so far I feel the 100% loss as to harsh. Especialy with ganking and surges.
It's nice when you have small groups going at mobs and eachother, but that was only for the first night the case.
The ballancing is an issue.
THe fact that you ahve to be in cyro to get into imp city and that whole cyro can get into imp city is quite challenging.
I raise questions about balancing, it feels we need some way of it.

I think the loss of stones to another player should be the same as what we would lose to npc's, it would also have the effect of stopping gankers by spawn spots etc. ie: the max someone should lose should be a max of 20% and to stop the zergs camping out or running around only the one who has the final blow should get them

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

This system will poison the pvp community and split people. Pvp where you can loot others always change behavior into something really nasty and evil, attracting a kind of player that honestly this game has not catered to until now.

The kind of player that doesn't pvp because they enjoy the challenge and the fun of testing your skill against others, but rather the kind of player that get his fun from destroying other peoples fun.

When a game allows the kind of people to have the kind of fun they crave the community goes to hell and what we have now will be lost.

Again we see ZoS not understanding the social dynamics of their player base and this dlc will end up costing them a lot of their current income from the game.

I have to say this is very psychologically accurate. For the same reason the studied-to-death nature of internet anonymity turns otherwise socially-held decent people into complete jerks, the anonymous ability to steal TV stones will produce some horrid behaviour that will simply be the exact opposite of fun that a video game is supposed to supply.

On the other hand, I completely sympathize with the anti-carebear camp that says grow a thicker skin.

In the several hours I've explored IC so far, the amount of opportunities to 'cheap shot' players near death has been overwhelming. I am an extremely inexperienced PVPer but the amount of times I was completely hidden in corners and bushes and watched enemy players come to within Jesus Beam execute range was a lot.

Long story short: grow a thicker skin or not, a video game system that anonymously rewards what in most sports would be considered cheap shots, must inevitably by definition produce a culture of cheap shot style playing. For those into that, all power to you. I suspect a lot of players aren't into that.

The only thing off the top of my head I can think of is making one of the campaign servers immune to corpse-stealing. That is, one server and one server only should be like all the others except there is no taking enemy player TV stones upon killing them. This minimizes the incentive to cheap shot so that players who want to play 'sportsmanlike' won't be pushed into psychopathic behaviour just to keep up.

The concept of losing your Tel Var stones to players no matter how you slice it, is very very toxic.

driosketch wrote: »

I think we should go ahead and just lose the minimum TVS deposit limit. After you get your first 50, you can just go ahead and deposit any amount by withdrawing what you need to cover the remaining gap to the limit.

Unfortunately I can't "Agree" and "Insightful" together, otherwise I would have done

simple is as simple does if the ganking is not put to an end and the loss of all stones is not fixed the hardcore players will find little or no one in there to play with or fight against, simple understanding of this needs to be taking in or the ic will be empty once everyone gets there achievements. I will still go in because by then it will be easy to get all the gear

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO wrote: »

Saddiq wrote: »

The only thing off the top of my head I can think of is making one of the campaign servers immune to corpse-stealing. That is, one server and one server only should be like all the others except there is no taking enemy player TV stones upon killing them. This minimizes the incentive to cheap shot so that players who want to play 'sportsmanlike' won't be pushed into psychopathic behaviour just to keep up.

Only problem with that will be that you will have to wait in a queue forever to get into that server because the wast majority of players will select it as their home server and the hardcores will complain there is no one to "play" with.

The actual problem with this, is that everyone will go to this campaign to get their TV Stones. It would leave all other servers empty as you say. Would invalidate the whole concept of TV's and the theft of them.

The real question that people re posing here is how to remove the "Cheap Shot/Kill" merchants. Whether there is a mechanic that could determine who has inputed on the high percentage of damage, rather than the "final" kill shot.

I love this 100%. And that's it. It's like salt and pepper for PvP. That's all you need to enjoy the completed taste of PvP-dish.

I don't think that some of the players understand that EVERYONE is being forced to PvP just to get the V15-V16 armor. There is no other way as the guild vendors don't work. Even sending all of the dropped gear to my master crafter yielded only three ingots so loosing 100% of the TV stones is NOT an option.

It's not going to work.

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

I don't think that some of the players understand that EVERYONE is being forced to PvP just to get the V15-V16 armor. There is no other way as the guild vendors don't work. Even sending all of the dropped gear to my master crafter yielded only three ingots so loosing 100% of the TV stones is NOT an option.

It's not going to work.

This is completely false - nobody is being forced to PVP to get V15-16 gear and the constant rumors/false statements being made about this are accomplishing nothing but stirring up panic on the forums. It's entirely possible the chance to get ingots from deconstructing v15-16 item drops is too low - this would be as much a problem for PVPers as PVE players getting these drops from dungeons....random mobs in IC don't drop large amounts of armor/weapons either.

My experience of the day:
Played for two hours , gained 300+ stones banked 0 . (i was lagging very bad since i play from italy so i dont pretend to stand with 1k plus in two hours)

Imho the sistem is fine but please remove the minimum of 50 for banking

Well, I tried it and it's hardly a secret I expected not to enjoy it but to be fair I didn't see many enemy players at all during the 45 minutes or so I roamed the sewers, the only one I saw camped out while I did a boss fight & then one shot me as I was on low health having just won the fight, I didn't have many stones but I lost them all of course... however I also died several times to daedra in truly epic lag and just couldn't be bothered to carry on from there.

BTW ZOS - it would help if you at least gave us 4 1-handed weapons in the boxes for the cookie characters (as my EU toon is not available yet) difficult to go DW/DW with only 3

From talking to people in my guilds who have been on longer it is pretty much sounding like the aggravated mugging simulator many predicted & like it would be bringing out the worst in players and gating necessary PvE sets (like that tanking one) behind PvP content... altering a key game mechanic (tank blocking) to force grinding for sets locked in paid for PvP content is both transparent and pretty morally bankrupt - if you wanted to play fair they would at least drop in the dungeons.

And time and numbers will prove this one way or the other but I feel this DLC's drive to push people to behave horribly to each other is going to drive away a lot of the sort of people who have been attracted to the game so far. The voices loving it are the same voices who see other taking players fun as their rightful pleasure, they talk of risk and reward knowing that they are the top end gankers who will take minimal risk and get maximum reward.

It's just a shame ZOS seem to feel that this is a play style they want to promote over all others because taking part here is going to be the only way to get VR15-16 anything... gear, recipes, materials... it's all gated behind a wall of sociopathic muggers. So basically those who get off on stabbing others will prosper and those that don't will see themselves crushed not only in IC but in al other content too as they will not have access to level appropriate gear unless they pay a ransom to the same muggers.

I'll try again when I have access to my character and gear sets because I want to keep playing this game... but I feel like my time here is drawing to a close because I am not the sort of player the new regime of devs want here.

[quote="nikolaj.

Well if everyone goes to a server without TV loot, doesn't it show that the entire system is a failure and should not be in the game at all?[/quote]

No, it just means that people, like water, will take the path of least resistance.

ZOS chose to use the "Everyone has access" option right from the start and limit us to one campaign. Spawn and door camping needs to be dealt with and that needed to be seen. Ok, done that now so lets try some of the other access options and see if it's a bit more balanced that way and move on from what I see as the Worst Case scenario.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

But the gear bought with Tel Var stones should be a lot better.

Could you elaborate on this, @DDuke? What improvements/changes would you like to see? Where do you feel they're currently lacking?

You guys said V15-16 gear was going ot be much more powerful.. in terms of the gap change. Right now V16 gear has 1 point of an increase over v15.. why? whats the point in being v16 then? TV stones are perfect with 100% loss... You can escape prettty easy or even avoid the loss by getting killed by a mob wich is pretty easy to do.

Dont listen to the carebears.. Everyone on PTS is loving the 100% loss and the layout of IC so far. We just need a little bit more of the Rewards to be better.


PLEASE FIX DARK CLOAK.. . ITS STILL NOT WORKING

While I adore what I've seen so far of the new content (the whole PvP guild is hella excited!) there seems to be something slightly off about the TV Stone system as it stands. My guild spends 90% of its time looking for good fights (100% in Vanilla Cyro), with some light PvE nonsense for funsies since it's literally right there, but I feel this puts us at a huge disadvantage for the itemization race for a couple reasons. For one, we're not looking to outzerg anyone and win All The Stones safely since that doesn't lead to fun fights, and it kind of puts us behind the PvP guilds that will be doing that.

Second, and relatedly, we tend to be fighting for a really long time with no break to deposit, and thus are especially vulnerable to said zerging tactics, and with a higher penalty. The way the fights were evolving last night, we tended to be fighting the same small groups (4-8) with our small group (4-6, with up to two ungrouped hangers-on). This was actually incredibly desirable, because we got to test a lot of aspects of combat very quickly and there was a constant stream of violence. Bars were fluctuating for hours, it was beautiful. In one district, however, while doing this, we got slammed by a group of 16 or so (normally I wouldn't call that a zerg but in this context it was by comparison). We gave a good fight (thanks to the combat changes it actually lasted a good long time) but were ultimately overwhelmed.

Now, losses were actually extremely small, which I think is important to note. I don't believe any of us had more than 300 stones on us at the time of wipe. The way we were fighting, with lots of combat against fresh meat and only a little PvE, we of course wouldn't have much in the way of stones. But that highlights my point best. For over an hour of gameplay, we had little to show for it, and after a hot minute of getting severely outnumbered we only had AP to show for it (which was also pretty low, actually, since folks could jump right back in the fight before they were juicy again).



This all contrasts quite interestingly, however, with when we did a quick bout of almost exclusively PvE. Hundreds of stones in under an hour, and that's just with funning around and exploring, no intentional "grinding" at all. Myself and one other decided to head back through the sewers to deposit what we'd gained and get back to the PvP. We took a very wrong turn. We wound up in the EP section of the sewers (these things are huge, I didn't realize we each got our own sections!) and found our way pretty much right next to the EP spawn. I knew something was wrong because I remember the flags of your alliance were supposed to get more frequent as you neared your home base, and these were not our flags.

We ran into a group of 4 and nearly had a heart attack, but got on our big-kid boots and ran in to fight. We trounced them pretty easily and got some decent stonage out of it, so I assume they were PvE-focused types trying to find a good TV farm spot. My best advice for them is "not there". They came back to try to reclaim their lost (and our stockpiled) stones, but we were able to wipe them again. Focusing again on our mission of returning to base, I realized I had a quest back in base camp, set it as my active, and figured out I could just follow the quest markers into all the appropriate doors until we finally got the right ones. We ran off toward our goal.

It was a long run. We ended up going through all 3 or however many EP sewer districts, through the central hub with the enormous portals, fighting our way through daedra and avoiding the giant mega-bosses, and finally up through the AD sewer works, about 900 TV stones richer each. It was so incredibly thrilling to have survived it all and make it back safely.



So at the end of it all, I'm caught on how to feel about the TV system as-is. You're prone to catastrophic losses at the hands of overwhelming numbers, or if you're dramatically outclassed because you don't know how PvP works yet. On the other hand, it's remarkably fun to have a bunch in your pack and make it back to your base safely. I think I might be OK with the system as it stands in the long run, since I really don't know how exploitable zerging or targetting known PvEers will be, but if you want to err on the side of caution, reducing it to 50% losses or thereabouts seems like a decent compromise to me. It still balances risk-reward nicely, especially when you're taking higher risks since gains are linear after a certain threshold (x3) but losses would still scale proportionally. I think it would keep the PvEers coming back without annoying the PvPers and gankers too much for hurting their Srs Gainz.