do or offer for her to come back, along with the others here who had quit....because it is only a downward spiral and as more players leave, that's less money going to support the game I still love.

Makkir

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Add other ways for players to enjoy the game instead of having everything being combat oriented!!!, add immersion and roleplay into the game and that can make its own content, add things like Animal hunting, perhaps Horse or Guar Racing, make being a Vampire or a Werewolf actually worth something, instead of it being a skillline, Im talking lunar transformation and a need to sate your bloodlust by killing innocents in werewolf form once a week or you lose something also you shouldn't rack up a bounty if your in beast form, Vampires should have debuffs in sunlight cause vampires who don't suffer in daylight are NOT vampires, hell the ones in ESO don't even have fangs, and they should actually get more powerful at night and NPCs should react accordingly.

@TX12001rwb17_ESO Hey Buddy, I just wanted to invite you to create your own content where you see fit. There was a small PvP event in the Arena district last night, for example, in which everyone honored the rules. Yes always a party pooper here and there, but there is a lot of room in the game for player sponsored events. The forums are a great way to advertise.

Halloween is right around the corner, why don't you organize a costume party or something?

Makkir

Jim_Berry wrote: »

But you know, I think if this game was cross-platform, it will shine. Many MMOs fail because they lack this feature.

I agree with this x100.

nimander99

I'm starting to give up on forums...

JUST KIDDING! I'll never leave you, forums

RoamingRiverElk

So let's see what a typical evening for me in ESO might be like...

I log on, check who's online. Look at the guild roster of my small scale PvP guild. Surprisingly, more people are still online, and I'm happy about that because there's a lot of doom and gloom in the air about how long we will play this game anymore, a lot of people are talking about quitting and wishing there was at least some other good MMO out there, something for us to do together online. Then there's the ones who have quit, now permanently offline or just peeking in now and then, only to disappear once more. Like that one prominent member who didn't like the changes to DKs, the CP system and the zerging that has become the norm in PvP.

So what would I like to do? I'm a PvPer in my heart, Loved PvP until 1.6 arrived. After that, fun in PvP has been harder and harder to find. Dailies don't really interest me, I've done the PvE group dungeons so many times already in order to level Undaunted and to get the monster helms so my character would be viable in PvP.

Our group leader is not online yet so I decide to decraft some materials that I farmed the previous night by going in circles in the DC sewers, mostly farming the NPCs, now and then being attacked by some enemies - but wishing that we wouldn't be so that we could actually farm efficiently without interruptions. Yes, PvPr wishing there wouldn't be PvP. I've never been extremely rich as a small scale PvPr, and thus I don't have tons of bag space on my characters and in my bank, but I have purchased many upgrades. It takes 30 minutes to decraft my materials - which aren't that many in the end, considering how many mats it takes to craft a v16 item.

We talk in guild chat about what everyone is doing - the guild is pretty spread out these days, for different reasons, so while we're friends with each other, we don't actually play together much. Many couldn't adapt to the changes in the game in PvP when 1.6 hit - the changes to classes and how it takes more and more skill to play in a small group. Magicka DKs pale in comparison to sorcerers now in small group PvP where we fight outnumbered. In a guild where almost everyone has a v12+ DK, I'm the only one who actually plays it, about half the time, because we do need that healing debuff from DK standard these days.

But man is it difficult to play a magicka DK now - I'm so much squishier and there's No Way I could possibly play a magicka DK now without vampirism so I can mistform to keep up with others, to have some damage mitigation (since my shields and mitigation range from nearly non-existent (igneous shield) to mediocreish (harness magicka with 30k max magicka is not that much, and only applies to spells anyway), and because the blocking stamina regen nerf made blocking pretty much impossible, unless you really want to spec everything into that - but where's the fun then when you can't kill even NPCs with that poor damage output), use Clouding Swarm for a brief respite and get some regen for my high cost DK skills. The thing is, magicka DKs really needed that stamina regen in order to be truly viable. But hey, this is build diversity, courtesy of ZOS! Just level up some other class now (suggest NB or sorc) or play stamina DK, because magicka DK is not a good option anymore.

Group leader / my PvP partner still not on, probably because he's rather reading the forums or doing something else, because PvP just isn't as much fun anymore, or he's waiting for the zergiest time to pass so we could actually find some kinds of reasonable fights where we won't be totally overrun due to the changes in game mechanics which favor the zergs even when they are very much less skilled than their opponents - ultimate gain change, aoe caps, strong aoe healing when in a big group, effectiveness of barrier and purge for big groups, nerfed defensive skills (blocking, roll dodging)... There used to be a time when numbers didn't matter nearly as much, as long as you had skill. These days? Well... all it takes is for one shield breaker to spam light bow attacks from somewhere to make enough of a difference against magicka builds. Doesn't feel very fair, does it, considering how easy it is for them to do that. And when you actually catch a player using shield breaker, it is pretty likely that they can't do much and die fast. Not because the other bonuses of the set would be bad, it's just that they don't know how to play. Like that one guy who continued to attack my DK wings with bow attacks...

Look at my casual 500 member PvE / PvP guild chat, see that they're forming a group to go to Cyrodiil and to the Imperial City. They end up forming a group consisting of 20+ players. On TS, the leader tells people to stick together (this is what happened the one time I joined the group, not realizing how big the group would end up being. In the end, I left when I realized the group wasn't getting split up any time soon). Just stick to crown, you will not die. Cuz dying in PvP is that scary and you wouldn't want to lose the Tel Var stones, or get separated from the group. Hey, there's two enemy faction players there, better kill their characters fast so that there's absolutely no way they could kill any of the 20+ group.

We reminisce in guild chat about the times past, when there were different kinds of campaigns, when we cared about the campaigns, where numbers weren't all that mattered and we could play the characters we wanted to play... We really want to keep playing this game, but it's harder and harder to find something fun to do in the game. And we know we aren't the only ones.

I browse the guild stores, trying to see how the prices are changing for different armor pieces and materials, and how much the new willpower/endurance/agility costs today. I nearly feel like I've become more of a trader/crafter than a PvPr, despite only wanting to be the latter. I lament not being able to use particular interesting sets anymore because they haven't been upgraded to v16. A v12 set would have to be pretty ... good for me to use it. No. All the v12 and v14 sets need to be updated so that they also drop in v16.

My PvP partner finally logs on. He's very good at what he does, so if there's ever a chance at small scale PvP, it is when he's on. I try not to pester him about forming a PvP group right away. Ok who cares, I'm going to do it anyway. He needs to do some crafting / decrafting / guild store browsing first.

Half an hour later we form a small group of three. I play on my magicka DK that I was playing a lot until 1.6. The build is completely different now, extremely squishy, but does relatively good damage. It all goes relatively nicely for the first thirty minutes, but then we only start encountering huge groups, which we cannot get out of resources nor burst them down fast enough. We decide to look for some PvP in outdoors Cyrodiil. I need to switch some of my gear onto my alt, because my DK just isn't viable out there in a small group. I relog, get the gear, and thanks to careful planning of home and guest campaigns, we manage to join a campaign where there seems to be some PvP action in Cyrodiil. We play for a while, have some fights that are alright, but in the end, it just isn't the same. Something is missing. It's not what it used to be.

But maybe tomorrow is different. Maybe tomorrow we will for some reason, find some great fights. They do still exist. But they are hard to find. The stars have to align. The game is still great when it's great. But that's rare. And it's not nearly as awesome as it used to be.

When we were still playing on the Hopesfire campaign, all we had to do was jump right in when we logged on, and have fun. We found fights, we played all over the map (using blood porting, yes), we saw different terrain, we defended many keeps, we won outnumbered fights because knowing more about the game and the way the different classes worked mattered. Those were some awesome times.

The memories of what the game used to be like before 1.6 still keep us playing. Because we know how awesome this game could be. But every day, that resolve, and that faith, becomes a little smaller. Playing less and less, and quitting the game are options that are becoming more and more likely, day by day.

We have formed great friendships here over time, and we would love to keep this game as the environment where we interact and have fun. Who knows whether ZOS will make the right decisions to let us do so.

nimander99

Wonder what pvp would be like if we had all aoe skills/spells disabled... cheese for thought.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Didn't even bother to read this thread, but since I've been sitting at a loading screen for the past 10 minutes (several reboots, blah, blah) I've decided to re-install Star Wars: The Old Republic.

I mean, it'll probably finish installing by the time I get logged in to Rivenspire anyway.

And who knows? Maybe I'll be able to play SOMETHING before I have to go to sleep.

So, in answer to the OP, yes.

tordr86b16_ESO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWHboTytk_Q

PinoZino

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

No, the point is that informed opinions can come from anywhere. If they have proper support ignoring them is the only mistake. This has been historically proven.

You don't get it, don't you?

Opinions are worth nothing. And sure if they come from laypeople who don't have a clue about what they are talking.

Opinions are personal. My favourite colour is yellow. You can't discuss that, you can't fight it. It's my opinion, you can't push me to change it and there's no need for too.

UX doesn't work that way. UX is measurable. You can actual measure if people use or learn an UI faster or make less mistakes. Even the satisfaction (important with games) can be measured.

And if you can measure it, opinions are worth nothing. You can have the opinion that something is better, I can measure what's the best. Now, what's more solid? Your opinion - which is in most cases wrong due the lack of knowledge about the field - or a measurable fact?

Countless studies are carried out about this issue. Not one is in favour of 'letting users decide what's best'.

Does it mean the user or player is unimportant? Certainly not. Till a certain degree they are nice for detecting problems. But the best is watching them using the software. But what you don’t do is listen too much to their solutions. Behaviour is rather universal among people, opinions aren't.

If someone say to me "mmm, I think this button should be bigger", then I'll answer "Maybe" and write down "Current button could be a problem". It's possible that I have to provide a bigger button, but it's also possible that changing its colour or the location is maybe better. It's even possible that I have to use no button at all or have to replace it with another gizmo. At that moment I have no clue either. I have to analyze and measure what's best. It depends about the context of use, the user profiles and the goal of that UI screen.

And measuring is what users/players never do. They don't measure what's best, they even don't know how to do it.

Letting users decide what's best, is a recipe for a disaster. Letting users their behaviour decide what's best is gold.

Dru1076

PinoZino wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

No, the point is that informed opinions can come from anywhere. If they have proper support ignoring them is the only mistake. This has been historically proven.

You don't get it, don't you?

Opinions are worth nothing. And sure if they come from laypeople who don't have a clue about what they are talking.

Opinions are personal. My favourite colour is yellow. You can't discuss that, you can't fight it. It's my opinion, you can't push me to change it and there's no need for too.

UX doesn't work that way. UX is measurable. You can actual measure if people use or learn an UI faster or make less mistakes. Even the satisfaction (important with games) can be measured.

And if you can measure it, opinions are worth nothing. You can have the opinion that something is better, I can measure what's the best. Now, what's more solid? Your opinion - which is in most cases wrong due the lack of knowledge about the field - or a measurable fact?

Countless studies are carried out about this issue. Not one is in favour of 'letting users decide what's best'.

Does it mean the user or player is unimportant? Certainly not. Till a certain degree they are nice for detecting problems. But the best is watching them using the software. But what you don’t do is listen too much to their solutions. Behaviour is rather universal among people, opinions aren't.

If someone say to me "mmm, I think this button should be bigger", then I'll answer "Maybe" and write down "Current button could be a problem". It's possible that I have to provide a bigger button, but it's also possible that changing its colour or the location is maybe better. It's even possible that I have to use no button at all or have to replace it with another gizmo. At that moment I have no clue either. I have to analyze and measure what's best. It depends about the context of use, the user profiles and the goal of that UI screen.

And measuring is what users/players never do. They don't measure what's best, they even don't know how to do it.

Letting users decide what's best, is a recipe for a disaster. Letting users their behaviour decide what's best is gold.

Very interesting. But just your opinion, and therefore it means nothing.

Fact is, opinions ARE important. But not everyone will have the same opinion, of course.

NadiusMaximus

Laypeople have been reporting the same bugs, exploits,lag, and broken abilities since beta, and nothing much has been done.
You just don't get why people are giving up even after the release of the fix all, balance all, end all mega patch they had been promising since last spring that finally came in form of a dlc and has failed miserably with everyone I know and many others.
But that's just my opinion.

PinoZino

Dru1076 wrote: »

Very interesting. But just your opinion, and therefore it means nothing.

Fact is, opinions ARE important. But not everyone will have the same opinion, of course.

No, it's not an opinion. Since they studied and analyzed this rather broad and deep.
We know for sure that opinions are crap.

At Apple they didn't went to the customers: "Can we have your opinion about building a phone?" nor didn't they ask "Here is a prototype of a new phone device, tell me your opinion about it".

No, what they did was building low and high-fidelity prototypes, gave them to users and ask them to carry out tasks like 'phone someone' or 'make a picture'.

They just watched what the users did, where they failed, where they had difficulties in executing the task.

Later they analyzed everything, went again to the drawing board and returned to the test users until all were satisfied.

Building an UI or a game idea is a profession. The learning curve is hard and steep. And this academic knowledge is just a start, you also needs tons of experience.

Tell me, why would the learning curve be hard and steep when a utter noob could do the job as well?

Tell me, why do they pay guys like Nielsen, Mayhew, Cooper, Norman and others ridiculous amounts of money per day if an uber noob can do it for free?