Why is everybody against an auction house?

BuggeX · May 2015

Its a good Moneysink atm if you Keep the Kiosks. Aslong the Money is raising the Price for the Kiosk to.
So you keep spending 1kk each week, and this getting more every week

Atreust · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

How about the fact that you can't search for items by text? Or perhaps that you must visit tens of merchants across the lands just to hunt for a single item?

Check out Votan's Search Box to search your inventory, Awesome Guild Store, and Guild Store Search Extended add ons and then you will be able to search for item's by text to your heart's content.

While I really missed the global auction house when I started playing, I've gotten used to it and I think it might be a good idea to prevent prices on everything from dropping into oblivion. This trade system allows things to stay valuable and encourages finding good trade guilds, which I don't think is a bad thing. I'm not completely against an auction house either. I'm just saying the current system isn't as bad as it's made out to be.

nastuug · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

This makes sense for all the lone wolf players. Essentially impossible for them to sell anything on the market in its current state.

Then again, I just kill all zone/guild chat in my chat window, so it feels like they don't really exist.

Heromofo · May 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

What about the people like

Small guilds who cannot get a turn in the vendors.
People like me who bloody hate guilds especially because they dont stop talking.
People who want Auction Houses.

Because i really need to know why people like been forced into guilds and this silly bidding system?

I keep my trade guilds chat turned completely off. It is however getting worse (from what I'm seeing) large guilds that have operated a year without restrictions, adding more and more must sell this amount, in this many days, etc rules

Yeah and this worries me see in world of warcraft right.
You have your quick sellers these people just want to get rid of the item for quick cash.
Then you have your patience people like me who are happy to buy there items for the quick cash and wait for the right time to sell. Of course i left after cata but i made alot of gold this way and i never had to be forced into guilds or chats.
Now im worried because on the consoles am i going to hear tonnes of people yelling wants to sell this and that.

An auction house is one of the most needed things in eso before things get worse.

Lirkin · May 2015

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Some people think that an auction house will lead to lower prices because of the competition.

I don't user the current system because it is a pain to use and makes no sense. My time is to precious to run around the world to buy stuff for a game.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · May 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

@c.p.garrett1993_ESO,

This is why. Do yourself a favor...click it and READ.

And the current system that locks a significant portion of the playerbase out of trading at all is ruining this game.

I came to ESO from LOTRO/SWTOR/Wildstar with a handful of friends, most of whom were active traders in those games; I'm the only one of us left.

The trade system (actually the lack of a functional trade system) is driving players away.

And while I do not want a global AH (I'd prefer a Zonal Trade Hall) I am acutely aware that the current system is simply not fit for purpose and the only people supporting are those in established trade guilds who fear a genuine open market place where anyone and everyone can trade freely.

All The Best

nastuug · May 2015

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO · May 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

@c.p.garrett1993_ESO,

This is why. Do yourself a favor...click it and READ.

"It was clear that the entire game had been designed to make the auction house almost necessary for progress. "
- Not the case here. It would be entirely optional and the game functions without it.
"The fault here lies not just with the concept of an auction house but with the game designers."
- The concept is fine. How it is implemented and how it works with existing features is.
"By showing up to several million players' items in one searchable place, the Auction House distorted the appearance of rarity and value."
- Artificial scarcity drives prices up and only benefits the seller, not the buyer. The current system provides a high demand for certain items but a low supply of all items. How does a low level character benefit from the current system? They don't. I cannot find anything for my characters.
"In a grey economy such as trading on a forum, you see only a small percentage of the items for sale and have to invest effort in looking for what you want to get your hands on."
- Once again. Artificial scarcity. Benefits the seller, not the buyer.
"But when you find what looks like a good item in Diablo III, it inevitably turns out to be not quite as good as you thought because there are so many better ones already on the auction house. "
- I don't know about D3 but ESO items are level locked. You'll never have this situation.

Article explicitly states that the main cause was the game's design and loot practically required an auction house. You're comparing two entirely different games and practically none of the arguments contained within are applicable to ESO.

Emma_Overload · May 2015

OP's premise is flawed, but I don't blame him if he got this impression from reading these forums!

"Everybody" is most certainly NOT against an auction house. There is a tiny, but EXTREMELY VOCAL minority of traders who have been profiting unfairly at the expense of consumers in Tamriel. These guys don't want an auction house because they don't want an open market where prices float freely to match demand to supply.

Ever wonder why hamburgers cost so much at the airport? Ever wonder why sodas are so expensive at the hotel minbar? Or why hotdogs are so expensive at a baseball game? The reason is that certain sellers have been granted CONCESSIONS, special arrangements that make it difficult for other sellers to offer similar products at competitive prices. Those guild kiosks you see in every city in Tamriel are concession stands, pure and simple.

I really don't understand why ZoS panders to these people... do they enjoy getting ripped off in real life? I sure as heck don't pay jacked up prices in real life, why should I be forced to do so in a game? The time is long past due for ESO consumers to have access to a fair, open, non-exclusionary marketplace!

Heromofo · May 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

@c.p.garrett1993_ESO,

This is why. Do yourself a favor...click it and READ.

And the current system that locks a significant portion of the playerbase out of trading at all is ruining this game.

I came to ESO from LOTRO/SWTOR/Wildstar with a handful of friends, most of whom were active traders in those games; I'm the only one of us left.

The trade system (actually the lack of a functional trade system) is driving players away.

And while I do not want a global AH (I'd prefer a Zonal Trade Hall) I am acutely aware that the current system is simply not fit for purpose and the only people supporting are those in established trade guilds who fear a genuine open market place where anyone and everyone can trade freely.

All The Best

ZOS listen to this bloke because im bringing people to the console version who are not going to like your silly system lol no offense.

But time to give in and do a global or zone Trade hall.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then

. The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

Heromofo · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

Lol same question to you then because alot of threads on this.

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself
People who prefer a auction house over the current system.

Feedback is key to change

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- Your statement also directly states how the more popular guilds are the only ones that can get attention and profit, regardless of the quality of their store.

How do you think popular trading guilds get popular if not by the quality of their store ??? Of course it is directly related and that's what makes the guild vendor and trading guild system so fun to play : you have to team up, open up, learn, interact, PLAY for your money !

Trading is actual CONTENT in ESO, a content that's extremely fun to play. If you don't like it, ignore it but don't ruin it for everyone. I don't like PVP but I don't ask for it to be removed from the game.

If you don't "play the trading game" you cannot sell your goods ? Well too bad, but if I don't play PVP I don't get PVP gear either, you cannot have it all.

idk · May 2015

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The only flaw I see is to guild stores, but they could all be what makes up the auction house.
Instead of a general auction house, like most games, it could be made out of guild stores and work so that you would be buying just like you bought from that guild. It would also decrease, but not eliminate, the need for a vendor.

It wouldn't hurt the social aspect either. How would it be any different than running around to the various guild stores like we already do? It wouldn't. It would be more convenient for sellers (guilds only) and buyers.

Your ideas would bring about the same old boring vanilla AH found in other games. I have no idea why someone starts playing a new game but wants it to be like their old game. I guess it's so they can reuse the same complaints they had of the old game.

nastuug · May 2015

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

The only flaw I see is to guild stores, but they could all be what makes up the auction house.
Instead of a general auction house, like most games, it could be made out of guild stores and work so that you would be buying just like you bought from that guild. It would also decrease, but not eliminate, the need for a vendor.

It wouldn't hurt the social aspect either. How would it be any different than running around to the various guild stores like we already do? It wouldn't. It would be more convenient for sellers (guilds only) and buyers.

Your ideas would bring about the same old boring vanilla AH found in other games. I have no idea why someone starts playing a new game but wants it to be like their old game. I guess it's so they can reuse the same complaints they had of the old game.

There are plenty of other ways ESO sets itself apart from the typical, modern MMORPG...

Yinmaigao · May 2015

Anyone remember the launch of FFXIV with their similar roll-out of player vendors? lol

I think a zone based auction hall would be a neat compromise. Allowing a centralized hub in each zone will make searching a bit easier, but still try to discourage market fixing.

Or, have vendors cost more each week (i.e. you get "penalty" that requires you to pay 5/10/15% etc in addition to your bid if you win) in order to try and cycle some other guild vendors around... On the other hand, it is nice to have a "stable" set of places/guild vendors I know in locations that will have a decent stock.

Ugh, this system is really frustrating and can only be fixed with major changes that will upset a vocal population on both sides of the argument.

I don't like any of this

asteldian · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- An AH could use the guild stores, rather than be a free to use market.

This however eliminates the competition for trade guilds. Why would you join what are currently the top trade guilds offering the best services over any guild with 50 people when benefits would be the same?
While again it's my own opinions, I like that we have competition and quality in trade guilds the same as PVP and PVE ones, guild who want to go for it can establish a name for themselves.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- An AH could give a priority or bonuses to those who own vendors, so this gold sink is not eliminated.

This would have to be a pretty heavy bonus if guilds are going to continue to invest millions of gold a week on merchants. The reason there are large sinks is because guilds compete for the best locations (Craglorn) forcing prices up and making sure only the successful guilds which are offering the best services are getting those spots.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- Your experience does not reflect that of everybody else.

That's true. However everything I have achieved is achievable by others. I didn't do anything special to get into two of the Craglorn trade guilds, I simply asked around for people who were in them and then asked for invites. I can now sell my wares faster and at good prices.

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- Your statement also directly states how the more popular guilds are the only ones that can get attention and profit, regardless of the quality of their store.

That's not entirely true. A guild needs to have quality to gain the profits required for Craglorn merchants. A merchant there costs hundreds of thousands if not millions of gold. Any guild with 500 members is not going to achieve that unless they're turning over a lot of high value or quality items. This is what you see in Craglorn with guilds established there.

What about the people like

Small guilds who cannot get a turn in the vendors.
People like me who bloody hate guilds especially because they dont stop talking.
People who want Auction Houses.

Because i really need to know why people like been forced into guilds and this silly bidding system?

Small guilds buy outlying merchants and make some effort advertising. Sure you don't get the mass footffall but if you sell decent stuff at decent prices you will sell plenty. Craglorn vendors are convenient because they sell what you are looking for but you pay a premium, buying and selling is a game itself to some people and they love travelling around for best price, so sell worthwhile stuff at a good price and you will turn a profit.

If you hate guild chat then who cares? A lot of trade guilds don't give a crap about socialising, they don't want to be your friend, they don't want to group with you, they want you to sell stuff. Join one or two, sell your wares and just untick guild chat in the chat window so you never see anything from them. No harm, no bother,its like joining the mage or fighter guild, instead its a merchant guild.

Kalman · May 2015

The only thing that needs to change about current system is instead of 1 to 6 different merchants in an area there should be 1. That is right one. Guilds would bid on this merchant/vendor location. The top 5 to (lets go high) 15 bids would win that merchant/vendor location. This merchant/vendor would then sell items from ALL the wining guild stores. Window would need to include guild name as well as seller.

AlnilamE · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

How about the fact that you can't search for items by text? Or perhaps that you must visit tens of merchants across the lands just to hunt for a single item?

Most UI pains can be fixed by getting add-ons and as for hunting a single item it depends what you're looking for.

Cool, you can go ahead and stop right there. There are limits to being forced to download addons. So you're saying that we should accept a flawed UI, especially in one of the most vital categories, and just download an addon to solve the problem?

I think even people like me who like the system (because it give you a "small town market" kind of feel that fits Tamriel IMO) agree that the UI needs to be improved. You are right. You shouldn't need to use an addon to do refined and text-based searches. But that's a problem with the UI, not with the guild trader system.

With the addon, if I'm looking for something very specific, I can usually go through all the in-town traders in all the zones in about 20 minutes or so (excluding Shornhelm, why do the devs hate Rivenspire?). I did that the other day looking for the last nirnhoned clothing piece I need for research (with no luck, I might add...)

But the best is when you have your eye out for a specific item but are not actively doing a search for it and just come across a trader while questing and they have that item for at least 30% less than everyone else (and you panic because you don't have enough money on your toon and rush to the bank and then back in hopes it hasn't sold yet. :-))

jkemmery · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

How about the fact that you can't search for items by text? Or perhaps that you must visit tens of merchants across the lands just to hunt for a single item?

Because this way, you get to visit far away lands, meet exotic and interesting people, and kill them!

c.p.garrett1993_ESO · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

"Artificial rarity" may not be the best term to use but it is a completely legitimate argument.
The current system does not allow you to see the actual supply & demand of an item.
The sad truth is many of those against the system simply do not want their prices to drop and be influenced by a legitimate supply & demand market. They do not wish to lose their pride and sense of superiority by being part of an elite trading guild.
If everyone was provided equal footing they would lose profits... And they hate that idea.

It is by no means convenient or beneficial to the buyer.
As said by another player, it's like paying airport/ theater/ ballpark prices.
The competition is removed from the market. The only real competition in place is for vendors, which is essentially a war between the guilds for buying retail space. It creates a gold sink that is beneficial to the economy, sure but there's no reason the guilds couldn't be brought together in one market and still have the current system relevant.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

Heromofo wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

Lol same question to you then because alot of threads on this.

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself
People who prefer a auction house over the current system.

Feedback is key to change

Already covered all of that. You also aren't betting, if you don't win the bid your money is returned like others already said too. Don't have a main guild able to afford a kiosk? Good thing ESO lets you have five, partially for this exact reason then, isn't it? "Lone wolf" players? You are playing an MMORPG, if you don't want to play with anyone and form any relations with people in a massively multiplayer game, why not go buy a single player one more suited to your tastes, then? You vastly overstate the commitment to join a simple trade guild, anyways, though. And you preferred an auction house in a game with 10-15k people per server on the auction house. Try it with 2 million and you might understand what everyone's been telling you finally

.

Feedback's good, but making it doesn't mean it should be changed or that your ideas make sense objectively.

Regarding people complaining about some theoretical cartels and "wanting to keep their monopoly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", how do you think anyone got to make a good trade guild ever? They started like you, and worked their way up thru recruitment and trade to make a strong guild. Some are only months old and are competing on the top tier kiosks etc every week, too. Stop complaining and go play the game, not ask to be able to bypass playing it. Guilds of dozens of people who put in the effort to build something for themselves absolutely deserve the rewards for that effort, much more than a random solo guy who never tried and instead posted to complain

.

And the whole argument of "I can't sell if I'm not in a mega trade guild" is quite frankly a non starter. You can indeed sell, buy, trade, and network without one if you prefer. Paste your main ads in zone chat occasionally, and sometimes port to an extra major city when going to town to vendor anyway, and it's no extra effort. Get the word out that you craft something particular like full nirnhoned of an armor type and all styles, or legendary glyphs custom made, and people will be repeat customers. That's what I did from launch through now, eventually getting in good guilds and continuing to use both routes for trade and profit. Heck, make a thread on the fansites for trade too, it's an extra sales tool I also utilized. The vast majority of items in ESO aren't very rare, so having ready access to a global shop would make nothing more than a commodity, and opens up real price fixing, as opposed to trade and manual pricing as we can now. Don't like the price? Don't buy it!

lecarcajou_ESO · May 2015

How come this thread isn't 2000 pages long by now? I'm pretty sure it was already going on before I last stopped playing back in October...

Turelus · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Most of the arguments for a global AH are that it's easier for players and x game has it. Neither of these seem like positives which outweigh the reasons I like it above.

How about the fact that you can't search for items by text? Or perhaps that you must visit tens of merchants across the lands just to hunt for a single item?

Most UI pains can be fixed by getting add-ons and as for hunting a single item it depends what you're looking for.

Cool, you can go ahead and stop right there. There are limits to being forced to download addons. So you're saying that we should accept a flawed UI, especially in one of the most vital categories, and just download an addon to solve the problem?

I am not saying you should accept flawed UI, ZOS needs to do a damn big overhaul on the UI.

However until that time I am not going to complain it's unworkable and demand drastic changes to game features to solve UI issues which there are numerous add-ons developed to overcome it. TBH even when ZOS does address the UI issues they will probably stay with the add-on because it's so good.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info695-AwesomeGuildStore.html

This eliminated most the search pains for the guild stores (not all of them as the core is flawed).

Additionally try to get into multiple trade guilds, quality ones if you can and you're able to search and find almost all the items you need.

Turelus · May 2015

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Ever wonder why hamburgers cost so much at the airport? Ever wonder why sodas are so expensive at the hotel minbar? Or why hotdogs are so expensive at a baseball game? The reason is that certain sellers have been granted CONCESSIONS, special arrangements that make it difficult for other sellers to offer similar products at competitive prices. Those guild kiosks you see in every city in Tamriel are concession stands, pure and simple.

Exactly THIS. Yes, it is a concession system. YES, it favors people who group up and get organized and competitive.

If it were real life I would advocate for a completely transparent and equal and access-free market for all, like an AH would be. But this is a game, guild stands are a distortion of the market that can be played with and that's exactly what makes it a game within the game, and fun to play. And everyone can play !

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

do they enjoy getting ripped off in real life?

Do you enjoy meeting a giant mantikora in real life ? I guess not. But you enjoy it in a game. Trading in ESO is a game, it's fun, and you don't *have* to be ripped off, it's up to you to be on the right side of the board.

As far as i know, from in game experience, there are still PLENTY of unused or very cheap vendors available in game, especially in the thieves' undergrounds, currently occupied by very small unsignificant "guilds". Create or join a guild, take over those cheap places, make them profitable. Winner.

Attorneyatlawl · May 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

c.p.garrett1993_ESO wrote: »

- Your statement also directly states how the more popular guilds are the only ones that can get attention and profit, regardless of the quality of their store.

How do you think popular trading guilds get popular if not by the quality of their store ??? Of course it is directly related and that's what makes the guild vendor and trading guild system so fun to play : you have to team up, open up, learn, interact, PLAY for your money !

Trading is actual CONTENT in ESO, a content that's extremely fun to play. If you don't like it, ignore it but don't ruin it for everyone. I don't like PVP but I don't ask for it to be removed from the game.

If you don't "play the trading game" you cannot sell your goods ? Well too bad, but if I don't play PVP I don't get PVP gear either, you cannot have it all.

(loud applause)

Ketta · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

They never said they didn't want to socialize. Like many others, including myself, they resist and are against being forced into doing something to have access to something that every single player should have access to: selling their goods through the market system. Also, they did detail their method of socializing in an MMO, and just because it's different than what you like doesn't mean it's wrong or bad.

By your "lol?" I gather you're unaware of the meaning of artificial rarity; it's an actual 'thing' in MMOs and understanding what causes it helps with understanding why player-driven markets can get so screwy.

ZoS has definitely gone a different route, and it's not all bad. But it DEFINITELY needs improvement. Right now, it's a seller's market. Sellers are making serious bank, and it's no surprise that the vocal ones out there don't want that to change. I'm not even trying that hard (i.e. I spend most of my time leveling and exploring) as a new-ish player, and I'm making more than enough money. Even so, I think changes need to be made so that all players have access to more of the market (low level players can't access most kiosks, limiting their purchasing ability), and selling should not be restricted to those who join guilds.

Heromofo · May 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Isn't the whole idea of an MMO to search out that which is rare? An Auction House takes that away. I also like being able to find bargains.

As far as not being able to find what I want, of the common items, that is not an issue with the current system. I can search 10 guild stores in a matter of a few minutes (5 Kiosks in a town and the 5 I am a member of) and find anything common I need. May not be for the best price, but that is for me to determine if it's worth looking for a bargain.

The only two issues with the current system is more guilds that want to be a part of it are locked out than area allowed in, and you have to be in a guild to sell in Kiosk (and a guild that gets a Kiosk). The first is easy to fix if they would just allow more than one Guild to get a Kiosk. Which would also take care of the other issue as more people could find a guild that has a kiosk to sell in.

Your last part is right alot of guilds and players like me who hate and i mean hate been forced into guilds are been locked out.
Because we dont have the millions to bid or for me been forced into guilds. In wow i was a lone wolf type played with mates but i would join their guild runs so i was always geared so i could lead pug runs if i wanted something. Also i really enjoyed playing the market and i was good back is BC days i was always loaded comming into wotlk people would spin out with my Harley. So i am really upset about this because ZOS went out of there way to avoid Ah .

Sooo, you just don't like the economic system because it is different, and you are not interested in socializing online at all in games? Join a trade house and don't talk, then . The trade system here is much deeper, and allows for arbitrage as I mentioned which you called "artificial rarity" (lol?), just one more aspect of trade to master. Zenimax didn't do anything to "avoid" an auction house that was global. They simply chose a different system that most other games have used in one form or another, and refined t a little. It's a better fit when there are millions of players on the same server as I mentioned, as well as having gameplay advantages .

Lol same question to you then because alot of threads on this.

What about
The smaller and medium guilds that cannot afford the millions to bet
The lone wolf players who are not happy to been forced into guilds to trade like myself
People who prefer a auction house over the current system.

Feedback is key to change

Already covered all of that. You also aren't betting, if you don't win the bid your money is returned like others already said too. Don't have a main guild able to afford a kiosk? Good thing ESO lets you have five, partially for this exact reason then, isn't it? "Lone wolf" players? You are playing an MMORPG, if you don't want to play with anyone and form any relations with people in a massively multiplayer game, why not go buy a single player one more suited to your tastes, then? You vastly overstate the commitment to join a simple trade guild, anyways, though. And you preferred an auction house in a game with 10-15k people per server on the auction house. Try it with 2 million and you might understand what everyone's been telling you finally .

Feedback's good, but making it doesn't mean it should be changed or that your ideas make sense objectively.

Regarding people complaining about some theoretical cartels and "wanting to keep their monopoly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", how do you think anyone got to make a good trade guild ever? They started like you, and worked their way up thru recruitment and trade to make a strong guild. Some are only months old and are competing on the top tier kiosks etc every week, too. Stop complaining and go play the game, not ask to be able to bypass playing it. Guilds of dozens of people who put in the effort to build something for themselves absolutely deserve the rewards for that effort, much more than a random solo guy who never tried and instead posted to complain .

And the whole argument of "I can't sell if I'm not in a mega trade guild" is quite frankly a non starter. You can indeed sell, buy, trade, and network without one if you prefer. Paste your main ads in zone chat occasionally, and sometimes port to an extra major city when going to town to vendor anyway, and it's no extra effort. Get the word out that you craft something particular like full nirnhoned of an armor type and all styles, or legendary glyphs custom made, and people will be repeat customers. That's what I did from launch through now, eventually getting in good guilds and continuing to use both routes for trade and profit. Heck, make a thread on the fansites for trade too, it's an extra sales tool I also utilized. The vast majority of items in ESO aren't very rare, so having ready access to a global shop would make nothing more than a commodity, and opens up real price fixing, as opposed to trade and manual pricing as we can now. Don't like the price? Don't buy it!

What a load of crap lol

Your pretty much saying tough luck
I will take it your apart of a guild that gets a vendor on a regular base
Also if the system is so [snip] fine then why are so many people ticked off and why so many threads then?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Inappropriate Content and Language]

nastuug · May 2015

Turelus wrote: »

nastuug wrote: »

c00lmon wrote: »

The people that have the upper hand in the current system don't want things to change.

Interestingly enough, they are the minority in this battle.

However often have better reasons than "I CBA to move around the world".

The minority are the only ones who support the current market system. They only do so because once the doors are blown open, they will be forced to compete with every single player, regardless of guild association.