Why is everybody against an auction house?

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

How about the fact that you can't search for items by text? Or perhaps that you must visit tens of merchants across the lands just to hunt for a single item?

Most UI pains can be fixed by getting add-ons and as for hunting a single item it depends what you're looking for.

Cool, you can go ahead and stop right there. There are limits to being forced to download addons. So you're saying that we should accept a flawed UI, especially in one of the most vital categories, and just download an addon to solve the problem?

I am not saying you should accept flawed UI, ZOS needs to do a damn big overhaul on the UI.

However until that time I am not going to complain it's unworkable and demand drastic changes to game features to solve UI issues which there are numerous add-ons developed to overcome it. TBH even when ZOS does address the UI issues they will probably stay with the add-on because it's so good.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info695-AwesomeGuildStore.html

This eliminated most the search pains for the guild stores (not all of them as the core is flawed).

Additionally try to get into multiple trade guilds, quality ones if you can and you're able to search and find almost all the items you need.

Speaking of which... if people want to see the UI fixed, check out the link in my sig

. For convenience: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/160517

Yinmaigao · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

If you don't "play the trading game" you cannot sell your goods ? Well too bad, but if I don't play PVP I don't get PVP gear either, you cannot have it all.

Oh, then what is the deal with people spamming to "sell AP"?

You can buy just about anything with gold, so having a corner of the market that is relevant in all aspects of gameplay is not good for the life of the game.

Just waiting for it to go the route of WoW "selling SO runs, 100k per, come get your free loot/quest completion!"

Sylvyr · May 2015

Don't matter how much quelling happens. They are too busy working on console release.

Turelus · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

Not at all, I currently compete with the best traders in the EU mega server by being in the top trade guilds, I didn't start that way either. I was in average guilds with outline merchants but took the time to talk to other players, find those who were in better guilds and work my way up into ones where I now have better turn over for my items.

My issue with the change is it's making it more like other games for the convenience of those who don't want to put effort into reaching that level in the game. As other have said trading in this game is another playable system rather than something everyone does because it's so easily accessible.

If you would like to join some of the top trade guilds on the EU server just let me know and I will see about getting you invites. However these guilds require you to sell good wares and regally or be removed, that's how they keep their wares and money up.

If you're looking for somewhere to sell some gold materials or high demand items then these are also done via quick sales in any trade guild or Craglorn zone chat.

Why I post in these threads from time to time and am against a global auction house is because most people don't realise they're asking for the removal of a whole type of competitive gameplay running alongside PVE and PVP.
Players who are travelling around the world buying low and selling high, guilds competing to be known as the best trade guilds and willing to fight to earn that name and the millions of gold that comes with it.

I don't see why an entire area of the game should be removed because many players of the game feel their lack or effort or lazy gaming style isn't fair.

And with that off to the pub... will check in the thread later.

Heromofo · May 2015

Just talking to my mate who i convinced to give eso a go on the consoles as we use to play wow together.
He is aware of how it works on eso and how the console version works.
He brought up something i did not think of " how will this work for consoles considering most are casual players"
"Who dont have the time to for it"

He is referring to on wow as a casual player he could drop off his items for sale at the ah and leave it.
Now this is possible in eso but one you are forced into guilds thats not good for us then you only have up to 500 people that may buy the items instead of 1000s and 1000s of players. In eso if you want more of a base you need to get your guild bidding and farming gold to compete from 500k to a million on average. These are things that will be a problem on the console version especially.

Heromofo · May 2015

Double post

Yinmaigao · May 2015

I understand that some people see this as a "fun playstyle" and maybe I am in the minority here, but I am very opposed to, and find it unsettling, for people to willingly try their best to rip people off or barter with people to get a better price with the sole purpose of flipping it for a larger profit.

I hate trying to sell an item just to have someone talk me down because "I really need that item!" 10 minutes later I see them trying to sell it at a higher price than I originally asked for.

I don't make that mistake anymore... and it is sad, I want to help new players, but these parasites ruin it for them by gouging.

Victus · May 2015

Ok I am generally tired of these threads, but had to chime in to dispel a point of hyperbole (surprise, surprise) thrown around plenty so far.

I consider myself more of a "lone wolf" player. I have a RL friends guild I am in, a defunct guild from release days, and a declining PvP guild.
I am not part of a "major" trading guild. I am part of one trading guild that is able to usually get a vendor in Wayrest.
I have one slot open hopefully for a good PvE focused guild.
I am not making tons of money, but am able to sell a decent amount of stuff for profit.
I don't go around playing the game of trying to maximize profits by being a part of many trade guilds, and shopping around constantly buying low and selling high.
I enjoy the current system as is.

AlnilamE · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

Actually, I will not be "forced" to do anything. If they ever institute an AH, it will make what is now a fun way to offer things I don't need to other players a pretty boring endeavour. Which means I will not do it and just vendor all my loot instead (after offering it to guildies, of course).

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

J
He is referring to on wow as a casual player he could drop off his items for sale at the ah and leave it.
Now this is possible in eso but one you are forced into guilds thats not good for us then you only have up to 500 people that may buy the items instead of 1000s and 1000s of players. In eso if you want more of a base you need to get your guild bidding and farming gold to compete from 500k to a million on average. These are things that will be a problem on the console version especially.

I don't understand why people playing on console would have more or less time for playing than people on PC ? Is there a research or a study to back up this assumption ? (other than just your best friend's situation ?)

And if people have no time for trading or do not want to trade I'd like to remind that there is absolutely no obligation to trade at all. You make enough gold questing for your daily repair needs. You can easily loot or craft appropriated stuff for your level and also make decent gold (not much, but enough) by selling excess stuff to NPC vendors.

nastuug · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

My issue with the change is it's making it more like other games for the convenience of those who don't want to put effort into reaching that level in the game. As other have said trading in this game is another playable system rather than something everyone does because it's so easily accessible

Why I post in these threads from time to time and am against a global auction house is because most people don't realise they're asking for the removal of a whole type of competitive gameplay running alongside PVE and PVP.
Players who are travelling around the world buying low and selling high, guilds competing to be known as the best trade guilds and willing to fight to earn that name and the millions of gold that comes with it.

I don't see why an entire area of the game should be removed because many players of the game feel their lack or effort or lazy gaming style isn't fair.

And with that off to the pub... will check in the thread later.

For convenience? Well, yeah. Last time I checked this was 2015, and we all work our ass off just to come home and relax for a few hours in whatever way suits us. This is a game, not a job. I shouldn't feel like I have to punch in for a five hour shift then punch out for bed. Log on a few times a week, sell some derpgear, log off...

You're right. It is an entirely different area of the game. And currently it's limited to the very few super elitist trading guilds, and that's it.

FYI, stop talking like you built some empire. You hopped in a trade guild and sold some junk. What we all want is the ability to buy and sell our junk within an easy, simple, and searchable application.

BBSooner · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There is actually a very active and bustling economy if you pay attention. 3 of the trade guilds I am in turn over in excess of 25 million gold of sales per week and merchanting gameplay is very fun. I don't know how you could find yourself shouting to sell things all day.... you should be listing most things on guild stores and zone chat advertising items you want to get the best offer on or that are rarer and people may not be checking kiosks for regularly, all while playing the game like always.

I don't spend more than 2 minutes ever porting around to advertise, when I even do instead of just selling where I am over the course of a day or two. The guild store and kiosk system serves to segment the economy instead of having 2+ million players all using one npc to buy and sell with (it essentially becomes a vendor, why even have trade then?), as well as allow for arbitrage, resale, scarcity, and help hedge against price fixing a bit as there's no immediate and easy way to buy and corner the market on goods, whereas larger or even global ones can have that done easily enough and are just a matter of having enough gold to scale to do so. There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

Agreed. I'm glad I could just quote you instead of having to type out my opinion for the Nth time.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Oh, then what is the deal with people spamming to "sell AP"?

Not sure how that works, I see people doing it too but I don't know these mechanics tbh. However, I am sure that it has absolutely nothing to do with AH vs. kiosks.

Yinmaigao wrote: »

You can buy just about anything with gold, so having a corner of the market that is relevant in all aspects of gameplay is not good for the life of the game.

Just waiting for it to go the route of WoW "selling SO runs, 100k per, come get your free loot/quest completion!"

It probably already happens that people *pay* groups to carry them through instances for achievement, loot or leader boards positions. I've never witnessed it but it could well happen. And then, so what ? That's an issue between the people who offer the service and those who are ready to buy it.

Are you actually against an AH or against players getting rich in game currency ? Because I fail to understand how an AH would prevent good traders to make big money there too... they would probably even have it easier with an AH to dominate entier market segments since they would not have to run all over the place to check other sellers...

Yinmaigao · May 2015

I don't think I've seen anyone post this yet (if so, I apologize)

But since you are limited to 30 auctions per guild, a lot of people don't bother putting any low-level gear or non-set gear on their vendors since they can make a better profit with materials/recipes.

While this is kind-of a niche market, as most crafted items are better, but first-time players may not have the skillpoints to allocate towards professions (or have friends that can make them).

Yinmaigao · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Are you actually against an AH or against players getting rich in game currency ? Because I fail to understand how an AH would prevent good traders to make big money there too... they would probably even have it easier with an AH to dominate entier market segments since they would not ave to run all over the place to check other sellers...

I am not really for an AH, but I am against the kiosks if that makes sense...

What I am truly against is players abusing other players (especially players who don't know any better) in order to reap the benefits themselves.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

Again I don't understand... you loot more than enough non-set items to equip yourself decently at lower levels, so there is virtually no demand for these items anyway.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO · May 2015

It seems the number one concern is people who run or are a part of guilds with the best vendor locations. I can see how an AH may be damaging to these players.

Ideally, an AH would need to benefit both kinds of players. I feel the only way to do this is by comprising and making the centralized AH consist of only those who have purchased vendor locations.

This would keep these players relevant and prevent buyers from needing to run around to a dozen different locations. If it was implemented this way, would you be more inclined to agree? You would lose nothing and gain more potential customers. The competition would remain the same and the competition for prime locations would be the only thing to suffer. Which I believe is fine as this competition is ridiculous anyway.

Heromofo · May 2015

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

What about a comprise

WE keep the same system as now

BUT

in each main city a trade hall is added where you a player can buy slots for 10, 000 - 20, 000 gold each.
It acts like a auction house that you have to pay for slots.

So what do you guys say could this keep both sides happy?

Yinmaigao · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

Surprisingly, this has been a very cordial conversation thus far.

Not sure how I feel about your suggestion though.

@ZOS Help us out here! How can we make this better without destroying the economy or taking advantage of other players?

Sylvyr · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.

Not at all, I currently compete with the best traders in the EU mega server by being in the top trade guilds, I didn't start that way either. I was in average guilds with outline merchants but took the time to talk to other players, find those who were in better guilds and work my way up into ones where I now have better turn over for my items.

My issue with the change is it's making it more like other games for the convenience of those who don't want to put effort into reaching that level in the game. As other have said trading in this game is another playable system rather than something everyone does because it's so easily accessible.

If you would like to join some of the top trade guilds on the EU server just let me know and I will see about getting you invites. However these guilds require you to sell good wares and regally or be removed, that's how they keep their wares and money up.

If you're looking for somewhere to sell some gold materials or high demand items then these are also done via quick sales in any trade guild or Craglorn zone chat.

Why I post in these threads from time to time and am against a global auction house is because most people don't realise they're asking for the removal of a whole type of competitive gameplay running alongside PVE and PVP.
Players who are travelling around the world buying low and selling high, guilds competing to be known as the best trade guilds and willing to fight to earn that name and the millions of gold that comes with it.

I don't see why an entire area of the game should be removed because many players of the game feel their lack or effort or lazy gaming style isn't fair.

And with that off to the pub... will check in the thread later.

I see your point and am glad you are enjoying your mini-game within ESO.

I would like to point out that
1) Not everyone cares to play the same mini-game, at least not to the extent you do. Some people want to have a good way to buy and sell with other players that is simple and more effective than hawking wares in zone chat. Other than chat people are essentially forced to play the trading game.
2) Other aspects of the game have alternatives. If you like PvP you can go from level 10 to v14 just by PvPing. Don't like PvP you can go from 1 to v14 in PvE. As much as a like PvP imagine if everyone was pushed into it. Then call PvErs that complain those with "lazy gaming style".
3) It don't matter, as is becoming typical ZoS, they threw this out there, it's been out there for a long time, there's been complaining for a long time, seriously doubt it's going to be looked at. Don't like it? Live with it, or move to a game that better suits your style. Just sayin'.

Heromofo · May 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

Surprisingly, this has been a very cordial conversation thus far.

Not sure how I feel about your suggestion though.

@ZOS Help us out here! How can we make this better without destroying the economy or taking advantage of other players?

Something has to be done to make both sides happy yim do you think my suggestion has any merit?
Or another solution idea?

Yinmaigao · May 2015

Eh, I think the larger problem is the UI. Having a clutter of player vendors might make the problem worse.

Lack of a functional search system and no true way to see "real-time" transactions or comparisons of availability of certain items is a bit frustrating.

Having to spend 20ish minutes porting from location to location to check kiosks for one item, just to leave empty handed is not a fun way to spend your game time

Couple this with the already crippling inventory management problem, and a lot of the player base just vendors/deconstructs items rather than attempting to sell them.

nastuug · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

For convenience? Well, yeah. Last time I checked this was 2015, and we all work our ass off just to come home and relax for a few hours in whatever way suits us. This is a game, not a job. I shouldn't feel like I have to punch in for a five hour shift then punch out for bed. Log on a few times a week, sell some derpgear, log off...

You're right. It is an entirely different area of the game. And currently it's limited to the very few super elitist trading guilds, and that's it.

FYI, stop talking like you built some empire. You hopped in a trade guild and sold some junk. What we all want is the ability to buy and sell our junk within an easy, simple, and searchable application.

Humm... sorry but it was a big work (game, actually) and we successful traders are proud of it just like others are proud of their kill counters or their leaderboards or whatever else in the game.

I remind you that you don't HAVE to trade at all.

And please explain why and how it's limited to a few elitist guilds because that is plain wrong in my experience. Everyone can trade, join a trading guild and join the fun.

Heromofo · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

htoncic wrote: »

Coz it would supposedly destroy the economy that doesn't exist in the first place. I dunno, people are weird. Shouting WTS all day is better I guess.

There are a handful of minor positives to thousands of players big auction houses, but global ones are inevitably inferior. This system has more depth and is more intricate.

So I guess the ability for humans to browse and purchase goods over the Internet from all parts of the world is inferior to a handful of markets run by the equivalent of drug cartels?

[snip]
nas i felt that burn from here mate

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

c.p.garrett1993_ESO · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Yinmaigao wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

A Call For Cease Fire For 5 Minutes lol

Surprisingly, this has been a very cordial conversation thus far.

Not sure how I feel about your suggestion though.

@ZOS Help us out here! How can we make this better without destroying the economy or taking advantage of other players?

Something has to be done to make both sides happy yim do you think my suggestion has any merit?
Or another solution idea?

Buying slots in an AH?
I'd like a little more detail, if possible.

Any form of free-for-all market will upset those using the current system.
The solution would have to be including it in such a way that it either utilizes or does not interfere with the system presently in place. There's few ways this could be done.

I think the best solution would be to make the auction house include guild stores with vendors and give them a priority, where their goods appear over anyone else's. So if I was looking for a specific item I would only see the highest priority items, those sold by vendors, and only if there were none of those would I see those of other players.

These items would have to factor in the level as well, as I would not be happy to only see items that are beyond what I can use. This is my issue with the current system, low-level gear is practically non-existent in these shops.

The second concept, but less favored, is to make it available ONLY to those with vendors. Making the system work exactly how it is but eliminating the need to travel everywhere to compare prices.

nastuug · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

For convenience? Well, yeah. Last time I checked this was 2015, and we all work our ass off just to come home and relax for a few hours in whatever way suits us. This is a game, not a job. I shouldn't feel like I have to punch in for a five hour shift then punch out for bed. Log on a few times a week, sell some derpgear, log off...

You're right. It is an entirely different area of the game. And currently it's limited to the very few super elitist trading guilds, and that's it.

FYI, stop talking like you built some empire. You hopped in a trade guild and sold some junk. What we all want is the ability to buy and sell our junk within an easy, simple, and searchable application.

Humm... sorry but it was a big work (game, actually) and we successful traders are proud of it just like others are proud of their kill counters or their leaderboards or whatever else in the game.

I remind you that you don't HAVE to trade at all.

And please explain why and how it's limited to a few elitist guilds because that is plain wrong in my experience. Everyone can trade, join a trading guild and join the fun.

Market needs to be available to all persons, even the guildless
Market needs to be searchable from a central kiosk or merchant
Market needs some way to easily monitor supply and demand of items

No addons should be required for these basic functions.

Seriously, how hard can this be?

NewBlacksmurf · May 2015

I'm not against it if other changes occur but here is what makes better sense

IF the guild stores were linked by faction, globally
*still requires a guild to use an AH

I'm against any AH outside of a guild as it will offset the value of guilds

mcurley · May 2015

Did you ever play Diablo 3 when the auction house was live?

c.p.garrett1993_ESO · May 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

I'm not against it if other changes occur but here is what makes better sense

IF the guild stores were linked by faction, globally
*still requires a guild to use an AH

I'm against any AH outside of a guild as it will offset the value of guilds

This is a completely legitimate point, and I agree.
My problem is not that you need a guild to buy/ sell. It's that you need to roam the entire map, browsing through stores in a less than favorable UI, and you may not find what you're looking for.

This, IMO, is beneficial to nobody.