Guild stores are flooded and no one is buying

newtinmpls · May 2015

daemonios wrote: »

Why even bother to craft end game gear, most dropped gear is better than crafted at end game now.

Sylvyr wrote: »

True for the most part, but I still top off my dropped gear with some crafted pieces. But yes, crafted gear is lagging way behind, and has been for months. The most useful sets are 3 to 4-traits required, i.e. any half-decent crafter can make them.

I imagine it all depends on who you are trying to sell "to". Yes, endgame gear is a whole other ballgame, so other than a few odd bits (shoulders, belt and such) for Vr1, I pretty muck stick to making armor at 16, 26, 36, 46 (when folks first go up - want it and might be impatient for it - and probably have some money).

Jaxsun · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.

This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.

Jaxsun wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

If it's red you've overpriced it...

Not necessarily true.

MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.

I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.

This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.

King Bozo · May 2015

maryriv wrote: »

Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.

Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.

Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.

Any plans to fix this?

Give us an auction house. Oh sorry people in traders guild fear auction house idea because traders guilds might go out of business since they can't charge taxes.

daemonios · May 2015

King Bozo wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Everyone is selling stuff @ cost (to be nice?) and still markets flooded with things like recipes etc.

Meanwhile "precious" gems remain @ zero cost.

Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.

Any plans to fix this?

Give us an auction house. Oh sorry people in traders guild fear auction house idea because traders guilds might go out of business since they can't charge taxes.

The problem with a global auction house is that it allows for a whole other level of playing the market. As the game stands right now, it's very easy to get a couple million gold. You can then buy up all of a certain item in high demand but relatively low price, and dispense it slowly at higher price points. I'm pretty sure there would be a huge inflation pretty quickly. This could be countered by not allowing items bought through the store to be resold there, but that's kind of like killing a fly with a stick of dynamite.

I'm not happy with the current system, but I'm not entirely sure a global AH would be the perfect solution to all our problems.

Rylana · May 2015

Master Merchant and Data Daedra honestly wrecked the economy more than anything else.

As items are constantly undercut, the priceline drops, further and further until eventually you see a list of 20 different prices in the same store, with only the lowest ever being bought, further devaluing the items.

Some of you might consider it market correction, but its actually not. Let me give you an example of price manipulation. Say I am a member o two or three massive tradeguilds with high volume. I drop a few hundred gold on some relatively high priced mats (say dragonthorn flowers). I then sell them all for 6 gold a piece, and they are gobbled up). Everyones MM now registers those sales in those guilds, and I repeat the process on the other guilds, driving the price further down. I do this enough times, and the value of dragonthorn is now so low that everyone prices it lower. The market gluts and no one can sell. It literally forces people to go into mat farming for themselves because prices get so far out of whack that its pointless to shop.

This is why a central AH is always a terrible idea in an MMO, and why addons like these add to the overall problem.

Buy and sell for what its worth to you and your purchaser, not what some addon tells you its worth. Otherwise in a game where everything is drop drop drop farm farm farm, everything approaches zero value.

Cervanteseric85ub17_ESO · May 2015

vovus69 wrote: »

pvp gear always should be bound on pickup otherwise you will have an agreement play - when two or three parties will agreed upon giving up keeps and castles to each other in order to get the emperor buffs and pvp stuff like master weapon etc. Only pve content could be sold - this way zos can handle the way those items will be obtained from the bosses. Just make boss powerful enough and no agreement play will help

This is now the 3rd comment in this thread saying that PVP gear should be BOP while PVE gear should be BOE, why should the only players allowed to make gold off their preferred play style be PVE players ? Why should the PVP player who fights in Cyrodil all day not be allowed to profit from the time spent just like a pve player who runs DSA or trials profits from their time spent ? Also for example a morag tang dagger which sells for 130k is a piece that is acquired through a gamble system from Loot boxes. I know people that have spent almost a million AP just to get one, one million AP is a lot more then the normal pvp players gets in a whole campaign duration. IMO pvp item prices are in the right range when you consider the amount of demand there is for them. The value of an item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it, don't forget this very basic concept of what determines what an item is worth.

wraith808 · May 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I would become a customer, if I could just sell my own items to someone. But if I can not make any gold, why spend it for someone else?

A good market allows everyone to contribute on both sides, but the ES market only lets guild members sell, but everyone buy. Of course the market is broke then, this is simple economics. People can only buy something if they make gold themselves and since we don't have jobs at Tamriel, we need to sell our own stuff first, before we can buy stuff from someone

It's not that simplistic, and that in and of itself doesn't create the problem that's being stated, even if one agrees that it's necessarily a problem. But, when you're a hammer, you hope that you can cast everything as a nail, I guess.

idk · May 2015

I sell plenty. Over 100k this week. Pricing is always an important detail to consider. Also, unless one is buying from a vendor the. There is no selling at cost as most everything is free.

wraith808 · May 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

If it's red you've overpriced it...

Agreed. MM does one thing that's not advertised- the aggregate over markets shows you a bit about what people are complaining an AH would do. As you get more/different markets included over your aggregate, your prices are affected by markets that aren't even a part of yours... driving the price down. Normally, an AH does that organically, but MM is allowing that to happen also.

Rook_Master · May 2015

The only stuff I ever buy is dropped sets and alchemy reagents.

Seriously, who is buying all this other crap?

OrphanHelgen · May 2015

maryriv wrote: »

Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.

I have spent 60 days played on my main, 20 days played on my alt. I think I have done 150+ goldpledges, and 150+ DSA runs.

I have wanted two items in this game for over 2 months now, and I play 12-14 hours a day. And those items are the masters bow and valkyn skoria shoulders. I still dont have any of those.

so NO everything is not way to easy to get in this game. I have never worked harder for loot in my whole gaming life.

Rylana · May 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

I do feel that ZOS should add more demand on the gemstones for traits so their value goes up.

This is the first game I have played where precious gems have no value, including prior TES titles.

Jaxsun wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

If it's red you've overpriced it...

Not necessarily true.

MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.

I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.

This is why we need a global auction house. The only way to get a fair price is to have all items available to everyone at the same time without having to run all over the map. Then MM will show us the average sale price of all items of the same type. Not just the sale of the at most 2500 people it can currently track per account.

That would actually make it worse. Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first"

As that occurs, over and over, everything devalues to the point of hilarity. Or have you not seen the downtrend in say... v1 warlock signets this month alone? They went from 9k to 4k. Not because the sales volume increased, it has remained relatively steady, but because player greed for a quick sale drove the average down, making the next guy drop his, and the next, and the next.

I challenge you to find any single chart on MM in the game right now (besides columbine and tempering alloys) that has INCREASED in value over the last month.

According to mine, you wont find one, as everything is deflating.

wraith808 · May 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

MM is not an absolute. There is considerable variation and what is high for you might be higher or lower for someone else.

I sell stuff over my MM average price all the time.

Yes, and no. You've hit the nail on the head the MM is not an absolute. By the same token, it really depends on the sample set of the viewer.

MM aggregates over the users market set. Not the total market set. So, you have 5 guilds. If only one of them is large enough to have a store... then your market is based purely on that data. If 5 have stores... even if less than that are *really* stores with kiosks and such... it will aggregate over all of them. So your red isn't the same as everyone else's red.

MM needs to have something like PC, where it tells you what guild is your high and what guild is your low for the day... then you can judge the aggregate better...

wraith808 · May 2015

daemonios wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I do believe Master Merchant plays a big part in whats happening....but the blame falls on ZOS, not the addon creator.

Why? Players begged and begged for a better UI for the kiosk system, if they had only listened then MM would never have came to be. It's creation was to fill a player need ZOS ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

I don't understand your argument. Are you saying ZOS should add price comparison to the base store UI, because it sounds like that's what's causing the problem to begin with. I guess ZOS could trim back API access for such add-ons. They've done it before.

I don't think that's what he means. Since players couldn't get stuff like actual decent filters or text search through the default UI, everybody turned to add-ons, and one of the best is Master Merchant, which goes above and beyond what the average player required. Now everyone has an advanced market analysis tool. ZOS have been completely deaf to legitimate concerns about the lack of some features in the default UI, and this is one of the consequences.

By the way, Minion reports that Awesome Guild Store has 88k+ downloads and Master Merchant has 66k+. That's at least 66 THOUSAND players (maybe a little less, discounting repeated downloads) who felt ZOS' UI was insufficient.

MM does something different than affect the text search from my use. It doesn't change the UI for text search... or am I missing a feature? Master Merchant includes things that aren't available in any MMO from a default perspective as far as market analysis. So I don't think that for that particular thing that ZOS is to blame. This isn't to say that the interface doesn't need work... it does. But that's conflating two issues.

wraith808 · May 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

Ourorboros wrote: »

Jaxsun wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

If it's red you've overpriced it...

In addition to Lord RIchter's comment above, I posted earlier about issues with Master Merchant and other add-ons. I NEVER set my starting price above what is recommended by MM. However, the market is so volatile, I often see my items become overpriced within a matter of days. If my guild missed getting a vendor, I can just about forget selling most items listed that week. By the time we get the vendor my once reasonable prices are higher than the market. I am actually taking this in consideration when I buy things now. If an item is red, and just listed, the seller is gouging, But if the item has been listed for more than a few days, it may have been fairly priced. I'll buy it if there is not a cheaper one listed.

This is why we need a global auction house.

It can actually be an argument the other way, in all honesty...

Rosveen · May 2015

wraith808 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I do believe Master Merchant plays a big part in whats happening....but the blame falls on ZOS, not the addon creator.

Why? Players begged and begged for a better UI for the kiosk system, if they had only listened then MM would never have came to be. It's creation was to fill a player need ZOS ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

I don't understand your argument. Are you saying ZOS should add price comparison to the base store UI, because it sounds like that's what's causing the problem to begin with. I guess ZOS could trim back API access for such add-ons. They've done it before.

I don't think that's what he means. Since players couldn't get stuff like actual decent filters or text search through the default UI, everybody turned to add-ons, and one of the best is Master Merchant, which goes above and beyond what the average player required. Now everyone has an advanced market analysis tool. ZOS have been completely deaf to legitimate concerns about the lack of some features in the default UI, and this is one of the consequences.

By the way, Minion reports that Awesome Guild Store has 88k+ downloads and Master Merchant has 66k+. That's at least 66 THOUSAND players (maybe a little less, discounting repeated downloads) who felt ZOS' UI was insufficient.

MM does something different than affect the text search from my use. It doesn't change the UI for text search... or am I missing a feature? Master Merchant includes things that aren't available in any MMO from a default perspective as far as market analysis. So I don't think that for that particular thing that ZOS is to blame. This isn't to say that the interface doesn't need work... it does. But that's conflating two issues.

This is correct. MM doesn't fix the guild store interface, AwesomeGuildStore does. I initially installed Shopkeeper, later replaced with MM, only to get info about what items I sold - ZOS definitely is to blame for that. Tbh, I don't need any other MM functionalities. Price check is very useful, but I could do without it and I'm not 100% sure I'd go out looking for it if it wasn't bundled with the other thing I do want.

AwesomeGuildStore on its own doesn't affect the economy negatively.

wraith808 · May 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I do believe Master Merchant plays a big part in whats happening....but the blame falls on ZOS, not the addon creator.

Why? Players begged and begged for a better UI for the kiosk system, if they had only listened then MM would never have came to be. It's creation was to fill a player need ZOS ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

I don't understand your argument. Are you saying ZOS should add price comparison to the base store UI, because it sounds like that's what's causing the problem to begin with. I guess ZOS could trim back API access for such add-ons. They've done it before.

I don't think that's what he means. Since players couldn't get stuff like actual decent filters or text search through the default UI, everybody turned to add-ons, and one of the best is Master Merchant, which goes above and beyond what the average player required. Now everyone has an advanced market analysis tool. ZOS have been completely deaf to legitimate concerns about the lack of some features in the default UI, and this is one of the consequences.

By the way, Minion reports that Awesome Guild Store has 88k+ downloads and Master Merchant has 66k+. That's at least 66 THOUSAND players (maybe a little less, discounting repeated downloads) who felt ZOS' UI was insufficient.

MM does something different than affect the text search from my use. It doesn't change the UI for text search... or am I missing a feature? Master Merchant includes things that aren't available in any MMO from a default perspective as far as market analysis. So I don't think that for that particular thing that ZOS is to blame. This isn't to say that the interface doesn't need work... it does. But that's conflating two issues.

This is correct. MM doesn't fix the guild store interface, AwesomeGuildStore does. I initially installed Shopkeeper, later replaced with MM, only to get info about what items I sold - ZOS definitely is to blame for that. Tbh, I don't need any other MM functionalities. Price check is very useful, but I could do without it and I'm not 100% sure I'd go out looking for it if it wasn't bundled with the other thing I do want.

AwesomeGuildStore on its own doesn't affect the economy negatively.

So how is ZOS to blame for MM? Other than putting the hooks into the API?

Psychobunni · May 2015

daemonios wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I do believe Master Merchant plays a big part in whats happening....but the blame falls on ZOS, not the addon creator.

Why? Players begged and begged for a better UI for the kiosk system, if they had only listened then MM would never have came to be. It's creation was to fill a player need ZOS ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

I don't understand your argument. Are you saying ZOS should add price comparison to the base store UI, because it sounds like that's what's causing the problem to begin with. I guess ZOS could trim back API access for such add-ons. They've done it before.

I don't think that's what he means. Since players couldn't get stuff like actual decent filters or text search through the default UI, everybody turned to add-ons, and one of the best is Master Merchant, which goes above and beyond what the average player required. Now everyone has an advanced market analysis tool. ZOS have been completely deaf to legitimate concerns about the lack of some features in the default UI, and this is one of the consequences.

By the way, Minion reports that Awesome Guild Store has 88k+ downloads and Master Merchant has 66k+. That's at least 66 THOUSAND players (maybe a little less, discounting repeated downloads) who felt ZOS' UI was insufficient.

Aye, that's pretty much what I was saying. Sure some sort of price comparison checker likely may have came about at some point, but had ZOS listened and added in the basic mechanics such as telling us what we sold and from where... for example it would have decreased the needs for addons and competition for each addon to do more and more.

Limiting what addons can do without fixing the initial problems isnt the answer either, despite how loudly UI purist scream, the mere download numbers show players want them. To fix this problem ZOS needs to come up off it, admit the kiosk system sucks from A to Z and revamp it (as players have been begging, very few like the system "as is, pure and addonless")......or admit defeat and give us the AH.

daemonios · May 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

wraith808 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

I do believe Master Merchant plays a big part in whats happening....but the blame falls on ZOS, not the addon creator.

Why? Players begged and begged for a better UI for the kiosk system, if they had only listened then MM would never have came to be. It's creation was to fill a player need ZOS ignored and continues to ignore to this day.

I don't understand your argument. Are you saying ZOS should add price comparison to the base store UI, because it sounds like that's what's causing the problem to begin with. I guess ZOS could trim back API access for such add-ons. They've done it before.

I don't think that's what he means. Since players couldn't get stuff like actual decent filters or text search through the default UI, everybody turned to add-ons, and one of the best is Master Merchant, which goes above and beyond what the average player required. Now everyone has an advanced market analysis tool. ZOS have been completely deaf to legitimate concerns about the lack of some features in the default UI, and this is one of the consequences.

By the way, Minion reports that Awesome Guild Store has 88k+ downloads and Master Merchant has 66k+. That's at least 66 THOUSAND players (maybe a little less, discounting repeated downloads) who felt ZOS' UI was insufficient.

MM does something different than affect the text search from my use. It doesn't change the UI for text search... or am I missing a feature? Master Merchant includes things that aren't available in any MMO from a default perspective as far as market analysis. So I don't think that for that particular thing that ZOS is to blame. This isn't to say that the interface doesn't need work... it does. But that's conflating two issues.

This is correct. MM doesn't fix the guild store interface, AwesomeGuildStore does. I initially installed Shopkeeper, later replaced with MM, only to get info about what items I sold - ZOS definitely is to blame for that. Tbh, I don't need any other MM functionalities. Price check is very useful, but I could do without it and I'm not 100% sure I'd go out looking for it if it wasn't bundled with the other thing I do want.

AwesomeGuildStore on its own doesn't affect the economy negatively.

You're right, I was describing the wrong add-on. I installed MM to be able to see what I was selling and where, which is impossible to do unless you keep tabs on all your listings and check them as they disappear from the store. The other features are from Awesome Guild Store, another invaluable add-on that should've been part of the UI from scratch.

Eivar · May 2015

tbh i vendor all whites, decon all green+ and only sell set gear pieces/exceptional jewelry/ and motifs on guild stores, because of this my social guild has a guild bank chock full of crafting materials.

Hypertionb14_ESO · May 2015

MM effectively standardizes the prices in the same way a AH would..

if all guild stores are priced competitively, then there is no point in them being separate, and simply continues hurt the people who cant get into those elite style guilds or simply dont want to.

the closed market is now open and standardized... basically was going to happen no matter what because thats how these things work.

wrlifeboil · May 2015

maryriv wrote: »

Robotmafia wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

At this point I vend all equipment that isn't purple, or a v12 or higher piece from a decent set.

I just can't bother with trying to sell some crap piece for 20g higher than I can vend it for.

The game gives out way to much loot. We need more legitimate gold sinks.

they could raise repair costs

That would be a good start.

Because op says he can't sell his goods, increasing repair bills would help players buy more goods!? What kind of logic is that? Oh, right, many are from EU where they make no sense on economic in general (see: austerity programs during a recession or depression).

Suru · May 2015

maryriv wrote: »

Cheaper than at cost? nty I'll continue to vend.

everytthing is overpriced in guldstores because in guildstores, no one ask questions and people just choose to get ripped or not if they REALLLY need or want an item quickly.

SteveCampsOut · May 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

If it's red you've overpriced it...

I can price it green and watch it turn red all thanks to Master Merchant!

WebBull · May 2015

I would buy more stuff if I could find it quickly and easily. The current system is terrible and nothing more than a time sink.

newtinmpls · May 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Currently MM is constantly downtrending everything because the social condition is to always price lower than listed to "sell first".

I look around and figure what it's worth (time spent and so on) and price accordingly. I don't try to automatically undersell, as I can't be on every day and don't want to 'sell out' and have too few listings....so it's a balance.

timidobserver · May 2015

Amsel_McKay wrote: »

Master Merchant is to blame... If your item is red people dont buy... and even by a little I test this all the time making the same item sometimes 1g more and it will never sell where as the other item will sell in less than an hour.

It depends on the item. For stuff that is high in demand, it doesn't apply as much. However, for stuff that has plenty of supply, you want your price to not be in the red. Overall, MM has made it a bit harder to make large sums gold, but it is still possible.

My only problem with MM is showing how much gold people are making. I don't really want people seeing my stats, but it is more of a minor dislike than a major issue.

Drazhar14 · May 2015

Probably because most people have no interest in running back and forth between 100+ kiosks to find items.

Vahrokh · May 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

maryriv wrote: »

Everything is way to easy to get in this game, the economy is tanking.

I have spent 60 days played on my main, 20 days played on my alt. I think I have done 150+ goldpledges, and 150+ DSA runs.

I have wanted two items in this game for over 2 months now, and I play 12-14 hours a day. And those items are the masters bow and valkyn skoria shoulders. I still dont have any of those.

so NO everything is not way to easy to get in this game. I have never worked harder for loot in my whole gaming life.

For those who never have had to work hard for their gear:

Strength + agility ring drop in Molten Core in Vanilla WoW: for most guilds it dropped *twice* a year tops (with constant farming) and in WoW the loot was shared, that is you got dozens of guys bidding on one drop. We called it "Guild breaker" because I witnessed more than one medium core guild break apart upon the consequences of the litigations about that ring or some raid / guild leaders who would just ninja it and leave the guild.

Jeremy · May 2015

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Probably because most people have no interest in running back and forth between 100+ kiosks to find items.

This is exactly why.