c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

j.murro2ub17_ESO wrote: »

My take on the reasoning for no AH is because of simply - gold sellers. With a centralized AH gold sellers WILL create bots and control the market in a way that they can make millions of gold to sell - for cash on some questionable website that have been known to also hack accounts by getting your log in information. There are too many problems associated with a centralized AH.

As a buyer - sure its more convenience, but as a seller your going to get screwed anyway because of all the undercutting the gold sellers will create.

I can't recall the last time I saw a Gold Seller in WoW.
Its well over 4 years since I saw one in LotRO.
Only saw two or three in WIldstar.

They all have Auction Houses.
Wildstar has an Auction House on a Megaserver (the world didn't end you know).

I reported 5 Gold Sellers yesterday in ESO.

All The Best

Odd, I still receive mail and tells from them in LotRO when I log in to chat with my old FS. Especially if I'm chatting from Bree. Not that anecdotes are valid depictions of the situation as a whole, though.

Despite a developer's best efforts there is absolutely no way to eliminate RWT.
The point is ESO will have them regardless, they can be reduced but not eliminated.
If properly implemented a centralized marketplace would not create much difference.

Agreed. Disagree on the impact however. As somebody currently without a Trade Guild I'd prefer to keep the gold sink/fountain balance we currently have without adjusting it, I find the gold sick attributed to the de-centralized market to be an adequate balance to the dliemma of choosing between a store or zone chat to sell my items. I understand that it is not the exclusive answer to maintaining the economy, and that other people have their preferences, however I enjoy this system as is and I'm glad/hope ZOS has plans to continue using guild stores over a centralized market.

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

We all have differing opinions and that's fine. We all have changes we'd like to see implemented and that's great. This is the place to do it!

Personally, I almost didn't purchase ESO because there was no Auction House. My guild (looking for a new game to call home) talked me into it. After playing the game from launch until August, we decided to jump in and form a Trade Guild, since it was clear an AH wasn't coming.

We recruited like mad, we helped each other become better traders, we saved up and bid on Kiosks. For the rest of 2014, we continued to work to improve our store and sales.

6 months after forming, we felt we had a store that was ready to try for a Rawl location.

We have no membership fees, no minimums, no price requirements. We simply let the membership know what our weekly costs are and what is needed to break even - and we provide a multitude of ways to make that happen, with an emphasis on FUN. Contests, Events, Raffles, Auction Nights. We simply ask, that as a guild dedicated to trading, that everyone find a way to participate in revenue.

As I said - opinions and feedback are good things and are valuable to ZoS to know what the customer base is thinking.

But I'm really disappointed to view threads like this where wild, untrue accusations are tossed around as fact. Guilds that have chosen to focus on trade and to use the system as designed by ZoS are Drug Cartels? Price-fixers? Wildly rich robber-barons who want to keep all the wealth for themselves and conspire to lock everyone else out?

NO ONE "owns" a Kiosk. We all rent them for a week. If we place the highest bid on Monday, we get to rent it for another week. We work hard to raise funds for the bid and we are thankful if we win. Every Monday at 8A EDT, I hold my breath and hope our bid succeeds.

The location that a guild can afford, the revenue that a guild can generate is limited only by the amount of effort the guild wants to put forth. Whether you want to be a small, specialized, laid-back guild or a large, high revenue generating guild, the opportunity is there and kiosks are available.

Push for changes all you want. That's a good thing - may the best ideas win! But why sling unfounded and unsubstantiated insults at other players/guilds? Why not focus on convincing ZoS? The truth is that most GM's and Officers (Trade Guilds or otherwise) dedicate huge amounts of their personal time with the sole intention of helping their members enjoy the game and the guild.

As elf referenced, there is a collection of Trading Guilds who have reached out to Zenimax and asked for numerous changes to the Trading system including:

- More Kiosks
- Permissions to conceal bids before they process (to stop bid-spying)
- Removing bids for specific kiosks and instead bidding on the city (top 'x' bids win and get a random kiosk)
- Changing Kiosk turnover time to something closer to primetime so guilds can search for open kiosks if they lose
- Ability to retract a bid (changed mind, accidentally bid in wrong spot, etc)
- Ability to place a back-up bid (if you lose your first choice, you have a shot at your second)

..and many more suggestions. These aren't the kind of feature requests that a 'cartel' hell-bent on holding everyone else back ask for.

This group isn't just the 'elite' - it's open to any guild with a focus on trading.

In addition to helping my guild succeed, I enjoy helping *other* guilds succeed. I'm always willing to provide advice / ideas to other Trade GMs getting started. Reach out any time! That same kindness from other Trade Guild GMs helped us better our guild.

I'm not aware of anyone who thinks the trading system is perfect as-is. It never will be. But if we'd put more focus on reasonable and constructive feedback instead of tearing each other down, perhaps we can get good changes over time?

Stop laughing. One can dream!

-H

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

I enjoy the current system and would dislike to see it changed. (Note: That is not me saying it's stupid - as with many responses to disagreement seem to have been seen in this thread. It's merely a preference.)

hiyde wrote: »

The location that a guild can afford, the revenue that a guild can generate is limited only by the amount of effort the guild wants to put forth. Whether you want to be a small, specialized, laid-back guild or a large, high revenue generating guild, the opportunity is there and kiosks are available.

I don't want to be, or want to need to be, any of those things.

I just want to be able to sell my stuff, on my terms, when I feel like it.

All The Best

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

I enjoy the current system and would dislike to see it changed. (Note: That is not me saying it's stupid - as with many responses to disagreement seem to have been seen in this thread. It's merely a preference.)

I think the system is different but on a personal level i play with friends only and they are off and on.
So lone wolf is my play style and i prefer not to be in guilds i think thats my problem.

If the system stays i would like to see a trade hall in each main city where people like me can buy slots for 20,000 gold and increasing in price. So i can drop off and head back out otherwise i would like to see garretts idea put in.


What do you think @BBSooner ?

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

I don't want to be, or want to need to be, any of those things.

I just want to be able to sell my stuff, on my terms, when I feel like it.

Yes, you've made that very clear. And perhaps changes will come that will address your concerns.

Until then, it's up to you whether you choose to participate in the existing system or not. And that's fine.

Glurin wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

@nastuug could you please make a clear and constructive post about how a global auction house would prove beneficial to both the player community and the game?

If you could outline the pros and cons of each system, add some thoughts on how issues which might unfold could be overcome.

Then we might be able to see what you problems with the current system are. Right now your posts seem more like you're upset others are more successful than you are, that corporations are evil, drug cartels play ESO.

You have spent more time insulting members of the community and making baseless accusations in this thread than actually helping players who want a global auction house post a relevant argument. As I posted earlier, we're not the ones you need to convince, ZOS are. How are you posts achieving that, or are you in this thread just to troll people and argue the same points over and over without giving any facts or evidence for your theories.

@Turelus Oh boy, you totally went there. Well, I've gone through more than enough constructive threads that have been created detailing how a global auction house could help enhance current trading process for the majority of users.

I'm not upset that others are more successful. Perhaps if you read all my posts, you would know that I'm part of a trading guild and sell my pixel junk every day. Sure, my bank isn't filled with billions of gold, but I do alright. Yes, I'm directly comparing them to evil corporations and drug cartels. Forcing members to pay a "Guild Membership fee" on top of taxes, even dropping way more than needed gold from their own personal account just to lock prime merchant locations down. Hmm, sounds like the typical evil corporation we have all come to know and love...

I have not directly insulted members of the community. I've never mentioned a single person or guild name in my "accusations," so cross that load of crap off your list.

I'm not trolling; I'm fighting the derps defending an antiquated trading system that hinders the majority of players from partaking in what should be an easy-to-use economy/trading system.

So you think it's ok for a GM and officers to pay out of their own pocket to retain a kiosk location, but asking members to pay a fee in order to retain these locations all of a sudden converts the scenario from justice to preying on innocent guild members? Doesn't everyone in the guild have access to the same store at the same location? Doesn't everyone in the guild have the exact same opportunity to make gold as the GM and officers? So what you are saying is that the GM and officers should be the only ones to pay out of their pocket just so the rest of the guild can take advantage of their kindness? Why do you wrongly presume that trading guild GM/Officers have more gold than average joe on their roster?

You arguments do not make any sense. As someone above mentioned, it appears as though you simply have some kind of issue with any kind of structured environment or that which you don't understand.

Just like a witch hunt.

• Can't search Guild Traders without third party addon support
• Must travel to many different NPC's to hunt for specific pixel junk
• Inability to sell anything unless you're part of a large trading guild
• Inability for small-to-medium guilds to compete to sell the same exact pixel junk

Yep, total witch hunt...

• That's the UI. Has absolutely nothing to do with not being an AH.
• Creating a chance to actually get a fair price for something or find a good deal at another location as opposed to an endless series of undercuts.
• Total ***. You do NOT have to be part of a large trade guild to sell anything.
• Also total ***. There are vendors all over the place they can bid on and they can indeed snag a vendor in prime locations from time to time. There is no cartel telling them what to sell their goods for either.

No cartels. No elite corporate conspiracy. No evil GM secret meetings dictating prices for goods. Yes, your campaign is a witch hunt.

Hmm, you seem to be having trouble as is noted above.

1. Yes, it's an issue with the UI. In case you missed it, the UI is part of the issue with the current trading system...
2. Major inconvenience which makes the game feel more like a chore than more like, you know, a game...
3. Actually, it's not "total cow feces," kind sir.
4. Also not "total cow feces," kind sir.

Pro tip: You should really stop cursing within your posts. I can see exactly what you type, and it's quite offensive, sir.

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

I enjoy the current system and would dislike to see it changed. (Note: That is not me saying it's stupid - as with many responses to disagreement seem to have been seen in this thread. It's merely a preference.)

I think the system is different but on a personal level i play with friends only and they are off and on.
So lone wolf is my play style and i prefer not to be in guilds i think thats my problem.

If the system stays i would like to see a trade hall in each main city where people like me can buy slots for 20,000 gold and increasing in price. So i can drop off and head back out otherwise i would like to see garretts idea put in.


What do you think @BBSooner ?

I would say that simply being in a casual trade guild with that specific chat turned off would yield the same results without the pricetag, so I wouldn't find that it appealed to me, especially since as of late I have 3 open guild slots. But I understand that is just a work around and not a true (albiet less expensive) solution. Though it might be your preference for the change, I'd prefer keeping the current system intact.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Victus wrote: »

- Suggested a compromise from the beginning that prevents this.
[r.u.srs]doyouread.gif[/r.u.srs]

It wasn't thought out at the time, and it could still use some work.
...But it's there. Clearly spelled out.

No removal of the current system.
No price fixing.
No gold selling.
No controlling the market.

Guilds with vendors would still take priority and have the most influence in the market.

We are willing to compromise. Most of your side is simply:
"Git gud or GTFO."
I'm paraphrasing, here... Obviously.

I'm going to paraphrase this too:
the image was just lighthearted conspiracy theorist humor.

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

I enjoy the current system and would dislike to see it changed. (Note: That is not me saying it's stupid - as with many responses to disagreement seem to have been seen in this thread. It's merely a preference.)

I think the system is different but on a personal level i play with friends only and they are off and on.
So lone wolf is my play style and i prefer not to be in guilds i think thats my problem.

If the system stays i would like to see a trade hall in each main city where people like me can buy slots for 20,000 gold and increasing in price. So i can drop off and head back out otherwise i would like to see garretts idea put in.


What do you think @BBSooner ?

I would say that simply being in a casual trade guild with that specific chat turned off would yield the same results without the pricetag, so I wouldn't find that it appealed to me, especially since as of late I have 3 open guild slots. But I understand that is just a work around and not a true (albiet less expensive) solution. Though it might be your preference for the change, I'd prefer keeping the current system intact.

I should point out i plan to play on the consoles so i really would prefer not to jump on the mic.
I loooove the idea of chilling on the couch chilling but without some way to drop off like i would with an ah this makes things alot harder.

Thoughts?

@BBSooner

nastuug wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Victus wrote: »

- Suggested a compromise from the beginning that prevents this.
[r.u.srs]doyouread.gif[/r.u.srs]

It wasn't thought out at the time, and it could still use some work.
...But it's there. Clearly spelled out.

No removal of the current system.
No price fixing.
No gold selling.
No controlling the market.

Guilds with vendors would still take priority and have the most influence in the market.

We are willing to compromise. Most of your side is simply:
"Git gud or GTFO."
I'm paraphrasing, here... Obviously.

This
We are willing to compromise. Most of your side is simply:
"Git gud or GTFO."
I'm paraphrasing, here... Obviously.

Totally willing to compromise.

nastuug wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Victus wrote: »

- Suggested a compromise from the beginning that prevents this.
[r.u.srs]doyouread.gif[/r.u.srs]

It wasn't thought out at the time, and it could still use some work.
...But it's there. Clearly spelled out.

No removal of the current system.
No price fixing.
No gold selling.
No controlling the market.

Guilds with vendors would still take priority and have the most influence in the market.

We are willing to compromise. Most of your side is simply:
"Git gud or GTFO."
I'm paraphrasing, here... Obviously.

This
We are willing to compromise. Most of your side is simply:
"Git gud or GTFO."
I'm paraphrasing, here... Obviously.

Totally willing to compromise.

Only bbsooner is willing to talk about comprise so far the rest follow the above statement but we are making progress.

Heromofo wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The only flaw I see is to guild stores, but they could all be what makes up the auction house.
Instead of a general auction house, like most games, it could be made out of guild stores and work so that you would be buying just like you bought from that guild. It would also decrease, but not eliminate, the need for a vendor.

It wouldn't hurt the social aspect either. How would it be any different than running around to the various guild stores like we already do? It wouldn't. It would be more convenient for sellers (guilds only) and buyers.

Edit:
Ideally this system would need to incorporate the current guild traders in a way that does not harm the current system.
Trading should not be limited to end-game, competitive content only. This should, however, remain viable.

It could work similar to the following:
- The AH would include guild stores.
- Those with vendors would take priority, in order of the bid amount placed.
- Priority items would appear before any others, lower bidders (kiosks/ vendors) goods would only be viewed by going to their store or buy the higher bidders item(s) selling out/ not available.
- Searching items would have to include multiple factors, such by text and/ or the level and quality of the item. This prevents lower bidders and free-for-all traders from being excluded from the listings.

Example: I want a piece of light armor that is both level 30 and rare. If both the highest and lowest bidders from the current system have an item that fits this search than I would see the highest bidders' item(s) first. If they do not than I would see the item from whomever is the highest bidder who meets this search. If none of the bidders meet this search than I would see the free-for-all players.

This keeps the current competition and relevance of the current system.

So people against us is this a good comprise to this argument?.

NO

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Introducing an AH into ESO would not "ruin the in-game economy"... You can't ruin something that does not functionally exist.

What an AH would do is actually create a functional in-game economy.

Anyone who thinks otherwise simply does not understand how economies work.

Shhhh, a healthy dose reality has no place here.

All The Best

Hulf they have to wake up sooner or later they are just a stubborn lot.
They don't want a comprise or discussion they just go back to " learn to play or get lost".

Writing off valid opinions that you happen to not agree with as stubborn or in need of 'waking up' is pretty disappointing. Surely this thread could use less shots at people in lieu of active discussion.

Well with each comprise offered they are shot down just as quick as " stupid " personally i love Garretts comprise so what do you think?.

I enjoy the current system and would dislike to see it changed. (Note: That is not me saying it's stupid - as with many responses to disagreement seem to have been seen in this thread. It's merely a preference.)

I think the system is different but on a personal level i play with friends only and they are off and on.
So lone wolf is my play style and i prefer not to be in guilds i think thats my problem.

If the system stays i would like to see a trade hall in each main city where people like me can buy slots for 20,000 gold and increasing in price. So i can drop off and head back out otherwise i would like to see garretts idea put in.


What do you think @BBSooner ?

I would say that simply being in a casual trade guild with that specific chat turned off would yield the same results without the pricetag, so I wouldn't find that it appealed to me, especially since as of late I have 3 open guild slots. But I understand that is just a work around and not a true (albiet less expensive) solution. Though it might be your preference for the change, I'd prefer keeping the current system intact.

I should point out i plan to play on the consoles so i really would prefer not to jump on the mic.
I loooove the idea of chilling on the couch chilling but without some way to drop off like i would with an ah this makes things alot harder.

Thoughts?

@BBSooner

I would be of the opinion that entire systems shouldn't be added to the game to fit the need of a specific platform of play. Since the forseeable future has console releasing while the Guild Store system is intact I'd suggest joining a casual trade guild and muting the guild chat (though there may be no need if there is no guild chat either).