[Data Mining] New Crown Store Items from 2.0.8

Iluvrien · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

but seriously. people are too concerned about what other people are doing. We should all just play our own game and let others play it the way they want to play it. If that includes paying money to circumvent ACTUAL gameplay, who am I to judge that or dictate that they shouldn't do that?

And if ZOS introduces mechanics that other people make use of that do affect the way I play? *ahem*motifs*ahem* Do I not then gain a chance to judge?

SantieClaws · May 2015

There is no 'win' ever in an MMO so no use arguing about pay to win. It is 'pay to have an advantage' though and that crosses a line. A line that had already been crossed by XP pots.

Costumes, pets, mounts etc ok. Xp pots, buying skills etc not ok.

This is the slippy slope of LOTRO which leads to things like cooldown timers on repeatable quests that can be overcome with tokens from the store. Then you move to things like stat tomes which can only be bought from the store and become essential if playing at a high level.

I will play as I do anyway, ignore what other folks do but stuff like this is slow burning poison to a game because it eventually changes the emphasis of game design to incorporate more buyable elements.

Iluvrien · May 2015

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

This is the slippy slope of LOTRO which leads to things like cooldown timers on repeatable quests that can be overcome with tokens from the store. Then you move to things like stat tomes which can only be bought from the store and become essential if playing at a high level.

I think that people classifying (and debunking) the current behaviour in the crown store as "slippery slope" is a bit simplistic.

Slippery slope is easy for people to try and debunk as the fallacy itself is based on a lack of data. The thing is, we don't really lack data at this point. There have been other stores in other B2P/F2P MMOs and the progression that you describe has been observed in some at least (SWTOR and LOTRO for me). This suggests that the concerns aren't about a slippery slope, but an prediction of future behaviour based on past experience... you know, the kind of educated guesswork we all use in our day-to-day lives when deciding if the bus is likely to be on time, or whether we should leave by the front door rather than the window on the third floor.

Takhistis · May 2015

How about we wait till ZOS releases info before we QQ.

Iluvrien · May 2015

Takhistis wrote: »

How about we wait till ZOS releases info before we QQ.

How about we don't misrepresent valid concerns based on information mined from the game files themselves (something ZOS is aware of) as QQ'ing?

schroed360 · May 2015

Flynch wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

If this is the only way ESO can survive, I say let it die.

A bit dramatic? Or do you genuinely hate the game and the developers so much that any sort of money made by the game is tainted unless it's through a sub?

I love the game and i also feel that a honorable " warhammer" death is better than a "great swtor" life...
Actually The Elder Scroll Online may already be dead ...TU is something "new".
Suppose here wé all want to hope that ESO will become what it could have become but with this monetisation and no update for more than 6(11 depending if you consider 1.6. An update)...it is hard to beleave.

olemanwinter · May 2015

Slurg wrote: »

it's p2not be knocked off your horse as easily, but that's not winning. You have to kill something to "win" and a faster or stronger horse doesn't help with that.

You use speed to chase people down by horse as well....not just flee. It's pay to win. If you catch and kill someone you wouldn't have otherwise been able to catch because you paid then ....you...paid...to...win.

Two VR1 players, each having played the game for 14 days.

1) healing templar

2) Nb dps

Player 1 sees player 2 and flees by horse. Player 1 has 14 points into speed. Player 2 went PTW and has 60 pts into speed.

Player 2 catches and kills Player 1. He quite literally wins. He quite literally paid to win.

Paulhewhewria · May 2015

All I've got to say is this ESO seems to be testing the waters as it were with putting these hints in patches such as with the XP potions.My stance on this is pvp wise it could be seen as pay to win and pve wise don't think it'd matter.Now I'm going to throw this out there and don't get me wrong I understand the pvp community's feelings or hope I do,but in all honesty the pvp community's been getting screwed for a while now in my opinion.As for those seeing "PAY TO WIN EVERYWHERE" don't take it the wrong way when I say this,but maybe its better to pick a better battle than this or at least until ZOS clearly states what their looking to do with this item(s).Not going to lie though I was a bit angry about motifs,but I said nothing because its not too bad I mean if they start selling like legendary gear sets that's where I'll pick my battle(not that my opinion is highly sought after lol).As long as it stays near cosmetic or around bypassing time limits I'll be neutral as I can see a hard working average person with a family may not have the time to feed a damn horse for X amount of days.

Rosveen · May 2015

I'm not terribly concerned with riding lessons, but I wonder why ZOS keeps pumping out convenience crap nobody asked for (crown store food, really?) instead of easy, non-controversial money-makers we've been begging for since launch: name change, barber shop, character slots.

JamilaRaj · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Sallington wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

So what's next? Crafting Trait acceleration?

I mean, by the way this reads you are buying points, circumventing the cool down for mount stamina / capacity / speed.

Not sure I'm feelin this Crown Store item.

How is this P2W? All you're doing is speeding up a process that ANY player can easily do.

(Same thing goes for crafting traits, which require ZERO skill or effort, only a tedious wait.)

This would ONLY be P2W if you could buy horse skill in the Crown Store that made you FASTER than anything that can be achieved solely with in-game items and skills.

I've been playing for two months, and you've been playing for 1 day and spend $20.

Your horse is twice as fast and it's twice as hard to knock you off it and you can carry more items in your inventory.

Sounds super fair and balanced.

I disagree... how do you know how long that player has been playing? Only conceptually does it seem "unfair" within the game you'll never notice.

Same could be applied on sales of maxed out characters, top gear, RMT with gold sellers or outright exploiting. Since players can not tell how other players arrived to otherwise plausible results, it only seems unfair if it was through any above mean.

However, that "never notice" part does not hold on larger scale. Players really do notice the games suck and regardless of whether they can tell horse is on steroids or not, P2W is to be blamed.

Gidorick wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I disagree... how do you know how long that player has been playing? Only conceptually does it seem "unfair" within the game you'll never notice.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, quacks like a duck...

It may be that the reason it seems conceptually unfair is because it may well be unfair, and the fact that you might never directly notice it is entirely beside the point.

but seriously. people are too concerned about what other people are doing. We should all just play our own game and let others play it the way they want to play it. If that includes paying money to circumvent ACTUAL gameplay, who am I to judge that or dictate that they shouldn't do that?

Players affect other players. If there was separated megaserver and campaigns with disabled cash shop, nobody would give a !@#$%^. It's not there though and, in part, it's not there precisely because for an advantage to be bought over someone, P2W players absolutely need some players that do not P2W (but I'll admit that P2W aspect of riding lessons is more of a by product, ZOS simply needs to encourage people to buy mounts and perhaps milk them a bit; consoles are whole another matter though).

Sausage · May 2015

This is mainly for alts in my opinion. Id prefer if riding skills were account-wide though.

phreatophile · May 2015

BrassRazoo wrote: »

I hope none of you P2W whingers never operate a business.

They'd be easy to compete against. Some people believe a lot of things that just ain't so. Profit is not evil, but it is entirely necessary to stay in business.

BuggeX · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

it's p2not be knocked off your horse as easily, but that's not winning. You have to kill something to "win" and a faster or stronger horse doesn't help with that.

You use speed to chase people down by horse as well....not just flee. It's pay to win. If you catch and kill someone you wouldn't have otherwise been able to catch because you paid then ....you...paid...to...win.

Two VR1 players, each having played the game for 14 days.

1) healing templar

2) Nb dps

Player 1 sees player 2 and flees by horse. Player 1 has 14 points into speed. Player 2 went PTW and has 60 pts into speed.

Player 2 catches and kills Player 1. He quite literally wins. He quite literally paid to win.

Player 3 (played since beta) see both of them, chase both and kill both....

p2w would be if Player 2 kills Player 3.

but anyway you tooked 2 stupid classes. lets say Player 1 is a sorc? wath then? or Player 2 is a sorc instead?

Legedric · May 2015

I lol'ed as I saw this Player 1,2,3 comparison...

Horse speed does not grant you a kill, it's whatever else but not the horse speed. Even if you are Player 2 and you do not own the speed you probably will kill Player 1 and 3 just because you can kill them, not because your mount helped you catching them on an open field...

But well, everyone has his own interpretation of Pay2Win so of course every new item that's not a pure costume, pet or mount will lead to this discussion anyway, keeping all these examples alive

Elsonso · May 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

If that includes paying money to circumvent ACTUAL gameplay, who am I to judge that or dictate that they shouldn't do that?

Well, for one thing, you are a player in an MMO RPG that is built upon character building via actual game play. It seems rather counter intuitive to circumvent actual game play in a game like that.

Rosveen wrote: »

I'm not terribly concerned with riding lessons, but I wonder why ZOS keeps pumping out convenience crap nobody asked for (crown store food, really?) instead of easy, non-controversial money-makers we've been begging for since launch: name change, barber shop, character slots.

Your exciting Crown Store stuff is someone else's yawn. It is certainly not a crown jewel in the store (pun intended) and is probably a money-maker on the order of what is already in there. For most people, this stuff is a one time thing, or at least an irregular thing. I think that character slots will not be very valuable and may not sell well in the store. How many times will the average player change their name?

The Barber Shop is an often requested function. It is an integral part of a larger push by players to be able to preserve end-game characters so that they can get a new one without having to level an alternate. Players can take their VR14 2H male Argonian Dragonknight, insert Crowns into the Daedric machine, and out pops a VR14 destruction female Nord Sorcerer. I am fairly certain that some players will pay generously to instantly level an entirely new character in this manner.

That said, the Barber Shop for cosmetic changes to the character should not be a Crown Store exclusive.

To circle back to to the top and answer the "so what if they can do that"... I am a player in an RPG game that is built upon character building via game play. I am hoping that integrity beats back rampant monetization in this game.

Praxxos · May 2015

They should revamp the training system at all. It should be like this:
Training a skill costs 2k gold. Training it again the same day will be 5k gold, then 15k gold on the same day...you know what i mean and i'm just playing with the numbers.
Then using this Book should reset the Training Timer to 2k Gold. So you can max your horse with a lot of cash in a short time since ZOS promised, you can only buy things you can also archieve in Game.

Ley · May 2015

At some point players will have to accept that this game is no longer a p2p, subscription based game and decide if the new model suits them or not. The reality is, there is now a cash shop and for it to be profitable, they need to put things in it that will create repeatable business. Cosmetics are fine and dandy but unless they expire every month, you don't have a good reason to buy every new cosmetic that comes out. I don't doubt that some players will buy up every new cosmetic that hits the crown shop but I'd hardly consider them a majority. New content would be great, and it will be when it gets released but it requires a lot of work, which limits their ability to release new content as frequently as we'd like and I'm sure they'd like. In between content release they still need to maintain some sort of income.

There's a lot of things I'd like to see added to the crown store that some people would agree are not remotely p2w, barber shop, name change, player housing, /emotes, new zones, new motifs, race change (arguable I know), bank slots (also arguable), more player slots, more costumes, more mounts. I honestly can't say why some of these things weren't introduced immediately with the release of the crown store but for the most part they're all 1-2 time purchases that once you get, you're not likely going to get them again. Someone suggested fireworks, well what happens when players start complaining that they give you a strategical advantage in pvp, a way to coordinate attacks, signal events, confuse players. Players will start complaining that to get that extra competitive edge in pvp, they feel forced to buy fireworks. Would they be deemed p2w as well?

As long as they stick to their initial crown store philosophy and only provide convenience items, short cuts for new players or players creating alts to catch up to the rest of us, things that don't directly give an advantage of power or diminish the "spirit" of the game; I don't see the problem. I have a line I draw and I know everyone's line is different but I'm willing to swallow my pride to an extent and tolerate controversial additions to the crown store as long as I don't feel forced into buying them to compete. When they said they would provide convenience items in the crown shop, what did you guys think they meant?

Granted some of this could probably be averted, if they just made eso+ somehow more appealing, raking in profits through that instead. I'm sure they'd welcome good ideas on how to do this without creating a p2w environment where non subscribers feel like 2nd class citizens.

Sallington · May 2015

Sausage wrote: »

This is mainly for alts in my opinion. Id prefer if riding skills were account-wide though.

That's one of the big problems with cash stores. They could easily fix/balance the actual way it works in game, but why would they when they can just charge you for the fix or a workaround?

In my opinion, if you DON'T think that they'll eventually be selling CPs in the cash store, or even a way to skip VRs, then you are naive. If there's a grind or time sink, they will sell you a way around it.

And some people are fine with that. There's the whole "lol grow up and get a job kid and just pay for it" crowd that will come to it's defense. I think that embodies everything wrong with the industry.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

but seriously. people are too concerned about what other people are doing. We should all just play our own game and let others play it the way they want to play it. If that includes paying money to circumvent ACTUAL gameplay, who am I to judge that or dictate that they shouldn't do that?

And if ZOS introduces mechanics that other people make use of that do affect the way I play? *ahem*motifs*ahem* Do I not then gain a chance to judge?

I'm sorry, did I miss something? How does armor appearance affect the way you play? Too busy eye-balling that Dwemer or Daedric armor and forget to block or what? I can't imagine any other way motifs affect game play. They are just a type of costume.

Joy_Division · May 2015

Having a maxed horse is absolutely an advantage in PvP and a potentially decisive one. This is not a clown costume, but something that gives the opposing player tangible power that they can purchase without having to play the game.

I understand people might not have a problem with this as there are people out there who actually don't mind what is loosely referred to as "Buy to Win" - games that run on a model that we can all agree is Buy to Win HAS customers and people who appreciate what it offers. But don't downplay the advantage a fast horse gives and claim this isn't power available on purchase. Just say you are cool with the Buy to Play concept.

Because ZoS insists on testing the waters how far they can stray toward "Buy to Win" by releasing controversial money-makers, I will express my displeasure at the direction the game is going. Like, how about you actual sell stuff that is NOT controversial that we've actually been asking for for over a year: name change, appearance change, additional character slots, housing, etc.

Ourorboros · May 2015

Takhistis wrote: »

How about we wait till ZOS releases info before we QQ.

I guess you didn't see the admin response. Paraphrasing here, but basically it said the horse skill books will be a Crown $tore item, details still being set. No need to wait to complain about them, they will be in the game unless ZO$ pulls a reversal.

Personally, I'm not thrilled to see cash short cuts added to the game, whether they affect me directly or not. It just rubs me the wrong way. If you team with me and you are buying these items, you better keep it a deep dark secret. Because if you die and need a rez, I'm going to tell you to buy a new life in the Crown Store.

Elsonso · May 2015

Ley wrote: »

The reality is, there is now a cash shop and for it to be profitable, they need to put things in it that will create repeatable business.

Cash store revenue is driven from people who are spending time in the game, and as a result, spend time and money in the cash store. Fancy cash store items do not drive revenue because average players do not log into the game just to browse the cash store. If there is no reason for a person to play the game, they will not be buying anything from the store. The game is the reason the average person plays, not the cash store. No one sells ESO by first talking about the Barber Shop in the cash store, or how easy it is to change your name via the cash store.

ESO is currently a revolving door. For the average gamer, there is not enough reason to stay in it. You get in, ride it for a while, then move on. (A few of us crazy types are exceptions and ride the door until we fall over, but we are crazy) This means that ESO, and consequently the cash store, needs an influx of new players to replace the departing players. The reality is, there is no content that will keep masses of people around for a long time. They cannot be profitable if they cannot keep players around, no matter what is in the store. You cannot have repeat cash store business in an environment where repeat business is difficult to maintain.

Now, part of me says build content, and they seem to be doing that. They are quite reserved on details, but the idea is goodness. New areas and things to do will extend the average life of the game for the players. This, in turn, will make it easier for the cash store to do what it does, fleece the players.

No only that, but the more time the average player spends in ESO, the more likely that others will notice. This is that whole "premium game" thing they were thinking of making.

But, part of me thinks they are heading towards some strange hybrid MMO-MOBA game where gangs of end-game characters just run around beating on each other. This would be the point of the game and end game is where to start. In this environment, the MMO RPG character progression is some archaic way to make the end-game character for those who cannot afford to buy one and immediately, or quickly, participate in the end-game battlefield. This is where unbridled "convenience" items in the cash store leads, and it can be massively profitable, if done right.

They are walking down both paths right now. It will be interesting to see what happens when those paths split.

Slurg · May 2015

Legedric wrote: »

I lol'ed as I saw this Player 1,2,3 comparison...

Horse speed does not grant you a kill, it's whatever else but not the horse speed. Even if you are Player 2 and you do not own the speed you probably will kill Player 1 and 3 just because you can kill them, not because your mount helped you catching them on an open field...

But well, everyone has his own interpretation of Pay2Win so of course every new item that's not a pure costume, pet or mount will lead to this discussion anyway, keeping all these examples alive

That was a fun example! So in a very narrow and rare scenario where two new characters of equal skill are in Cyrodiil (and really how many new people go there), one paid for faster mount training and the other didn't and is faster and is harder to knock off the horse. It's much more likely in this scenario they would all be easy kills for older and higher level characters whose mounts are already max level through existing means. The very same people who are screaming this feature is pay to win and shouldn't be added.

The verbal gymnastics used by the P2W alarmist crowd to fit every potential new crown store item into a P2W box are amusing but they need to lay off calling everyone who disagrees ignorant or a mmo noob because it doesn't help their case. Their efforts would be better focused on how this non-finalized feature we don't know the details of could possibly lead to a slippery slope/ change in other game mechanics. What kind of precedent is being set?

I think we do need to watch cautiously and ask questions when they start taking little game play features piecemeal and changing the mechanics of it based on cash output. If they do that with too many things it could become a pay to win situation. But saying this particular thing is pay to win because it might maybe possibly give one new character a non-combat advantage over another equal character in PVP only (not even in PVE where most new characters are) is a huge stretch.

Ley · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Ley wrote: »

The reality is, there is now a cash shop and for it to be profitable, they need to put things in it that will create repeatable business.

Cash store revenue is driven from people who are spending time in the game, and as a result, spend time and money in the cash store. Fancy cash store items do not drive revenue because average players do not log into the game just to browse the cash store. If there is no reason for a person to play the game, they will not be buying anything from the store. The game is the reason the average person plays, not the cash store. No one sells ESO by first talking about the Barber Shop in the cash store, or how easy it is to change your name via the cash store.

ESO is currently a revolving door. For the average gamer, there is not enough reason to stay in it. You get in, ride it for a while, then move on. (A few of us crazy types are exceptions and ride the door until we fall over, but we are crazy) This means that ESO, and consequently the cash store, needs an influx of new players to replace the departing players. The reality is, there is no content that will keep masses of people around for a long time. They cannot be profitable if they cannot keep players around, no matter what is in the store. You cannot have repeat cash store business in an environment where repeat business is difficult to maintain.

Now, part of me says build content, and they seem to be doing that. They are quite reserved on details, but the idea is goodness. New areas and things to do will extend the average life of the game for the players. This, in turn, will make it easier for the cash store to do what it does, fleece the players. No only that, but the more time the average player spends in ESO, the more likely that others will notice. This is that whole "premium game" thing they were thinking of making.

But, part of me thinks they are heading towards some strange hybrid MMO-MOBA game where gangs of end-game characters just run around beating on each other. This would be the point of the game and end game is where to start. In this environment, the MMO RPG character progression is some archaic way to make the end-game character for those who cannot afford to buy one and immediately, or quickly, participate in the end-game battlefield. This is where unbridled "convenience" items in the cash store leads, and it can be massively profitable, if done right.

They are walking down both paths right now. It will be interesting to see what happens when those paths split.

Of course they need to sustain a large enough player base and long term players, in order to remain successful. I understand how a steady flow of new content is important for that and yes we're long overdue for new content at the moment. I guess I'm an optimist in the sense that I believe that once consoles are released and no longer serve as a distraction for the developers, we'll be seeing a more steady stream of new content added to the game. Assuming they do start adding new content, items that create repeatable business are likely going to make them more money than any single expansion. The expansion just gives people a reason to keep playing, making alts, crafting new gear, pvping..

Lets face it, if they don't add content at fairly regular intervals, the game will slowly wither and die, regardless of what they offer for sale in the crown store.

Emma_Overload · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You "ZOMG...P2W" guys need to get a grip on reality: the ONLY way ESO is going to survive is if they sell stuff in the Crown Store, and the ONLY reason people are going to buy the stuff is if it actually does something useful!

You need to realize that some of us are giving ZOS money each month for membership. ESO Plus may seem like crazy talk to some people, that is true, but it is a source of revenue. If someone does not want ESO Plus and feels obligated to support ZOS so that ESO survives, worshiping at the Crown Store is perfectly acceptable to me. I gave at the office.

I'm all paid up on ESO+ for the next 3 months! But the only reason I subscribed is because I get the Crown points I would have bought anyway... the XP/gold bonuses are just icing on the cake. In other words, I'm still a subscriber, but only because of the added value created by the Crown Store.

BTW, if you're a subscriber yourself, wouldn't you rather spend your 1500 Crowns per month on things that are actually useful or valuable, instead of being limited to cosmetic fluff?

Elsonso · May 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You "ZOMG...P2W" guys need to get a grip on reality: the ONLY way ESO is going to survive is if they sell stuff in the Crown Store, and the ONLY reason people are going to buy the stuff is if it actually does something useful!

You need to realize that some of us are giving ZOS money each month for membership. ESO Plus may seem like crazy talk to some people, that is true, but it is a source of revenue. If someone does not want ESO Plus and feels obligated to support ZOS so that ESO survives, worshiping at the Crown Store is perfectly acceptable to me. I gave at the office.

I'm all paid up on ESO+ for the next 3 months! But the only reason I subscribed is because I get the Crown points I would have bought anyway... the XP/gold bonuses are just icing on the cake. In other words, I'm still a subscriber, but only because of the added value created by the Crown Store.

BTW, if you're a subscriber yourself, wouldn't you rather spend your 1500 Crowns per month on things that are actually useful or valuable, instead of being limited to cosmetic fluff?

No.

I want to spend my 1500 Crowns on cosmetic fluff, actually. I would hate to think I was spending money to be a member and still had to buy the additional useful and valuable stuff, even if it was covered by the 1500 Crown allowance. I want my membership to include the stuff that is actually useful and valuable. I am not paying to be in the Crowns of the Month club, although that is a benefit. If that is what ESO Plus turns into, free Crowns so I can purchase stuff that is actually useful and valuable from the Crown Store, I will probably drop ESO Plus. At that point, I will probably stop spending money on the game entirely since the recurring membership is what works best for me.

olemanwinter · May 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

but anyway you tooked 2 stupid classes. lets say Player 1 is a sorc? wath then? or Player 2 is a sorc instead?

It doesn't matter. Pay-to-win doesn't mean you win everything all the time. It means you are more competitive that people who didn't pay.

Arguing with you people is absurd.

And to someone else who said something about companies and profits and whatever.....yeah, Zos can go P2W. It's their game. They have that right. Capitalism and freedom FTW

BUT don't stare straight at something P2W and say it's not.

Ley · May 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

but anyway you tooked 2 stupid classes. lets say Player 1 is a sorc? wath then? or Player 2 is a sorc instead?

It doesn't matter. Pay-to-win doesn't mean you win everything all the time. It means you are more competitive that people who didn't pay.

Arguing with you people is absurd.

And to someone else who said something about companies and profits and whatever.....yeah, Zos can go P2W. It's their game. They have that right. Capitalism and freedom FTW

BUT don't stare straight at something P2W and say it's not.

So someone who maxed out their horse using the crown store is more competitive than someone who maxed out their horse the traditional way?

Sorry still haven't convinced me that this is p2w.

Sallington · May 2015

Ley wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

but anyway you tooked 2 stupid classes. lets say Player 1 is a sorc? wath then? or Player 2 is a sorc instead?

It doesn't matter. Pay-to-win doesn't mean you win everything all the time. It means you are more competitive that people who didn't pay.

Arguing with you people is absurd.

And to someone else who said something about companies and profits and whatever.....yeah, Zos can go P2W. It's their game. They have that right. Capitalism and freedom FTW

BUT don't stare straight at something P2W and say it's not.

So someone who maxed out their horse using the crown store is more competitive than someone who maxed out their horse the traditional way?

Sorry still haven't convinced me that this is p2w.

You still gain the advantage over someone who puts in the same amount of time. Calling it P2W is a matter of opinion and a lot of semantics, but it's definitely and advantage by paying real money.

If you don't think it's an advantage, go to Cyrodil with a slow horse, and then again with a maxed horse. Pretty big disparity between the two.

gard · May 2015

Smiteye wrote: »

MCMancub wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

p2w (in cyrodiil)

I've never done Cyrodiil so I honestly don't know why this would be P2W. Can you elaborate?

Pay to Progress.
Progress gives big benefits.

Playing the devil's advocate -
So if I pay for a speedier horse, does that give me an advantage over someone else who also has a maxed out horse?