Forums are no place for feedback. Recruit unbiased players.

briandivisionb16_ESO · August 2015

Trolling through these forums there's a crapload of differentiating opinion!

First guy (only has nb): Cloak needs fix. Gap closers shouldn't hurt us and detect potions suck. It is our class only defense.
Second guy (played 2 weeks): Cloak is so overpowered. If a nightblade wants to disengage he can. It is bullcrap.
Third guy (doesnt have nb): Nerf cloak
Fourth guy (has nb): Don't nerf cloak
You get the picture.

What we REALLY, REALLY need is a player council of mature players. Less vocal. With unbiased opinion. Working for ZOS.

If past MMO systems are used such as "Search nerf complaints vs buff complaints then apply." then we would all be in a very. VERY. bad place.

ZOS Please PLEASE recruit people who play your game with several characters MANY days (100+) played onto your team.

^^

Darlgon · August 2015

Sigh.. know the real reason they have feedback in the forums? Pick one;

People HATE to /bug and /feedback ingame.
People need to post screenies and more info than they can in game
ZOS wants not just information but VIDs which cannot be posted in game.

They created this special PTS section to collect that data. Its up to ZoS to sort out who are whiners, who are just acting out and who actually tested and knows what they are talking about.

Oh, and trust me. your four stars, 45 Insightfuls, 304 Agrees and 68 Awesomes are probably weighed differently than a player who started two weeks ago.

Cathexis · August 2015

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Mojmir · August 2015

so hire career gamers basically to do the job of what were already doing as customers? they will be biased because they work for the company. PTS,forums, and whatever other avenue you can think of to provide feedback has always been the way to do it. sure theres alot of hands in the cookie jar, but as a company its their job to sift throught the comments to find out whats real and whats just whining and conjecture. why not send out a survey? also i dont see much feedback here from developers in ratio to post by players, thats seems to me to be the community reps job, a liasion bewtween us and them, if theyre not going to respond to feedback. everyone is biased in some form. as for the scenario you presented, ill take a guy whose played one type of build over a bunch of builds anyday, thats specialization. although its hard to really read the emotion people put into text, the best way to judge is the content of what they post. if you have a complaint and you present valid reasons,math,examples,etc. your more apt to get your point across. personally instead of hiring game testers they just need to listen to the community they have with better attunement and BS filtering.

Dracane · August 2015

Everyone has the right to speak and give their opinion. As @Darlgon pointed out, Zenimax is listening to suggestions and they can decide themselves, what sounds reasonable to them and they want to try and what not.

We don't need an Elder Council to decide this

This forum exists for a reason and there is a reason, why they're opening Threads where they're asking for feedback. It's not helpfull to come here and act like you're the solution Zenimax is looking for.
People disagree and have different opinion and it's sad, that things escalate so quickly these days. Someone says a wrong word or starts being sarcastic/ironic/provocative/even insulting and then fire keeps growing and growing, more people join and fuel the fire. It's sad actually

Manoekin · August 2015

They've already decided that's something they will not do. I feel something like that would only bring more animosity than the current system anyway.

newtinmpls · August 2015

As a player - I can't possibly be unbiased.

And I agree that I use forums more than /bug ingame - because it's so amazingly horrible to use, and inevitably generates a form letter that makes clear no real person actually read/evaluated it.

I'd much rather post here, and let my words "possibly" be heard, then to do so ingame and know darn well they are ignored.

Draehl · August 2015

Everyone is biased. The trick is to get people who are intellectually honest with their bias and not trying to be manipulative. Some players are looking to petition to acquire or keep a god-mode build, others are just seeking to refine of mechanics and/or improving weaker skills.

For example, I recognize the strength of Shadow Cloak and how it unnecessarily defines the NB class and is almost a mandatory pick. The opinion that it needs nerfed isn't an unreasonable one, but with the class being so propped up by the skill, there do need to buffs elsewhere if said nerf is to occur. The problem is rarely does anyone want to reasonable consider suggesting a self nerf, and those petitioning for nerfs of other classes typically don't see the whole picture and the ramifications one nerf can have on builds that are already weaker and being held up by an OP skill alone or are using but not (ab)using a certain skill.

Personofsecrets · August 2015

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Trolling through these forums there's a crapload of differentiating opinion!

First guy (only has nb): Cloak needs fix. Gap closers shouldn't hurt us and detect potions suck. It is our class only defense.
Second guy (played 2 weeks): Cloak is so overpowered. If a nightblade wants to disengage he can. It is bullcrap.
Third guy (doesnt have nb): Nerf cloak
Fourth guy (has nb): Don't nerf cloak
You get the picture.

What we REALLY, REALLY need is a player council of mature players. Less vocal. With unbiased opinion. Working for ZOS.

If past MMO systems are used such as "Search nerf complaints vs buff complaints then apply." then we would all be in a very. VERY. bad place.

ZOS Please PLEASE recruit people who play your game with several characters MANY days (100+) played onto your team.

^^

Yea, no thank you. We already have a council of 'mature players' that help the devs change the game. News flash, they are part of the problem.

Mojmir · August 2015

A lot of times it isn't biased but emotional compromise,I'd like to think people get attached to there characters and passionate about what these built up to,then there is pride.we could psychoanalyze this all day.bottom line it's communication breakdown between us and them.

Dru1076 · August 2015

As most of the threads express personal opinions, and that goes for every forum since ancient man, I don't see how its possible to avoid bias.

And I think a council of elite players would be disastrous, seeing the attitudes some of them display in these threads. The last thing I'd want is every decision being steered by hardcore MMO gamers.

Manoekin · August 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Trolling through these forums there's a crapload of differentiating opinion!

First guy (only has nb): Cloak needs fix. Gap closers shouldn't hurt us and detect potions suck. It is our class only defense.
Second guy (played 2 weeks): Cloak is so overpowered. If a nightblade wants to disengage he can. It is bullcrap.
Third guy (doesnt have nb): Nerf cloak
Fourth guy (has nb): Don't nerf cloak
You get the picture.

What we REALLY, REALLY need is a player council of mature players. Less vocal. With unbiased opinion. Working for ZOS.

If past MMO systems are used such as "Search nerf complaints vs buff complaints then apply." then we would all be in a very. VERY. bad place.

ZOS Please PLEASE recruit people who play your game with several characters MANY days (100+) played onto your team.

^^

Yea, no thank you. We already have a council of 'mature players' that help the devs change the game. News flash, they are part of the problem.

DeanTheCat · August 2015

You'll never get a council of unbiased players, because players are humans, and humans will have bias and their own paradigms by their very nature, especially if they have a vested interest on the topic, which all players have. There's usually a few types of players, and they fall under these catagories:

1) Players with obvious vested interest looking to keep their build as top dog.

2) Players with not-so-obvious vested interest looking to keep their build as top dog.

3) Players with vested interest, but seek to improve the game, because they love the game and their vested interest is that the game stays alive, even if it means their build/class gets nerfed.

4) Angry disgruntled players seeking to ensure everyone suffers along with them because their build/class got nerfed.

5) Players who don't understand what is going on mechanics/meta wise, who cannot afford to take a hit to their ego and admit they are wrong.

As you can see, no players will be unbiased in whatever they do, because it's human nature. The only way ZoS is going to get reliable data and feedback is to hire their own testers or test it themselves, but this in itself is full of flaws, because of human pride in being unwilling to admit your own errors. (Which is incidentally why peer review is so important during the testing process). Like it or not, the forums are still one of the best ways we have to give feedback, and we can only hope ZoS manages to sift the wheat from the chaff.