Maintenance for the week of September 29:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 29, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 1, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
Guild stores are flooded and no one is buying
-
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
No, this would greatly increase the problem, fast and hard.
I have already posted how and why in this same thread, it's the same principles that apply to every MMORPG.
Also, as eloquently described by this post crashing markets are a byproduct of game issues.
Few weeks ago the influx of returning players "turned on" the demand so you could sell everything you wanted at almost any price. Now the majority of those players seem to have given up again, while people were still cranking out stuff for sale at maximum speed like they were still here. Result: general markets crash.
Markets swing. It's what markets do.
Knowing how markets work, I have massively profited from those 2 golden weeks, I had stocked a good million worth of stuff just for Tamriel Unlimited release and sold (amost) it all.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.
Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
Any plans to fix this?
Give us an auction house. Oh sorry people in traders guild fear auction house idea because traders guilds might go out of business since they can't charge taxes.
The problem with a global auction house is that it allows for a whole other level of playing the market. As the game stands right now, it's very easy to get a couple million gold. You can then buy up all of a certain item in high demand but relatively low price, and dispense it slowly at higher price points. I'm pretty sure there would be a huge inflation pretty quickly. This could be countered by not allowing items bought through the store to be resold there, but that's kind of like killing a fly with a stick of dynamite.
I'm not happy with the current system, but I'm not entirely sure a global AH would be the perfect solution to all our problems.
You are right. You REALLY don't want a global auction house. This is not fresh 2005 where any randomg vanilla WoW auction house could cut it.
It's 2015, many of us have played EvE Online with its quasi-realistic markets and charts. Some of us like me have experience in the real world financial markets.
We can completely destroy a market whose price is globally known. Forever. Cutting off less informed and new players till they go away. Don't let this happen.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO4 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...lordrichter wrote: »I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.
This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
Not necessarily true.
MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.
I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.
This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.
That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"
As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.
I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.
According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.
This is how economies work. Once the market has enough items of a certain type the price comes down. It happens all the time with new technology. DVD players used to cost hundreds of dollars, you can now get one for $40. The deflating is a natural process.
All the advocates realize this while all the adversaries are scared they will no longer be able to extort people.
2 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
I have spent 60 days played on my main, 20 days played on my alt. I think I have done 150+ goldpledges, and 150+ DSA runs.
I have wanted two items in this game for over 2 months now, and I play 12-14 hours a day. And those items are the masters bow and valkyn skoria shoulders. I still dont have any of those.
so NO everything is not way to easy to get in this game. I have never worked harder for loot in my whole gaming life.
For those who never have had to work hard for their gear:
Strength + agility ring drop in Molten Core in Vanilla WoW: for most guilds it dropped *twice* a year tops (with constant farming) and in WoW the loot was shared, that is you got dozens of guys bidding on one drop. We called it "Guild breaker" because I witnessed more than one medium core guild break apart upon the consequences of the litigations about that ring or some raid / guild leaders who would just ninja it and leave the guild.
So you think it's hard work to sit at a computer pushing buttons to earn virtual life achievements?1 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wrong.
Our guild merchant sold for over a million already.
Stop whining and work for a living!Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
pugyourself✭✭✭✭Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.
Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
Any plans to fix this?
Why are so many of your discussions and comments advocating an auction house?
Your statements in this thread are 100% false. I made 90k in guild store sales today alone.
Try again.2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭People want global action house because they are lazy. Its not about not to have time or cant do trading. Pure lazy....and ignorance about Economy Ecosystem and how Merchantlism works.
Some people are utters, some are rocks.
ZoS been shutting down these silly AH posts. They cant say it over and over for people who cant find a search function here.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"4 -
MercyKilling✭✭✭✭✭My evil plot succeeds!
I am not spending a single penny on the game until changes are made to the game that I want to see.
1) Remove having to be in a guild to sell items to other players at a kiosk.
2) Cosmetic modding for armor and clothing.
3) Difficulty slider.
4) Fully customizable player housing that isn't tied to anything in the game other than having the correct resources and enough gold to build. Don't tie it to PvP, guild membership, or anything at all. Oh, make it instanced so as not to take up world map space, too. Zeni screwed this one up already.
Any /one/ of these things implemented would get me spending again, maybe even subbing.0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.
Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
Any plans to fix this?
Give us an auction house. Oh sorry people in traders guild fear auction house idea because traders guilds might go out of business since they can't charge taxes.
The problem with a global auction house is that it allows for a whole other level of playing the market. As the game stands right now, it's very easy to get a couple million gold. You can then buy up all of a certain item in high demand but relatively low price, and dispense it slowly at higher price points. I'm pretty sure there would be a huge inflation pretty quickly. This could be countered by not allowing items bought through the store to be resold there, but that's kind of like killing a fly with a stick of dynamite.
I'm not happy with the current system, but I'm not entirely sure a global AH would be the perfect solution to all our problems.
You are right. You REALLY don't want a global auction house. This is not fresh 2005 where any randomg vanilla WoW auction house could cut it.
It's 2015, many of us have played EvE Online with its quasi-realistic markets and charts. Some of us like me have experience in the real world financial markets.
We can completely destroy a market whose price is globally known. Forever. Cutting off less informed and new players till they go away. Don't let this happen.
My friend..again you flabbergast me with an outstanding post. Short, and to the point. Not like my whining stuff.
Zenimax...Sticky this post please.Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
qsnoopyjr✭✭✭✭easy solution
When you die all your loot is free for all to anyone.
Runescape does it, and its been successful for a very long time.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem with the market right now isn't that nothing is selling. The problem is that there are very few gold sinks. This is creating extremely over inflated value on certain items while most everything else is so common that perceived value is tanking.
For example, blue motifs are selling for roughly 500g each. It was like this at launch, tapered down some when the influx of new players slowed down, and went up again with the influx of new players from Tamriel Unlimited. But see, 500g was a nice chunk of gold back then. It's peanuts now. So while the item is still selling for the same amount it was at launch, the perceived value is considerably lower because vet players have several hundred thousand or several million gold, while new players still struggle.
Purple recipes and purple motifs are still selling for roughly the same amount they always have, but again, the perceived value is down.
Crafting Tempers have gone up in perceived value actually since 1.6 due to the hireling nerf and a much smaller supply vs demand.
But all of this pales in comparison to what is absolutely controlling the market right now, and that is AP gear. This stuff is outlandishly overvalued because it's one of the only places to spend gold in the game. There isn't much else for an established player to spend all their gold on, so the value of AP gear just keeps going up and up and up. Shadow Walker rings are selling for 100k each. Martial Knowledge, Morag Tong, V14 versions of these sets are selling for 30k - 200k each. Look at te MM data for a V14 helm of Morag Tong. I believe it's up to 220k average price.
It wasn't that long ago that 200k would get your guild a pretty good kiosk. 200k used to seem like a lot of gold.
Now it seems like chump change to established players. There needs to be more gold sinks in the game.Edited by Alphashado on May 9, 2015 2:29PM2 -
Killum✭✭✭Is it correct that anyone can buy from a guild stall/trader? I have clicked on many (More than a dozen) and no items show.
I am at present not in a guild.0 -
Wolfshead✭✭✭✭The problem is that we have different guild store which mean you never know if someone else is sell same thing as you have for alot cheap price which mean that some item will not get sold if you dont know what other guild store sell item for.
If we would have WoW AH people can start play on AH buyout cheap item and sell for high price if the is a shorty of item and therefore you well make money get price up and also you can undercut other player sell same item as you so you get your item sold and so on.
The version we have is not that good for you cant not really get good server economy for you never know what price other guild have on same item as you have, with a AH like WoW you get better economy on server for everyone can sell item and therefore some item well get high value and we will basically you well get a market economy with AH like WoW which is alot better sometime.If you find yourself alone, riding in green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled; for you are in Elysium, and you're already deadWhat we do in life, echoes in eternity0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Kronosphere wrote: »i agree with too much junk loot. they literally THROW junk vendor trash at you every step of the way. kill a normal mob? have a green/white. finish a quest? have this green/white. do a bit of pvp didya? hmm your not looting.. oh i know i will just MAIL you some of these greens/whites.
there really really needs to be less utter junk! quest rewards for a start need to stop giving you junk under the guise of a cool name. if its not part of a set or purple+, its utter junk. stop handing it to us. and the pvp mails.. dont get me started. thats by far the worst offender.
But those items are worthwhile to someone with a character who needs to deconstruct stuff to level crafting. I'd be gutted if what you consider "junk" was removed from the game. If you don't want it, right click>destroy. Don't try to speak for all of us.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.1 -
Vyshan✭✭✭Guild stores aren't worth the effort.
It takes too long to locate which store is selling what, let alone comparing prices between stores. No thank you. I'll just vendor everything and harvest my own mats.3 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is that we have different guild store which mean you never know if someone else is sell same thing as you have for alot cheap price which mean that some item will not get sold if you dont know what other guild store sell item for.
If we would have WoW AH people can start play on AH buyout cheap item and sell for high price if the is a shorty of item and therefore you well make money get price up and also you can undercut other player sell same item as you so you get your item sold and so on.
The version we have is not that good for you cant not really get good server economy for you never know what price other guild have on same item as you have, with a AH like WoW you get better economy on server for everyone can sell item and therefore some item well get high value and we will basically you well get a market economy with AH like WoW which is alot better sometime.
An AH in ESO would be nothing like an AH in WoW. ESO has a mega server, wow has dozens of individual servers. The current kiosk system is much closer to a WoW AH than a global AH would be.Is it correct that anyone can buy from a guild stall/trader? I have clicked on many (More than a dozen) and no items show.
I am at present not in a guild.
Yes, anyone can shop at a kiosk. You are probably not using the filters. You must choose a category then click search.
1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...lordrichter wrote: »I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.
This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
Not necessarily true.
MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.
I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.
This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.
That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"
As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.
I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.
According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.
This is how economies work. Once the market has enough items of a certain type the price comes down. It happens all the time with new technology. DVD players used to cost hundreds of dollars, you can now get one for $40. The deflating is a natural process.
All the advocates realize this while all the adversaries are scared they will no longer be able to extort people.
My margins on goods are already razor thin. Extortion? More like charity. My time crafting food and potions would be better spent just not doing it anymore.
For real, try going into purple food or tripotion business sometime and tell me how much money you make (youre not allowed to farm mats, you must buy them at market price and use that to create your margin, no cheating)
You will actually lose money, the amount of time required to make money as a crafter now is offset by the fact you can actually make more money just grinding mobs mindlessly in a delve somewhere because of the price normalization MM has caused.
Because I deal in consumables, the market should never end or stay relatively static. It has not done this. Pricing margins have gotten to the point now where potion sellers actually lose money because competition has driven the average selling price down UNDER the cost of materials needed.
The only way around it would be to spend several hours farming the mats to make potions at pure profit, but the pure profit over time is not as much as simply grinding junk loot to sell at a vendor.
Its stupid.
Some math.
Current average price for a tripotion is about 135/unit. They are crafted in sets of 4, for a materials max cost of 540. This means to turn a profit, the total cost of 1 bugloss, 1 mountain flower, 1 columbine, and 1 cloud mist has to be under 540 gold.
I can tell you right now just the columbine (240) bugloss (150), and mountain flower (90) leaves barely any wiggle room for profit as it is. 480 in costs already and we havent even added in the water, which by the way does run about 20-30g/unit. So the profit margin on purchased mats vs final product yields a button press margin of far less than 5 percent, despite it taking time to collect/craft/list product, pay the guild store tax, and so on.
And youll never sell that stack of potions for more because MM makes it impossible to turn a profit on the sale, youre "extorting" the market if you dare go over the listed 135/unit. Try to sell it any higher and it simply will not move. Youre literally forced to eat costs. You lose money in the long run.
Again, you could farm the mats yourself, but with all time spent on that, youd make more money just grinding zombies in alikr desertEdited by Rylana on May 9, 2015 9:02AM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin5 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It's true, food and potions do not sell well. That is because crafting them yourself is easy. Sell the mats instead, they sell well. You're just trying to sell the wrong things.GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.2 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rook_Master wrote: »At this point I vend all equipment that isn't purple, or a v12 or higher piece from a decent set.
I just can't bother with trying to sell some crap piece for 20g higher than I can vend it for.
The game gives out way to much loot. We need more legitimate gold sinks.
This is the exact reason I argued for NOT nerfing down some of the larger gold/monkeysinks such as skill respecs (which were 100 gold per spent skill point and attribute point, with no morph-only one available for nearly free; I had to shell out around 26,500 gold per respec (265 skillpoints which became higher later) when theorycrafting and experimenting with builds to beat harder encounters such as the Trials when they first were added) way back when. Instead of wanting morph-only respecs for less, I mainly advocated for morph respecs as a convenience option that still cost the same but didn't have the tedium of re-spending everything including passives. Repair costs also had been higher in the past, including beta but live too. While respeccing isn't something you need to do frequently, it is a natural and smart spot to have a moderately high gold sink in, and needing to do it frequently isn't very common once you've learned the ropes of the game other than experimenting and theorycrafting.
Early on in the live game, if you grinded mobs just to farm for loot, you would accrue around as much gold from vendoring the non-special items as repair costs would hit you for, making it so you would farm for materials to sell or refine and gear to deconstruct to level crafting skills along with getting materials to make items with, rather than just vendor all of the loot and come out far ahead in raw gold. While leveling up a new player didn't end up with anywhere near the amount of gold in their pockets as they reached veteran 1, and subsequently veteran rank 10 (later on, 12 and 14), as much of it was consumed on buying & training their mount(s) (carrying and speed were preferred, most people didn't go for training up the improved stamina ones, and each horse ran 41,200 gold to buy per character) alongside repair costs from completing quests and dungeons/dolmens/world bosses/general adventuring.
As each of these were removed, and finally with the PVE-only portion of the Justice system being implemented with the initially-planned PVP portion not yet active, inflation snowballed and continues to do so, with items netting high amounts of gold due to the gold not being funneled out of the economy, but rather just changing hands between players with lots of it flooding in constantly.
tl;dr : Money/gold sinks are essential for a good MMO economy, and I think we need more and larger ones back in play to prevent rampant MUDflation.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »But all of this pales in comparison to what is absolutely controlling the market right now, and that is AP gear. This stuff is outlandishly overvalued because it's one of the only true gold sinks in the game.
AP gear is NOT a gold sink. A gold sink removes gold from the economy, i.e. it goes *poof* and nobody can use it. AP gear transfers gold from one player to another, increasing the amount available to AP farmers and driving the prices of highly-sought-after stuff UP (because big players have big gold and don't need to think twice about price comparisons).2 -
EQBallzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem is twofold. First, there are not that many valuable items in the game. Most of the stuff is junk. The best gear is crafted not dropped. There are few rare/unique items to find/sell in game with the exception of motifs and recipes and the prices for those have plummeted as more and more of the people who would need them get them (one time use item). Your best bet is to sell flowers, raw mats and rare crafting improvement mats.
Secondly, the guild stores are a mess. Spread out all over so trying to find what you need is a PITA. I get the feeling many just don't bother looking because it's not worth the time looking when the item is probably not that valuable anyway (and if it is valuable it's selling quickly and you probably won't find it but will waste 30 minutes traveling all over the world for nothing).
I have to agree with the person above that commented about MM addon. It's a great addon and has been very useful but I think it's really contributing to the downward pressure of pricing in the game. It's especially bad with this trader system. You put something up for 30 days and it may be competitively priced initially but if it doesn't sell in the first week..the price drops and now your item is red and overpriced and taking up valuable space on your trader and ultimately costing you not just the waste of a slot but the deposit that you lose when it doesn't sell.0 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...lordrichter wrote: »I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.
This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
Not necessarily true.
MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.
I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.
This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.
That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"
As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.
I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.
According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.
This is how economies work. Once the market has enough items of a certain type the price comes down. It happens all the time with new technology. DVD players used to cost hundreds of dollars, you can now get one for $40. The deflating is a natural process.
All the advocates realize this while all the adversaries are scared they will no longer be able to extort people.
My margins on goods are already razor thin. Extortion? More like charity. My time crafting food and potions would be better spent just not doing it anymore.
For real, try going into purple food or tripotion business sometime and tell me how much money you make (youre not allowed to farm mats, you must buy them at market price and use that to create your margin, no cheating)
You will actually lose money, the amount of time required to make money as a crafter now is offset by the fact you can actually make more money just grinding mobs mindlessly in a delve somewhere because of the price normalization MM has caused.
Because I deal in consumables, the market should never end or stay relatively static. It has not done this. Pricing margins have gotten to the point now where potion sellers actually lose money because competition has driven the average selling price down UNDER the cost of materials needed.
The only way around it would be to spend several hours farming the mats to make potions at pure profit, but the pure profit over time is not as much as simply grinding junk loot to sell at a vendor.
Its stupid.
Some math.
Current average price for a tripotion is about 135/unit. They are crafted in sets of 4, for a materials max cost of 540. This means to turn a profit, the total cost of 1 bugloss, 1 mountain flower, 1 columbine, and 1 cloud mist has to be under 540 gold.
I can tell you right now just the columbine (240) bugloss (150), and mountain flower (90) leaves barely any wiggle room for profit as it is. 480 in costs already and we havent even added in the water, which by the way does run about 20-30g/unit. So the profit margin on purchased mats vs final product yields a button press margin of far less than 5 percent, despite it taking time to collect/craft/list product, pay the guild store tax, and so on.
And youll never sell that stack of potions for more because MM makes it impossible to turn a profit on the sale, youre "extorting" the market if you dare go over the listed 135/unit. Try to sell it any higher and it simply will not move. Youre literally forced to eat costs. You lose money in the long run.
Again, you could farm the mats yourself, but with all time spent on that, youd make more money just grinding zombies in alikr desert
First, no one is forcing you to sell consumables. Second, farming the mats is the only way to make it profitable. If you want to be a crafter then you have to spend your in game time doing that. It's no different than anything else in game. If you want the best gear you have to spend hours and hours and hours PVP'n and running dungeons and trials. There is no such thing as a casual crafter if you want to make money at it. If you want to craft for profit then you have to be a crafter. I don't like the idea of actively obtain in crafting materials. SWG had a much better crafting system.
For the record, SWG is the only game I've played that's done crafting right. All others pale in comparison.Edited by Jaxsun on May 9, 2015 11:25AM0 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...lordrichter wrote: »I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.
This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
Not necessarily true.
MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.
I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.
This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.
That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"
As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.
I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.
According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.
This is how economies work. Once the market has enough items of a certain type the price comes down. It happens all the time with new technology. DVD players used to cost hundreds of dollars, you can now get one for $40. The deflating is a natural process.
All the advocates realize this while all the adversaries are scared they will no longer be able to extort people.
My margins on goods are already razor thin. Extortion? More like charity. My time crafting food and potions would be better spent just not doing it anymore.
For real, try going into purple food or tripotion business sometime and tell me how much money you make (youre not allowed to farm mats, you must buy them at market price and use that to create your margin, no cheating)
You will actually lose money, the amount of time required to make money as a crafter now is offset by the fact you can actually make more money just grinding mobs mindlessly in a delve somewhere because of the price normalization MM has caused.
Because I deal in consumables, the market should never end or stay relatively static. It has not done this. Pricing margins have gotten to the point now where potion sellers actually lose money because competition has driven the average selling price down UNDER the cost of materials needed.
The only way around it would be to spend several hours farming the mats to make potions at pure profit, but the pure profit over time is not as much as simply grinding junk loot to sell at a vendor.
Its stupid.
Some math.
Current average price for a tripotion is about 135/unit. They are crafted in sets of 4, for a materials max cost of 540. This means to turn a profit, the total cost of 1 bugloss, 1 mountain flower, 1 columbine, and 1 cloud mist has to be under 540 gold.
I can tell you right now just the columbine (240) bugloss (150), and mountain flower (90) leaves barely any wiggle room for profit as it is. 480 in costs already and we havent even added in the water, which by the way does run about 20-30g/unit. So the profit margin on purchased mats vs final product yields a button press margin of far less than 5 percent, despite it taking time to collect/craft/list product, pay the guild store tax, and so on.
And youll never sell that stack of potions for more because MM makes it impossible to turn a profit on the sale, youre "extorting" the market if you dare go over the listed 135/unit. Try to sell it any higher and it simply will not move. Youre literally forced to eat costs. You lose money in the long run.
Again, you could farm the mats yourself, but with all time spent on that, youd make more money just grinding zombies in alikr desert
First, no one is forcing you to sell consumables. Second, farming the mats is the only way to make it profitable. If you want to be a crafter then you have to spend your in game time doing that. It's no different than anything else in game. If you want the best gear you have to spend hours and hours and hours PVP'n and running dungeons and trials. There is no such thing as a casual crafter if you want to make money at it. If you want to craft for profit then you have to be a crafter. I don't like the idea of actively obtain in crafting materials. SWG had a much better crafting system.
For the record, SWG is the only game I've played that's done crafting right. All others pale in comparison.
On your last sentence, there is literally nothing I can do but wholeheartedly agree -.-
Back on the topic at hand, I am well aware of the time investment, however in this particular game, the lack of valued goods is so thin.... as in, there are very few things people even buy in the first place, that to even have a market at all you gotta pick your spot.
Mine was craftable consumables, and it did quite well until the last couple of months when these addons became so commonplace. You can tell now that everyone is using them because prices dont fluctuate kiosk to kiosk. There is no sense of "what person X thinks its worth to them". Its all fixed pricing, which destroys the spirit of a player driven economy. At this point zenimax might as well just be selling every drop item at some arbitrary rate, because the guild stores are no different.
As more markets close, fewer crafters will exist. Personal crafting increases, everyone is self reliant, no one needs a market anymore. This games economy truly dies. Not hyperbole, not just speculation, it is literally the trend.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin3 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's true, food and potions do not sell well. That is because crafting them yourself is easy. Sell the mats instead, they sell well. You're just trying to sell the wrong things.
You do understand how that, while having truth, counteracts the entire spirit of a crafting system, right?
Why would we need gas stations when everyone has their own personal oil well drilled in the back yard, etc.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin0 -
kodo✭✭Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.
Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
Any plans to fix this?
try to find worms for fishing...lucky for us guild stores sell them.0 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Ourorboros wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.
This is why we need a global auction house.
It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...lordrichter wrote: »I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.
This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.Amsel_McKay wrote: »Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.
If it's red you've overpriced it...
Not necessarily true.
MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.
I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.
This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.
That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"
As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.
I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.
According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.
This is how economies work. Once the market has enough items of a certain type the price comes down. It happens all the time with new technology. DVD players used to cost hundreds of dollars, you can now get one for $40. The deflating is a natural process.
All the advocates realize this while all the adversaries are scared they will no longer be able to extort people.
My margins on goods are already razor thin. Extortion? More like charity. My time crafting food and potions would be better spent just not doing it anymore.
For real, try going into purple food or tripotion business sometime and tell me how much money you make (youre not allowed to farm mats, you must buy them at market price and use that to create your margin, no cheating)
You will actually lose money, the amount of time required to make money as a crafter now is offset by the fact you can actually make more money just grinding mobs mindlessly in a delve somewhere because of the price normalization MM has caused.
Because I deal in consumables, the market should never end or stay relatively static. It has not done this. Pricing margins have gotten to the point now where potion sellers actually lose money because competition has driven the average selling price down UNDER the cost of materials needed.
The only way around it would be to spend several hours farming the mats to make potions at pure profit, but the pure profit over time is not as much as simply grinding junk loot to sell at a vendor.
Its stupid.
Some math.
Current average price for a tripotion is about 135/unit. They are crafted in sets of 4, for a materials max cost of 540. This means to turn a profit, the total cost of 1 bugloss, 1 mountain flower, 1 columbine, and 1 cloud mist has to be under 540 gold.
I can tell you right now just the columbine (240) bugloss (150), and mountain flower (90) leaves barely any wiggle room for profit as it is. 480 in costs already and we havent even added in the water, which by the way does run about 20-30g/unit. So the profit margin on purchased mats vs final product yields a button press margin of far less than 5 percent, despite it taking time to collect/craft/list product, pay the guild store tax, and so on.
And youll never sell that stack of potions for more because MM makes it impossible to turn a profit on the sale, youre "extorting" the market if you dare go over the listed 135/unit. Try to sell it any higher and it simply will not move. Youre literally forced to eat costs. You lose money in the long run.
Again, you could farm the mats yourself, but with all time spent on that, youd make more money just grinding zombies in alikr desert
First, no one is forcing you to sell consumables. Second, farming the mats is the only way to make it profitable. If you want to be a crafter then you have to spend your in game time doing that. It's no different than anything else in game. If you want the best gear you have to spend hours and hours and hours PVP'n and running dungeons and trials. There is no such thing as a casual crafter if you want to make money at it. If you want to craft for profit then you have to be a crafter. I don't like the idea of actively obtain in crafting materials. SWG had a much better crafting system.
For the record, SWG is the only game I've played that's done crafting right. All others pale in comparison.
On your last sentence, there is literally nothing I can do but wholeheartedly agree -.-
Back on the topic at hand, I am well aware of the time investment, however in this particular game, the lack of valued goods is so thin.... as in, there are very few things people even buy in the first place, that to even have a market at all you gotta pick your spot.
Mine was craftable consumables, and it did quite well until the last couple of months when these addons became so commonplace. You can tell now that everyone is using them because prices dont fluctuate kiosk to kiosk. There is no sense of "what person X thinks its worth to them". Its all fixed pricing, which destroys the spirit of a player driven economy. At this point zenimax might as well just be selling every drop item at some arbitrary rate, because the guild stores are no different.
As more markets close, fewer crafters will exist. Personal crafting increases, everyone is self reliant, no one needs a market anymore. This games economy truly dies. Not hyperbole, not just speculation, it is literally the trend.
The issue is with the structure ZOS has implemented not the add-ons. They need to make a change. I don't care about immersion or lore. This is an mmo not a single player game. Simply increasing the drop rate of all the alchemy/provisioning mats would make a huge difference. Even if all they did was make one kiosk in each capitol city that would search all available guild traders we'd be much better off. I agree that there really isn't anything worth buying other than consumables but that's an issue with game design. As usual we are trying to limp along on a half-hearted system in this game. I mean, why can't we be told what item and on which store it sold in the email generated by the game? That's just infuriating. I could go on and on about the half-way design of this game but it will just make me rage. So, I'm out.1 -
Theosis✭✭✭✭OrphanHelgen wrote: »I have spent 60 days played on my main, 20 days played on my alt. I think I have done 150+ goldpledges, and 150+ DSA runs.
I have wanted two items in this game for over 2 months now, and I play 12-14 hours a day. And those items are the masters bow and valkyn skoria shoulders. I still dont have any of those.
so NO everything is not way to easy to get in this game. I have never worked harder for loot in my whole gaming life.
12-14 hours a day?This is were my signature would be if I was allowed one.0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.
Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.
Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.
Any plans to fix this?
try to find worms for fishing...lucky for us guild stores sell them.
I used to sell all bait at 5-7g each, depending on the bait, back around the time that guts were very rare due to a bug in drops. I generally sold for this price, 5g for common bait and 7g for the harder to find stuff, no matter how much more Shopkeeper said they were selling for. Currently, MM says that bait is 4g each, except for crawlers at 2g each. This is too cheap to justify an inventory slot these days if almost anything else comes along. Like rubies and diamonds, I will ditch bait to make room for more valuable stuff. ESO is a crazy game in terms of itemization and value when guts are worth more than diamonds, but with limited inventory space, I usually end up dumping both.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Attorneyatlawl✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »But all of this pales in comparison to what is absolutely controlling the market right now, and that is AP gear. This stuff is outlandishly overvalued because it's one of the only true gold sinks in the game.
AP gear is NOT a gold sink. A gold sink removes gold from the economy, i.e. it goes *poof* and nobody can use it. AP gear transfers gold from one player to another, increasing the amount available to AP farmers and driving the prices of highly-sought-after stuff UP (because big players have big gold and don't need to think twice about price comparisons).
To make sure everyone's on the same page in this thread...
A gold or money sink REMOVES the currency from the game world and players' hands entirely. Trading or buying from another player simply CHANGES who owns the currency, while more continues to come into existence and its value becomes diminished.-First-Wave Closed Beta Tester of the Psijic Order, aka the 0.016 percent.
Exploits suck. Don't blame just the game, blame the players abusing them!
-Playing since July 2013, back when we had a killspam channel in Cyrodiil and the lands of Tamriel were roamed by dinosaurs.
________________
-In-game mains abound with "Nerf" in their name. As I am asked occasionally, I do not play on anything but the PC NA Megaserver at this time.1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Attorneyatlawl wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »But all of this pales in comparison to what is absolutely controlling the market right now, and that is AP gear. This stuff is outlandishly overvalued because it's one of the only true gold sinks in the game.
AP gear is NOT a gold sink. A gold sink removes gold from the economy, i.e. it goes *poof* and nobody can use it. AP gear transfers gold from one player to another, increasing the amount available to AP farmers and driving the prices of highly-sought-after stuff UP (because big players have big gold and don't need to think twice about price comparisons).
To make sure everyone's on the same page in this thread...
A gold or money sink REMOVES the currency from the game world and players' hands entirely. Trading or buying from another player simply CHANGES who owns the currency, while more continues to come into existence and its value becomes diminished.
Ideally, the amount of gold removed from the game due to sinks should be the same order of magnitude as the amount created due to rewards, treasure, and merchant sales. To prevent gold from collecting in the hands of a few, the people who have tons of gold need to have expensive things to purchase, preferably non-durable items.
Sadly, the Crown Store messes with this dynamic.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1