Igneous / Fragmented Shields are now useless - please re-evaluate.

Dracane

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I like how everyone keeps saying that Igneous shield is still good because of the 30% healing increase.

No it's not.

Igneous shield is a specific morph of Obsidian Shield. The actual skill provides NO healing increase as does the other morph, fragmented shield. Your argument goes down the toilet for anyone who did not happen to pick that specific morph.

The purpose of a damage shield is to protect the user, not provide a healing bonus. I realize you sorcerers out there are so used to abusing hardened ward that you just take it for granted that all damage shields give insane protection, but us mere mortal non-sorcs do not have such a benefit. If I wanted healing bonuses, I'd slot a restoration staff or play a Templar. If I am using a damage shield, I want to be like you sorcs and have something that provides reasonable damage mitigation for the amount of resources I am expending.

Why don't we take your hardened ward skill, scale it to health, and then throw in that 30% healing increase and see how you like it.

Cool, give us reflective scales and green dragonblood and we can give it a shot. And the 5% stamina restore earthern heart passive, yea I want that either.

Dude, just roll a DK if you think all their abilities are good.

Roll a Sorc if you think all their abilities are so good.

Sharmony

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

Dracane

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

Well spooken, you are 100% right. Each damage shield in the game fullfills its own role, Igneous shield fullfills a powerfull role and has a powerfull effect. I see no need to change anything here.

It makes Dragonknight healers extremely mighty and allows high health tanks to protect their allies a bit better.

tordr86b16_ESO

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

Dracane

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

You would, but you can't. This shield has to fullfill it's role and it's up to you if you want to make use of it's strong effect or not. There are 2 other mighty shields in the game that you can use. If you refuse to use them as well, hm then I can't help you. Sorcerers have to use 3 shields to survive, why should you be an exception ? Dragonknights actually need 0 shields to survive, because their defense is so strong.

Sharmony

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.

tordr86b16_ESO

Sharmony wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.

tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.

Dracane

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.

tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.

Nobody has a 16k shield -.- Hardened Ward is like 8k for average Sorcerers now.

Sharmony

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.

You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.

tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.

3k on yourself and a smaller amount on 6 others. I mean common, Maths man. It's roughly the same amount of shields depending on CP and bastion.

Darlon

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.

apart from that 16k sorc shields don't exist anymore on the pts (in pvp areas)

Saturn

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

*Applauds* Well done!

Sharmony

Saturn wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

*Applauds* Well done!

Merci!

Armitas

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group. They are two different things for two different purposes, one is for the dk and the other is for the group.

The earthen heart line is meant to be a buffing line with special access for the DK, that is why the former skills ran parallel between the DK and the group. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too which is essentially why we are granted special access in this line.

Sharmony

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Armitas

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Sharmony

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

Dracane

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Scales is unique. It reflects all projectiles. While the Sorcerer absorb absorbs only magical projectiles.
A reflect is superior to an absorb, because you also harm your enemy the reflected projectile even deals more damage and reflective scale lasts 4 seconds, while the Sorcerer absorb only lasts 2,5 seconds and only absorbs magical projectiles.

Hands down, reflective scales is pretty much the strongest defense in the game. Basically all dangerous ranged attacks are projectiles, scales totally negate them.

bosmern_ESO

I'd like to point out that my Sorcerers hardened ward still gives me an 11k damage shield.

RoyJade

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Armitas

Dracane wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Scales is unique. It reflects all projectiles. While the Sorcerer absorb absorbs only magical projectiles.
A reflect is superior to an absorb, because you also harm your enemy the reflected projectile even deals more damage and reflective scale lasts 4 seconds, while the Sorcerer absorb only lasts 2,5 seconds and only absorbs magical projectiles.

Hands down, reflective scales is pretty much the strongest defense in the game. Basically all dangerous ranged attacks are projectiles, scales totally negate them.

It should be clear by the examples I mentioned that I'm speaking of generally unique not exactly unique. Otherwise the statement would be self refuting. Yes it is the strongest, not denying that, but we all have access to abilities just below that. It's not some huge potential that you go around making leveraging arguments in isolation to what other abilities are available.

Armitas

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 seconds but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.

The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed hard while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.

RoyJade wrote: »

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.

Sharmony

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.

The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.

RoyJade wrote: »

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.

We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.

trimsic_ESO

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

This is pure theory crafting, and is far from reality.

1) I don't know many DK playing a healer role.
2) The healing buff lasts for 7 seconds. The time you spend casting igneous shield is time you don't spend healing, right? So the 30% healing buff is not 30% more heal at the end.
3) In PVP, both igneous shield and vigor, even when they work together, have a very low impact on the issue of the fight and take 2 slots in the bar if you want to use them both.

Joy_Division

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I like how everyone keeps saying that Igneous shield is still good because of the 30% healing increase.

No it's not.

Igneous shield is a specific morph of Obsidian Shield. The actual skill provides NO healing increase as does the other morph, fragmented shield. Your argument goes down the toilet for anyone who did not happen to pick that specific morph.

The purpose of a damage shield is to protect the user, not provide a healing bonus. I realize you sorcerers out there are so used to abusing hardened ward that you just take it for granted that all damage shields give insane protection, but us mere mortal non-sorcs do not have such a benefit. If I wanted healing bonuses, I'd slot a restoration staff or play a Templar. If I am using a damage shield, I want to be like you sorcs and have something that provides reasonable damage mitigation for the amount of resources I am expending.

Why don't we take your hardened ward skill, scale it to health, and then throw in that 30% healing increase and see how you like it.

Cool, give us reflective scales and green dragonblood and we can give it a shot. And the 5% stamina restore earthern heart passive, yea I want that either.

Dude, just roll a DK if you think all their abilities are good.

Roll a Sorc if you think all their abilities are so good.

Sorcerer since Beta. Unlike you, I am willing to admit in public that the class I play is broken.

RinaldoGandolphi

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I'd like to point out that my Sorcerers hardened ward still gives me an 11k damage shield.

Yup but a shield that is based on health that was already small to begin with that requires sacrificing magic or stamina points for health thus losing DPS are the shields that get really miffed with these changes....Blazing Shield for all intents and purposes is dead with the double nerf.

at least my Sorc will still have a viable damage shield, because it looks like my Templar won't unless ZOS makes some major changes between now and then which seems less likely by the day....

trimsic_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

I'd like to point out that my Sorcerers hardened ward still gives me an 11k damage shield.

Yup but a shield that is based on health that was already small to begin with that requires sacrificing magic or stamina points for health thus losing DPS are the shields that get really miffed with these changes....Blazing Shield for all intents and purposes is dead with the double nerf.

at least my Sorc will still have a viable damage shield, because it looks like my Templar won't unless ZOS makes some major changes between now and then which seems less likely by the day....

Yup, but damage shields that scale off magicka grant the sorc a strong defense along with a strong DPS. No trade off.

Armitas

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.

The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.

RoyJade wrote: »

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.

We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.

The armor that hardened ward provides simply does not compare, at all, to igneous shield. Not only that it does nothing in conjunction with igneous shield, as shields provide no mitigation. I took this more seriously when you were talking about the bubble than the major ward/resolve. Seriously? it's okay to nerf igneous shield because we have major ward/resolve? Do you know how easy it is to penetrate this much armor?

Do you know what plethora means?

Are you kidding me? Shields were only ever a MINOR part of DK? How long have you even been playing DK? Surely you must of missed the whole pre 1.6 shield stacking with harness magicka, or the whole frag shield meta? If you think it's a minor role then you must have started at or after 1.6 where everyone left for stamina because of the light armor nerf. As it is now on live it's the only thing keeping us alive in light armor.

As I said before there is a separate shield for the DK, and a separate shield for the group. They are isolated, and no they are not just for the group. That is why there is a specific difference for the DK, right there in the tool tip plain as day.

Sharmony

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

This is pure theory crafting, and is far from reality.

1) I don't know many DK playing a healer role.
2) The healing buff lasts for 7 seconds. The time you spend casting igneous shield is time you don't spend healing, right? So the 30% healing buff is not 30% more heal at the end.
3) In PVP, both igneous shield and vigor, even when they work together, have a very low impact on the issue of the fight and take 2 slots in the bar if you want to use them both.

You cannot be so dashing with your statements calling something 'pure theorycrafting', after all, any good setup in this game comes from theorycrafting.
1) I agree, but then again many do not know how powerful the effect of igneous is for burst healing. For PvP I agree, it might be less versatile than in PvE but in my experience this has not been the case thus far over the past few months.
2) This is just wrong. The time you spend casting the igneous buff on yourself you create a) a damage shield b) yes you don't do 30% more healing in the end, but it is far more worthwhile casting a igneous shield than another healing springs in this instance as the following 7 seconds of healing springs including the ones you already have placed do far more healing and are far more worthwhile than only spamming healing springs with no weaving of igneous shield. Possibly even actually doing 30% more healing overall (lost my numbers from this one).
3) This is somewhat true but entirely is based on how you have your build setup. From my experience this combo is still worthwhile when in a group (group shield + group healing).

Armitas

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

This is pure theory crafting, and is far from reality.

1) I don't know many DK playing a healer role.

Precisely. I've tried, no one takes a DK seriously specifically because of the mechanic of resto healing and group dynamics. BOL doesn't care if you are clustered, and that is the be all and end all of effective healing...unless you are in a zerg ball. It's not the strength of your heal that ultimately matters, it's the mechanic of your heal and group dynamics. Aside from forming the green caterpillar in cyrodiil that is what matters most, and igneous shield does nothing to overcome the limited nature of the resto staff line.

Sharmony

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.

The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.

The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.

I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).

If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?

Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.

Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.

You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.

The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.

RoyJade wrote: »

Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.

Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.

Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.

We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.

The armor that hardened ward provides simply does not compare, at all, to igneous shield. Not only that it does nothing in conjunction with igneous shield, as shields provide no mitigation. I took this more seriously when you were talking about the bubble than the major ward/resolve. Seriously? it's okay to nerf igneous shield because we have major ward/resolve? Do you know how easy it is to penetrate this much armor?

Do you know what plethora means?

Are you kidding me? Shields were only ever a MINOR part of DK? How long have you even been playing DK? Surely you must of missed the whole pre 1.6 shield stacking with harness magicka, or the whole frag shield meta? If you think it's a minor role then you must have started at or after 1.6 where everyone left for stamina because of the light armor nerf. As it is now on live it's the only thing keeping us alive in light armor.

As I said before there is a separate shield for the DK, and a separate shield for the group. They are isolated, and no they are not just for the group. That is why there is a specific difference for the DK, right there in the tool tip plain as day.

I am shocked that you are resulting to insulting my knowledge of vocabulary because you are ceasing to prove an valid point in your opinion. I agree the hardened armor and buffs cannot compare to shields, I admit I believed it to be a stupid example to begin with but IS a good example of a damage reduction that is non-comparable to any other class. Moving on past your pathetic insult to my use of language. I am not kidding you, we are discussing igneous shield here and class abilities, we were never not comparing and drawing in additional exterior non class abilities applicable to all classes into this debate.
As you continue to state, yes there is a difference in shields from personal to group. But what you fail to grasp is you won't get a hardened ward style shield for yourself AND smaller shields for your ally's AND healing increases in the case of igneous all in one ability as this would be OP. What you're really asking for here is a complete overhaul of the ability to be similar to Blazing shield or hardened ward which I have said before is not what the ability was intended to be.