Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I like how everyone keeps saying that Igneous shield is still good because of the 30% healing increase.
No it's not.
Igneous shield is a specific morph of Obsidian Shield. The actual skill provides NO healing increase as does the other morph, fragmented shield. Your argument goes down the toilet for anyone who did not happen to pick that specific morph.
The purpose of a damage shield is to protect the user, not provide a healing bonus. I realize you sorcerers out there are so used to abusing hardened ward that you just take it for granted that all damage shields give insane protection, but us mere mortal non-sorcs do not have such a benefit. If I wanted healing bonuses, I'd slot a restoration staff or play a Templar. If I am using a damage shield, I want to be like you sorcs and have something that provides reasonable damage mitigation for the amount of resources I am expending.
Why don't we take your hardened ward skill, scale it to health, and then throw in that 30% healing increase and see how you like it.
Cool, give us reflective scales and green dragonblood and we can give it a shot. And the 5% stamina restore earthern heart passive, yea I want that either.
Dude, just roll a DK if you think all their abilities are good.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.
You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.
You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.
tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I would gladly "sacrifice" its group buff for a stronger shield.
You might wish to, but then why are you simply trying to create a blazing shield or hardened ward for a DK? This is one skill, that is a mini barrier (albeit a tiny-tiny barrier in PvP) that distinguishes the DK. Moreover, you have to bare in mind that damage shields are an extension of your base health pool which can be reapplied before damage even hits your health pool making their power very potent. I agree the shield is somewhat smaller in PvP but once again, it is designed as a group ability, not as the single person shield ability you might wish it to be. Furthermore, how many DK abilities effect the group (inclusive of ultimate's)? It is very much a 'selfish class' to that extent and this ability is I think possibly one of the only strictly group beneficial skills.
tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.
tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »tell that to sorcs running with 16k shields, igneous is 3k now. now that is selfish.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
*Applauds* Well done!
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
Scales is unique. It reflects all projectiles. While the Sorcerer absorb absorbs only magical projectiles.
A reflect is superior to an absorb, because you also harm your enemy the reflected projectile even deals more damage and reflective scale lasts 4 seconds, while the Sorcerer absorb only lasts 2,5 seconds and only absorbs magical projectiles.
Hands down, reflective scales is pretty much the strongest defense in the game. Basically all dangerous ranged attacks are projectiles, scales totally negate them.
Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.
Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.
We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.
The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.
Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.
Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.
I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »I like how everyone keeps saying that Igneous shield is still good because of the 30% healing increase.
No it's not.
Igneous shield is a specific morph of Obsidian Shield. The actual skill provides NO healing increase as does the other morph, fragmented shield. Your argument goes down the toilet for anyone who did not happen to pick that specific morph.
The purpose of a damage shield is to protect the user, not provide a healing bonus. I realize you sorcerers out there are so used to abusing hardened ward that you just take it for granted that all damage shields give insane protection, but us mere mortal non-sorcs do not have such a benefit. If I wanted healing bonuses, I'd slot a restoration staff or play a Templar. If I am using a damage shield, I want to be like you sorcs and have something that provides reasonable damage mitigation for the amount of resources I am expending.
Why don't we take your hardened ward skill, scale it to health, and then throw in that 30% healing increase and see how you like it.
Cool, give us reflective scales and green dragonblood and we can give it a shot. And the 5% stamina restore earthern heart passive, yea I want that either.
Dude, just roll a DK if you think all their abilities are good.
Roll a Sorc if you think all their abilities are so good.
bosmern_ESO wrote: »I'd like to point out that my Sorcerers hardened ward still gives me an 11k damage shield.
Yup, but damage shields that scale off magicka grant the sorc a strong defense along with a strong DPS. No trade off.RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »bosmern_ESO wrote: »I'd like to point out that my Sorcerers hardened ward still gives me an 11k damage shield.
Yup but a shield that is based on health that was already small to begin with that requires sacrificing magic or stamina points for health thus losing DPS are the shields that get really miffed with these changes....Blazing Shield for all intents and purposes is dead with the double nerf.
at least my Sorc will still have a viable damage shield, because it looks like my Templar won't unless ZOS makes some major changes between now and then which seems less likely by the day....
We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.
The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.
Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.
Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.
You cannot be so dashing with your statements calling something 'pure theorycrafting', after all, any good setup in this game comes from theorycrafting.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
This is pure theory crafting, and is far from reality.
1) I don't know many DK playing a healer role.
2) The healing buff lasts for 7 seconds. The time you spend casting igneous shield is time you don't spend healing, right? So the 30% healing buff is not 30% more heal at the end.
3) In PVP, both igneous shield and vigor, even when they work together, have a very low impact on the issue of the fight and take 2 slots in the bar if you want to use them both.
trimsic_ESO wrote: »I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
This is pure theory crafting, and is far from reality.
1) I don't know many DK playing a healer role.
We are not discussing hardened armor here as a shield simply as a all damage in-taken reduction due to armor and spell resistance gained...Agreed on Dragon Blood. Wings is unique as it does four projectiles and yes weaker S/B alternatives are there but Ball of Lightning is being nerfed to hell so that's not a thing. Hardened Armor is more about the duration, it is an armor buff that you can move around with (unlike any other in the game currently that last a decent duration). Anyway, point being, we as DK's have plenty of self survivability and going back to the point of this debate here therefore don't need to be buffed to have even larger personal shields on an AoE shield ability.I don't think you've got the idea of this ability... Yes it is supposed to be a damage shield ability, let's begin there. The damage shield is applied to multiple players, not just a single player (imagine your annulment, healing ward applied to 6 players around you when you cast it, OP no?) and so receives diminishing returns due to the multiple players hit. Moreover, particularly the Igneous Morph's buff has no comparable skills that give this buff allowing players currently to hit 4.5k crits with Healing Springs compared to a Templar's 3.2k crits when standing around in Craglorn with the same gear, buffs etc (a simple test I know). I would cast this healing buff even if I didn't get a shield in PvP with something as strong as vigor or healing springs for example. I strongly believe that the shields are indeed perfectly pitched to a group of players as the ability is intended to be used, yes they are weaker than counterpart shields due to the diminishing returns that 1.7 PvP inflicts on them but their buffs beyond being simply a shield are incomparable to anything else this game provides. Moreover, has it been considered that not all abilities in this game are entirely designated for PvP and may favor PvE playstyles? Please refrain from making drastic assumptions as to the validity of the ability when you have not considered it's full extent.
The personal shield of igneous is separate from the group shield. They can be adjusted in isolation. The personal shield on it is solely for the DK who may or may not be in a group.
The earthen heart line was meant to be a buffing line, that is why there is a group shield on it in the first place. It should not be surprising that there are group buffs here and healing support, but those things can also be used by DKs, just as Templars have access to their own group heals. Buffing/support is one of our roles but surviving while solo is too.
I don't get as to why we're now discussing the personal shield of the DK but I don't think this needs to be changed either, I haven't heard a Nightblade complain they don't get a shield... at least we get one! And when we do have friends with us, they get some benefit (not to mention the bonuses aforementioned about igneous shield etc...).
If we're talking about solo survivability, you're seriously asking for more than Dragon Blood, Hardened Armour and Wings which are already incredibly powerful? Seriously?
Dragon blood is powerful in execute range, in 1.7 that execute range is even more dangerous to get a good heal out of it. Dragon wings are not unique, there is a projectile absorb in the sorc class, universal spell reflects in the s/b line, and reflects in the templar class. Hardened armor lasts 3.5 seconds I don't see any problem with it.
You can't do anything with hardened armor at 3.5 second but cast it over and over again till you run out of magicka and die. If you are 1vXing so many people that you have to cast this shield every 3.5 seconds it's only a matter of time before you run out of magicka and die. This is not a seriously powerful skill, it's a minor detour in pvp.
The point is that shields are a part of our classes survivability, and in 1.7 that has been nerfed by 50% while already sacrificing dps for it to be valuable. That we have other things to rely on does not negate that fact. It is certainly not the case that the ability to specifically reflect physical projectiles makes up for a 50% nerf to a core DK survivablity and group buff skill.Dragon wing is the unique skill in the entire game who can reflect non magic projectiles like bow attack and daggers, as I remember.
Remember also that dragon blood can't save you from execute range either, but nor the other non burst heal, all the heal are nerfed. The only real change with DB is the new meta and the execute rule who seem to be in 2.1. It's the same for everyone.
Actually healing ward can, and any other heal can be used efficiently before you reach execute range. GDB has diminishing returns.
Judging by your post you seem to wish to buff Dragonknights shields so the new meta for all is shield stacking when we already have a plethora of Dragonknight specific damage reductions, reflections etc... Shields were only ever a MINOR part of the Dragonknights spectrum of abilities meant to be used as a group focused shield.
The armor that hardened ward provides simply does not compare, at all, to igneous shield. Not only that it does nothing in conjunction with igneous shield, as shields provide no mitigation. I took this more seriously when you were talking about the bubble than the major ward/resolve. Seriously? it's okay to nerf igneous shield because we have major ward/resolve? Do you know how easy it is to penetrate this much armor?
Do you know what plethora means?
Are you kidding me? Shields were only ever a MINOR part of DK? How long have you even been playing DK? Surely you must of missed the whole pre 1.6 shield stacking with harness magicka, or the whole frag shield meta? If you think it's a minor role then you must have started at or after 1.6 where everyone left for stamina because of the light armor nerf. As it is now on live it's the only thing keeping us alive in light armor.
As I said before there is a separate shield for the DK, and a separate shield for the group. They are isolated, and no they are not just for the group. That is why there is a specific difference for the DK, right there in the tool tip plain as day.