Should the ESO forums bring back the LOL reactions?

PBpsy · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Zazaaji wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I thought the new lol button/ disagree button was insightful?

I always took that to mean.... insightful. As in, you value the information given. That's why @ZOS_AlanG 's post has 2 "insightful" reactions already.

....Unless of course, insightful is going the way of "LOL".

Insightful was always used sarcastically to some degree just like awesome. It was only that lol was much more appropriate for the role.

WebBull · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We actually had the Disagree flag for much of beta, but it was abused in a similar manner. It's less taunting to "Disagree" a post than to "LOL" it, but using it on all of someone's posts was still an issue. We considered bringing it back as part of the overhaul, but eventually decided against it.

Is this Kindergarten? We are all big boys and can handle it. The game is rated M 17+ but your worried about a LoL or dislike button? People need to get a grip. Have you listened to zone chat? If players can handle that I am sure they can handle a sarcastic LoL or dislike. Give me a break.

Zazaaji · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

PBpsy wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I thought the new lol button/ disagree button was insightful?

I always took that to mean.... insightful. As in, you value the information given. That's why @ZOS_AlanG 's post has 2 "insightful" reactions already.

....Unless of course, insightful is going the way of "LOL".

Insightful was always used sarcastically to some degree just like awesome. It was only that lol was much more appropriate for the role.

...... Ok, maybe ZoS should just remove all voting options, as there will always be an informal disagree button that will be abused, apparently.

Kildayen · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

This world has become so pussified and sensitive... It is stupid that things like a "Disagree" or "LOL" button can't exist because it might hurt someone's feelings. Seriously?

LOL

(That ^ was me pushing my imaginary LOL button)

Nyghthowler · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

People are now using the Awesome button to ridicule others. So removing the LoL and Disagree buttons didn't fix the issue.

PBpsy · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Zazaaji wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I thought the new lol button/ disagree button was insightful?

I always took that to mean.... insightful. As in, you value the information given. That's why @ZOS_AlanG 's post has 2 "insightful" reactions already.

....Unless of course, insightful is going the way of "LOL".

Insightful was always used sarcastically to some degree just like awesome. It was only that lol was much more appropriate for the role.

...... Ok, maybe ZoS should just remove all voting options, as there will always be an informal disagree button that will be abused, apparently.

The only option is to remove 'agree' and the rest and add the only three reactions that make any sense :

Bacon ,Cheese and Potato.

Unfortunately ZOS are just not that awesome.

ZOS_AlanG · May 2015

Psychobunni wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

@Muizer @BBSooner
I see no downside to adding it back, but fear I might be overlooking something.

The LOL tag was sometimes abused, which is why it was removed. For example, people would LOL posts they disagreed with, and on some occasions would systematically LOL all recent posts by a particular member. While far from heavy trolling, it was misused like this with a fair frequency, and occasionally contributed to escalating tensions or other problems. These issues eventually outweighed any good it was contributing, which is why we decided to remove it.

At the moment we aren't considering a return of the LOL flag. However, we certainly don't mind discussion of bringing it back.

Well, obviously you guys could tell if someone was forum stalking another simply to LOL all their posts, so perhaps handle that with the same measures as "trolling"?

I did usually use LOL for posts that made me laugh, however sometimes I laughed because it was ridiculous too. Both are valid LOL's in my opinion. A disagree button wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing (assuming again forum stalking was controlled) Not everyone wants to explain the reasons Sorc's are not OP on the 100th nerf Sorc thread for example...

We would moderate these as necessary, but it's fairly time-consuming, especially if there's a mess to clean up. Actually, even if there isn't a mess to clean up it can be time-consuming to do a thorough check. And there were times people thought they were being targeted when that wasn't the case. In the end, the functionality of Disagree (and LOL) just didn't justify the extra time moderation was taking.

Zazaaji wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG - Why not add my idea of a "Vote ban" system for the moderators and above then? If someone is shown to abuse the vote system, prevent them from voting for any option at all on any post at all. If they abuse the Disagree or LOL buttons, they'd surely abuse the other three voting options as well.

Until recently this wouldn't have been an option with the available forum tech. Even now, the way we'd have to do this is a bit round-about.

Nyghthowler wrote: »

People are now using the Awesome button to ridicule others. So removing the LoL and Disagree buttons didn't fix the issue.

Thus far, this seems to be much less of an issue than Disagree or LOL.

Dru1076 · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

Sometimes I miss it. But better to have busy mods than trolling and misunderstanding. If I find something amusing, I give em an awesome. If a post is funny, I figure the person will know what that means. Just because I don't have a button does not mean I cant laugh.

timidobserver · May 2015

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

@Muizer @BBSooner
I see no downside to adding it back, but fear I might be overlooking something.

The LOL tag was sometimes abused, which is why it was removed. For example, people would LOL posts they disagreed with, and on some occasions would systematically LOL all recent posts by a particular member. While far from heavy trolling, it was misused like this with a fair frequency, and occasionally contributed to escalating tensions or other problems. These issues eventually outweighed any good it was contributing, which is why we decided to remove it.

At the moment we aren't considering a return of the LOL flag. However, we certainly don't mind discussion of bringing it back.

I wouldn't mind a deeper explanation of why how people decide to use the LOL flag even matters. It is like going to a school and banning laughing because it hurts some people's feelings.

BigM · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

@ZOS_AlanG I get it, but I just don't see why not and bring it back as long as you bring disagree or maybe PFFFT with it. We are all adults here yes even the 16 years old and us over the hill dirty old men. Every one of us should be adult enough to take either of these in good or bad instances. Plus it would be a lot better someone doing it this way instead of writing out a rant that insults the person in a worse way.

At least think about bring them both back for maybe 2 week test run!

Zazaaji · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

@ZOS_AlanG - Thank you for all your responses, they are much appreciated. I have nothing further to add, I just wanted to ensure that at least one person thanked you for taking the time to respond to us this much.

Obscure · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

...why such a system to begin with?

Is "Like" and "Dislike" too simplistic? Either more options or two options is how I see it.

"Upvote" or "Downvote" is fine.

"LOL" "DISAGREE" "AGREE" "INSIGHTFUL" "AWESOME" "CONCERNING" "BRUTAL" "DISGUSTING" "ENTERTAINING" "KIND" "APPRECIATED" "SAD" or even "L2P" are all valid responses to a post.

What's with the candy land "let's just be positive guuuys. OK guuuuys. Just be nice guuuuuys. We don't want to be meanies guuuuuuys."

...these forums could use a bit more *** and vinegar... I get that not everyone has as thick of skin as others, and some folks take the things they get in response personally, or a bit too seriously, but defacto removing the "LOL" button is just plain baby proofing. I'm not saying I do not respect moderator staff making the call to do so, there house their rules, I'm merely saying the lack of a negative feedback option in general basically invalidates having a positive one. Oh yay, you have 500 agrees...never mind if there was a Disagree option you'd have 5000 of those.

...thinking of what the little notification message would say for 5000 Disagrees; "Yeah, maybe you should just, like, stop...like seriously... burn your keyboard."

Any who I'm all for bringing back ALL OF THE BUTTONS

Psychobunni · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Zazaaji wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG - Thank you for all your responses, they are much appreciated. I have nothing further to add, I just wanted to ensure that at least one person thanked you for taking the time to respond to us this much.

^ This +1

Sorry, dinner was ready, but yes tyvm @ZOS_AlanG

eliisra · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

I rather just have a disagree button. People where getting a "LOL" after spending a fair amount of time writing a serious post about something they felt passionate about, it just felt rude and looked bad.

But we do need an option to show disagreement. Rather have a button for it that than multiple posts with "no...10 char" in every single suggestion thread.

Vyle_Byte · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

WebBull wrote: »

Is this Kindergarten? We are all big boys and can handle it. The game is rated M 17+ but your worried about a LoL or dislike button? People need to get a grip. Have you listened to zone chat? If players can handle that I am sure they can handle a sarcastic LoL or dislike. Give me a break.

+10 (+1 wasnt enough to convey how much I agree)

driosketch · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

I've been here since July 2013. At some point early on we had a dislike/disagree that would hide posts and cost the person points. People soon figured out they could gang up and bury all the posts of people they didn't like. So that was quickly removed. I think the last time a disagree was added was among the old pts testers, players hand selected by ZOS mainly because they were good at giving feed back. I would argue that if those players couldn't the responsibility of a disagree button there's no hope the general forums could. But then for anyone who was around to witness the lol become the new disagree, that fact is apparent.

I started actually using awesome for genuinely amusing posts. I continue to do so, and people no longer have to wonder if that was sarcastic or not. Nothing has caught on as a substitute for disagree, rather the lack of button presses on a topic seems to be the indicator. Or you know, people coming out and saying so. I honestly feel the forums are better without it, but that's only because I've seen the alternatives. People asking for it back either weren't around for all that, or just want their low effort disagree back.

-Because you asked us to explain a no vote.

Tandor · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

Negative flags are always going to be abused. In the case of the "LOL" flag, there was never really a consensus as to whether it was a negative flag or indeed a positive one, because half the time no-one had a clue whether it was being used to laugh with, or at, the poster. It served no effective purpose.

PKMN12 · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

so, just looked at my badges, according to that i am the ONLY person with the 25 lols button "Achievment" O.o...but there is still a list of recent achievers (which of course means the last coupel people to have earned it before it was removed)

WebBull · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Maybe there should be a Jackwagon button in the shape of a box of tissues.

Obscure · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Wonder if it's cool that I just post that every time I find someone funny.

...sudden idea that just struck me... What if mods only gave the good little boys and girls "LOL" power. Say if you don't ever break forum rules, and the mod staff never has to take action against you, they reward that good behaviour with an "LOL" button. That way, if you use your powers for evil, they can hit you with the kryptonite mod hammer rendering you just another mere mortal.

...kinda disqualifies myself, but hey, just because I can be an *** from time to time doesn't mean we should ruin it for others

Grao · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

@Muizer @BBSooner
I see no downside to adding it back, but fear I might be overlooking something.

The LOL tag was sometimes abused, which is why it was removed. For example, people would LOL posts they disagreed with, and on some occasions would systematically LOL all recent posts by a particular member. While far from heavy trolling, it was misused like this with a fair frequency, and occasionally contributed to escalating tensions or other problems. These issues eventually outweighed any good it was contributing, which is why we decided to remove it.

At the moment we aren't considering a return of the LOL flag. However, we certainly don't mind discussion of bringing it back.

I wonder why such was the one of the uses for the LOL button before? Wait, maybe it was because ZoS doesn't give us the option to down-vote or simply disagree with a post in their forum!

This is probably the only forum I've ever seen in which or you agree or you shut up, but hey, I guess it is in line with their current policy of heavy Mod presence and editing.

Flynch · May 2015

Can you not keep the 'LOL' button but also add a 'thumbs down' button? Humour has far more impact in a community than civil discussion, and to sterilise means to dehumanise, imo.

arena25 · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

Zazaaji wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG - Why not add my idea of a "Vote ban" system for the moderators and above then? If someone is shown to abuse the vote system, prevent them from voting for any option at all on any post at all. If they abuse the Disagree or LOL buttons, they'd surely abuse the other three voting options as well.

Agreed. I like this idea. Anything to reduce trolling will mean ZOS can spend more time interacting with the players and getting suggestions for the game (like a jewelry craft? Yes, no, maybe so?).

Gidorick · May 2015

I don't care/Wait and See/Casual observer

aww... you should have had an "LOL" option in your poll....

arena25 · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

WebBull wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We actually had the Disagree flag for much of beta, but it was abused in a similar manner. It's less taunting to "Disagree" a post than to "LOL" it, but using it on all of someone's posts was still an issue. We considered bringing it back as part of the overhaul, but eventually decided against it.

Is this Kindergarten? We are all big boys and can handle it. The game is rated M 17+ but your worried about a LoL or dislike button? People need to get a grip. Have you listened to zone chat? If players can handle that I am sure they can handle a sarcastic LoL or dislike. Give me a break.

We may be big boys physically, but some are not mentally.

In fact, on the forums for another game called RIFT, there is a rule that all material used (signatures, posts, profile pics, forum name) should be safe for people 13 years of age. I'm surprised actually that ZOS hasn't adopted a similar rule.

Btw, fun fact: Our minds aren't fully developed until age 25. So, yeah, not all of us our mentally grown up.

Nyghthowler · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

If people get their feelings hurt because someone laughs at them or gets disagreed with on the internet, then they should find some other hobby such as solitaire or rock collecting.
IMO we need a LoL, Disagree, Strongly Disagree, and You're a Moron button. Encouraging stupidity for politeness sake just encourages stupidity.

(edit: spelling)

arena25 · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

PBpsy wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

Heromofo wrote: »

I thought the new lol button/ disagree button was insightful?

I always took that to mean.... insightful. As in, you value the information given. That's why @ZOS_AlanG 's post has 2 "insightful" reactions already.

....Unless of course, insightful is going the way of "LOL".

Insightful was always used sarcastically to some degree just like awesome. It was only that lol was much more appropriate for the role.

...... Ok, maybe ZoS should just remove all voting options, as there will always be an informal disagree button that will be abused, apparently.

The only option is to remove 'agree' and the rest and add the only three reactions that make any sense :

Bacon ,Cheese and Potato.

Unfortunately ZOS are just not that awesome.

That is so funny.

Hmmm...now I'm hungry. Time to grab an evening snack.

arena25 · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Psychobunni wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

@Muizer @BBSooner
I see no downside to adding it back, but fear I might be overlooking something.

The LOL tag was sometimes abused, which is why it was removed. For example, people would LOL posts they disagreed with, and on some occasions would systematically LOL all recent posts by a particular member. While far from heavy trolling, it was misused like this with a fair frequency, and occasionally contributed to escalating tensions or other problems. These issues eventually outweighed any good it was contributing, which is why we decided to remove it.

At the moment we aren't considering a return of the LOL flag. However, we certainly don't mind discussion of bringing it back.

Well, obviously you guys could tell if someone was forum stalking another simply to LOL all their posts, so perhaps handle that with the same measures as "trolling"?

I did usually use LOL for posts that made me laugh, however sometimes I laughed because it was ridiculous too. Both are valid LOL's in my opinion. A disagree button wouldn't necessarily be the worst thing (assuming again forum stalking was controlled) Not everyone wants to explain the reasons Sorc's are not OP on the 100th nerf Sorc thread for example...

We would moderate these as necessary, but it's fairly time-consuming, especially if there's a mess to clean up. Actually, even if there isn't a mess to clean up it can be time-consuming to do a thorough check. And there were times people thought they were being targeted when that wasn't the case. In the end, the functionality of Disagree (and LOL) just didn't justify the extra time moderation was taking.

Zazaaji wrote: »

@ZOS_AlanG - Why not add my idea of a "Vote ban" system for the moderators and above then? If someone is shown to abuse the vote system, prevent them from voting for any option at all on any post at all. If they abuse the Disagree or LOL buttons, they'd surely abuse the other three voting options as well.

Until recently this wouldn't have been an option with the available forum tech. Even now, the way we'd have to do this is a bit round-about.

Nyghthowler wrote: »

People are now using the Awesome button to ridicule others. So removing the LoL and Disagree buttons didn't fix the issue.

Thus far, this seems to be much less of an issue than Disagree or LOL.

As far as the extra moderation it takes, that's why we suggested a disagree button.

In addition, the disagree button will help people who have busy schedules.

arena25 · May 2015

YES! I wish I could give appreciation for people's humor.

timidobserver wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

Zazaaji wrote: »

@Muizer @BBSooner
I see no downside to adding it back, but fear I might be overlooking something.

The LOL tag was sometimes abused, which is why it was removed. For example, people would LOL posts they disagreed with, and on some occasions would systematically LOL all recent posts by a particular member. While far from heavy trolling, it was misused like this with a fair frequency, and occasionally contributed to escalating tensions or other problems. These issues eventually outweighed any good it was contributing, which is why we decided to remove it.

At the moment we aren't considering a return of the LOL flag. However, we certainly don't mind discussion of bringing it back.

I wouldn't mind a deeper explanation of why how people decide to use the LOL flag even matters. It is like going to a school and banning laughing because it hurts some people's feelings.

Yes, I like that analogy.

As I read somewhere, there's a fine line between laughing at someone and laughing with someone.

Dru1076 · May 2015

No. (Explain below)

Nyghthowler wrote: »

If people get their feelings hurt because someone laughs at them or gets disagreed with on the internet, then they should find some other hobby such as solitaire or rock collecting.
IMO we need a LoL, Disagree, Strongly Disagree, and You're a Moron button. Encouraging stupidity for politeness sake just encourages stupidity.

(edit: spelling)

See... Now your pretty much just asking for a troll button. You seriously think its fine to laugh openly and derisively at people in forums? Lol. You will only convince Zosv they made the right choice with arguments like this. A your a moron button sounds like pure genius! Oh wait... No it doesn't. It sounds childish and immature...imo.