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Why Templar is the Worst Designed Class in ESO. *LONG*

Vatter
Vatter
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I've played a templar ever since beta stress testing was done.

I've played all builds. all different types of game play. When I rolled the character for live I chose a high elf templar because of the focus on magicka.

As everyone knows, the templar has been consistently the worst class to play in ESO. There have been multiple surveys that confirm this by other players.

Our DPS is last on the list. Even though we can put up some decent numbers, it is, still in fact, last place.
For PVE DPS it goes DK, NB, Sorc, Temp.
For PVP DPS it goes NB, Sorc, DK, Temp.
Now a lot of players who have never played a templar before generally come on the forums yelling about RADIANT DESTRUCTION this or BREATH OF LIFE that and BITING JABS this or BLAZING SHIELD that and these are generally the talking points people use to say the class is fine. But lets take a look at these.

1. Breath of Life and Honor the Dead - This is the number one argument people like to use on why they should get their healing buffed or why templars are a "good" class. What they don't know about is something called the "Smart Healing System" that ZOS has embedded in their code. Basically, when I hit BOL or HTD, the heal will go to the lowest health person in the range of the spell. So what that means is you are NEVER guaranteed to heal yourself unlike other classes unless you are out of range of other faction players. Other classes can stack up healing buffs through CP, mundus, Gear and Restoration staff abilities and are 100% guaranteed a self heal (in most cases 75%-90% of their total health bar is returned) in 1 or 2 instant casts.

How many times as a templar healer have you been in Cyrodill near a keep under siege with other players (whether in group or out of group) OR in a group for that matter going against another group, you get hit by siege or other players AOE's and are being drained of health fast, you try to heal your self using your "OP" class heal only to heal the dopes that are not even in your group who like to stand in siege fire or right in the middle of the opposing zerg and not cleansing, healing or moving themselves and you die? for me, its happened hundreds and hundreds of times.

So all of the sudden my "OP" class heal becomes a "maybe if I feel like it" heal. Here's an example you can try on your own. take you and a friend somewhere with an npc. Have your friend have only have 16 or 18k health and you 25-30k. you aggro the npc and let them hit you. as long as your health stays above your friends every heal you do will go to him instead of you even though he is at 100% health. try it.

This is a huge buff for night blades and sorcerers who have escape skills and shield (sorc) because of this they generally stack everything into spell and weapon power and have the lowest health in cyrodiil and because its usually group vs group they get all the heals. letting them survive longer until the templar is dead. then, when they are about to be overcome simply hit vanish or streak and live to fight on. the templar has to rez and horse it back to group. it's insane.

2. DPS - Another big problem with Templars is our dps skills. ALL OF THEM THAT ACTUALLY DO DAMAGE ARE CHANNELED OR DAMAGE OVER TIME. granted there is one or 2 that are instant such as javelin which of course costs an incredible amount of resources and hits like a wad of wet kleenex. lets take a look.

- biting jabs or puncturing sweep - channeled - 1.1 secs for 4 hits. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. they can simply roll dodge through you, side step, back up, block, or CC you SINCE YOU ARE COMPLETELY OPEN TO ANY ATTACK WHILE CASTING THIS. Not to mention the other player gets a full cc immunity for a .5 sec knock back.
*this skill should have the same immunity as wrecking blow and have a lower cast time. .5 secs instead of 1.1

-spear shards - instant - but has an arc travel time so its close to .3 or .4 secs for initial damage to be done. the damage on initial hit is 2 - 2.5k then the other player has to stand in it which the area is only 8 meters for them to take the dot. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. they can simply roll dodge, side step, or back up. Most people will just hold block and move back so your chances of striking someone with this ability over and over is low because of the arc travel time and small DOT radius.

-Sun shield and its morphs - Now completely useless. 15% of my max health as a shield for 6 secs? please just remove this skill completely from game because now it seems like your just laughing at us. not one single person is gonna slot this. skill destroyed.

-vampires bane and reflective light - instant - with travel time - initial blast is to low and damage over time is to low. not to mention the dot can easily be removed or soaked up by a damage shield.

-Solar flare and morph - channeled - 1.1 sec cast time - also has a high arc travel time so it can be close to 2 secs or more before any damage is done. ANY PLAYER WHO IS NOT ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW TO GAME IS NOT GONNA SIT THERE AND TAKE THIS. due to the high arc travel time this skill is avoided 99% of the time. Who's idea was it to give these skills high arc paths? its just awful. The instant cast version of this has damage so low it makes you laugh.

-backlash - instant - but it has a 6 sec build up time which can be removed or mitigated so no damage is even done.

-eclipse - instant - however its cc breakable and cannot be applied to ANYONE who is under cc immunity. ANYONE WHO IS NOT BRAND NEW WILL INSTANTLY CC BREAK THIS FOR THE IMMUNITY - there is no instant damage so it gives people a free immunity going in to a fight for some stamina.

-Radiant Destruction - the skill there has been soooo much crying over. lets break it down. 1. you have to be low health, under 20% for the bonus effect to kick in. even then the damage IS SPREAD OUT OVER 3.4 SECS. mine on pts does 9443. lets do the math 9443 / 3.4 secs = 2777 damage per second which is then cut by 50% for IC which is now 1388 per second. LOL 1,388 DAMAGE PER SECOND! - NOT TO MENTION IS CAN BE INTERRUPTED, CLEANSED, RANGED, BUBBLED AND LEAVES YOU OPEN THE ENTIRE TIME TO BE CC'D OR ATTACKED. with all the heal stacking that will be going on people are going to be insta healing to 75 - 100% health or bubbling or my favorite spamming cloak. So to get someone to 20% health with these mechanics AND awful templar dps is going to be very very hard.

lets look at the healing, the meat of what makes the templar class.

1. rushed ceremony and morphs - a good skill - that is if your lucky enough for it to be applied to you. even then it requires you stop dps in order to cast it. a superior skill is hardened ward where the sorcerer can stack magicka and spell damage into it have a huge bubble and can continue with full cannon dps.

2. healing ritual and morphs - the cast time is way to long and leaves you open to be interrupted, and cc'd

3. restoring aura and morphs - the +20% buff does not apply to magicka only health and stamina. the repentance morph requires dead bodies for it to work. npcs that are dead vanish very fast so you have to be johnny on the spot with this.

4. cleansing ritual and morphs - good cleanse skill heal over time is a little low for a burst damage game.

5. rune focus and morphs - used to be a good skill now you have to stay within the small area to gain the magicka or healing buff. the area itself is small.

On top of all this we have no speed buff, no escape, no aoe cc, bad regen, sub par passives, and little to no instant dps skills.

MY SUGGESTIONS FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE TO ME.

1. there needs to be a hierarchy in your smart healing system. it should go self>group>everyone else. the way it is seriously nerfs the core of our class.

2. puncturing sweep and morphs should have same immunity as wrecking blow and be .5 sec to cast. even dropping the 4th hit with the knock back will do if thats whats needed to make the change. I'm also not sure why this skill works differently with burning light. the proc chance is much lower then 25% which i'm sure is by design. please revert whatever changes you made to it.

3.changes to ultimates need to happen - i'd make the dot damage from NOVA an instant cast explosion that comes from the player and does aoe damage and reduces enemy player damage by 15%. 20k aoe damage (scaled with moderate spell or weapon power) with 15 meter radius and 15% enemy reduced damage seems fair for 240 ultimate. seeing is how dawn breaker, dragon leap, and overcharge already do similar damage. with dawn breaker and overcharge being much more cheaper. the way it is now, as much as you want them to, no one is gonna stand in your nova.

4.make repentance a toggle skill that automatically takes the essences from killed npcs and players.

5.Solar flare being thrown instead of heaved(straight flight time instead of high arc) . put it on par with crystal fragments in terms of speed and cast time and damage. keep the de-buff and no insta cast proc chance.

6.Eclipse being cast on self not on target.

7.make spear shards an aoe root or stun. similar to talons.

8. scale sun shield with spell damage and max magicka and extend the time to 20 secs.

I welcome to any feedback anyone else has concerning this breakdown. but before you comment please ask yourself.
do I have a v14 templar?
have I experienced all game content?
Do i understand that Imperial city is a pvp update?
Edited by Vatter on August 21, 2015 10:08PM
  • AfkNinja
    AfkNinja
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    Thank you, I'm sick of people acting like Templar is fine just cause they can roll Stamplar and use 80% non class skills and do ok.
  • Ludof
    Ludof
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    As Templar I played all content End game PvE and PvP.
    Nothing to add.
    I had exactly the same feelings and thoughts:

    -Smart Healing System sucks;
    -Healing Ritual cast time is way too long ;
    -Sun Shield is useless;
    -As for Ultimates:Nova costs too much compared to Standard,Empowering/Crescent Sweep not worth it if you have Dawnbreaker,Remembrance can be usefull in 1.7 (?);
    -Vampire Bane damage is ridicolous;
    -Dark Flare travel time is too long;
    -Eclipse is situational since it's CC breakable (giving the opponent free CC immunity);
    -Backlash not even good for PvE;

    My suggestions:

    -Healing Ritual cast time should be 1s to be worth it ;
    -Sun Shield should be affected by a 25% reduction in PvP , not 50% and last 10s;
    -As for Ultimates:Nova cost should be decreased to 200,Empowering/Crescent Sweep damage should be increased by 20%;
    -Vampire Bane damage should be increased by 10-20%;
    -Dark Flare Cast time should be decreased to 0.8s and its travel time halved;
    -Eclipse shouldn't be CC breakable but it could be cleansed;
    -Backlash ,Imo it should be replaced with a new skill;
    Edited by Ludof on August 23, 2015 12:51PM
    [EP-EU]
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    Ludof - Dragonknight EP
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    Lùdof- Templar DC
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    tumblr_m2dnw9CqGe1qzzmvco1_500.jpg
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Stormborn- VR3 Sorcerer - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Fat Old Templar - lvl 19 Templar - PC [NA] BwB
  • Soris
    Soris
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    Pve templars are good. They can compete both dps, tank and obv heal roles with great success. Though dps part is done by stamina builds mostly, but still a thing.
    PvP wise.. They are not that bad in pts. But not as good as they were in 1.5. Still need few fixes and some tweaks here and there.
    But overall I cannot say they are garbage, nor best. Moderate, as they have always been.
    Welkynd [Templar/AD/EU]
  • Vatter
    Vatter
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    Kobaal wrote: »
    tumblr_m2dnw9CqGe1qzzmvco1_500.jpg

    LOL you have a VR14 DK, a VR14 NB and a lvl 19 templar. I think that couldn't possibly drive my point home further.
    Edited by Vatter on August 21, 2015 10:01PM
  • AfkNinja
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    Ignore Kobaal, he likes to come into like every Templar post and claim we are fine cause he got rekt by a Stamina Templar once. To him this is definitive proof that we are fine, even though he has no experience actually playing the class at relevant levels. Also, I find it amusing that he never directly talks about the issues we bring up, his whole argument is "JESUS BEAM LOL UR FINE".
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Templar dps is the 2nd best from what I saw so far, and I saw a lot. Not sure where you're taking this information from.
    Templars deal nasty DPS in pve, only DKs can outdps it. The bes DPS' I know are Templars, one of them Magicka and the other one stamina.
    Edited by Dracane on August 21, 2015 10:26PM
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    AfkNinja wrote: »
    Ignore Kobaal, he likes to come into like every Templar post and claim we are fine cause he got rekt by a Stamina Templar once. To him this is definitive proof that we are fine, even though he has no experience actually playing the class at relevant levels. Also, I find it amusing that he never directly talks about the issues we bring up, his whole argument is "JESUS BEAM LOL UR FINE".

    and biting jabs, don't forget biting jabs brah.
    Edited by Kobaal on August 21, 2015 10:31PM
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Stormborn- VR3 Sorcerer - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Fat Old Templar - lvl 19 Templar - PC [NA] BwB
  • Vatter
    Vatter
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Templar dps is the 2nd best from what I saw so far, and I saw a lot. Not sure where you're taking this information from.
    Templars deal nasty DPS in pve, only DKs can outdps it. The bes DPS' I know are Templars, one of them Magicka and the other one stamina.

    let me ask you this. since you only posted on how you think templar is 2nd in PVE DPS, would you agree with the entirety of the rest of the breakdown?
  • Kobaal
    Kobaal
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    Also since this is in the PTS section you guys can also check out the other "Why is Templar the worst class" thread in the general section as well:

    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/209304/is-templars-where-intended-to-be-the-weakest-class-in-pvp/p1

    This way we can all keep up on the Templar sucky-ness issue. There are some good posts in there as well.

    Although Kudos to OP for taking the time to write up your arguments as well as give recommendations for fixing them. Your post is a lot easier to read than the other one and is put together much better.
    Edited by Kobaal on August 21, 2015 10:38PM
    Kobaal - VR16 Dragon Knight - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Shadowborn - VR16 NightBlade - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Kobaal Stormborn- VR3 Sorcerer - PC [NA] Azura Star
    Fat Old Templar - lvl 19 Templar - PC [NA] BwB
  • hellkrasher
    hellkrasher
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    Is true that Templars and DKs are the classes with the least viable builds. DKs in pvp have been using the same bars since release, shield charge, flame lash, dragon blood, shield, talons. Over a year DKs have switched 1-2 skills... it just ridiculous.

    Templars are not much different in pvp. Half of the skills are completely useless or super super situational.
    Aldmeri Dominion Characters: Hellkrasher, Hellcrasher, Hell Krasher, Hell Crasher, Hellcrash.

    VR16 Dunmer DK
    VR16 Arognian Templar
    VR14 Argonian DK
    VR14 Altmer Sorcerer
    VR11 Khajit Nightblade
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Vatter wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Templar dps is the 2nd best from what I saw so far, and I saw a lot. Not sure where you're taking this information from.
    Templars deal nasty DPS in pve, only DKs can outdps it. The bes DPS' I know are Templars, one of them Magicka and the other one stamina.

    let me ask you this. since you only posted on how you think templar is 2nd in PVE DPS, would you agree with the entirety of the rest of the breakdown?

    No I wouldn't, not with everything.
    I also don't disagree with everything.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • Vatter
    Vatter
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    Dracane wrote: »
    Vatter wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Templar dps is the 2nd best from what I saw so far, and I saw a lot. Not sure where you're taking this information from.
    Templars deal nasty DPS in pve, only DKs can outdps it. The bes DPS' I know are Templars, one of them Magicka and the other one stamina.

    let me ask you this. since you only posted on how you think templar is 2nd in PVE DPS, would you agree with the entirety of the rest of the breakdown?

    No I wouldn't, not with everything.
    I also don't disagree with everything.

    a little vague but fair enough
  • Dracane
    Dracane
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    Vatter wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Vatter wrote: »
    Dracane wrote: »
    Templar dps is the 2nd best from what I saw so far, and I saw a lot. Not sure where you're taking this information from.
    Templars deal nasty DPS in pve, only DKs can outdps it. The bes DPS' I know are Templars, one of them Magicka and the other one stamina.

    let me ask you this. since you only posted on how you think templar is 2nd in PVE DPS, would you agree with the entirety of the rest of the breakdown?

    No I wouldn't, not with everything.
    I also don't disagree with everything.

    a little vague but fair enough

    I know :) Well, you wrote a lot. I'm switching between the game and forums all the time.
    It would take a bit too long to break down everything and to give my opinion on everyone you wrote.
    Auri-El is my lord,
    Trinimac is my shield,
    Magnus is my mind.

    My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos
  • xaraan
    xaraan
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    Odd, I agree with most of the general problems you list with the class, but hardly with any of the specific problems or solutions you offer. Different opinions and all I guess.

    I think biting jabs is fine as is and pretty strong, if not too strong if a player knows what they are doing with their build. But I may leave it as is if I was changing the class around and see what happens. Most I would do is change the burning light passive to only proc once on the jabs and not a chance each time.

    Radiant destruction. As a templar, I hate this skill. One of the worst skills they've added IMO, but obviously so many love the yeezus beam. Personally, I don't think any channel should be allowed on a player more than once - if you are already getting hit with a channel like radiant, then another one shouldn't work on you. It's already bad enough trying to fight outnumbered, then throw on a half dozen jesus beams and it just gets stupid. My biggest pet peeve has to be healers not healing when they are supposed to (not saying all templars have to be healers - but if you are, heal first, damage second) and giving them an execute that's a channel is a recipe for no heals when the group needs it. Personally, if they wanted to give Templars an execute, I probably would have done something useful with Backlash and it's morphs and created a different offensive power instead of Radiant. If we have to keep it in this fantasy redesign, I'd have it do the damage of when you applied it, so if you put it on at 90% health, then you don't get the bonus up damage from someone else damaging them and bringing them under 20%, but likewise on doing the execute damage even on heal up. I'd also go with the one channeled effect at a time on a player. But giving templars more offensive options that are good will make a difference in that not mattering all that much.

    Honestly, I'd have rather seen Backlash get the execute treatment (has a cooler effect too IMO) and turn blinding flashes (which radiant replaced) into some sort of escape power for a templar. It could do a blinding effect and teleport backwards a couple meters or something similar, or blind and create a temporary illusion of the caster at the spot, etc. I'd toss around some ideas to give them a unique escape or utility with that power.

    Solar Flare and Sunfire (and morphs) could probably use a little love to make them more appealing and not make radiant look like the only useful attack.

    Healing Ritual and its morphs leave a little to be desired. I would either go two ways here: 1. make the heal a heal over time for the casting time, so if you are channeling it two seconds for XX health, then you get that health back divided out every half second. or 2. Simply allow it to hit more than 6 people.

    Repentance is awesome as is, don't touch that. But the other morph leaves a lot to be desired now with the changes to buffs (minor/major stuff). What they need to do is get rid of the fact Radiant Aura gives you a buff and have it give either a percentage or set number back on top of any other buffs. (Also, the change to no stam regen while blocking inherently makes any ability that gives regen boosts back less appealing than a version that just gives you a bunch of stam straight away, so that needs addressed to). Personally, I like the set regen, just have it give like XX stam/health back per second for the duration (even while blocking) and it would compete well with Repentance.

    Restoring Focus is the weak morph of Rune Focus. I'd lose the healing bonus and go with a stam morph of this to help tanks and stam builds. Could allow it to give a similar return like channeled focus, but to stam. Giving set regen back (even while blocking again).

    I think the blazing shield and its morphs need to last longer. That shield is as close to useless as you can get now without it actually being useless.

    I'm pretty happy with most of the spear line aside from the shield, but the charge could use some work and Javelin is a bit expensive.

    Most of their passives from all lines are ok, though I'd rather see them get a healing bonus to any type of heal used and not just the bonus applied to those couple spells from one tree.
    -- @xaraan --
    nightblade: Xaraan templar: Xaraan-dar dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus necromancer: Xaraan-qa warden: Xaraanodon sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
    AD • NA • PC
  • Draehl
    Draehl
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    I didn't read the OP post, but I'll simply say they're by far the least interesting class in the game. I have one but just for a few passives/self heals to make a simplistic brute force berserker-like weapon focused character. Unfortunately, the holy warrior archetype in most games tends to be more straightforward and mechanically not interesting play styles in most cases. Maybe it's just not for me.
    Edited by Draehl on August 22, 2015 12:39AM
    Main: Breton Nightblade "Shadow Cleric" (Sustained Damage/offhealer) 5L/2H - Resto + S&B
    Alt: Argonian Dragonknight (Stam DoTs/Tank) 5H/2M - S&B + Bow
    Alt: Nord Templar Berserker (Rawr) 5M/2H - Dual Wield + Two Hander
    Alt: Altmer Sorceror (Pewpew) 7L - Destro + Resto
  • Dekkameron
    Dekkameron
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    I normally play my Templars with weapon skill heavy builds and i think they do alright
    - Veteran Combat Librarian -
  • danno8
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    A couple things you have wrong.

    RD still gets a bonus at 50% or lower. They just rescaled it so above 20% is not quite as potent as it was before. (just tested on PTS) Let's give credit where it is due, RD is a great skill. Currently our best by far. This is why Templars spam it.

    Channeled Focus give the magicka for the duration of the circle whether you are in the circle or not. You can wander half way across the map and as long as the circle is up you get the magicka return. The Spell/physical resist buff will last for 8 seconds outside the circle, and can be renewed by stepping in the circle again. This is a very good skill. (just tested on PTS)

    Now that Blazing Shield no longer has the double nerf on PTS, it is internally balanced again between defense and offense.

    As for the rest, I agree that Templar = Clunky.
  • david.haypreub18_ESO
    david.haypreub18_ESO
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    Might as well talk to the hand, because ZOS have not been listening to Templars for a long time now.

    They just refuse to listen to what their players are telling them.
    Templars are 'just slower... by design'
    Yes, Gina actually said that (at least regarding Rushed Ceremony) right here:
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/161959/templar-skills-bugged-made-useless-ignored/p24
    VR 16 Templar (retired until Templars get fixed)
    VR 16 Sorcerer
    38 Nightblade
    24 DK
  • contact.opiumb16_ESO
    contact.opiumb16_ESO
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    danno8 wrote: »

    Channeled Focus give the magicka for the duration of the circle whether you are in the circle or not. You can wander half way across the map and as long as the circle is up you get the magicka return. The Spell/physical resist buff will last for 8 seconds outside the circle, and can be renewed by stepping in the circle again. This is a very good skill. (just tested on PTS)

    not anymore. read one of the last patch note on pts : channeled focus magicka restoration will now only given inside the circle.the armor/spell resist buff still works as you explained
  • Springt-Über-Zwerge
    Springt-Über-Zwerge
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    danno8 wrote: »

    Channeled Focus give the magicka for the duration of the circle whether you are in the circle or not. You can wander half way across the map and as long as the circle is up you get the magicka return. The Spell/physical resist buff will last for 8 seconds outside the circle, and can be renewed by stepping in the circle again. This is a very good skill. (just tested on PTS)

    not anymore. read one of the last patch note on pts : channeled focus magicka restoration will now only given inside the circle.the armor/spell resist buff still works as you explained

    Wait another nerf for templars? NICE
    PC,EU, EP
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  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    This thread is a joke right? Surely you can't be serious, if you are then you got some serious l2p issues.
    As for RD the execute range on this 30% not 20%
    As for jabs/puncturing sweep, it procs burning light, so does shards and sweep/jabs.

    If played correctly and speced correctly, templar dps in pve and pvp can be very dangerous, magicka and/or stamina.

    Pro tip; being templar your main damage source comes from Thaumaturge, make use of it and Proximity Detonation/Dawnbreaker.

    Some old and new dps screenshots from trials and vdsa

    tMoTPhN.png
    xck79Us.png
    JFqYzQn.png
    JYb8Vb0.png
    KXIQ1Hy.png
    NGJPo8M.png

    And the best ever
    TPfAXGw.png
    Edited by Nifty2g on August 22, 2015 12:19PM
    #MOREORBS
  • Fizzlewizzle
    Fizzlewizzle
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    tMoTPhN.png
    xck79Us.png
    JFqYzQn.png
    JYb8Vb0.png
    KXIQ1Hy.png
    NGJPo8M.png

    And the best ever
    TPfAXGw.png
    [/quote]
    I wanna know your equipment, cus that is some nice Radiant Destruction work you have there.

    That aside. Most people (even Templars) hate Radiant because of what it is.
    I'm mostly Neutral about it, since i don't mind channels... but i can't get enough firepower behind it myself.
    Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    tMoTPhN.png
    xck79Us.png
    JFqYzQn.png
    JYb8Vb0.png
    KXIQ1Hy.png
    NGJPo8M.png

    And the best ever
    TPfAXGw.png
    I wanna know your equipment, cus that is some nice Radiant Destruction work you have there.

    That aside. Most people (even Templars) hate Radiant because of what it is.
    I'm mostly Neutral about it, since i don't mind channels... but i can't get enough firepower behind it myself.
    For PvE 4pc Cyrodill's Light, 4pc martial knowledge, 2pc Adroitness, 2pc Torug's pact (2 nirn swords)
    For PvP 4pc Magnus (2 nirn swords), 4pc Healer, 4pc Cyrodill's Light

    I like max magicka builds :)
    Edited by Nifty2g on August 22, 2015 12:41PM
    #MOREORBS
  • Francescolg
    Francescolg
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    Some minor Issues:
    - Radiant Aura gives the same buff as potions, instead it should be a "special buff", as many other classes have some sort of buff, which is not counted as "minor or major xy" (so I call it "a class special buff", not shared by potions). So, there needs to be a "templar stamina/hp regeneration buff", which is not counted as "major xx", otherwise the skill's morph is useless, as potions are the way to go.

    - Blazing Shield should be considered a "special class absorb shield" and after the huge nurf to the HP-system, it should be given a stamina and a magicka morph, to bring it in-line with other class's absorb shield.

    - The biggest issues remain the templar's "clumsy" spells, which are easily interrupted (even healing) by any crushing-shock/poison arrow spammer, or which have not-so-well done animations, which cost us important seconds. (Try to interrupt an NB or a mage or a DK in PvP --> have fun)
    OR make other classes "core abilities" also casted/channeled: surprise attack; velocious curse, DK-DD spells, etc.
    OR make not-casted/not-channeled spells MUCH weaker, why do we templars lose time channeling/casting, while we could be spamming skills as Hidden Blade, which are WAY more effective than our own class skills

    - The class's damage skills should be comparable damage-wise to ranged weapon (dd) damage skills. Since 1.3+, I feel that stamina classes can ALSO be better DDs than every other spec (ranged DD and AE wise, if not sorcerer). For non-sorcerer classes, who wish to play a ranged DD class, melee-weapons should be "less-well off" as "ranged damage spells", as going deeply into stamina, even as a ranged class, at the current state of the game, has more advantages than draw-backs.

    ---> Compare: Dark Flare to skills as Hidden Blade, if both chars have 2500 weapon/spell damage. (best spell to compare it to, is the "Aurora Javelin", try to compare them!)
    ---> Imo, Hidden Blade feels like a MUCH stronger DD-"Spell" than any (!) templar ranged DD-class skill, why?
    ---> Steel Tornado feels like a MUCH stronger PBAE than Solar Barrage.. It can do 2 up to 4 times the damage (even considering the 20% damage buff and the passive proc!), it can't be blocked, etc. etc.

    (Just my personal notes, after having tried a stamina-templar and being shocked)

    Your ideas to change Jabs, to make it similar to Wrecking Blow, are very good!
    Edited by Francescolg on August 22, 2015 1:26PM
  • Farorin
    Farorin
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    AfkNinja wrote: »
    Thank you, I'm sick of people acting like Templar is fine just cause they can roll Stamplar and use 80% non class skills and do ok.

    I have a stampler, and I use almost no class skills, because all the class skills are either useless, or near useless, so even though I do okay, it still sucks compared to other classes, and there is almost no room for variety or improvement seeing as how limited the pool of viable skill choices is.
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    You can contrive to be competitive at anything you want do on Templar(stam dps, magicka dps, tank, heal, pvp, pve, whatever.) We have build that work for anything you need to do. That said, I do agree that the design and polishing seems a bit off when compared to other classes. The only two things in the game that we really excel at are healing and taking advantage of the poorly designed portal mechanics in Vet DSA. We have a lot of pointless skills and our class ultimates are pretty bad.
    Edited by timidobserver on August 22, 2015 1:23PM
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Kas
    Kas
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    i am a templar player and as much as i would love to see (and think them justified) buffs to our class, i have to disagree with much you write:

    1. non-top dps: stam templar is currently on live the #1 dps in many situations. however, this might simply be due to the fact that biting jabs is the perfect skill to exploit (sometimes not even willingly) the broken camo hunter. My stamplar twink uses many class skills (for PvE) and pulls north of 30k on almost everything (ofc not on warrior, for example). but then again, let's forget abbout PvE.

    2. smart healing + BoL: the smart healing system effects almost everyone. healing ward is an extremely crucial skill for self healing and it is even beneficial to wait for the cast as long as possible. getting screwd by smart healing is a lot more problematic for the ward than it is for BoL (which still has the secondary heal component and is often worth to be cast way before the very last second. Healing ward should be cast at the very last second if you really want to min/max your resources.

    3. eclipse: anyone who simply instantly break this skill plays into your cards. especially with the damage included not puring but breaking it means you drain a significant amount of stamina, deal a little damage and basically trade an action ofr an action. simply casting fear so that enemies have to break it is also a beneficial thing for NBs. the bigger problem is if this skill is purged (by any morph of the support purge oder ritual) which results in a loss for the templar casting it (unless someone uses cleanse without needing the HP). Even bigger problem is if the enemy does see no need to remove it (e.g. a sorc wants to streak and reapply shield anyway, or if you're stupid enough to cast it on someone who's skills are not effected). then it's essentially a free CC immunity.

    4. shards are really awesome. when solo you can zone out the enemy. e.g. throwing shard onto yourself prior to starting RD is often a very good move. many players will want to engage you to bash (without block to be quick). ideally you hit and stun them and get a pretty long RD through. in small groups the stam return from the synergy is awesome.


    All in all, I really don't think templar skills are bad or anything. The bigger problem is that they lack some of the totally increadible possibilities other classes have:

    Stam NBs have fear and cloak (and other skills) to use their magicka. Incredibly utility for magicka used on a stam/weapon damage build. Combine that with the fact that dodge role + vigor + rally make entire stam builds for every class and add on top that surprise attack and ambush actually dominate charge and most other single target spammables, you get a class where everyting just works together perfectly.

    Sorcs can build for magicka only and almost completely ignore health. This allows for incredible burst while being hard to kill themselves. streak used to give superb mobility on top and will still give in the next patch. however, streaking to completely leave + pick fights will be gone, significantly hitting many sorcs.

    DKs are in a similar spot as templar are. Still the combination of their flappy wings and the stamina return on skills and especially on ultimate make them very, very tanky while on the frontlines. However, some of that is taken away from them in the next patch.

    Im summary, I don't think templar skills are as bad as you put it. Instead, we somewhat lack the build with the incredible synergy between all you do. A real BUILD. Now, magicka templars can be build in light or in heavy armor and some skills will be used by everyone. However, very few (none?) top templars run the exact stame skills to my knowledge (not even with 1-2 flex slots). This is just not true for sorcs and stam NBs. They run VERY similar stuff, simply because all of the skills add up to an incredibly well-rounded build. THAT is what templars lack t
    Edited by Kas on August 22, 2015 1:34PM
    @bbu - AD/EU
    Kasiia - Templar (AR46)
    Kasiir Aberion - Sorc (AR38)
    Dr Kastafari - Warden (~AR31)
    + many others
  • Nifty2g
    Nifty2g
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    You can contrive to be competitive at anything you want do on Templar(stam dps, magicka dps, tank, heal, pvp, pve, whatever.) We have build that work for anything you need to do. That said, I do agree that the design and polishing seems a bit off when compared to other classes. The only two things in the game that we really excel at are healing and taking advantage of the poorly designed portal mechanics in Vet DSA. We have a lot of pointless skills and our class ultimates are pretty bad.
    1) Portal killing has been around since DSA was released.
    2) Shards, Solar Barrage and Jabs when used together is insane damage.
    3) Nova and Remembrance are amazing ultimate's, the synergy from nova and the damage mitigation AND the damage it deals. Probably top two of the best ultimate's in the game along side banner.

    In my honest opinion Templar at the moment is the most sufficient class compared to others, templars can tank, heal, stamina dps and magicka dps. If Templars had chains they would be maybe the best tank.

    Is it just a bandwagon thing people are hopping onto to say the class is weak? Honestly I don't see how it's weak. The ONE thing I want to be stronger which it deserves to be is the heal from Puncturing Sweep, since it can't crit, increase the heal to make it useful in a raid situation so I don't die cause my block is down when using the ability in PvP please

    Another thing to note, you guys should start using 2 swords on your templars if you're noticing weak damage output ;)
    Edited by Nifty2g on August 22, 2015 1:36PM
    #MOREORBS
  • Teiji
    Teiji
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    Farorin wrote: »
    AfkNinja wrote: »
    Thank you, I'm sick of people acting like Templar is fine just cause they can roll Stamplar and use 80% non class skills and do ok.

    I have a stampler, and I use almost no class skills, because all the class skills are either useless, or near useless, so even though I do okay, it still sucks compared to other classes, and there is almost no room for variety or improvement seeing as how limited the pool of viable skill choices is.

    Better of sticking to Magicka builds for all classes except for Nightblade if you want your respective class to look and feel like your class besides using maybe a class ultimate.

    Class identity, where?
    "Serving Boethiah is Freedom, embracing heroism is Liberty, existing solely for noxiphilic sanguivoria is truth." - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    European megaserver Fallout 4

    Loyalist of Boethiah, heroism enthusiast, exposer of secrets, bless'ed of noxiphilic sanguivoria.

    Nerf one grind, two more take its place; hail Gryndra!


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