c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

Surprisingly, this has been a very cordial conversation thus far.

Not sure how I feel about your suggestion though.

@ZOS Help us out here! How can we make this better without destroying the economy or taking advantage of other players?

Something has to be done to make both sides happy yim do you think my suggestion has any merit?
Or another solution idea?

Buying slots in an AH?
I'd like a little more detail, if possible.

Any form of free-for-all market will upset those using the current system.
The solution would have to be including it in such a way that it either utilizes or does not interfere with the system presently in place. There's few ways this could be done.

I think the best solution would be to make the auction house include guild stores with vendors and give them a priority, where their goods appear over anyone else's. So if I was looking for a specific item I would only see the highest priority items, those sold by vendors, and only if there were none of those would I see those of other players.

These items would have to factor in the level as well, as I would not be happy to only see items that are beyond what I can use. This is my issue with the current system, low-level gear is practically non-existent in these shops.

The second concept, but less favored, is to make it available ONLY to those with vendors. Making the system work exactly how it is but eliminating the need to travel everywhere to compare prices.

DAM garrett maybe you should be working for zos

+++1 from me

Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »

Because the current top trade guild set the prices, and they like being able to overcharge the new players who don't know any better. An auction house would bring them competition.

Well thats why we must fight to even the field people bag ah for lowering prices well i bag eso guild vendors for fixing prices lol

Perhaps you have never heard of Amazon?

Sorry, couldn't resist

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

For convenience? Well, yeah. Last time I checked this was 2015, and we all work our ass off just to come home and relax for a few hours in whatever way suits us. This is a game, not a job. I shouldn't feel like I have to punch in for a five hour shift then punch out for bed. Log on a few times a week, sell some derpgear, log off...

You're right. It is an entirely different area of the game. And currently it's limited to the very few super elitist trading guilds, and that's it.

FYI, stop talking like you built some empire. You hopped in a trade guild and sold some junk. What we all want is the ability to buy and sell our junk within an easy, simple, and searchable application.

Humm... sorry but it was a big work (game, actually) and we successful traders are proud of it just like others are proud of their kill counters or their leaderboards or whatever else in the game.

I remind you that you don't HAVE to trade at all.

And please explain why and how it's limited to a few elitist guilds because that is plain wrong in my experience. Everyone can trade, join a trading guild and join the fun.

Yuup. They're just drumming up conspiracy theories and crackpot ideologies that just because your a v14 and in a trade guild with a kiosk in Rawl'kha were all involved in some price fixing ring LOL!!

Most of the truly large and established trade guilds I'm in message their members weekly encouraging them to lower prices and remain competitive which is the exact opposite of your fantastical imaginations. Cause that's how we make sales!

News flash:
It's already a free market and most of us who have been here since the beginning and have the good stuff to sell are just choosing what we want to sell it for, take it or leave it. We have competitive prices with other guilds and eventually a addon like master merchant will quickly tell you what an average price should be. There is already healthy supply and demand. There's doesn't need to be a million participants in the economy to achieve this. Although as a buyer I could see why you'd want that because it would hyperdeflate the prices to rock bottom.

I assume those who are new and are still buying things are just coping out and taking the lazy/cheap way of pressuring sellers to lower prices with the Global AH for there own self-serving purposes.

Just cause your new or casual doesn't entitle you to free/cheap stuff via an ultra convenient AH. It's the exact opposite actually. ZOS wants to retain value for items, this is how they choose to do it. It works and it works well. As a seller, yes, I prefer to have an economy where things have value and that is what ESO is providing. Again, I still have to price competitively to sell things. Coming here to QQ about price fixing is just pitiful. Play the game like the rest of us sellers and go get it yourself if you don't like the prices.

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

For anyone who has EVER studied economics, the trade guild system is total and complete anathema to building a good economy. The only people really supporting it are the people gouging others with prices that are beyond what a free market with prices dictated by supply and demand would lead to.

However, the trade guild system does dampen the opportunity for gold sellers to have much impact on the game.

That's the only positive aspect of the current system, no matter what idiotic rationalizations are made to the contrary. Usually, what we hear from the sellers is that the existing system keeps prices from going "too low". Anyone who has EVER studied economics knows that if demand is too low and supply too high, prices SHOULD go low and sellers should find a different commodity to sell.

But you'll get nothing but specious arguments from the advocates of the trade guilds, the guys goiuging everyone else.

The solution? NEVER buy from the trade guilds. NEVER. NOT EVER. They will eventually go out of business. They are their own worst enemies, so force them to lower their prices to something reasonable or go out of business.

And maybe when the majority of them go out of business, ZOS will get its head out of *** defilade and implement a proper auction house.

When you're on a mega server, with millions of ppl in a Global AH, items meant to be rare (by developer choice) no longer are rare and become hyperdeflated. What is so hard to grasp?

Edit: It's set up this way so casuals who actually take the effort to play the game and get the item themselves have a chance. Otherwise the drop rates would need to be .0000000000000001% and no one would get it and then you'd see hyperinflation.

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

For anyone who has EVER studied economics, the trade guild system is total and complete anathema to building a good economy. The only people really supporting it are the people gouging others with prices that are beyond what a free market with prices dictated by supply and demand would lead to.

However, the trade guild system does dampen the opportunity for gold sellers to have much impact on the game.

That's the only positive aspect of the current system, no matter what idiotic rationalizations are made to the contrary. Usually, what we hear from the sellers is that the existing system keeps prices from going "too low". Anyone who has EVER studied economics knows that if demand is too low and supply too high, prices SHOULD go low and sellers should find a different commodity to sell.

But you'll get nothing but specious arguments from the advocates of the trade guilds, the guys goiuging everyone else.

The solution? NEVER buy from the trade guilds. NEVER. NOT EVER. They will eventually go out of business. They are their own worst enemies, so force them to lower their prices to something reasonable or go out of business.

And maybe when the majority of them go out of business, ZOS will get its head out of *** defilade and implement a proper auction house.

amen brother

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

The current system makes even less sense, though.
Your guild hires someone, at a ridiculous cost, to sell your wares. Why don't they steal everything? They're millionaires, why don't they retire? How do they contain all those items in such a small stall?

...Shall I continue?
The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

It's not everybody who's against an auction house, in the last poll it was fractionally over half. I think it was 48% who wanted one, and in the other recent poll only about a quarter wanted the present guild kiosk unchanged.

I personally think the current system is utterly broken except for the few wealthy high level members of the handful of top trading guilds, they're the ones most opposed to changing the system. I'd prefer a factional auction house but would happily settle for a major change to the existing system that retained the guild kiosk concept but opened it up to players at all levels irrespective of whether they belonged to a guild or not.

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

"easier" carry a very big weight for many people (yes, myself included)

The fact that you NEED to spend time in an MMO in order to get the best price for a certain item, browsing through a system with NO name-search function, is a bad thing.

To add salt to the wound, you get these competition between the guilds where the bid prices are so astronomical that smaller (read: the majority) guilds won't even dare to dream to bid on some traders...

Then you end up with zone chat flooded with WTS/WTB spams...

ZOS got a great idea, and like you, I can appreciate that idea. It's brilliant in fact to have it in an MMO.

But they execute it poorly when judging the players' expectation and usability.

Now, I'm part of a big enough guild that it's OK. I can play with the game. It's still fun. But I can also understand the frustration of many MANY (less vocal?) others who are frustrated with the lack of a centralized trading system.

Snit wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself

I'm in one of the top Trade Guilds in NA. I have not exchanged 10 words with anyone in it since joining. There is zero social commitment. I have, however, made quite a lot of coin using the Rawl Kha kiosk that guild provides.

As for guilds that can't afford a kiosk... I'll repeat a good sports quote, applicable to any player who does not appreciate being benched or cut: "If you don't like it, play better." Trading is competitive content in TESO.
[/qoute]
That quote does seem to represent ZOS stance on this matter and i understand
But its still a very silly idea.

Cuyler wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

q

Wyietsayon wrote: »

You mean I can't go to my small local market and order every single thing in existence? I have to actually go to other stores to get some items?
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS!?!

IRL economics do not apply.
Obviously you cannot go to a store and order everything that exists.
I won't even begin to list all the real world rules this game breaks. It's fantasy.

Yet you QQ about not having real world supply and demand, competition of millions of ppl. I guess whatever fits your argument.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The fact is, this is a game. Making something over-complicated, exclusive, and inconvenient does not make any sense and is only beneficial to a portion of the game's customers.

You fail to see how this allows the devs to keep higher drop rates thereby including more casuals into getting a rare piece from the gear grind. Again by actual effort, not by simply sifting through a Global AH.

Allow me to re-phrase.
It's not a matter of IRL economics, your post included IRL limitations in economics.
IRL, I can go to the internet and do exactly what you just said.
IRL, previous to the internet, I could order from a catalog.
IRL, previous to the catalog, I could go to a specialist for custom work.
- Note: This can, technically, be done but is just as inconvenient and requires shouting out to strangers rather than going to an NPC specialist (who already owns a store that specializes in the craft).

If you wish to use real-world limitations than you must also acknowledge real-world options that are missing. I would be more than willing to sacrifice an AH for a catalog that produces the same effect, or for NPCs to be able to do custom work. Although these are lore-friendly and realistic, you will object because this breaks the current system and creates competition and a profit loss for you.

Be honest, this has nothing to do with lore. It's a matter of greed and selfishness.

It's funny to read 200-2015 logic and then ppl yell at ZOS for killing lore

I'm pretty sure modern web based examples don't apply back then

driosketch wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I am fighting hard for the auction house as the current system is floored if anyone here as seen my threads part 5 covers this well.

In it i point out how it screws over all by the large guilds because the little guys cannot afford 1.5 million for a vendor.

I'm in a small guild and we manage to have a kiosk more often than not. We do move around alot, and we've never spent a million for one, not even close. Not even for two separate stretches we spent in Elden Root. We've even gotten unhired traders for 100g. Last one was in an outlaw refuge that we held for a second week with a 23k bid. And I usually manage to have decent sales even from the out of the way traders. Hell, and not everyone in the guild even uses the store because we are not actually a trade guild. Often we don't even have 100 items listed total. So there are definitely opportunities out there for small guilds, it just requires one or more dedicated members handling the location scouting and bidding.

Pretty much any start up guild of 50 active players could establish themselves at a single trader in a couple weeks, and recruiting near your kiosk, could work your way up to one of the clusters. And should you be a good trade community, could eventually steal spots from the long established guilds.

I think people get it in their heads that something is too hard that they talk themselves into quitting before they even try.

My guild is relatively small as well, and we have managed a vedor as well.
It's not a matter of being able to sell your wares, it's a matter of buying them.

The current system only benefits sellers and is a massive inconvenience to buyers. Especially for low level characters, who will literally find nothing in a guild store. Even ones located in the FIRST area.

Victus wrote: »

I will also point out while I do like and enjoy the current system as it is set up, I agree some UI improvements would be very welcome.

On this, I think we all agree.

I enjoy trading in TESO and I think it's an excellent system overall. I prefer it to the WoW or GW2 models. However, that is largely because I have the right addons loaded. Without those addons, the base trading interface would need vast improvement to achieve a score of "still pretty awful."

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Not everyone is against an auction house

as quoted..