The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

No one would put up with it if the forced you to be in a guild to do anything else, so why accept it with selling?

Imagine having to be in a guild before you could quest and the guild leader gets a cut of all your earnings.

Same thing goes for doing Dungeons or trials.

I shouldn't have to go through some 3rd party I don't even know and give him a cut of my earnings just to sell a item on a vendor.

Glurin · April 2015

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Divad Zarn · April 2015

So don't go, no one forcing you to do so, there are more ways to trade besides of guild store. Or join guild where guild leader don't gets a cut from sales.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

What?

I can sell on the Internet with no bothering anyone. So that point is a bit moot.

Divad Zarn wrote: »

So don't go, no one forcing you to do so, there are more ways to trade besides of guild store. Or join guild where guild leader don't gets a cut from sales.

Show me one way I can sell my goods while being offline like the guild vendors can, without being forced into a guild.

SteveCampsOut · April 2015

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

Arato · April 2015

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

pugyourself · April 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.

driosketch · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

So don't go, no one forcing you to do so, there are more ways to trade besides of guild store. Or join guild where guild leader don't gets a cut from sales.

Show me one way I can sell my goods while being offline like the guild vendors can, without being forced into a guild.

Well it seems to me your options are join a guild and put up with it for the convenience while others do all the work, or start your on guild/trade directly while online and not worry about others dipping into the shared funds. Funds that likely go to hiring a kiosk anyways.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

I'm all for instanced neighborhoods for player housing. Once you have a house I think you should be able to hire a NPC vendor to sell your wares. Maybe even hang a sign on your door which indicates the type of goods you sell.

Until that time, guild stores serve us well.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

[...]

[...]

Actually I did give two ways of doing it in the other thread.

The SWG way where I have my own vendors to sell things and the traditional way of a AH.

Granted individual vendors would be hard to implement but give me a month or 2 and I could make it work.

The other way is AH one in all the main cities that are not linked. That way their is still incentive to travel to find a good deal.

So everyone doesn't use one AH you give tax discount on posting items. If you don't post your items in your own races Capitol then you have to pay 1000g to post an item instead of 10g.

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Arato · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

Okay in Guild Wars 2, where there is a global AH, there's a few rare items that due to insider trading with information provided by people who are privileged with the preview server access shoot up exponentially in price, and these small groups of people can control the economy and get exorbitantly wealthy with it, while everything else races to price floor due to the entire world trying to undercut each other.

Here, yes there are some common items with no real value, but prices are competitve withour racing to a floor, and there's not a small group of people who control the prices on everything valuable.

The fact that some people will pay more for convenience instead of hunting through 16 different zones and 30 kiosks for the absolute best price allows for values of items to fluctuate between guild stores and not all race to the bottom. it also allows you as a buyer the opportunity to hunt for a killer deal, where in a global auction house, it benefits the buyer only because everything races to a price floor with 1 copper undercuts every 5s. Also, with this decentralized system, a shrewd merchant can find a killer deal on a backwater kiosk, and then resell for market value over their guild kiosk. Those opportunities are ruined when it's a global AH.

Think about it for a moment, you're asking for Walmart to take over the entire retail sector and put everyone else out of budiness.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.

That's right. There is no internet in Tamriel. There is no global market place. You should have to shop around and when you find a vendor who sells what you like and is always stocked, you should always shop there first.

Global auction houses ruined player shops in game. I for one want to see them back.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I'm all for instanced neighborhoods for player housing. Once you have a house I think you should be able to hire a NPC vendor to sell your wares. Maybe even hang a sign on your door which indicates the type of goods you sell.

Until that time, guild stores serve us well.

I like that idea but it still splits up all the different vendors to the point you have to search vendor after vendor.

Amsel_McKay · April 2015

I was in a trading guild and I would sell 100-200k a week in that guild, then I started to get the lotto emails that did not seem to work... Then I got the to stay in guild fee email... I did not want to pay 1k a week to be in a trade guild so I ended up being kicked.

I got kicked from another guild because I did not sell enough items each week (I was warned I needed to sell at least 20k a week), but their trader was is a bad location so I did not sell enough with them.

I got kicked from another guild because they decided that (at some point) that it is a 5 day inactive policy... I had the max auctions running in that guild... and I only play weekends so something happened there.

I am currently in a guild that just started lotto thing and is starting to change their inactive polity (down to 7 days) and are requiring sales each week...

Why cant there be a guild that the server auto joins you to that has a trader in a normal location with a max of 1000 people so we dont have to put up with all these BAD guilds with requirements to add another un-enjoyable part to the game.

SteveCampsOut · April 2015

I don't mind the search, I just think that other players should not be in charge of the gateway! It's just that simple. In DAoC we had vendors on our houses. Other MMO's have individual kiosks that the player can purchase. There are more options out there than just Auction house or this current Guild Store method. It would be nice if a thread like this could discuss other options without it devolving into an us vs them auction house vs guild leader war!

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.

That's right. There is no internet in Tamriel. There is no global market place. You should have to shop around and when you find a vendor who sells what you like and is always stocked, you should always shop there first.

Global auction houses ruined player shops in game. I for one want to see them back.

Your talking to someone who played SWG I was a crafter and merchant, I never fired a shot off in my life. Being a merchant was a full time job there was no room for questing and exploring. I had my little shop and my repeat customers I even had a few guilds who had a contract with me to keep them in comp armour. I would advertise in cnet. People knew they could rely on me and kept coming back.

This isn't like that though merchant isn't a class, it's a side activity at best to sell some decent loot you got. So no not going to put the time in like I did on SWG to sell stuff because it's not a main part of the game like it was in SWG.

C3N50R3D · April 2015

I would just be happy with more guild slots.

Divad Zarn · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

pugyourself · April 2015

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

I don't mind the search, I just think that other players should not be in charge of the gateway! It's just that simple. In DAoC we had vendors on our houses. Other MMO's have individual kiosks that the player can purchase. There are more options out there than just Auction house or this current Guild Store method. It would be nice if a thread like this could discuss other options without it devolving into an us vs them auction house vs guild leader war!

I would support kiosks for individuals by lowering the number of members required to bid on a kiosk to "1" instead of 5.

It is hard not to devolve into guild vs. auction house when the real point of a lot of these threads is to simply promote an auction house, an implementation that would destroy this game's vibrant community-focused economies.

Also, when the argument starts off with a complete lie (I.e. guild leader gets the profits) it's hard to have a reasonable discussion on the matter.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]
[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Arato · April 2015

The thing about guild requirements is due to the fact that kiosks are also competitive, which makes trading guilds compete over high traffic kiosks. Bid prices on those NPC's can be in the millions of gold.

You're saying you want the guild leader to front the money for that each week out of their own pocket? No. Some guilds have fees, some have more voluntary systems like raffles.

SteveCampsOut · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

I don't mind the search, I just think that other players should not be in charge of the gateway! It's just that simple. In DAoC we had vendors on our houses. Other MMO's have individual kiosks that the player can purchase. There are more options out there than just Auction house or this current Guild Store method. It would be nice if a thread like this could discuss other options without it devolving into an us vs them auction house vs guild leader war!

I would support kiosks for individuals by lowering the number of members required to bid on a kiosk to "1" instead of 5.

It is hard not to devolve into guild vs. auction house when the real point of a lot of these threads is to simply promote an auction house, an implementation that would destroy this game's vibrant community-focused economies.

Also, when the argument starts off with a complete lie (I.e. guild leader gets the profits) it's hard to have a reasonable discussion on the matter.

For the record, I run a small casual trade guild on both the EU and NA servers. We've had our kiosk on and off. I have also been a part of large trade guilds as well as a trade conglomerate where one GM ruled over three different trade guilds, one in each faction and let me tell you. What was done with the income from raffles and donations and how he treated the GM's of the subordinate guilds, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. So, just to keep it short and sweet, the OP isn't lying about GM's that pocket money. Not by a long shot.

Elijah_Crow · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.

That's right. There is no internet in Tamriel. There is no global market place. You should have to shop around and when you find a vendor who sells what you like and is always stocked, you should always shop there first.

Global auction houses ruined player shops in game. I for one want to see them back.

Your talking to someone who played SWG I was a crafter and merchant, I never fired a shot off in my life. Being a merchant was a full time job there was no room for questing and exploring. I had my little shop and my repeat customers I even had a few guilds who had a contract with me to keep them in comp armour. I would advertise in cnet. People knew they could rely on me and kept coming back.

This isn't like that though merchant isn't a class, it's a side activity at best to sell some decent loot you got. So no not going to put the time in like I did on SWG to sell stuff because it's not a main part of the game like it was in SWG.

True, but I wouldn't mind being able to craft custom armor from my house on appt. Also an old SWG player from Starsider. Just because it's not a full time profession doesn't mean it can't add a great deal to the game. Just put in instanced neighborhoods and housing and sell furniture in the Crown Shop and boom, instant revenue stream which doesn't equate to pay 2 win. Here to hoping.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

[...]

Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.

Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.

In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.

A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000

Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.

So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.

In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.

I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.

EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.

[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

Divad Zarn · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

I feel like your personal arrogance talk's besides of you If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

That's where you're wrong and you're a *** judge of character too. I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

And again u talk as blind kid which don't see anything besides of hes nose. First of all, TAX from sells are up to 7%, 3.5% going in black hole and goldsink, 3.5% into guild bank, thats first. Second, how the heck guild should contribute bid for NPC trader up to 3M gold each week without this? can u answer this simple question? with your plan to refund money to those who left it? you know how much problems this will create with this stupid system u already mention? or you think u'r more qualified worker then whole ZOS team who long time was thinking about this system? Again, your personal arrogance talks besides of you with this "i dont want someone to take my money!", dont pay to government then, dont pay to those who own supermarkets, dont pay extra taxes for everything you doing and u will be in jail very soon. Best part of this game is economy, because its ALIVE, not dead like in many other games with AH, so stop *** around of it.

Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.

Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.

In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.

A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000

Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.

So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.

In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.

I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.

You know what that means? that new/low quality guilds will NEVER reach top line and there is why: low location or newly founded guilds making in best way 500k-1M gold sells, while tops making 50M-100M each week, u just taking away priority from new/young guilds to take their place in ESO world, imo its totally wrong. But in other way i personally would be very happy if there will be more interaction of non guild members in economy, same example u mention about SWG, it would be great to see such thing in ESO, but we dont even get housing yet so who knows when such thing will be possible, but AH will ruin "alive" economy system, the only thing what i'm doing in this game is crafting/trading, because everything else makes me boring for a very long time already (i play since pre order) so i really like competition we have on economy atm.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

Not even close to being an appropriate analogy! Tamriel is not owned by any of these guild leaders with the strangle hold on our current economy. Nor does Walmart own America, yet. You can still rent a space right next door to Walmart and open a store without any permission from the Walton family!

And anyone can also start a guild. The cut goes into the guild bank, which is publicly viewable by members. If the leader is embezzling, I'd advise finding another guild. However I don't think this practice is very common. Guild stores add a fun element to the game and they keep economies local. That's a good thing. Auction houses simply destroy local economies, turn towns into ghost towns, and drive prices of most goods to the bottom. The guild system functions wonderfully for trading and anyone is allowed to start a guild if they don't like existing ones.

How do they keep it local? I can visit any vendor on the map? If one vendor hasn't got it I have to keep traveling all over the map to 16 different locations to try find it. Where none of them could have it, making it a big waste of time. Where if it was just in the main city's where everyone is anyway it wouldn't be a problem.

That's right. There is no internet in Tamriel. There is no global market place. You should have to shop around and when you find a vendor who sells what you like and is always stocked, you should always shop there first.

Global auction houses ruined player shops in game. I for one want to see them back.

Your talking to someone who played SWG I was a crafter and merchant, I never fired a shot off in my life. Being a merchant was a full time job there was no room for questing and exploring. I had my little shop and my repeat customers I even had a few guilds who had a contract with me to keep them in comp armour. I would advertise in cnet. People knew they could rely on me and kept coming back.

This isn't like that though merchant isn't a class, it's a side activity at best to sell some decent loot you got. So no not going to put the time in like I did on SWG to sell stuff because it's not a main part of the game like it was in SWG.

True, but I wouldn't mind being able to craft custom armor from my house on appt. Also an old SWG player from Starsider. Just because it's not a full time profession doesn't mean it can't add a great deal to the game. Just put in instanced neighborhoods and housing and sell furniture in the Crown Shop and boom, instant revenue stream which doesn't equate to pay 2 win. Here to hoping.

As someone who loved my holiday house on tattooine I would love this.

If I didn't have to kill to level up crafting and could totally focus on it I would be all for it because I could advertise my stuff. Without being able to that I'll just be flooded amongst the 1000's of others their.

Could you imagine paying someone on ESO to take you out in the wide to collect mats haha.

I was on bloodfin.

pugyourself · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

[...]

Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.

Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.

In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.

A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000

Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.

So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.

In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.

I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.

EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.

But the money doesn't go to the guild leader. It goes to the guild. Why don't you understand this? Just because someone has anecdotal evidence that a guild leader may steal doesn't mean that's the way things work. Money does not go to the guild leader.

As far as your idea goes, you will quickly end up with a few guilds controlling the best spot in perpetuity. Here's why: you reward the top performing guild with the best spot. This makes it exponentially more likely that they will achieve the top spot the following week (due to the best location award). The effect becomes greater every week until there are 3 top guilds and then everyone else. It works like concentration of capital works in real life economies and results on just the kind of inequity that you claim to abhor.

[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

[...]

Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.

Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.

In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.

A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000

Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.

So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.

In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.

I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.

You know what that means? that new/low quality guilds will NEVER reach top line and there is why: low location or newly founded guilds making in best way 500k-1M gold sells, while tops making 50M-100M each week, u just taking away priority from new/young guilds to take their place in ESO world, imo its totally wrong. But in other way i personally would be very happy if there will be more interaction of non guild members in economy, same example u mention about SWG, it would be great to see such thing in ESO, but we dont even get housing yet so who knows when such thing will be possible, but AH will ruin "alive" economy system, the only thing what i'm doing in this game is crafting/trading, because everything else makes me boring for a very long time already (i play since pre order) so i really like competition we have on economy atm.

The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.

The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

pugyourself wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Divad Zarn wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

What about the fact you have to travel across 16 zones and around 60 vendors to find a good price?

I would be more inclined by the idea of the gold went into a money sink and not the guild leaders pocket.

I would also like to sell how often I want and still be able for my good to be seen in a main city and not some back water no one visits.

But most of all I don't want to rely on a player or have other players rely on me to have the ability to sell on vendors.

If you would be a guildmaster i'm 100% sure that u would steal money from guild bank like this, of course, BUT it doesnt mean that other guildmasters doing same, there are alot of guilds where GMs are fair and care about guild with dont taking anything from it, so your position about "GOLD GOING INTO OTHERS POCKED I"M MAD DELETE IT ADD AUC HAUSE PLS PLS" is totally wrong. Also in many trading guilds everyone can invite, so its not controlled fully by 1 person as u said.

I wouldn't be a guild master in a trade guild simply because I wouldn't want other people's money going to me.

If zeni wanted to be fair about it, that money would have gone into an untouchable pot.

Each vendor has a ranking the guild who made the most money the week before gets the best spot and so forth. Any money left over gets refunded back to the person who made it.

See in less than 30 seconds I just came up with a way to have your guild vendors without a 3rd party player having any control over everyone's gold.

[...]

Me thinks you never read what I said I'll try again and go into a bit more detail for you.

Say we have three guilds: a, b and c.

In the first week the guilds make the following collectively.

A. 10,000
B. 50,000
C. 1,000,000

Each vendor around the world has a rank. The better it is and the higher it's rank is.

So at the start of the week C made the most money so the get the rank 1 vendor. B gets the rank 2 and C gets the rank 3.

In this process no gold has passed to the guild leader at all and the best trading guild got the best spot.

I just have to figure out a way to make membership fair that rewards the sellers and punishes the slackers.

EDIT: oh yeah sometimes I do think I am better at coming up with game mechanics sometimes, because I wouldn't have used players as a core mechanic in the trading system or any system for that mater. That's just common sense.

But the money doesn't go to the guild leader. It goes to the guild. Why don't you understand this? Just because someone has anecdotal evidence that a guild leader may steal doesn't mean that's the way things work. Money does not go to the guild leader.

As far as your idea goes, you will quickly end up with a few guilds controlling the best spot in perpetuity. Here's why: you reward the top performing guild with the best spot. This makes it exponentially more likely that they will achieve the top spot the following week (due to the best location award). The effect becomes greater every week until there are 3 top guilds and then everyone else. It works like concentration of capital works in real life economies and results on just the kind of inequity that you claim to abhor.

So you are saying anyone in the guild can withdraw that money from the guild?

The only way I can think of the top of my head to fix that is the guilds aren't owned by the players.

The guilds become leagues each league has 500 users. Sell more go higher up the league sell more how lower down. That means even if you are low level you can still work your way up to the best vendor on the game.

[Moderator Note: Edited quotes to match moderated versions]
[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]