Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.

The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.

RoyJade wrote: »

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.

We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.

The armor that hardened ward provides simply does not compare, at all, to igneous shield. Not only that it does nothing in conjunction with igneous shield, as shields provide no mitigation. I took this more seriously when you were talking about the bubble than the major ward/resolve. Seriously? it's okay to nerf igneous shield because we have major ward/resolve? Do you know how easy it is to penetrate this much armor?

Do you know what plethora means?

Are you kidding me? Shields were only ever a MINOR part of DK? How long have you even been playing DK? Surely you must of missed the whole pre 1.6 shield stacking with harness magicka, or the whole frag shield meta? If you think it's a minor role then you must have started at or after 1.6 where everyone left for stamina because of the light armor nerf. As it is now on live it's the only thing keeping us alive in light armor.

As I said before there is a separate shield for the DK, and a separate shield for the group. They are isolated, and no they are not just for the group. That is why there is a specific difference for the DK, right there in the tool tip plain as day.

I am shocked that you are resulting to insulting my knowledge of vocabulary because you are ceasing to prove an valid point in your opinion. I agree the hardened armor and buffs cannot compare to shields, I admit I believed it to be a stupid example to begin with but IS a good example of a damage reduction that is non-comparable to any other class. Moving on past your pathetic insult to my use of language. I am not kidding you, we are discussing igneous shield here and class abilities, we were never not comparing and drawing in additional exterior non class abilities applicable to all classes into this debate.
As you continue to state, yes there is a difference in shields from personal to group. But what you fail to grasp is you won't get a hardened ward style shield for yourself AND smaller shields for your ally's AND healing increases in the case of igneous all in one ability as this would be OP. What you're really asking for here is a complete overhaul of the ability to be similar to Blazing shield or hardened ward which I have said before is not what the ability was intended to be.

Sharmony wrote: »

My apologies for when you single out a statement which is clearly a question of someones vocabulary and use of it, you do judge them somewhat in doing so, best to not bother I believe in pointing it out in the first place. And here begins the list of the meaning of the word Plethora when concerning Dragonknight specific damaging reductions etc... to prove how puffed up you make yourself sound by blowing down logical points. Hardened armor provides a damage shield with both the Major Ward and Resolve buffs which is versatile due to it's ability to be placed on an off bar, it's duration and it's mobility. It is non comparable to any other class skills such as Templar which has Rune Focus where the player must be stationary or return to the rune every few seconds to regain the buff before the effects dissipate. Major Ward and Resolve buffs do decrease damage intaken, not as viable as shields yes, but still a damage reduction buff nether-the-less over other classes options to receive such buffs. Choking Talons, a common ability used in PvP has the unique ability to inflict minor maim to an AoE group of players. Reduction of damage from players increases the survivability of the DK further in both PvE and PvP. Coagulating Blood gives you a boost to healing, yes it is a stronger heal when used at lower health yet is more open to execute as you said. Yet what you have failed to mention is the minor vitality buff of 8% which increases healing taken at all levels of health, meaning that if you do not fall into execute range, instead preferring to use this ability at say 35% health you will not fall prey to it's downfalls and still receive considerable benefits. Dragon Fire Scale simply doesn't compare to any other ability as it is a multi use, multi weapon flexible ability that returns additional damage to the person firing any projectile, increasing survivability. I will not bother to go into passives as this would be a further waste of my time typing this. Point in proof, yes, there are a plethora of dragonknight specific damage reductions that gives them increased survivability to other classes in their own unique way without stacking damage shields. They are as strong as the abilities they are given, if you don't believe me or the abilities you use as a Dragonknight, your choice

Sharmony wrote: »

Bringing this conversation back to where it's supposed to be focused, do you really think these abilities, when coupled with other weapon based and as you eluded to yourself guild based abilities require there to be any additional abilities such as a buff to an ability such as igneous shield that is required within the class? Even with the cyrodiil nerf, despite the measly reduction to the damage shield you are still here complaining that the ability is under-powered and unduly nerfed along with the shields that have been nerfed for everyone to greater or lesser degrees? ESO have opted to nerf everything equally and, in doing so, reducing everyone's shield's by a flat rate is fair enough. The fact that this singular ability has additional benefits due to it's morphs which make the nerf hit less hard on the class should give you no room to even complain here in this forum. Blazing shield's total shield and also it's damage reflected are tied together in the shields nerf, so the ability as a whole has been nerfed, likewise is the case for hardened ward. Comparing this to igneous the entire ability has not been nerfed, only a part of it, whereas the morph buffs it provides have not been effected, e.g. the 30% healing buff. I agree with you, precise nerfs on skills are needed in a game where balancing issues arise, but to complain that a flat nerf to damage shields is not a good enough nerf and unfair to Dragonknight's is false when seeing the above to nerfs to two other class abilities that have been hit far worse by comparison. I understand that the nerf to shields was indeed pointed out at particular skills in general, I applaud ESO for acknowledging this. I do not believe an entire nerf to all shields in PvP in particular is reasonable, however if all shields are nerfed then we have simply weakened the absorb mechanic. Even in 1.6 shields like igneous was never one of the most used abilities and hence not many used the ability in PvP yet we are still discussing it in this light. In PvE the ability is still as good as it ever was.

Sharmony wrote: »

Moreover, my comments as to why I am on this thread is evident above, with clear evidence and non-speculative statements grounded in fact and reality from the PTS you can form a valid opinion of what should be nerfed, and whether such nerfs are unfair or not. To complain that in any way the nerf to shields leaves dk any less worth off or any unjust compared to other classes is laughable due to the flat rate of the nerf. I agree that a flat nerf may have not been the best option on ESO's part but to have a special change to the ability or boost in their shields on a relatively unused ability in PvP? Seriously? This is the point where I agree about precise nerfs of other abilities, but not with precise buffs as was discussed in the initial of this thread and later on by greater caster damage shields whilst there are flat nerf's occuring to everything else.

Sharmony wrote: »

Finally to round up my last point on this post, you state the following:

"Precisely. I've tried, no one takes a DK seriously specifically because of the mechanic of resto healing and group dynamics. BOL doesn't care if you are clustered, and that is the be all and end all of effective healing...unless you are in a zerg ball. It's not the strength of your heal that ultimately matters, it's the mechanic of your heal and group dynamics. Aside from forming the green caterpillar in cyrodiil that is what matters most, and igneous shield does nothing to overcome the limited nature of the resto staff line."

Following this up with:

"I was referring to both PvP and PvE in that statement. Group dynamics and heal mechanics persist whether you are in cyrodiil or elsewhere."

I agree in cyrodiil resto healing is not versatile enough at the moment and breath of life is king, but this does not mean that a 30% healing increase when combined to any skill makes the skill any less valid to use despite when not being combined with healing springs. Moreover, you have hideously underestimated the importance of BoL in PvE, being a zerg ball is in many cases one the most effective ways of carrying out PvE for healing purposes. Yes, healing mechanics are universal as you said, but group mechanics, abilities and skills vary quite substantially from PvE to PvP bringing me back to an earlier point where I stated that not all skills clearly have a use in both. I am not saying this is specifically where igneous falls, I leave that up to your interpretation.

silky_soft wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

/snip

topic: ZOS nerfed all damage shields across the board to deal with shieldstacking (which only 1 class does really good compared to the others) and probably didn't even think about DK/temp shields. Hopefully they buff them up in the future, or give them other benefits.

Or they could of just done this. Scale off HP and if a shield is up and you recast before it gets removed 33% cost increase. Then either Limit max shields to max hp (barrier ulti being exception, but does not stack) or limit to 150% of hp and make them critable.