PvE Tanking Future. - DO NOT GET RID OF STAM REGEN WHILE BLOCKING IN PVE

disrespectfulmonk · July 2015

Well I do love tanking its the first build I gravitated and somehow I feel like I made a mistake in some ways. I've been looking up good tank builds and I've seen many comments saying tanking isn't really necessary.... and many videos that back that up. Comparing of that with my experience gave me some ideas that might help balance the scales for tanks more.

There are other ideas I'm trying to hash out but this is the one I have right now. Since there's not a aggro table an enemy seems to behave based on how much damage is dealt or healed. Which means it can be difficult for some tanks to get control of multiple enemies or your damage dealers hit really hard. My idea is a passive trade in the one hand and shield category this trait will create a special kind of presence that through game scripting will apply a multiplied version of the base damage dealt to the target, either through the one hand and shield skills specifically or through all damage dealt. This doesn't necessarily have to be a passive trait they could make changes to the current presents buff or just make this in addition. This will give the low damage set of the tank the capability of getting the attention of certain enemies for small periods of time

Plaid13ub17_ESO · July 2015

The only people all for this change are pvp players and players that do not play tanks. The ones that claim they do play tanks are just not telling the truth. They say they tank but dont know how basic tanking works dont understand what tanks do. If they play tanks at all they are so bad at it they cant be considered tank players.

I am all for making tanking more interesting. But making it so tanks can do less attacks block less often and forcing them to do nothing but manage stamina isnt interesting its terrible.

Tanking as well as every other role needs to be balanced around having very few champ points. If new players that just hit their first max level toon cant do a decent job at it then it is broken.. So they wont have huge bonuses to defense and regens and cost reduction stuff. They wont have lots of extra stats from champ levels.

Punishing a tank for doing its job and holding agro and mitigating that damage by blocking is like punishing a healer for healing or a dps for doing damage. The only people that would disagree with this are players that pvp and are annoyed at tanks having good defense. So they get all upset they cant kill tanks and want to see them nerfed hard. That is it there is no other reason at all. And yes i believe the devs who thought this was a good idea are part of that problem.

If they played tanks in pvp true tanks i mean not just dps builds in heavy armor with a shield then they would have thought hey to make tanks more interesting lets give them a pvp role. Not lets nerf them even more. As it stands true tank builds have almost nothing to do in pvp. Yes they can carry a scroll once in a while but that is it. They can lead a charge but once people realize they are a tank build doing VERY little damage they will get ignored until all the dps and healers are dead.

Personofsecrets · July 2015

At this point I invite anyone who is wondering what in the world Attorneyatlawl and I are talking about to read through our comments which start on page 22.

Post #639

Attorney approves of the following comment “I’m very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically”

Post #651

I write that how stamina regeneration ticks work will cause there to be not strategy when timing blocks, but wild chance.

Post #701

Attorney writes in response to me that the best tanks dot no, nor ever have, continuously blocked. Attorney also writes that heavy and light attacks leading to ultimate generation is a reason that players shouldn’t be continuously blocking.

Post #715

Attorney writes a response to my conversation thread with DDuke. I’m unsure what words of mine they are referencing. They say that I have a bunch of conflicting views and that most of the players in the game agree with them about tanking.

Post #719

I write that I can’t believe what attorney says because of their comments about ultimate generation while tanking and the idea that the best players aren’t continuously blocking.

Post #720

Attorney says that I am putting words in others mouths. They say that players don’t have to continuously hold down block. They write that most players they have talked to don’t feel the change will be impactful. They write that tanking isn’t compelling gameplay because of the aggro system and the ignoring of mechanics.

Post #727

I ask Attorney what the point of their previous post is.

Post #728

I say that Attorney may have accused me of putting words in others mouths, but until they point out what those words were, making such a statement isn’t helpful.

Post #735

I talk again about how the regeneration tick mechanic means the upcoming change isn’t about becoming more skilled. I also introduce that factors outside of the game could exasperate the nerf.

Post #737

Zomnomnombie questions Attorneys sources on tanking. Zom writes about why continuously holding block currently works even though they don’t disagree with the stamina regeneration nerf.

Post #741

Attorney writes to Zom that the discussion isn’t about what tanks do or don’t do despite my (alleged) attempts at derailing the thread. Attorney writes that continuously blocking is easy, but not needed. They then respond to me saying that how weaving attacks between blocks is possible. They say that I insist that using skills, attacks, or timing blocks while blocking isn’t possible. They say that tanking is easy.

Post #743

I respond to Attorney saying that their opinion is faulty due to their comments on how the best tanks play and how ultimate generations works for tanks. I bring up the issue of stamina regeneration ticks again. I point out the reasons that I find Attorney’s argumentation to fail.

Post #748

Attorney says that I didn’t properly contextualize their words. They write about how different players do different things and that doesn’t have to do with what is possible in the game. They say that objective facts prove the stamina regeneration nerf to not be a big deal. Attorney then says that I have failed to answer a question of theirs about ultimate generation because I biased toward proving my narrative. They say that I have waffled back and forth on my opinion of what tanks can do and that I disregard context when posting. They again say that I haven’t brought up any reasons that tanking will be difficult. They discuss Zom post and then asks to get back on topic opposed to making character attacks. They say that there is a need to attack in order to get the basic ultimate generation buff. They say that I failed to answer their question about my stance on how I feel tanks, including myself, will be affected by the change. Attorney then writes that I have contradicted myself somehow. They say that I tank while ignoring basic game mechanics. Finally they discuss ways that tanks can balance stamina.

Avenias · July 2015

Plaid13ub17_ESO wrote: »

The only people all for this change are pvp players and players that do not play tanks. The ones that claim they do play tanks are just not telling the truth. They say they tank but dont know how basic tanking works dont understand what tanks do. If they play tanks at all they are so bad at it they cant be considered tank players.

I am all for making tanking more interesting. But making it so tanks can do less attacks block less often and forcing them to do nothing but manage stamina isnt interesting its terrible.

Tanking as well as every other role needs to be balanced around having very few champ points. If new players that just hit their first max level toon cant do a decent job at it then it is broken.. So they wont have huge bonuses to defense and regens and cost reduction stuff. They wont have lots of extra stats from champ levels.

Punishing a tank for doing its job and holding agro and mitigating that damage by blocking is like punishing a healer for healing or a dps for doing damage. The only people that would disagree with this are players that pvp and are annoyed at tanks having good defense. So they get all upset they cant kill tanks and want to see them nerfed hard. That is it there is no other reason at all. And yes i believe the devs who thought this was a good idea are part of that problem.

If they played tanks in pvp true tanks i mean not just dps builds in heavy armor with a shield then they would have thought hey to make tanks more interesting lets give them a pvp role. Not lets nerf them even more. As it stands true tank builds have almost nothing to do in pvp. Yes they can carry a scroll once in a while but that is it. They can lead a charge but once people realize they are a tank build doing VERY little damage they will get ignored until all the dps and healers are dead.

Agreed, this game has terrible tanking mechanics, when i first started playing the game as a tank, i was shocked to see so many limitations in place, taunting limit, single target taunt only, super fast stamina burn, running out of stamina to perform skills etc. Frustration kept building up to the point i went *** this ***, i am done with this toon. After that i started doing some research on various effcient way to tanking dungeons and eventually came to my current build, which is basically cut from different builds and pasted together to fit exactly my play style. After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo. Im getting more efficient at doing my job everyday and cant wait for stronger gears when i lvl up more. I doubt many people will even have half the patience to actually fine tune their tanks in this game due to the massive limitations.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

He's referring to your user ID on the forums, which is 4,895,947 I imagine . EDIT: I may have been mistaken myself as to you being the person complaining specifically, because the conversation I was thinking of around a month ago was you and Olderpete going on for a very long while about nirn in general making your hits do no damage. I just remember you two earned a place of the... probably five? Maybe six? @ names that I have ignored since launch with that session. *Shrug*

I'm not sure if you are trolling me, if you're "special", or if you're simply INSANE.

I don't attack with magic. I don't play a sorc. I don't use frags. Therefor I would not, and have not, ever complained about Nirn.

I don't know who Olderpete is. I've never heard of him.

As for ignoring. I ignored you when I had the GREAT misfortune of running a pledge with you where you would rather talk at length about your plans to "Break NB" by creating some epic build to prove how OP it was, than to actually begin the dungeon. You would never port in. Once in, the problems continued, from your general attitude to your game play.

My favorite part was when you ran ahead of the group, went Yolo into a big group of mobs, did 1 giant attack...DIED...and then posted some 30k DPS or something for us all to awe over.....when you killed nothing. lmao. Just suicided while doing an attack.

It was at the end of that dungeon run that I...ignored...you.

Then I had the great misfortune of getting into a trial group where you were in teamspeak. Sweet marry, you never even knew it was me.....never interacted with me at all.......but hearing you talk to the other players was brutal enough.

It was 10 minutes into AA that I......muted....you.

BUT POINT OF FACT: I have had you ignored in-game for MANY MONTHS, so it's literally impossible that you read this supposed rant of mine about Nirn. Aside from the fact that I haven't been in Haderus in 3 months. Aside from the fact I have never PvP'd with a Sorcerer. Aside from the fact I don't use Crstyal Shards........It's literally impossible for you to have read any comment of mine in-game because I've been formally ignoring you for several months.

disrespectfulmonk · July 2015

I think another thing I've been seeing is the damage matrix for this game is really high for the enemies you encounter in pve. I think some new status ailment and ability traits for bosses could help to break up the super aoe circles. Maybe some abilities that deal additional damage based on how many players are within the effected area, temporary heal nullification, abilities that cancel and temporary block uses of ultimates. I feel this might do a fine job of breaking up the damage groups a little bit and encouraging the user if good tanks.

disrespectfulmonk · July 2015

Another thought is to take all those passives that increase the amount of damage that you can block and apply them to the damage dealt by the shield and maybe your one handed weapon as well

trimsic_ESO · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

This. Time your blocks rather than tape down the key. Also confirmed with some tanks that run regularly that the Manti's autoattacks are indeed very slow on the swing timers and only will hit a proper tank build for 8-9k... it's just the specials (also a low swing speed) that hurt if you miss blocking, and those are as well-telegraphed as they look . Just like in PVP you should only be blocking selectively/timing when, anyways... that just shifts it to PVE as well. I think it's a fix, frankly, for both just as much as eachother.

People with a stamina build have access to a very limited set of defensive abilities to mitigate incoming damage. Most of what they can access to are part of the core game mechanics, such as blocking and dodging. There is almost no defensive weapon skills, thus requiring people who tank to use their class skills, which use magicka. This is the reason why so many DKs are tanking with 5 pieces of heavy and 2 LA, and use their stamina to mainly block and taunt. This is the reason why, in some extents you are right when you agree that blocking shall be used strategically: doing so does not impact them.

However, you should also consider the players with a stamina build. Remember, they have a limited access to defensive skills, because they can use only a limited amount of magicka. With the next update, blocking and dodging, their two main defensive skills will get nerf. This is a serious issue for the stamina players, and will push them to abandon their build and embrace a magicka build instead. Is this what we want? An Elder Magicka Online game? I don't because I wish a game with a great build diversity so that everybody can choose a build that corresponds to their play style.

Just curious @Attorneyatlawl : do you play a pure stamina build (not an NB one I mean) ?

BuggeX · July 2015

trimsic_ESO wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

I'm very much looking forward to this change with block. Block should be something used strategically.

This. Time your blocks rather than tape down the key. Also confirmed with some tanks that run regularly that the Manti's autoattacks are indeed very slow on the swing timers and only will hit a proper tank build for 8-9k... it's just the specials (also a low swing speed) that hurt if you miss blocking, and those are as well-telegraphed as they look . Just like in PVP you should only be blocking selectively/timing when, anyways... that just shifts it to PVE as well. I think it's a fix, frankly, for both just as much as eachother.

People with a stamina build have access to a very limited set of defensive abilities to mitigate incoming damage. Most of what they can access to are part of the core game mechanics, such as blocking and dodging. There is almost no defensive weapon skills, thus requiring people who tank to use their class skills, which use magicka. This is the reason why so many DKs are tanking with 5 pieces of heavy and 2 LA, and use their stamina to mainly block and taunt. This is the reason why, in some extents you are right when you agree that blocking shall be used strategically: doing so does not impact them.

However, you should also consider the players with a stamina build. Remember, they have a limited access to defensive skills, because they can use only a limited amount of magicka. With the next update, blocking and dodging, their two main defensive skills will get nerf. This is a serious issue for the stamina players, and will push them to abandon their build and embrace a magicka build instead. Is this what we want? An Elder Magicka Online game? I don't because I wish a game with a great build diversity so that everybody can choose a build that corresponds to their play style.

There are so many Stamina based Skills to mitigate Dmg, well for DK this arent Class Skills, but public skills.

Absorb Magick, rly nice skill to heal urself
Vigor
rally if you want to use 2h for second bar
ring of preservation
bone shild
evasion

olemanwinter · July 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

EDIT: The above quote is not by Psychobunni. I don't know how it got attributed to him. These forums are a freaking nightmare.

BuggeX · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

+1

would like to see someone soloing vCOH

DDuke · July 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Wow @DDuke , I am really impressed by how you can flip the script about who is all knowing and who isn't. It is almost as if when someone points out why a previous claim of yours is doubtful that you switch to using a totally different argument.

>Calls anti-nerfers whiners
>Gets called out for making silly claims about how completing veteran dungeons with a roll dodging build is somehow related to tanking being boring.
>Claims I'm not a game dev with the implication that I therefore can't be insightful about the stamina regeneration nerf.
>non-eso game dev shows up with disapproval about the stamina-regen nerf
>Creates the framing that only an eso dev can be insightful
>Gets told to recall the time that they agreed how ESO developers have done plenty of silly stuff in the past
>Changes subject back to being about me

That is a pretty neat trick that you are able to do.

I'm calling "anti-nerfers" whiners, because that's what they tend to be.
Roll dodge nerfs were brought up, because they are equally changing the survivability & power level of another playstyle, which isn't QQing on the forums (take note) and accept that this is ultimately a good thing.
You can't be insightful about the stamina regeneration nerf, because you know very little of it & have never seen it in practice. I have full confidence that the developers of this game know better how to balance it than some disgruntled forum dweller that is making assumptions out of ignorance*. They are not making changes to purposefully make the game worse (believe it or not).
ESO Devs have done plenty of silly stuff in the past, they've also done a lot of good stuff.

Here's a little story: I was pretty much in your shoes back in October 2014, when ZOS decided to nerf stealth damage. Back in those days, you really depended on that damage as a stamina build to take down the permablocking 24/7 ulti people, and after the nerf game was nigh unplayable for a while (I quit for 3 months due to this).

However, after they removed soft caps I've begun to realize how necessary this change was in the long run.
Imagine stamina builds dealing 50% more damage from stealth right now.

The difference here is that I took time to test these changes in PTS (they actually added the stealth damage nerf to a later PTS build, it wasn't in on the initial one) and delivered feedback based on that, not based on ignorance & assumptions.
The thread is not about you, despite your efforts. I am simply pointing out the obvious fact that you do not know how these changes will turn out (nor do I). The only ones who can currently even make a decent estimate are the ones who have tested it & know the full extent of incoming changes and how they interact with each other, the developers. Anyone else is operating with lack of knowledge, or in other words, being ignorant. If you still can't grasp this fact, I can't help you.

DDuke · July 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

+1

would like to see someone soloing vCOH

Impossible, due to the grab mechanic of last boss after 35%, which will kill you (no matter how much you roll dodge or block).

@olemanwinter
Doable:

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points)
Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)
Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)
VDSA (Here's the last boss)

In theory (from easiest to hardest):

Spindleclutch - you need enough DPS to outDPS the health drain mechanic of last boss, or kill the sacrifices fast
CoA - if you can DPS the last boss fast enough alone, or survive standing in the lava
Grotto - if you manage to bug the chains of first boss and make them disappear immediately, I've seen this happen but don't know how to replicate it
Sewers - shouldn't be possible due to the chain mechanic the first boss does that requires interaction with the two statues. But who knows, maybe with 3,6k CPs you can DPS it down fast enough.

The reason you don't see that many videos pop up anymore is because these aren't really such impressive "feats" anymore (apart from the VDSA one, which no one had done before). Also, people are busy grinding goblins

Also @olemanwinter, I could purchase & equip some stam regen gear & easily solo some of these vet dungeons, but why would I?
There's no rewards, the xp is bad, and it's not really that impressive considering I know around 7-8 people who have done the same.

My time is much better spent grinding goblins.

joshisanonymous · July 2015

If you listen to what they said on ESO Live, the change isn't just about getting rid of perma-blocking in PvP, it's about making tanking more interactive in PvE. They don't want a game where all you have to do is hold one button while mashing another before moving on to the next room, which is how quite a bit of group PvE plays right now.

BuggeX · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

+1

would like to see someone soloing vCOH

Impossible, due to the grab mechanic of last boss after 35%, which will kill you (no matter how much you roll dodge or block).

i know, it was more ironic

DDuke wrote: »

Doable:

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points)
Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)
Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)
VDSA (Here's the last boss)

In theory (from easiest to hardest):

Spindleclutch - you need enough DPS to outDPS the health drain mechanic of last boss, or kill the sacrifices fast
CoA - if you can DPS the last boss fast enough alone, or survive standing in the lava
Grotto - if you manage to bug the chains of first boss and make them disappear immediately, I've seen this happen but don't know how to replicate it
Sewers - shouldn't be possible due to the chain mechanic the first boss does that requires interaction with the two statues. But who knows, maybe with 3,6k CPs you can DPS it down fast enough.

The reason you don't see that many videos pop up anymore is because these aren't really such impressive "feats" anymore (apart from the VDSA one, which no one had done before). Also, people are busy grinding goblins

vDSA should never be possible, and this for many reasons.

Stage 2, someone have to interact with torges, in this time he cant cast or rolldoge. so he will wipe.
Stage 7, i dont think someone could survive the dwemers solo
Stage 8, The Daedras will propl just overrun you with all the sacrefices.

Grotto
Also if you can Bug the chains on the first boss, you will not be able to kill Spawn of Mephala cause of the reset if you get pulled throught the portal, like vdsa stage 9

Rinmaethodain · July 2015

" I have full confidence that the developers of this game know better how to balance it than some disgruntled forum dweller that is making assumptions out of ignorance*. They are not making changes to purposefully make the game worse (believe it or not)."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahah

Someone tell me im wrong, but did even ZOS so far declared any kind of change that will help people adapt to "0 stam regen while blocking" or make up for all that lost stamina? Did they?

They are all so occupied with IC right now that they forgot they are about to ruin game for a whole lot of real tanks in eso.

I bet they even forgot themselves they announced such thing and placed it in PTS build and when we get to PTS, REAL tanks (not dps with taunt or sword and board) will realise that nothing changed but only their stamina is gone and ZOS will scratch their heads, why and when did this happen and then run for some bandaid fixes while PVP dps build will pretend everything is ok and its all for tanks own good.

ZOS_MatM · July 2015

Greetings,

We understand that people will disagree from time to time, but we ask that trolling, insulting, and spam are not acceptable behavior on the ESOTU forums. We encourage everyone to take a few minutes and read our Code of Conduct. It outlines the guidelines and expected conduct on our forums. Please keep topics on track and refrain from breaking the rules to avoid possible suspensions.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

DDuke · July 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

+1

would like to see someone soloing vCOH

Impossible, due to the grab mechanic of last boss after 35%, which will kill you (no matter how much you roll dodge or block).

i know, it was more ironic

DDuke wrote: »

Doable:

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points)
Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)
Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)
VDSA (Here's the last boss)

In theory (from easiest to hardest):

Spindleclutch - you need enough DPS to outDPS the health drain mechanic of last boss, or kill the sacrifices fast
CoA - if you can DPS the last boss fast enough alone, or survive standing in the lava
Grotto - if you manage to bug the chains of first boss and make them disappear immediately, I've seen this happen but don't know how to replicate it
Sewers - shouldn't be possible due to the chain mechanic the first boss does that requires interaction with the two statues. But who knows, maybe with 3,6k CPs you can DPS it down fast enough.

The reason you don't see that many videos pop up anymore is because these aren't really such impressive "feats" anymore (apart from the VDSA one, which no one had done before). Also, people are busy grinding goblins

vDSA should never be possible, and this for many reasons.

Stage 2, someone have to interact with torges, in this time he cant cast or rolldoge. so he will wipe.
Stage 7, i dont think someone could survive the dwemers solo
Stage 8, The Daedras will propl just overrun you with all the sacrefices.

Grotto
Also if you can Bug the chains on the first boss, you will not be able to kill Spawn of Mephala cause of the reset if you get pulled throught the portal, like vdsa stage 9

You can survive Stage 2 without ever lighting the torch. If I'm not mistaken, the dmg is reduced by spell resistance, meaning Vigor should be enough to outheal it. I might be mistaken of course, but I know people who never bothered to deal with the bonfire, and still finished the stage.

For Stage 7 & 8, these should be doable in my opinion, as you can simply dodge cancel all attacks & slowly steel tornado everything down while kiting them around. On dwemer stage, the undodgeable ice/fire might be problematic though

As for Grotto, that's a very good point I hadn't considered. You could previously avoid the portal altogether by staying far away, but they fixed that a couple patches ago. So it probably isn't possible anymore. Good catch.

BuggeX · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

Could you please post a video of you soloing a Vet Dungeon to completion or a link to any other video showing the same.

Unless you mean a public dungeon in a VR zone?

You're the second person I'm aware of (perhaps more) in this thread that has claimed to be able to do so. The first later withdrew that claim.

A google search for "ESO vet dungeon solo" gave me two youtube results. The first was for someone soloing only the first MINI-BOSS of banished cells...and not the whole dungeon. The second was someone clearing a DELVE solo.

A search in youtube was no better. But maybe I'm missing it somehow.

If you, or anyone else making these claims, could actually post a link to a verifiable source of someone completing a vet dungeon solo....that'd be great.

+1

would like to see someone soloing vCOH

Impossible, due to the grab mechanic of last boss after 35%, which will kill you (no matter how much you roll dodge or block).

i know, it was more ironic

DDuke wrote: »

Doable:

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points)
Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)
Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)
VDSA (Here's the last boss)

In theory (from easiest to hardest):

Spindleclutch - you need enough DPS to outDPS the health drain mechanic of last boss, or kill the sacrifices fast
CoA - if you can DPS the last boss fast enough alone, or survive standing in the lava
Grotto - if you manage to bug the chains of first boss and make them disappear immediately, I've seen this happen but don't know how to replicate it
Sewers - shouldn't be possible due to the chain mechanic the first boss does that requires interaction with the two statues. But who knows, maybe with 3,6k CPs you can DPS it down fast enough.

The reason you don't see that many videos pop up anymore is because these aren't really such impressive "feats" anymore (apart from the VDSA one, which no one had done before). Also, people are busy grinding goblins

vDSA should never be possible, and this for many reasons.

Stage 2, someone have to interact with torges, in this time he cant cast or rolldoge. so he will wipe.
Stage 7, i dont think someone could survive the dwemers solo
Stage 8, The Daedras will propl just overrun you with all the sacrefices.

Grotto
Also if you can Bug the chains on the first boss, you will not be able to kill Spawn of Mephala cause of the reset if you get pulled throught the portal, like vdsa stage 9

You can survive Stage 2 without ever lighting the torch. If I'm not mistaken, the dmg is reduced by spell resistance, meaning Vigor should be enough to outheal it. I might be mistaken of course, but I know people who never bothered to deal with the bonfire, and still finished the stage.

For Stage 7 & 8, these should be doable in my opinion, as you can simply dodge cancel all attacks & slowly steel tornado everything down while kiting them around. On dwemer stage, the undodgeable ice/fire might be problematic though

As for Grotto, that's a very good point I hadn't considered. You could previously avoid the portal altogether by staying far away, but they fixed that a couple patches ago. So it probably isn't possible anymore. Good catch.

Well someone have to try the dwemer stage, dont know if they both cast there *** on you or just one of them random, if both do it, you will be fine.

yea you could minimize the dmg from the ice on the second stage, but you will not have any time to breath, right from the second phase permanet ice

DDemon · July 2015

ZOS_MatM wrote: »

Greetings,

We understand that people will disagree from time to time, but we ask that trolling, insulting, and spam are not acceptable behavior on the ESOTU forums. We encourage everyone to take a few minutes and read our Code of Conduct. It outlines the guidelines and expected conduct on our forums. Please keep topics on track and refrain from breaking the rules to avoid possible suspensions.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/60843/community-rules

I saw the big Z next to the post and clicked on hoping to see something like: 'We're looking into it' or 'We're taking player feedback into consideration'. after 26 pages of discussion.

Slightly disappointed.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Now we are getting somewhere:

DDuke wrote: »

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points))

Great video, but I'm not sure it proves what you think it does. You have a non-tank V12 somehow scaled to V9 doing in back in...1.4?

DDuke wrote: »

Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)

This one is even worse. VR14 scaled down to VR4. Also has zero to do with tanking.

DDuke wrote: »

Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)

This one is legit. Scaled to VR12. I'm a little perplexed why there was no adds showing up with Bogden in his video though.

DDuke wrote: »

VDSA (Here's the last boss)

That guy had 750 Champion points at the time. And that's a very simple part of DSA. It's actually easier than many of the stages leading up to it imho. This was impressive as hell, but it's a very specific instance and I don't think it belongs in the list.

BUT 750 Champion points! Are we supposed to nerf the abilities people use in this game based on the performance of someone with 300% as many champion points as probably 95% of the community?

_______________________________________________________________________

THANKS for posting those links. It sheds some light on what everyone has been talking about.

However, I didn't see anything in any of those videos that implied tanking needed to be modified. I saw an overpowered Sap Essence skill which has already been heavily nerfed after some of those videos. But that has no association with group mechanics.

I still find the whole argument lacking.

I don't think we should nerf tanking because NBs used to use Sap Essence in 2014 during 1.4 before it was nerfed to solo a couple dungeons.

(Side note)....I still wish everyone who keeps claiming "I can solo dungeons (presumably now)" would actually post videos of themselves soloing those dungeons, post 1.5

I mean you asked,
"

DDuke wrote: »

I could purchase & equip some stam regen gear & easily solo some of these vet dungeons, but why would I?

I can't speak for you, but I would do it so I'm not just some guy on the internet going "I Can do this...and I can do that....And I'm very good at this....and I can also do that".....ya know...WITHOUT actually ever doing any of it :-/

Enodoc · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Now we are getting somewhere:

DDuke wrote: »

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points))

Great video, but I'm not sure it proves what you think it does. You have a non-tank V12 somehow scaled to V9 doing in back in...1.4?

DDuke wrote: »

Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)

This one is even worse. VR14 scaled down to VR4. Also has zero to do with tanking.

[...]
(Side note)....I still wish everyone who keeps claiming "I can solo dungeons (presumably now)" would actually post videos of themselves soloing those dungeons, post 1.5

You are correct with your concerns in that regard. It's not that the dungeons in those videos were scaled down to VR9/VR4 -- that was just the level of the dungeon. Those videos were pre- dungeon scaling, when every dungeon had a set level, and are therefore void. A VR12 entering a dungeon now will not face VR9 mobs.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

You are correct with your concerns in that regard. It's not that the dungeons in those videos were scaled down to VR9/VR4 -- that was just the level of the dungeon. Those videos were pre- dungeon scaling, when every dungeon had a set level, and are therefore void. A VR12 entering a dungeon now will not face VR9 mobs.

That's right. Thank you for refreshing my memory.

So, in my opinion, that's even more reason why everything other than the Bogden video is invalid in the context of this discussion.

DDuke · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Now we are getting somewhere:

DDuke wrote: »

Darkshade (found a video from last September... it's even easier now with infinite regens & Champion Points))

Great video, but I'm not sure it proves what you think it does. You have a non-tank V12 somehow scaled to V9 doing in back in...1.4?

DDuke wrote: »

Banished Cells (couldn't find a more up to date video, but same as above this is even easier with infinite regens & CPs)

This one is even worse. VR14 scaled down to VR4. Also has zero to do with tanking.

DDuke wrote: »

Elden Hollow (Here's a recent video)

This one is legit. Scaled to VR12. I'm a little perplexed why there was no adds showing up with Bogden in his video though.

DDuke wrote: »

VDSA (Here's the last boss)

That guy had 750 Champion points at the time. And that's a very simple part of DSA. It's actually easier than many of the stages leading up to it imho. This was impressive as hell, but it's a very specific instance and I don't think it belongs in the list.

BUT 750 Champion points! Are we supposed to nerf the abilities people use in this game based on the performance of someone with 300% as many champion points as probably 95% of the community?

_______________________________________________________________________

THANKS for posting those links. It sheds some light on what everyone has been talking about.

However, I didn't see anything in any of those videos that implied tanking needed to be modified. I saw an overpowered Sap Essence skill which has already been heavily nerfed after some of those videos. But that has no association with group mechanics.

I still find the whole argument lacking.

I don't think we should nerf tanking because NBs used to use Sap Essence in 2014 during 1.4 before it was nerfed to solo a couple dungeons.

(Side note)....I still wish everyone who keeps claiming "I can solo dungeons (presumably now)" would actually post videos of themselves soloing those dungeons, post 1.5

I mean you asked,
"

DDuke wrote: »

I could purchase & equip some stam regen gear & easily solo some of these vet dungeons, but why would I?

I can't speak for you, but I would do it so I'm not just some guy on the internet going "I Can do this...and I can do that....And I'm very good at this....and I can also do that".....ya know...WITHOUT actually ever doing any of it :-/

Well, I'm not going to do it and waste my time to make some random internet person believe in me, sorry. I find no fun doing those dungeons even with a group, and I find even less fun soloing them, when all I get out of that is time wasted that could be spent gaining CPs or making new PvP videos.

You are free to take my word on it or not, I'm sure someone gets bored and decides to solo+record one of these *** easy dungeons sooner or later.

Assuming things are impossible because they fall out of your skill/CP range however is ignorant.

Azalin76 · July 2015

Can't tanks just use a stamina potion to get back stamina?

olemanwinter · July 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Well, I'm not going to do it and waste my time to make some random internet person believe in me, sorry.

Wow, I wasted a lot of time on you, your links, and your argument for you to just come back with that.

Every time I try to give someone the benefit of the doubt and think maybe they aren't quite as bad as I think they are....they prove my first instinct correct. Ugh.

Do whatever you want. I give zero ****s. Zero.

Start a thread saying you *could* do this or you *could* do that. I don't care. I doubt anyone else even cares.

You're not even saying you DID them and asking us to believe you. Just that you *could*. LMAO.

DDuke wrote: »

Assuming things are impossible because they fall out of your skill/CP range however is ignorant.

Assuming you can do things without ever actually doing them is ignorant. Demanding that other people assume the same is arrogant. And I'm being kind.

Buhbye now. Life's to short to continue on with you.

Psychobunni · July 2015

self-snipped.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

You misquoted me somewhere @olemanwinter ...I most certainly did not claim that LOL.

Did I?

Psychobunni wrote: »

After that i tested build vs different monsters and was very satisfied after beating my first vet dungeon solo.

EDIT: This quote was not by Psychobunni. I don't know how it got attributed to him. Someone said it...and I quoted them accurately....it's just not the correct person.

olemanwinter · July 2015

Azalin76 wrote: »

Can't tanks just use a stamina potion to get back stamina?

Let's reduce all health regen by 50%. Can't players just use a health potion to get back health?

Halke · July 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

VDSA (Here's the last boss)

That guy had 750 Champion points at the time. And that's a very simple part of DSA. It's actually easier than many of the stages leading up to it imho. This was impressive as hell, but it's a very specific instance and I don't think it belongs in the list.

BUT 750 Champion points! Are we supposed to nerf the abilities people use in this game based on the performance of someone with 300% as many champion points as probably 95% of the community?

Fun side note in case you don't know the backstory for that run Oleman, but Vash and a friend did vDSA up to that point with just two people. Pretty awesome ^.^

But here is the thing, and maybe this is just me, but I think feats like this speak a lot more to the fact that DPS is absurdly high than that tanking isn't engaging enough. Maybe tanking would be more a challenge if we didn't skip 90% of the mechanics in the game because our DPS is wrecking things so quickly.