The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.

Shadesofkin · April 2015

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

This, right here.

Ayantir · April 2015

There is one thing I don't like in current system, that someone who flood can bring 500 people and get (very) rich.

I was in a merchant guild, only the leader could invite, he was on holidays, I watched the guildbank raise.. 100k / day for this guy, he never rent a vendor. he stopped eso with 2M gold in bank. A friend of him take back the guild after 1 month of non activity of the leader.

It's too late to do something I think, but block guild creation to minimum of 8 active players when guild is founded, or something which can improve the system..

because standard guilds are a lot overwhelmed with those "trading guilds" built from nowhere.

Which one get a website ?
Which one get a forum?
An active channel, a community, or some activities ?

So few compared to the mass of "random trading guild".

And while this time, "true" guilds, those you can see on forums, those which post guides, strats, give advices and give "activities" to gamers have this problem to give that little help to their members.

PS: I didn't say that in my history, our ex guild trader leader has built another merchant guild with another 500ppl when he came back with f2p -_-

Thymos · April 2015

@Shadesofkin but the big arguers here don't want to acknowledge the fact that the in-game economy is quite stable right now.

tallenn · April 2015

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

If you don't consider "buying and selling" to be a part of playing the game then you can right click on any item in your inventory to "mark as junk". Then on your next trip to an NPC vendor you can press "X" to "Sell All Junk".

No guild needed.

But maybe that's too much effort for you?

Such ridiculous replies.

It's totally feasible to sell purple motifs to vendors for 60g. Yep, mhm.

He's not complaining about the existence of a player economy, he's complaining about how it's executed and how he doesn't want to go through tons of (perceived) hassle just to be a part of such a basic portion of the game.

I bet you if someone from BBC

What is BBC? I could use another guild.

Actually are we even allowed to talk about our guilds here?

Anyone who can invite for such a guild that won't kick me out for not posting items to sell every week, and won't charge me a ton of money to stay in, please shoot me an invite. Account name is same as forum name. Let's see where that goes.

The fee to stay in is ridiculous, but being kicked for not posting even a single item per week sounds reasonable. They probably want active traders, and not people who essentially just take up a slot.

That said my guild does neither, but idk if it's full atm.

Many casual players like myself don't generally have a lot to sell. Should we then not have the opportunity to get access to the same massive numbers of potential buyers as you? I have 4 guild slots if anyone with a kiosk wants to invite me.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

Do you know how hard that it to believe, if you are having to your going out of pocket to keep it running then there's no profit in it so why would you stay it's counter intuitive.

Thymos · April 2015

Ayantir wrote: »

There is one thing I don't like in current system, that someone who flood can bring 500 people and get (very) rich.

I was in a merchant guild, only the leader could invite, he was on holidays, I watched the guildbank raise.. 100k / day for this guy, he never rent a vendor. he stopped eso with 2M gold in bank. A friend of him take back the guild after 1 month of non activity of the leader.

It's too late to do something I think, but block guild creation to minimum of 8 active players when guild is founded, or something which can improve the system..

because standard guilds are a lot overwhelmed with those "trading guilds" built from nowhere.

Which one get a website ?
Which one get a forum?
An active channel, a community, or some activities ?

So few compared to the mass of "random trading guild".

And while this time, "true" guilds, those you can see on forums, those which post guides, strats, give advices and give "activities" to gamers have this problem to give that little help to their members.

PS: I didn't say that in my history, our ex guild trader leader has built another merchant guild with another 500ppl when he came back with f2p -_-

But ultimately, we still hold the choice of joining whichever guild we want to. One bad guild leader, doesn't mean all of them are.

Athas24 · April 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

1. the amount of characters you have is irrelevant to the trade system. I have all my slots maxed but the guilds are account wide so who cares?
2. it sounds like you are not in enough guilds for trade. Personally, I have my 1 guild for social interaction and 4 guilds for trading. I can sell 120 items at a time and they sell within a matter of hours/days using the current system. If your unable to find the items you want/need going to main cities that would be a first I've heard of. There are so may items out there that are only a wayshrine away in each central city. Thats in addition to your trade guilds that you can have access to for sales.
3. zone chat in the major cities works pretty quickly too as a last resort for sales AND purchases

Do you really just want cheap goods available to you that bad for crafting so you don't have to stop now and again to harvest them? Materials are all over the place and extremely accessible even for those who don't farm them (like myself). A Global Trade house would ruin the economy. Newer players can and will adapt to the current system because they need to to trade. This will make sales even more profitable for those guilds who are currently having issues gaining enough members to own an external vendor.[/color]

1) No it isn't. The more characters I have (with crafting) the more likely I am to need to use the trade system.

2) I am not in any guilds. There is nothing inherent in the MMORPG model that should require me to be in a guild. That you need to be in 4 different guilds for trading shows the trade system doesn't work properly. Low level characters are not going to be travel to all the main cities, they may be lucky to have access to one.

3) Zone Chat is not an adequate substitute for a fully functioning trade system.

The game is awash with new players at low level.
Low level areas are being stripped bare of basic materials.
To make crafting useful you need to be able to craft decent quality (at least as good as rewards) items slightly ahead of your level curve so that you have the gear ready for you.

The economy is ruined.
Basic mats are nearly only ever available in full stacks, and the prices are way out of the reach of new players.

You seem to think that the trade system is there to allow the few leading trade guilds to get rich.

Have a look around the MMORPG market.
How many other games have the same dysfunctional system as ESO?
None.

How many of them have global trade houses / auction houses.
Pretty much all of them.

The weight of evidence from the industry, and from the number of players playing games with differing systems is that an AH works and Trade Guild Kiosks don't.

All this talk about adjusting to the market etc reminds me of an old economics saying favoured among those who support capitalism: you can't buck the market.

The MMO Market says that an AH is the way to go.

Zenimax would be very silly IMO to ignore that.

All The Best

I don't think it's broken because im in multiple trade guilds. The game was designed with that in mind. you can't compare the Megaserver market to any other game out there because no other game uses a megaserver. You don't need full stacks to make gear and you can gather the necessary components in 10 minutes, Flat if you want only 10-20 of the item you need for a craft so the market is irrelevant at that point. MMO's and the history of them and auction houses has Nothing to do with this nor does it have a place in the discussion unless they utilize megaservers, and they don't. Also, I am by far not rich by using those guilds. Most of my money is actually made through thieving because its a method I prefer compared to farming mats etc.

Athas24 · April 2015

tallenn wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

If you don't consider "buying and selling" to be a part of playing the game then you can right click on any item in your inventory to "mark as junk". Then on your next trip to an NPC vendor you can press "X" to "Sell All Junk".

No guild needed.

But maybe that's too much effort for you?

Such ridiculous replies.

It's totally feasible to sell purple motifs to vendors for 60g. Yep, mhm.

He's not complaining about the existence of a player economy, he's complaining about how it's executed and how he doesn't want to go through tons of (perceived) hassle just to be a part of such a basic portion of the game.

I bet you if someone from BBC

What is BBC? I could use another guild.

Actually are we even allowed to talk about our guilds here?

Anyone who can invite for such a guild that won't kick me out for not posting items to sell every week, and won't charge me a ton of money to stay in, please shoot me an invite. Account name is same as forum name. Let's see where that goes.

The fee to stay in is ridiculous, but being kicked for not posting even a single item per week sounds reasonable. They probably want active traders, and not people who essentially just take up a slot.

That said my guild does neither, but idk if it's full atm.

Many casual players like myself don't generally have a lot to sell. Should we then not have the opportunity to get access to the same massive numbers of potential buyers as you? I have 4 guild slots if anyone with a kiosk wants to invite me.

Shoot me an in game email. I'll get you in one right away no problem

@Athas24

WraithAzraiel · April 2015

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

@Shadesofkin but the big arguers here don't want to acknowledge the fact that the in-game economy is quite stable right now.

Its stable, but useless.

As a new player, just starting out in any other MMO I can trade, I can afford to buy from the AH to make my crafting go a little quicker and be on par with my level so I can make useful items (which is the point of crafting).

In ESO I can't trade.
I can't afford to buy from the kiosks because a) the price of everything is inflated by the guild costs incurred in bidding for a lucrative pitch, and b) because trade slots are limited just about everything I may wish to buy is only available in full stacks (putting them even further out of reach).

An in-game economy that only works for the percentage of players already in well-established trade guilds is, on any appropriate metric you care to measure, dysfunctional at best, and not fit for purpose at worst.

That established players can't see just how bad this is for the new influx of players is equally disheartening. It smack of that old saying "I'm alright Jack but can .....".

Players who genuinely care about the game will know that new players need to be catered for as well, because every player hitting the stupid "trade wall" and not finding a solution to it is a player not spending any more money on the game.

All The Best

Sylvyr · April 2015

Yes, some merchants are WAY better than others.

- close to wayshrine
- bundled with multiple merchants in the same area
- in zones that are better for trade hubs (example, undaunted enclave quest zones like Mournhold) due to higher player visitation

Other merchants by themselves, in middle of nowhere, might get an occasion browser... but really aren't worth going out of your way to go shop at.

Say about 30 merchants across all zones are "good". Say those 30 guilds are maxxed at 500 members. That's 15,000 players that can decently participate in the current system as sellers.

Up that to 60 merchants which IMHO is a huge stretch, that's 30,000 players.

How many active players are there? TBH I Don't know. If it's 300,000 then 30,000 is only 10%.

I don't have solid numbers but I think if you take a reasonable guestimate, you can surmise that the system only accommodates a fraction of players, regardless of how good or crappy it is.

Just sayin'

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

But ultimately, we still hold the choice of joining whichever guild we want to. One bad guild leader, doesn't mean all of them are.

But if we ant to trade we don't have the choice of not joining a guild and this thread demonstrates that a fair few players want that choice.

The real question is why does that choice seemingly scare so many players?
Is it because they know many of the criticisms of the current system are, in fact, valid?

No MMO company ever lost players by giving them choices; only by denying them choices.

All The Best

pugyourself · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

This. @liammozzb16_ESO, just swallow your pride and ask the GM for an invite already. If you go in with an open mind, you will have fun, make money, and enjoy the game a whole lot more.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

This. @liammozzb16_ESO, just swallow your pride and ask the GM for an invite already. If you go in with an open mind, you will have fun, make money, and enjoy the game a whole lot more.

It's not pride I refuse to join a flawed system that rewards the few over the many.

Sylvyr · April 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

But ultimately, we still hold the choice of joining whichever guild we want to. One bad guild leader, doesn't mean all of them are.

But if we ant to trade we don't have the choice of not joining a guild and this thread demonstrates that a fair few players want that choice.

The real question is why does that choice seemingly scare so many players?
Is it because they know many of the criticisms of the current system are, in fact, valid?

No MMO company ever lost players by giving them choices; only by denying them choices.

All The Best

It scared people because those that CURRENTLY can sell through GOOD merchants will lose out.

They claim that anything more widespread like an AH will crash the market.

The only thing a larger system will do is allow supply and demand to organically work themselves out. Sellers will have to sell at competitive (likely lower) prices and demand will have to meet them and when demand demands more then sellers can raise prices.

The current system leans towards the market being a sellers market. And some people like it that way.

The market will "crash" yeah. right.

Flaminir · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No (But a Guild makes it easier to get a group!)

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No (But a guild makes it easier to get a group & do well)

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No (But guilds make it easier to swap/borrow/excahnge traits etc)

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes (NO... chat spam is often the quickest way & gets good prices. Guilds just make it easier... list & forget)

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

You aren't FORCED to join a guild for anything.... but most things are made easier, quicker, more fun by doing so. Trading & guild traders included.

If you don't want to talk to others then no problem... but you need to be very aware that this is an MMO... the whole concept is built around being around people, being in groups with other people, helping each other, cooperating & social interaction.

If you hate / refuse to interact with the guild system that much then you should probably accept that this isn't the game for you... because ZoS's whole design philosophy is built around this & making people interact.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

but you need to be very aware that this is an MMO... the whole concept is built around being around people, being in groups with other people, helping each other, cooperating & social interaction.

No.

I see this error so many times it boggles my mind.

MMO - Massively-Mutliplayer-Online

Nowhere in there is there any prima facie requirement to be in groups or guilds.

All The Best

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

This. @liammozzb16_ESO, just swallow your pride and ask the GM for an invite already. If you go in with an open mind, you will have fun, make money, and enjoy the game a whole lot more.

It's not pride I refuse to join a flawed system that rewards the few over the many.

Flaminir wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No (But a Guild makes it easier to get a group!)

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No (But a guild makes it easier to get a group & do well)

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No (But guilds make it easier to swap/borrow/excahnge traits etc)

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes (NO... chat spam is often the quickest way & gets good prices. Guilds just make it easier... list & forget)

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

You aren't FORCED to join a guild for anything.... but most things are made easier, quicker, more fun by doing so. Trading & guild traders included.

If you don't want to talk to others then no problem... but you need to be very aware that this is an MMO... the whole concept is built around being around people, being in groups with other people, helping each other, cooperating & social interaction.

If you hate / refuse to interact with the guild system that much then you should probably accept that this isn't the game for you... because ZoS's whole design philosophy is built around this & making people interact.

Your the third person who's tried this argument now.

Show me where the vendor is that I can use to sell to other players without a guild.

If you can't do that then don't say I need a guild.

Leeric · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of people are just complaining to complain. Why wont you people join a guild with the vendor?

Why do people keep suggesting I join guilds full of people I don't know who have no I treat in anything but trading, when trading something I have little interest in and only want to do it to make a little extra cash.

There are plenty of guilds that do other things besides trading that have good spots. Would you like an invite? I have 3 that aren't "trading guilds" and have a decent seller spot. Would you like an invite?
Like i said, just seems like you are complaining to complain. there are others as well, that have good location but dont classify themselves as trading guilds.

And you have little interest in trading but comment, and continue to do so on the forums? Thats doesn't make any sense, you clearly have interest in it...

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Victus wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Victus wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Never [join] a trading guild, if you can't figure [it] out just by looking and using a little common sense you will never get anywhere

FIFY

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

Supply and demand choses the prices in a AH prices go up and prices go down depending how much stock there is.

In the current system prices stay high to compensate the cost of the vendor.

Having a price that fluctuates is better than having prices fixed at a high price to being it the seller.

[edited to remove quote]

pugyourself · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

This. @liammozzb16_ESO, just swallow your pride and ask the GM for an invite already. If you go in with an open mind, you will have fun, make money, and enjoy the game a whole lot more.

It's not pride I refuse to join a flawed system that rewards the few over the many.

Flaminir wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No (But a Guild makes it easier to get a group!)

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No (But a guild makes it easier to get a group & do well)

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No (But guilds make it easier to swap/borrow/excahnge traits etc)

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes (NO... chat spam is often the quickest way & gets good prices. Guilds just make it easier... list & forget)

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

You aren't FORCED to join a guild for anything.... but most things are made easier, quicker, more fun by doing so. Trading & guild traders included.

If you don't want to talk to others then no problem... but you need to be very aware that this is an MMO... the whole concept is built around being around people, being in groups with other people, helping each other, cooperating & social interaction.

If you hate / refuse to interact with the guild system that much then you should probably accept that this isn't the game for you... because ZoS's whole design philosophy is built around this & making people interact.

Your the third person who's tried this argument now.

Show me where the vendor is that I can use to sell to other players without a guild.

If you can't do that then don't say I need a guild.

It's either pride or a false world view. You've stated many times that "guilds only serve to make the guild leader rich". This simply is not accurate. People have offered multiple ways for you to buy and sell without a guild but you simply refuse to hear it.

From your last thread where you clearly stated you want an auction house, I'm guessing that is the only remedy that you will accept for your perceived problem. At least be honest and state that fact for those who didn't have the benefit of reading your statements in the other thread.

Gandrhulf_Harbard · April 2015

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Auction House prices are also controlled by players. At least this way, inflation stays in check much better than it ever could on an auction house. So this reason you use in the above quote, is moot.

Er no.

The biggest inflationary effect on prices is the money required by trade guild to bid for a pitch.

This effect does not exist in an AH system.

@Athas24 The fact ESO uses a megaserver is wholly irrelevant. All you do is treat the megaserver as a single market place in the same way every other MMO uses a single server as a single market place.

OH BTW: WIldstar - uses megaserver AND Auction House.

All The Best

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Leeric wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of people are just complaining to complain. Why wont you people join a guild with the vendor?

Why do people keep suggesting I join guilds full of people I don't know who have no I treat in anything but trading, when trading something I have little interest in and only want to do it to make a little extra cash.

There are plenty of guilds that do other things besides trading that have good spots. Would you like an invite? I have 3 that aren't "trading guilds" and have a decent seller spot. Would you like an invite?
Like i said, just seems like you are complaining to complain. there are others as well, that have good location but dont classify themselves as trading guilds.

And you have little interest in trading but comment, and continue to do so on the forums? Thats doesn't make any sense, you clearly have interest in it...

I want to be able to put my items up for sale to other players as and when I feel like. What I don't want is someone saying you have to do so much so often. I also don't want to have to go though you or anyone else to do it.

Leeric · April 2015

tallenn wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of people are just complaining to complain. Why wont you people join a guild with the vendor?

Anyone who can invite for such a guild that won't kick me out for not posting items to sell every week, and won't charge me a ton of money to stay in, please shoot me an invite. Account name is same as forum name. Let's see where that goes.

What server are you on NA or EU?

My name is the same as well, send me a message or mail here or in game, ill see if we have room. Last I checked we were at 480.

maryriv · April 2015

You don't have to be in a guild to sell stuff, just sit in Rawl'kha all day shouting.

sagitter · April 2015

I like che current in game economy system.This system give the opportunity to all(even new players) to make good money, all you need is interactions and work. In a classic action house system, only grinders and old grinders player own the market economy with theire multiple inflated Goods.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

We purge about five people a week, maybe ten, with I believe a two week inactivity policy.

Our roster remains fairly static though.

My trading guild didn't form until late august of last year.

I would challenge you to do the same under modern conditions.

Actually, that was part of a post that I hadn't meant to save yet. (2 of my posts got combined into 1) Damn, you're quick, since that part was live for less than 30 secs before I deleted it lol.

But I would *absolutely* argue that it would be easier to fill a new trade guild today, a week after the launch of TU than it was in August of 2014 when we were almost 5 months past launch population. That, combined with the release of addons such as Master Merchant, can really help a trade guild fine-tune its store.

We went from 0-500 in 10 days because we promised (and delivered thanks to awesome officers and founding members) a really fun guild with a focus on trading.

Anyone, on any day, can form a standout guild and eventually bid on (and win) any kiosk they'd like. It took us about 7 months to get to that point. I can't speak for every large trade guild GM but I know many personally that feel the same way I do: having a fun & helpful guild comes before kiosk location. Hopefully the former gets you the latter. It worked for us.

I also don't believe ANY guild "owns" a location. Every Monday, we all bid and the highest bidder wins. If I win my bid, I consider myself very lucky. And if I don't, I focus on the guild having a great week in other ways.

I really dislike when people generalize with statements such as "GMs embezzle are getting rich on the backs of members" or "Trade Guilds are worthless, nothing ever happens and there's no interaction". Are these statements true in some guilds? Sure!

On the flipside, you have large trade guild GMs & Officers that spend dozens of hours of their time, whatever personal gold they can afford and even RL $$ as prizes. Whether it's weekly trivia, in-guild auctions, hide & seek, Horse Races in Cyrodiil, gigantic raffle prizes, the best guilds (trading or otherwise) make guild chat an entertaining place to be. If you desire that level of interactivity (not everyone does) there are MANY trade guilds doing much more than simply bidding on a kiosk every Monday!

BLEAKROCK BARTER CO FTW

This. @liammozzb16_ESO, just swallow your pride and ask the GM for an invite already. If you go in with an open mind, you will have fun, make money, and enjoy the game a whole lot more.

It's not pride I refuse to join a flawed system that rewards the few over the many.

Flaminir wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Mishanya wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

This is the price of comfort, you can spam chat with your sellings for free, or pay to guild for privilege to put your sellings on sale and go offline.

You quoted what I said but ignored it completely.

You want nobody to force you to be in guild, but nobody does.
You can spam chat to sell, but if you want to sell through vendor, you should pay for this - you should pay to vendor, you should pay to guildleaders for worries about vendor hiring. But you just want everything for free.

Do I have to be in a guild to quest? No

Do I have to be in a guild to do dungeons/trials? No (But a Guild makes it easier to get a group!)

Do I have to be in a guild to PvP? No (But a guild makes it easier to get a group & do well)

Do I have to be in a guild to craft? No (But guilds make it easier to swap/borrow/excahnge traits etc)

Do I have to be in a guild to sell my items though the most effective way to sell items the vendors? Yes (NO... chat spam is often the quickest way & gets good prices. Guilds just make it easier... list & forget)

Don't say I am not forced into a guild to partake in a core aspect of the game because I am.

You aren't FORCED to join a guild for anything.... but most things are made easier, quicker, more fun by doing so. Trading & guild traders included.

If you don't want to talk to others then no problem... but you need to be very aware that this is an MMO... the whole concept is built around being around people, being in groups with other people, helping each other, cooperating & social interaction.

If you hate / refuse to interact with the guild system that much then you should probably accept that this isn't the game for you... because ZoS's whole design philosophy is built around this & making people interact.

Your the third person who's tried this argument now.

Show me where the vendor is that I can use to sell to other players without a guild.

If you can't do that then don't say I need a guild.

It's either pride or a false world view. You've stated many times that "guilds only serve to make the guild leader rich". This simply is not accurate. People have offered multiple ways for you to buy and sell without a guild but you simply refuse to hear it.

From your last thread where you clearly stated you want an auction house, I'm guessing that is the only remedy that you will accept for your perceived problem. At least be honest and state that fact for those who didn't have the benefit of reading your statements in the other thread.

It's not a sandbox game so allowing everyone to have vendors won't work because the worlds not big enough to hold them.

The only viable option is a AH

hiyde · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you know how hard that it to believe, if you are having to your going out of pocket to keep it running then there's no profit in it so why would you stay it's counter intuitive.

It's very clear from all of your posts that you will not believe this, but:

There are a lot of Guild (trading and other) GMs and Officers that draw enjoyment from creating a fun & successful atmosphere and aren't in it to personally profit.

Many of us LIKE coming up with contests, raffles & events for our guildmates to enjoy.

If I wanted to make a pile of gold in game, leading a large trade guild is the *last* way I'd go about it lol.

tallenn · April 2015

Leeric wrote: »

tallenn wrote: »

Leeric wrote: »

Sounds like a lot of people are just complaining to complain. Why wont you people join a guild with the vendor?

Anyone who can invite for such a guild that won't kick me out for not posting items to sell every week, and won't charge me a ton of money to stay in, please shoot me an invite. Account name is same as forum name. Let's see where that goes.

What server are you on NA or EU?

My name is the same as well, send me a message or mail here or in game, ill see if we have room. Last I checked we were at 480.

NA

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

hiyde wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Do you know how hard that it to believe, if you are having to your going out of pocket to keep it running then there's no profit in it so why would you stay it's counter intuitive.

It's very clear from all of your posts that you will not believe this, but:

There are a lot of Guild (trading and other) GMs and Officers that draw enjoyment from creating a fun & successful atmosphere and aren't in it to personally profit.

Many of us LIKE coming up with contests, raffles & events for our guildmates to enjoy.

If I wanted to make a pile of gold in game, leading a large trade guild is the *last* way I'd go about it lol.

If anything then you just proved the system is broken if you can't profit from it.