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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Update on Cyrodiil Performance
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NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_AlanG
admin
We have an official thread on this topic here. We're going to lock this one, and everyone is welcome to continue this over there.
That was really response from a mod in another thread on the topic.
If this is the official thread discussion about the topic, it should recieve a sticky at the top of the forum. It would stop the 100 posts everyday on the subject.0 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »ZOS_AlanG
admin
We have an official thread on this topic here. We're going to lock this one, and everyone is welcome to continue this over there.
That was really response from a mod in another thread on the topic.
If this is the official thread discussion about the topic, it should recieve a sticky at the top of the forum. It would stop the 100 posts everyday on the subject.
Except that putting a sticky on top of the general forum would also bring attention to the fact that PvP is irreparably broken in this game and ZOS has admitted that PvP lags when played as designed.
The current moderation strategy is to close all discussion of PvP performance and keep discussion of it OFF of the main forums at all costs. This includes closing threads for the slightest infraction of any of the CoC rules.
Instead, we are supposed to conduct our discussion of this topic, that is SO CRUCIAL and central to the game's longevity, in the developer discussion forum, which is hidden in an unlit basement, in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'.
This statement appears on boldly on the ESO website Here: http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/game-guide/the-alliance-war:
[Emphasis Added]Featuring three-sided Player vs. Player (PvP) gameplay, The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited supports hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil.Seize, hold, and control the resources of massive strongholds. Utilize massive siege weapons to crumble fortress walls and smash through fortified gates. Conquer the Imperial City, and your alliance's top player could even be crowned Emperor!
Here is an excerpt from the update in this post.
[Emphasis added] You can read the whole response at the link provided.Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time.
Basically his response is that the game lags because it features "hundreds of players on screen at once in an open world fight for control of Cyrodiil." So in essence, the game lags when it is played the way it was designed to be played.
So I suggest they put a sticky on the main forums and in the alliance war section of the website and a disclaimer in every console avertisement:
Crippling lag is a natural consequence of AvA combat. It's not a bug, its a feature. Just like animation canceling. Expect it.
Note: Here is an open discussion of PvP performance that is in the general forums and hasn't been censored yet. Do NOT bump (by posting "bump" it or violate the CoCin that thread in any way as that will give ammunition for closure but constructively contributing in an open thread is not against the CoC in anyway. Constructive contribution in this already open thread in the general forums would be a good way to keep high visibility on this issue. You can find the open thread here.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1800927/#Comment_1800927Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on May 14, 2015 3:54AM4 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »ZOS_AlanG
admin
We have an official thread on this topic here. We're going to lock this one, and everyone is welcome to continue this over there.
That was really response from a mod in another thread on the topic.
If this is the official thread discussion about the topic, it should recieve a sticky at the top of the forum. It would stop the 100 posts everyday on the subject.
There are so many posts in general that are repeats yet those are not closed and directed towards one that is in another forum. IMHO, Mods should be consistent with that, otherwise it specifically shows as deliberate topic selection and targeting for gagging.Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"2 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭NadiusMaximus wrote: »ZOS_AlanG
admin
We have an official thread on this topic here. We're going to lock this one, and everyone is welcome to continue this over there.
That was really response from a mod in another thread on the topic.
If this is the official thread discussion about the topic, it should recieve a sticky at the top of the forum. It would stop the 100 posts everyday on the subject.
Or maybe having one of the developers actually bother to share an update on the matter.
Closing threads and halting all communication on the matter just shows how much they really don't care....4 -
ThornJagger✭✭✭Would like to see a issue where Templar healers stay in combat after its over and cannot mount. Makes us easy gank pray and late for the next battle.I never loose... I either win or learn.
Vae Victis forever0 -
Robbmrp✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hello @ZOS_PaulSage,
Would it be possible to get an update on where things are at with Cyrodil lag? The lag is continuing to spill over into PVE as well.
Thank you for your time.NA Server - Kildair1 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭[snip]
We have been waiting for over a year for them to 'get there' and have dealt with major bug after major bug after major bug. If you aren't a PvPer just don't even bother replying. If your precious PvE got as bad as PvP sometimes I am sure you would be just as annoyed and would come looking for answers. A lot of us have been subscribed to this game for a year plus, we have a right to ask when this will be sorted.
Don't question my patience. Any PvPer that has lasted this long has the patience of a saint.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 2, 2024 11:32AMLastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena6 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some of you PvP enthusiasts are like addicts suffering withdrawal symptoms.
Is it done yet? Is it done yet? Is it done yet? Is it done yet?
When you take your car in to the shop do you hover and stand right next to the mechanic all day?
Finding complex software bugs and performance issues like this takes some time to...
1. Gather measurements
2. Identify trouble areas
3. Write new code for area
4. QA new code for bugs
5. go back to #1 until performance is acceptable
If you cannot live without your precious PvP performing flawlessly, maybe you should take a short vacation and play something else for a few months.
Mellow. Patience. They'll get there.
We have been waiting for over a year for them to 'get there' and have dealt with major bug after major bug after major bug. If you aren't a PvPer just don't even bother replying. If your precious PvE got as bad as PvP sometimes I am sure you would be just as annoyed and would come looking for answers. A lot of us have been subscribed to this game for a year plus, we have a right to ask when this will be sorted.
I haven't played the game for 3 weeks. I sit here waiting for a post that says cyrodiil is fully functional and all the bugs and exploits and lag are fixed. I will probably stop the subs in week 4. No point flogging a dead horse. Time for me to man up and face the obvious
Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
JTorus✭✭✭✭[snip]
In all fairness you're misrepresenting the overall tone of those 'PvP enthusiasts'. While lots of us are frustrated with one varying issue or another, the demands for an immediate fix are far fewer than requests for a legitimate update. In part ZOS has themselves to blame for this attitude; as with beta and the onset of the game, at least initially, they were very interactive with their customer base. Lately ZOS has withdrawn from that approach, to the rest of us, it appears as abandonment. Frustrating.
What most of us want is a status reply. Some mention of internal testing, some idea of what they're doing, what they suspect the issues to be. At this point the issue been discussed enough (to death) to the likely degree of the actual problem having been correctly theorized by one of us enthusiasts. However, ZOS's silence on the matter is somewhat foreboding, no surprise that the community response to it is sometimes... passionate.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 2, 2024 11:33AM3 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭[snip]
No ZOS activity in this thread since March 13th. Dollars to donuts says the allocated zots were spent without success, and no one wants to be the one to admit to the PVP community that developer attention is now all on console release.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 2, 2024 11:33AM0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭What is ZoS going to do when the console flops because the console players see how bad PvP is and all the other bugs?2 -
stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭We don't know what the console versions will be like. Different server architecture, less security problems. PvP might work as advertised on PS4 and XBone. Or, it might be the same imbalanced bug-infested lagfest we have on PC/Mac. We'll have to wait and see.2 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »We don't know what the console versions will be like. Different server architecture, less security problems. PvP might work as advertised on PS4 and XBone. Or, it might be the same imbalanced bug-infested lagfest we have on PC/Mac. We'll have to wait and see.
Different server architecture? Where are you getting that?
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stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sorry, I was unclear. Different software architecture for the console servers. They don't need any countermeasures against hacked clients, so lots of computations that have now been moved to the server on the PC platform can remain on the client side for consoles without exposing the game to exploitation by cheaters. The server performance might possibly be just fine. We'll see at launch, but at least the problems probably won't be identical to the PC/Mac version.Different server architecture? Where are you getting that?
(Edit: spelling)Edited by stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO on May 24, 2015 10:02PM2 -
Katsibrokos✭✭✭
It could be really great having some info by a Dev about Cyrodiil issues...
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on June 2, 2024 11:35AMWood Elf Templar0 -
ThornJagger✭✭✭You notice as soon as they announced the console versions, they stopped all development and new content we were promised. Now Nirnhoned needs to be fixed as well.... I want new soloable pve areas to be added as they so show cased. What really ticks me off ( and others) is we stuck with them and paid the sub and now we're shafted....I never loose... I either win or learn.
Vae Victis forever3 -
Soarin'✭✭I work in games industry QA and know that testing on the internal and live servers never yields the same results, that being said, I have never seen a performance issue go unfixed in a time frame over 3 months.
There is so much data that can be collected by their server engineers there really is not much of an excuse. My guess is that development time has not been allocated to this area given the console release. I hope that following deployment today and the undoubtedly poor feedback from the console community there is going to be a very serious meeting with the lead team and the producers.
I expect the number of issues from porting to console platform will be quite high in the first 2 months and the internal QA team is going to be swamped with "must fix" issues. Performance in Cyrodiil along with faults in core game design like animation cancelling which is crippling the PVP community is going to take a back seat. I highly doubt we will see fixes any time soon, with the cost of publishing patches on each console platform now being calculated by Zenimax release management I expect we will see fewer patches through the next year.2 -
defilade__ESO✭✭✭ZOS_PaulSage wrote: »Hello everyone,
Our Cyrodiil performance is something we are very aware of. Performance drags when there are numerous players in the same place at the same time. This is why performance in Cyrodiil is fine for much of the day, but gets worse during more popular times. We are currently investigating ways in which we can reduce the spike of performance loss. We added in some features for Update 6 which we hoped would help, but ultimately did not. This is not a situation where we can just add more hardware. Player population in a given area hurts the performance and the more people that are in one area, the more performance is going to be hurt.
Actively, we are looking at changing the behavior of the players to remove incentives for large groups to stay in the same area. We want to do this by providing larger incentives for Alliances to split up and take on multiple-challenges in Cyrodiil. We’ll continue to work on this. We are also asked by players if there is anything they can do to help. In this situation, the best thing you can do is split off to different objectives when you notice performance going down. Cyrodiil is a big place with lots of different things to do. And thank you for asking.
Reduce group size to 12, or reduce server population sizes, and have more campaigns, if you think too many people are in the same area.
You need to fix your code or improve your blasted servers, don't blame players fro getting together to take a and defend a keep.
BTW, when there is server lag, it is not just for players in a large group, You can be in the middle of nowhere, away from any battles at all and still have the same 2k ping rate.Edited by defilade__ESO on June 12, 2015 11:43PM0 -
defilade__ESO✭✭✭The new meteor damage spam, is making the lag that we also know from bomb groups, this time players dont need be all toghether to spam meteors, there is always that unplayable lag when meteor spam begins, just like bomb groups skill spaming. 10vs 10 spaming this is enought to make lag unplayable so dont start lock sonner even more the campaigns plz.
It's when a large group of people do something like spam AoEs until they build lag, and then it seems they spam their meteor skill, endlessly. Certain groups have figured out how to purposely lag out the servers, so the assaulting faction of a keep cannot put down any siege.0 -
defilade__ESO✭✭✭I work in games industry QA and know that testing on the internal and live servers never yields the same results, that being said, I have never seen a performance issue go unfixed in a time frame over 3 months.
There is so much data that can be collected by their server engineers there really is not much of an excuse. My guess is that development time has not been allocated to this area given the console release. I hope that following deployment today and the undoubtedly poor feedback from the console community there is going to be a very serious meeting with the lead team and the producers.
I expect the number of issues from porting to console platform will be quite high in the first 2 months and the internal QA team is going to be swamped with "must fix" issues. Performance in Cyrodiil along with faults in core game design like animation cancelling which is crippling the PVP community is going to take a back seat. I highly doubt we will see fixes any time soon, with the cost of publishing patches on each console platform now being calculated by Zenimax release management I expect we will see fewer patches through the next year.
Exactly. If players are spamming AoEs or spamming their skills, or spamming the silly PRT SCR button, or they have created an an addon that is doing it. Zenimax should have all that data, it should not be a mystery as to what people are doing to lag the servers.0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭defilade__ESO wrote: »The new meteor damage spam, is making the lag that we also know from bomb groups, this time players dont need be all toghether to spam meteors, there is always that unplayable lag when meteor spam begins, just like bomb groups skill spaming. 10vs 10 spaming this is enought to make lag unplayable so dont start lock sonner even more the campaigns plz.
It's when a large group of people do something like spam AoEs until they build lag, and then it seems they spam their meteor skill, endlessly. Certain groups have figured out how to purposely lag out the servers, so the assaulting faction of a keep cannot put down any siege.
Yep, AD ran into this on Chill the other night.
We had 2 bars, EP and DC were both locked.
Red controlled most of map.. and we were attacking Ash. Although outnumbered, we managed to get the wall to 3,600. Just 2 more ballista shots..
Then the lag hit. We couldn't use or lay down siege for 5+ minutes. And EP started repairing the wall. Once the wall was at 100% the lag magically dissipated...
It's so fantastic that players can control the lag and use it to their advantage. Makes PvP really awesome....0 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭defilade__ESO wrote: »The new meteor damage spam, is making the lag that we also know from bomb groups, this time players dont need be all toghether to spam meteors, there is always that unplayable lag when meteor spam begins, just like bomb groups skill spaming. 10vs 10 spaming this is enought to make lag unplayable so dont start lock sonner even more the campaigns plz.
It's when a large group of people do something like spam AoEs until they build lag, and then it seems they spam their meteor skill, endlessly. Certain groups have figured out how to purposely lag out the servers, so the assaulting faction of a keep cannot put down any siege.
Yep, AD ran into this on Chill the other night.
We had 2 bars, EP and DC were both locked.
Red controlled most of map.. and we were attacking Ash. Although outnumbered, we managed to get the wall to 3,600. Just 2 more ballista shots..
Then the lag hit. We couldn't use or lay down siege for 5+ minutes. And EP started repairing the wall. Once the wall was at 100% the lag magically dissipated...
It's so fantastic that players can control the lag and use it to their advantage. Makes PvP really awesome....
It seems that they have two choices with situations like that. Call it what it is... an exploit... and start punishing players that do it. OR fix the exploit. But it's been months and they've done neither.
*sigh*Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror1 -
Vivecc✭✭✭AllPlayAndNoWork wrote: »ok...
1) Bridges are pretty strategic in any war.......... have them with a flag that they have to hold to keep the enemy from getting to the keep, that keeps it smaller scale and away from the keep... have so that you close a portcullis or gate and they have to break it to move on thru, and they have to hold it.
2) Have more smaller outposts/sentry points dotted near keeps with a flag also
3) Change the layout of the grounds around keeps and the keeps themselves (moats/mountain passes etc) funnel them into small groups so that is the only way to take a keep.
4) Make it so that you have to hold certain locations on the map or around a keep to be able to get to the keep in the 1st place.
you have three resources but they can be ignored with big groups atm.
Atm keeps are far to easy to siege. Make them impenetrable until certain conditions are met (bridge, resources, outposts, sentry points) and they have to be manned by the enemy or the keep gets much much harder to take.
This keeps a lot of players away from each other and adds strategy to the game rather than who zergs/lags the hardest.
Thank you i am here all week, job done.
i think this is probably the easiest - to -do solution to spread out the Player Pop, in addition to increasing the overall size of Cyrodiil. Split the map in 3 parts, with some PoW camps , sentry posts, controlled bridges and so on, that is the controlled area for each alliance ( as in a fresh set map). To advance into the enemy territory , these border- objectives have to be taken - and guarded by Players - give them flags but make em not count or in a marginal number. Make the towns and villages maybe controllable in terms of supply for the armies/keeps (siege merchant sells more/better stuff when he has supply from eg.Bruma)
With more objectives and a increase in map size by same max Pop for a campaign there should be a increase in Performance due to Players have to split up and take care of these objectives.
pc/eu0 -
skii99Soul ShrivenThe Issue is most obviously hardware and code related. The code can be altered to dedicate different parts of Cyrodiil to dedicated hardware. EVE Online handles their mass players in a single System efficiently, but also using a "time-dilation" factor where time slows down within the system if the number of players in the system exceed a certain limit (This I personally think is unnecessarily game-changing). You can also create more campaigns and limit the number of players in each. There are a multitude of things that can be done to mitigate this particular issue, but they're busy rushing on console release instead of mastering/improving the pc/mac release. Good luck though
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