MMORPG.com agrees with me.

Ojustaboo · June 2015

Victus wrote: »

He pretty much glosses over the other perks for subscription, it isn't just Crowns and 10% xp gain. Yeah maybe he doesn't PvP and need the boost to AP, or crafting, or gold. To me its decent perks for someone who is enjoying playing the game.

Of course I took several months off and have not reached VR14 yet so I am still enjoying content. No issue for me.

Each to their own.

I have requested an xp disabler since soon after release, the 10% xp boost would stop me subbing even if nothing else does. Sick of out leveling 1 to 50 on alts.

Gold is so easy to make that I would never pay for a boost.

I pvp most of the time, prefer EU Blackthorn to vet ones though (do have VR14 main)

Sacadon · June 2015

Just read the article... It's not extreme or highly-distorted as I would have expected given all the comments in this thread so far. Instead, it's a very level-headed and reasonable position on ZOS's communication style and why the player chose to stop the sub.

Unfortunately Brian Wheeler is used as the bad-comm example as he has been the perfect example for not keeping in touch with his community. I say unfortunately because I would bet real $ that the lack of comms from him has NOT been solely his call. Nevertheless, as a leader he gets to be held accountable still...

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · June 2015

the article, isn't wrong nor is the OPs point. i wouldn't say the article is that great- lots of redundant paragraphs, but i otherwise agree. people that defend ZOS and ZoS themselves, don't seem to understand that MMO's aren't like consoles where its just a game. MMOs have to be looked at as a game AND a business (so yeah there will be "whiners"). i tend to get the feeling that ZoS seems to think that the game will pay for itself, but that isn't very wise. if they don't also treat it like a business (advertising content, announcing positive changes, and the direction the game is going), they run the risk of losing consumers. with the console versions of elder scrolls, people would buy the single game without an great expectation for content. sure, i still would like to see content for the existing single player games, but i don't have an expectation for it. they don't have that luxury in the MMO market. they can' t expect to make money if they don't put anything out on the market, nor can they support the back-end (customer support, developers, testers) if they don't sustain their cash flow.

the article had a good point, if they don't have a balance or even have a presence now, how will they be able to juggle console/PC later. i understand that it would be hard right now, but to fully commit entire departments for FUTURE (mind you "future" is of major importance) profits, while discarding current tangible profits is why so many businesses fail today. right now they KNOW they could continue a steady cash flow (important for any business) with PC users, but they haven't really put much effort into that side of things for the sake of consoles. consoles would help in balancing costs and i think its a good business decision, but they risk pissing on that good idea, perhaps great idea, by neglecting actual consumers for projected consumers. a bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush after all....

i also take issue that it took this long to cancel the sub lol. they made it pretty clear that the sub was thoroughly useless for now. i canceled a month after B2P went live.... because i was too busy and forgot to cancel before my cut off date lol. i kid, i couldn't care less about what you do with your time or money lol

BigM · June 2015

Enaijo wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Proof?

For what do you need proof? I thought these sites are so important that you read them frequently, don't you? Ok, just one example: http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/06/daybreaks-john-smedley-everquest-next-isnt-vaporware/

For more, try google. Have you proof for what you are saying? I doubt it ...

WAIT, you want me to believe something smed says, I stopped listening to him 10 years ago all he does is twist lies into more lies. Can you please show me more proof other than smed.

granty2008cyb16_ESO · June 2015

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

Sacadon · June 2015

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

the article, isn't wrong nor is the OPs point. i wouldn't say the article is that great- lots of redundant paragraphs, but i otherwise agree. people that defend ZOS and ZoS themselves, don't seem to understand that MMO's aren't like consoles where its just a game. MMOs have to be looked at as a game AND a business (so yeah there will be "whiners"). i tend to get the feeling that ZoS seems to think that the game will pay for itself, but that isn't very wise. if they don't also treat it like a business (advertising content, announcing positive changes, and the direction the game is going), they run the risk of losing consumers. with the console versions of elder scrolls, people would buy the single game without an great expectation for content. sure, i still would like to see content for the existing single player games, but i don't have an expectation for it. they don't have that luxury in the MMO market. they can' t expect to make money if they don't put anything out on the market, nor can they support the back-end (customer support, developers, testers) if they don't sustain their cash flow.

the article had a good point, if they don't have a balance or even have a presence now, how will they be able to juggle console/PC later. i understand that it would be hard right now, but to fully commit entire departments for FUTURE (mind you "future" is of major importance) profits, while discarding current tangible profits is why so many businesses fail today. right now they KNOW they could continue a steady cash flow (important for any business) with PC users, but they haven't really put much effort into that side of things for the sake of consoles. consoles would help in balancing costs and i think its a good business decision, but they risk pissing on that good idea, perhaps great idea, by neglecting actual consumers for projected consumers. a bird in the hand, is worth two in the bush after all....

i also take issue that it took this long to cancel the sub lol. they made it pretty clear that the sub was thoroughly useless for now. i canceled a month after B2P went live.... because i was too busy and forgot to cancel before my cut off date lol. i kid, i couldn't care less about what you do with your time or money lol

All great points... It does seem as though ZOS holds their cards so close to the chest that they end up rolling-the-dice in terms of the player base sticking around (seem). There's only so much Gina, Jessica, Kai etc... can do to offset this. But, speculating that the uppers are so scarred from missing the many major expectations (initial console release, spell crafting (quake con), balance etc...) that they are completely adverse to any information whatsoever going out at this point unless they are certain they can make good on it. In other words, they blew credibility and are trying to rebuild it and not taking any risks. Doesn't mean I like not having the info though.

Raash · June 2015

Donno if the article was that great tho. He didnt even mention that ALL content after lvl 49 is just boring recycled stuff from other alliances journeys between lvls 1-49 and a single zone with some dungeons.
If something he was kissing & cuddling the game a bit to much. *thumbs downb*

BigM · June 2015

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Sacadon · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Ouch! there went our CS designer.

TheDarkShadow · June 2015

I don't think it worth to sub TESO for now either, but I'm still playing and buy crowns now and then to buy mount, pet, cosmetic... if I like what offered to me (unfortunately there aren't many to buy atm). It's not really a disaster for ZOS. Of course they know TESO is not worth paying monthly atm, but they're ok with it for now. People already bought the game, some buy crowns, and a few pay for sub, and that give them enough money to keep up for a while.

Probably because I mostly roleplay and progress very, very slowly, so I'm not running out of things to do yet. When they add more DLCs, I'll consider to sub or just buy the DLCs.

I also happy with this because I only play casually so don't feel like being forced to pay monthly. I have the choice to give ZOS money whenever I like. Seem like most of MMO right now going this way, target on casual players who don't want to sub just to play a few hours/week.

BigM · June 2015

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

I don't think it worth to sub TESO for now either, but I'm still playing and buy crowns now and then to buy mount, pet, cosmetic... if I like what offered to me (unfortunately there aren't many to buy atm). It's not really a disaster for ZOS. Of course they know TESO is not worth paying monthly atm, but they're ok with it for now. People already bought the game, some buy crowns, and a few pay for sub, and that give them enough money to keep up for a while.

Probably because I mostly roleplay and progress very, very slowly, so I'm not running out of things to do yet. When they add more DLCs, I'll consider to sub or just buy the DLCs.

I also happy with this because I only play casually so don't feel like being forced to pay monthly. I have the choice to give ZOS money whenever I like. Seem like most of MMO right now going this way, target on casual players who don't want to sub just to play a few hours/week.

There is no way ZoS is OK with people not paying subs or buying crowns for that matter. Box sales only go so far. Box sales do not only pay for the game itself they pay for a lot of other stuff and believe me it won't go far when you have to pay devs, servers, ect.

Vahrokh · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Isn't it peculiar how two key developers quit their job at a 2014 MMO to join a 2005 MMO? Tells a lot about how confident in ESO they were...

P3ZZL3 · June 2015

It's a vapid report for a site where he's producing an article due to the fact, more than likely, he hasn't done much in the last few months. His last Forum interaction was in February.

Pretty much anyone who has opened up a thread in the last 48 hours could write a better, more substantive article about ESO and it's present challenges and situation.

Psychobunni · June 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Isn't it peculiar how two key developers quit their job at a 2014 MMO to join a 2005 MMO? Tells a lot about how confident in ESO they were...

I was just thinking too bad I don't have a magic 8 ball to tell me if they left by choice, proverbial rats on a sinking ship and all or if it was more ZOS cuts

MCMancub · June 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Isn't it peculiar how two key developers quit their job at a 2014 MMO to join a 2005 MMO? Tells a lot about how confident in ESO they were...

Not really. They have more money to throw at them, so they go. It's that simple. It's rarely about doing a job that's more rewarding or fun, it's about how much money they'll give you.

JD2013 · June 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

WOW (no pun) that is huge.

Isn't it peculiar how two key developers quit their job at a 2014 MMO to join a 2005 MMO? Tells a lot about how confident in ESO they were...

I was just thinking too bad I don't have a magic 8 ball to tell me if they left by choice, proverbial rats on a sinking ship and all or if it was more ZOS cuts

Given that there are vacancies for gameplay programmers and a lead gameplay programmer, I would say they left.

TheDarkShadow · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

There is no way ZoS is OK with people not paying subs or buying crowns for that matter. Box sales only go so far. Box sales do not only pay for the game itself they pay for a lot of other stuff and believe me it won't go far when you have to pay devs, servers, ect.

You missed "for now". TESO dropped subs just 3 months ago. Some people already bought 6 months subs. Some new players buy the game when it drop subs. So for now, ZOS can keep up a few more months by selling the game, crowns and a few subs. A big company sometime sacrifice profit to get more customers. They'll add more DLCs and make more money later.

BigM · June 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

It's a vapid report for a site where he's producing an article due to the fact, more than likely, he hasn't done much in the last few months. His last Forum interaction was in February.

Pretty much anyone who has opened up a thread in the last 48 hours could write a better, more substantive article about ESO and it's present challenges and situation.

We look at it to different ways. I look at it like a guy that loves the game but hates what it has and is becoming. Which is why he didn't really go into depth about it. Saying that he told the truth and that is what counts.

Enaijo · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

WAIT, you want me to believe something smed says, I stopped listening to him 10 years ago all he does is twist lies into more lies. Can you please show me more proof other than smed.

He can't lie about business-numbers or he would end up in jail, simple as that. If it isn't enough for you, as I said, use google and search for yourself. You are the one who started this and flamed console-players, so why should I invest any more time to proof something? Do you have any proof for what you said? Obviously you don't ...

BuggeX · June 2015

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

says nothing, who pays the most, will get the worker. Blizzard and Riot has a greater Capital to spend.
So If Zos is willing to pay, hmmm 100k and Blizzard gives you 200k, wath are you doing?

BigM · June 2015

Enaijo wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

WAIT, you want me to believe something smed says, I stopped listening to him 10 years ago all he does is twist lies into more lies. Can you please show me more proof other than smed.

He can't lie about business-numbers or he would end up in jail, simple as that. If it isn't enough for you, as I said, use google and search for yourself. You are the one who started this and flamed console-players, so why should I invest any more time to proof something? Do you have any proof for what you said? Obviously you don't ...

LOL dude he has, go do some research on him, heck go on forums and ask about him you will find out, the guy plays number games with dollars.

BigM · June 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

granty2008cyb16_ESO wrote: »

http://massivelyop.com/2015/05/12/elder-scrolls-online-loses-two-key-devs-wow-picks-up-moorgard-from-eq-next/

so the devs are depleting :-(

says nothing, who pays the most, will get the worker. Blizzard and Riot has a greater Capital to spend.
So If Zos is willing to pay, hmmm 100k and Blizzard gives you 200k, wath are you doing?

Blizzard saw something they liked on how these devs did in ESO and it got them the job. Also Blizzard has been looking for new people for awhile. I agree they left for more money, who wouldn't. But am sure they see the same that we do on how ESOTU is going and decided time for a change. These guys have to think of family first.

Naivefanboi · June 2015

Good article, find it odd to be so critical now.... Lol
Really doubt zos cares about subs at this point, if it wasnt reliable revenue before i dont see why they would invrst much into it. Other then minimal perks that are just really a thank you for your support, my opinion anyway.
Seems odd to be so critical over somthing that was announced when theres so many more issues but thats another topic.
Sad that now days any form of valid criticism is considerd "trolling " "whinning "
Anything to discredit a complaint right?

Vahrokh · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

Blizzard saw something they liked on how these devs did in ESO and it got them the job. Also Blizzard has been looking for new people for awhile. I agree they left for more money, who wouldn't. But am sure they see the same that we do on how ESOTU is going and decided time for a change.

I work since 25 years ago and I have yet to leave a job because they offered me more money elsewhere.
I only accept jobs at complanies whose projects I believe in and want to be part of the projects growth.

I have quit 2 times because the CEOs of 2 companies were sorry sods who replaced good lead designers with money hungry monkeys who would even monetize water and completely disregarded quality and about delivering their promises.

kevlarto_ESO · June 2015

It's a personal choice to sub or not to sub to play or not to play, of which I could care less what others do, I do agree that the pc crowd got the shaft while waiting on the consoles, bad move and does not make your customers feel very valued.
I am sticking around to see what happens since console release is right around the corner, they really should use the ESO live show for a morale boost, give people something to look forward to in the coming months.

BigM · June 2015

Vahrokh wrote: »

BigM wrote: »

Blizzard saw something they liked on how these devs did in ESO and it got them the job. Also Blizzard has been looking for new people for awhile. I agree they left for more money, who wouldn't. But am sure they see the same that we do on how ESOTU is going and decided time for a change.

I work since 25 years ago and I have yet to leave a job because they offered me more money elsewhere.
I only accept jobs at complanies whose projects I believe in and want to be part of the projects growth.

I have quit 2 times because the CEOs of 2 companies were sorry sods who replaced good lead designers with money hungry monkeys who would even monetize water and completely disregarded quality and about delivering their promises.

Then sir I stand corrected.

Enaijo · June 2015

BigM wrote: »

Also Blizzard has been looking for new people for awhile.

All bigger developers do. Good people at this job are rare ... look at the Recruiting-Page of ZOS.

P3ZZL3 · June 2015

Ok, here's an insight in to how it more than likely went down:

Blizzard Meeting: We need 2 more, high quality Devs
Blizzard HR: Ok, we'll see who we can find

Blizzard HR call Agencies and give them a brief.
Agencies go onto Linked In, locate 10-12 good game developers and start a conversation with them.
Agencies send CV's through Blizzard
Blizzard Interview and make offer.
Candidates/Devs accept offer and move company.

As for the reasons to why people move companies it can be a whole barrel of things. The main reasons most will move from a role are:

Type of Work (does it still interest them)
Life Style options & Work/Life Balance
Higher Grade role/Title or a larger remit of work type
Money
Disillusioned with their present company for the above reasons

In some instances, it's a team move - certainly in the console markets. Much harder to orchestrate and normally depend on when a game development stage is coming to a close. But if you can do it, then it's worth much more to both Agency and Hiring Company and can devastate the present company. Hence, the counter offers will be high as their are millions riding on a release date typically for a publisher.

IT is rare that people ONLY move for money. There is almost always another reason why they are moving. And yes, sometimes it can even come down to the story they are given by the recruiter on how much "greener" the other field is. In reality, it's often not the case. And in some instances, as mentioned, it could well be just complete disillusionment with the company and the direction they are taking, the remit management are passing down to where they have decided for their career, it's time to move on.

How do I know this? I've been in recruitment for 15 years and move senior people all around the world.

Side Note: I also know a few things about Riot - and it turns out that it very much depends on the office you go to to what the environment / company is like.

Slurg · June 2015

The guy in the article just figured this out and cancelled his sub last week? He's about two months late for the cancellation party.

Psychobunni · June 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

As for the reasons to why people move companies it can be a whole barrel of things. The main reasons most will move from a role are:
Type of Work (does it still interest them)

Life Style options & Work/Life Balance

Higher Grade role/Title or a larger remit of work type

Money

Disillusioned with their present company for the above reasons

Which of those would you say "Job expectations went against personal moral beliefs" fits under?

I've left two places myself because what they expected and/or wanted me to do went against my own moral code. I'd never hack it as a politician/marketer/community mod/anyone required to lie or spin truth

Some people simply won't do anything for a buck, which is what your "Disillusioned with their present company for the above reasons" leaves out (imo)