The need to be in a guild to sell through vendors should be removed.

Athas24 · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

And even though the game is now B2P I am actually paying for a subscription. But I con't honestly say how long that will continue as long as I am constantly stonewalled by an entirely dysfunctional trade system.

1. the amount of characters you have is irrelevant to the trade system. I have all my slots maxed but the guilds are account wide so who cares?
2. it sounds like you are not in enough guilds for trade. Personally, I have my 1 guild for social interaction and 4 guilds for trading. I can sell 120 items at a time and they sell within a matter of hours/days using the current system. If your unable to find the items you want/need going to main cities that would be a first I've heard of. There are so may items out there that are only a wayshrine away in each central city. Thats in addition to your trade guilds that you can have access to for sales.
3. zone chat in the major cities works pretty quickly too as a last resort for sales AND purchases

Do you really just want cheap goods available to you that bad for crafting so you don't have to stop now and again to harvest them? Materials are all over the place and extremely accessible even for those who don't farm them (like myself). A Global Trade house would ruin the economy. Newer players can and will adapt to the current system because they need to to trade. This will make sales even more profitable for those guilds who are currently having issues gaining enough members to own an external vendor.

Funny how your second point totally contradicts the part about new players and guilds.

Out of the 122 guild vendors only about 20 of them are in good spots. Those spots are taken by the same guilds week in week out.

There's no market for new guilds they are relegated to the back waters where no one bothers to look.

The whole system is flawed so stop acting like its this wonderful free open market where anyone can make it because it's not.

If you can't get into one of the top 20 trade guilds your screwed. 2500 places in a game with over 100,000 copies sold. It's a [snip] joke.

Any new guild can compete. Get enough members, Get them to donate like the other guilds do. Compete vs current price for a slot in a major city. 2k/member at 300 members out of 400 possible in any NEW guild can do it, easily. They would have 600k to barter which can compete with any other major trade house out there. It's not impossible to do so. The other guilds got where they are by doing Exactly that.

[edited to remove quote]

Sylvyr · April 2015

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard I can understand peoples comments about a centralised system. I just don't think it's a good thing for various reasons I've posted multiple times. You may as well change the name of whatever it would become to "Pound/Dollar Store" as everything will ultimately be cheapened.

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

I have no idea where you are coming from with this statement. I started in January. I have 7 characters (4 are mules). 3 are maxed in Enchanting, Woodwork, Clothing, Blacksmithing. I've not bothered with the others as I have friends who do this and can give me the stuff when I need it (provisioning or potions). How on earth is the trade system actually preventing you from doing that? I can only assume it's because you want to purchase the mats you need rather than go and look for them. If so, that's not a trade issue, that's a personal preference issue

If there is a change that needs to be made.....and I'm not saying that there should be....then the obvious one would be adding a "half way house" where anyone can join (subject to not being part of another guild) and you can list/add 30 items to the system there. I tell you one thing right now however, there will be sooooo much crap on that site it will be un-real. Every Tom *** and harry will be posting up their 15 Iron Ore for 100g or 7 Raw Birch for 50g. I would HATE to see the size of the DB filled with crap, having 100's of people constantly loading it and reloading it and searching it..... *Shudders for the BI guys in ZoS*

But guess what, what if I need just 15 Iron Ore to make something for an Alt or a Friend and I am so over-level for Iron Ore I can't be bothered to go farm it?

Every other major MMO has an AH that works just like your feared example, and every other major MMO gets on just fine with it in terms of player satisfaction, and most of them are doing at least as well financially as ESO, if not better.

The very worst AH system I have ever seen would be a 1000% improvement on the current trade system.

If a game wants to enjoy increased revenue from more players it must add something that attracts more players.

The current system has too many hurdles putting people off.

You need 50+ Members in a guild just to be able to trade.
Then you need tens of thousands of gold spare each week just to get a shot at any kiosk, and far more than that to get any hope of a decent kiosk.

The money involved there over inflates the prices of goods creating further barriers to inclusion for casual players. Casual players want as much inclusion in the game-world as they can get, without the "work" involved in playing an MMO in a hard-core manner. Casual players are now the bread-and-butter of the MMO industry. The hard-core player market simply doesn't exist in MMOs anymore, well not for the kind of player numbers required to cover the investment in a game as big as ESO.

And if you doubt that last sentence go look at Wildstar. A brilliant game in many ways, brought low by its excessive obsession with keeping things "hard-core". Less than a year in they were scaling back the hard-core elements and that was after they launched the game with a B2P model built-in.

I don't mind a bit of hard-core content, especially in dungeons and raids - heck I actually expect it. But a hardcore grindfest just to be able to sell a few things via trade? No way.

Now the game has gone the B2P the current trade system's day are numbered - casual players just won't accept it.

The very best thing Zeni can do is accept that now and start working on an AH-like system than can be shipped when the game launches on Console.

The very worst thing they can do is listen to the people telling them the trade system debacle isn't an issue - that way lies less customers.

All The Best

Spot on.

Suggestion #827192836:
ADD to the current system a PUBLIC vendors in major cities. Listing items with the public vendor would incur a slightly higher tax/fee than a guild vendor (10-20%?).

People that want convenience and non-hassle of guild hoops will profit less OR increase selling price to make up for convenience, passing convenience expenses onto buyers as well.

People that want deals can hop around guild vendors.

win-win?

Thymos · April 2015

Athas24 wrote: »

The fact that YOU don't want to deal with middlemen has nothing to do with its effect on the game's economy or its survival. That's simply your opinion. The fact remains that the market would crash and thats clearly a bad thing. Also adding vendors adds competition. I didn't say add 50 vendors to each city so every garbage guild can sell their 10 clear waters for 200 gold...

It's what he did in the other thread. He is just restating his opinion, without showing any proof that the current system is flawed other than the fact that he doesn't like it.

Fact: more than half of the players do not feel like they are being screwed by the current system.

Fact: more people here are vocal in support of the current system.

Fact: the in-game economy is very stable.

Fact: video games take time to do certain things in them.

Fact: a majority of the guilds that own kiosks, even the good locations, aren't as up tight as claimed.

Complaining about having to spend a little time to search a few guild stores is irrelevant, as that is how the system is designed. Next you will complain about how questing wastes time, then harvesting materials, then crafting, and eventually you'll just be asking for a skip button so you can just skip ahead to exactly what you want.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Athas24 wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

And even though the game is now B2P I am actually paying for a subscription. But I con't honestly say how long that will continue as long as I am constantly stonewalled by an entirely dysfunctional trade system.

1. the amount of characters you have is irrelevant to the trade system. I have all my slots maxed but the guilds are account wide so who cares?
2. it sounds like you are not in enough guilds for trade. Personally, I have my 1 guild for social interaction and 4 guilds for trading. I can sell 120 items at a time and they sell within a matter of hours/days using the current system. If your unable to find the items you want/need going to main cities that would be a first I've heard of. There are so may items out there that are only a wayshrine away in each central city. Thats in addition to your trade guilds that you can have access to for sales.
3. zone chat in the major cities works pretty quickly too as a last resort for sales AND purchases

Do you really just want cheap goods available to you that bad for crafting so you don't have to stop now and again to harvest them? Materials are all over the place and extremely accessible even for those who don't farm them (like myself). A Global Trade house would ruin the economy. Newer players can and will adapt to the current system because they need to to trade. This will make sales even more profitable for those guilds who are currently having issues gaining enough members to own an external vendor.

Funny how your second point totally contradicts the part about new players and guilds.

Out of the 122 guild vendors only about 20 of them are in good spots. Those spots are taken by the same guilds week in week out.

There's no market for new guilds they are relegated to the back waters where no one bothers to look.

The whole system is flawed so stop acting like its this wonderful free open market where anyone can make it because it's not.

If you can't get into one of the top 20 trade guilds your screwed. 2500 places in a game with over 100,000 copies sold. It's a [snip] joke.

Any new guild can compete. Get enough members, Get them to donate like the other guilds do. Compete vs current price for a slot in a major city. 2k/member at 300 members out of 400 possible in any NEW guild can do it, easily. They would have 600k to barter which can compete with any other major trade house out there. It's not impossible to do so. The other guilds got where they are by doing Exactly that.

Yeah that new guild can easily out bid your well established guild that's got millions to keep out biding them.

[snip] No one gets in the best stops apart from the same guilds that are in them week in week out without fail.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Thymos · April 2015

The market guild I am in that has a Daggerfall City kiosk, just recently got that kiosk last week. So, I beg to differ.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

Most of the replies thus far seem to be "IF YOU DON'T LIKE GUILD STORES YOU DON'T LIKE INTERACTING WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE INTERACTING WITH THE COMMUNITY, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING AN MMO?"

Non-sequitr's all around.

Or you can start your own guild with four other people and sell your stuff in a kiosk

Kiosks require tons of gold to bid for, in the millions from what I've heard.
Guilds acquire this gold through their tons of members selling tons of items in a kiosk.
Guilds need to be desirable to have tons of members to begin with.
A Guild without a kiosk isn't desirable.

Only the most popular guilds own kiosks.
My guild is popular, owns a kiosk, and is constantly full.
No one is able to join my guild, and I assume other guilds have a similar situation.
Thus a significant amount of the population (such as the OP) is locked out of guild trading altogether.

Mishanya · April 2015

Sylvyr wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

@Gandrhulf_Harbard I can understand peoples comments about a centralised system. I just don't think it's a good thing for various reasons I've posted multiple times. You may as well change the name of whatever it would become to "Pound/Dollar Store" as everything will ultimately be cheapened.

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

I have no idea where you are coming from with this statement. I started in January. I have 7 characters (4 are mules). 3 are maxed in Enchanting, Woodwork, Clothing, Blacksmithing. I've not bothered with the others as I have friends who do this and can give me the stuff when I need it (provisioning or potions). How on earth is the trade system actually preventing you from doing that? I can only assume it's because you want to purchase the mats you need rather than go and look for them. If so, that's not a trade issue, that's a personal preference issue

If there is a change that needs to be made.....and I'm not saying that there should be....then the obvious one would be adding a "half way house" where anyone can join (subject to not being part of another guild) and you can list/add 30 items to the system there. I tell you one thing right now however, there will be sooooo much crap on that site it will be un-real. Every Tom *** and harry will be posting up their 15 Iron Ore for 100g or 7 Raw Birch for 50g. I would HATE to see the size of the DB filled with crap, having 100's of people constantly loading it and reloading it and searching it..... *Shudders for the BI guys in ZoS*

But guess what, what if I need just 15 Iron Ore to make something for an Alt or a Friend and I am so over-level for Iron Ore I can't be bothered to go farm it?

Every other major MMO has an AH that works just like your feared example, and every other major MMO gets on just fine with it in terms of player satisfaction, and most of them are doing at least as well financially as ESO, if not better.

The very worst AH system I have ever seen would be a 1000% improvement on the current trade system.

If a game wants to enjoy increased revenue from more players it must add something that attracts more players.

The current system has too many hurdles putting people off.

You need 50+ Members in a guild just to be able to trade.
Then you need tens of thousands of gold spare each week just to get a shot at any kiosk, and far more than that to get any hope of a decent kiosk.

The money involved there over inflates the prices of goods creating further barriers to inclusion for casual players. Casual players want as much inclusion in the game-world as they can get, without the "work" involved in playing an MMO in a hard-core manner. Casual players are now the bread-and-butter of the MMO industry. The hard-core player market simply doesn't exist in MMOs anymore, well not for the kind of player numbers required to cover the investment in a game as big as ESO.

And if you doubt that last sentence go look at Wildstar. A brilliant game in many ways, brought low by its excessive obsession with keeping things "hard-core". Less than a year in they were scaling back the hard-core elements and that was after they launched the game with a B2P model built-in.

I don't mind a bit of hard-core content, especially in dungeons and raids - heck I actually expect it. But a hardcore grindfest just to be able to sell a few things via trade? No way.

Now the game has gone the B2P the current trade system's day are numbered - casual players just won't accept it.

The very best thing Zeni can do is accept that now and start working on an AH-like system than can be shipped when the game launches on Console.

The very worst thing they can do is listen to the people telling them the trade system debacle isn't an issue - that way lies less customers.

All The Best

Spot on.

Suggestion #827192836:
ADD to the current system a PUBLIC vendors in major cities. Listing items with the public vendor would incur a slightly higher tax/fee than a guild vendor (10-20%?).

People that want convenience and non-hassle of guild hoops will profit less OR increase selling price to make up for convenience, passing convenience expenses onto buyers as well.

People that want deals can hop around guild vendors.

win-win?

Someone stole my idea, I suggested earlier in this thread.
But I told it for fun, because I doubt reasonable amount of people will use such vendors.

pugyourself · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

pugyourself wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Having the economy be guild oriented and decentralized is a good thing, it keeps prices competitive and prevents a small group of people from completely hijacking the market for a particular rare item and skyrocketing the price.

You mean like the few large trading guilds that have cornered the market?

Can you provide evidence that "few large trading guilds have cornered the market"? For what products? What market? What guilds?

Great question. I can't think of a single guild that owns any single piece of the market in specific

The same guilds have the best vendor spots every week

Actually, they don't. Some of the best spots have a completely different set of vendors today than they did a month ago. This is the case for THE best spot in the game as well as in several major hubs.

Thymos · April 2015

golfer.dub17_ESO wrote: »

Most of the replies thus far seem to be "IF YOU DON'T LIKE GUILD STORES YOU DON'T LIKE INTERACTING WITH THE COMMUNITY, AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE INTERACTING WITH THE COMMUNITY, WHY ARE YOU PLAYING AN MMO?"

Non-sequitr's all around.

Or you can start your own guild with four other people and sell your stuff in a kiosk

Kiosks require tons of gold to bid for.
Guilds get tons of gold through their tons of members selling tons of items in a kiosk.
Guilds need to be desirable to have tons of members to begin with.
A Guild without a kiosk isn't desirable.

Yet that doesn't stop people from actually joining the guilds that spam recruitment in the zone chats. Remember, they wouldn't spam it in zone if people didn't join, because of it.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

The fact that YOU don't want to deal with middlemen has nothing to do with its effect on the game's economy or its survival. That's simply your opinion. The fact remains that the market would crash and thats clearly a bad thing. Also adding vendors adds competition. I didn't say add 50 vendors to each city so every garbage guild can sell their 10 clear waters for 200 gold...

It's what he did in the other thread. He is just restating his opinion, without showing any proof that the current system is flawed other than the fact that he doesn't like it.

Fact: more than half of the players do not feel like they are being screwed by the current system.

Fact: more people here are vocal in support of the current system.

Fact: the in-game economy is very stable.

Fact: video games take time to do certain things in them.

Fact: a majority of the guilds that own kiosks, even the good locations, aren't as up tight as claimed.

Complaining about having to spend a little time to search a few guild stores is irrelevant, as that is how the system is designed. Next you will complain about how questing wastes time, then harvesting materials, then crafting, and eventually you'll just be asking for a skip button so you can just skip ahead to exactly what you want.

None of what you just said is fact.

You would have had to speak to everyone who plays the game to claim any of that as fact.

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

The fact that YOU don't want to deal with middlemen has nothing to do with its effect on the game's economy or its survival. That's simply your opinion. The fact remains that the market would crash and thats clearly a bad thing. Also adding vendors adds competition. I didn't say add 50 vendors to each city so every garbage guild can sell their 10 clear waters for 200 gold...

It's what he did in the other thread. He is just restating his opinion, without showing any proof that the current system is flawed other than the fact that he doesn't like it.

Fact: more than half of the players do not feel like they are being screwed by the current system.

Fact: more people here are vocal in support of the current system.

Fact: the in-game economy is very stable.

Fact: video games take time to do certain things in them.

Fact: a majority of the guilds that own kiosks, even the good locations, aren't as up tight as claimed.

Complaining about having to spend a little time to search a few guild stores is irrelevant, as that is how the system is designed. Next you will complain about how questing wastes time, then harvesting materials, then crafting, and eventually you'll just be asking for a skip button so you can just skip ahead to exactly what you want.

None of what you just said is fact.

You would have had to speak to everyone who plays the game to claim any of that as fact.

Just like majority getting screwed over. I digress, you're just going to ignore most of my posts anyways, because they don't support your opinion.

Victus · April 2015

tallenn wrote: »

Here's the problem. A very vocal group of people like the system the way it is, and why wouldn't they? They are part of a select group who belong to trade guilds that have those highly-sought after kiosks. They have thousands, even hundreds of thousands of potential customers, while the vast majority of their competitors have only a tiny fraction of that.

Well, the same could be said about a "very vocal group of people does not like the system the way it is". But, similar to what I have already posted earlier, I am also NOT part of a trading guild with a kiosk, and I like the system just fine.

tallenn wrote: »

The only way to make it stop working for the select few is to stop buying from them. Want change? You have to be willing to sacrifice to make it happen. Stop using guild kiosks, period. Convince everyone you come across that complains about the current system to do the same. Yes, that means you'll have to use chat to buy and sell, or just do without. It's not easy to be an activist. If enough of us refuse to participate, then it will crash and burn. The select few trading with just one another will not be enough to keep it going. They need us to prey off of.Stop allowing yourself to be prey. Stop buying from them. If you've managed to get yourself into one of these guilds (though you are against the current system), stop selling stuff on the guild store.

I do agree with the concept of not buying if you don't like it, be it from a guild you think is "shady", to buying an overpriced item. Just don't do it.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

The fact that YOU don't want to deal with middlemen has nothing to do with its effect on the game's economy or its survival. That's simply your opinion. The fact remains that the market would crash and thats clearly a bad thing. Also adding vendors adds competition. I didn't say add 50 vendors to each city so every garbage guild can sell their 10 clear waters for 200 gold...

It's what he did in the other thread. He is just restating his opinion, without showing any proof that the current system is flawed other than the fact that he doesn't like it.

Fact: more than half of the players do not feel like they are being screwed by the current system.

Fact: more people here are vocal in support of the current system.

Fact: the in-game economy is very stable.

Fact: video games take time to do certain things in them.

Fact: a majority of the guilds that own kiosks, even the good locations, aren't as up tight as claimed.

Complaining about having to spend a little time to search a few guild stores is irrelevant, as that is how the system is designed. Next you will complain about how questing wastes time, then harvesting materials, then crafting, and eventually you'll just be asking for a skip button so you can just skip ahead to exactly what you want.

None of what you just said is fact.

You would have had to speak to everyone who plays the game to claim any of that as fact.

Just like majority getting screwed over.

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

There are more players than there are desirable vendor space.

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

Estimated. And desirable is still subjective. Did you talk to everyone who plays this game to come up with the list of desirable vendor spaces?

I too can only take the part of the post I want to respond to, as it suits my argument.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

There are more players than there are desirable vendor space.

Estimated.

As in the amount of games sold. It won't give you the exact number but it will give you a reasonable number to work with.

Unlike your pitiful attempt of saying everyone said so it's fact. When you haven't even got a clue what 15% of the player base think.

If this is the best you have to use in a rebuttal give up now.

Thymos · April 2015

Sorry, I edited my post well before you made yours.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Just because they spam it doesn't mean people are going to join, and you make it sound like it's easy for a new guild to get started, raise money, and compete with well established guilds. Well, it's not.

A new guild has to fight an uphill battle just to be able to even partake in the economy.

Knight150 · April 2015

It's true the market in this game is awful, having to join Guilds not because you want to be there but just so you can sell stuff. Market should be more like the GW2 market, everyone buy and sell to everyone, being able to see everything that's available to buy in one place, rather then having to visit multiple vendors all over the place who most of the time have nothing you need, wrong item , wrong stats, wrong level, or just nothing at all.

Current system is a complete waste of time and frustrating.

Thymos · April 2015

@golfer.dub17_ESO I agree that it doesn't mean people will join, but the method would not be used if the method did not work at all.

Also, an uphill battle doesn't mean unwinnable.

pugyourself · April 2015

Leeric wrote: »

And what is the reason for not wanting to join a guild with a trader anyways?

His position is that the guild leader personally takes a cut of every sale and he's against that (not a correct assumption btw). Still doesn't explain why he won't simply start his own guild. He says he doesn't want to take other people's money. But nothing prevents him refunding members their listing/sales fees from the guild bank or from his own bank.

AaronMB · April 2015

Since this is all about sharing feelings and opinions, apparently...

I like the system well enough.
I don't mind zone jumping to go shopping.
I belong to guilds that do well in Rawl'kha and Grahtwood, that have no requirements that are unreasonable.
While I make money, I am not rich by any means (i.e. I'm not an elite money maker attempting to keep secure my position; I quest and participate in all facets of the game: not just a seller, like some folk would like to be, I think, or want to be, like they were in 'other' MMOs).

No game-wide AH, please.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

Estimated. And desirable is still subjective. Did you talk to everyone who plays this game to come up with the list of desirable vendor spaces?

I too can only take the part of the post I want to respond to, as it suits my argument.

When I quoted you that's all that you replied with.

Everyone knows what the vendors everyone wants are. Anyone who's in a dedicated trading guild knows this too. It's not like am guessing these are desirable they are the ones people are biding 100,000's on.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Estimated. And desirable is still subjective. Did you talk to everyone who plays this game to come up with the list of desirable vendor spaces?

Desirable vendor spaces aren't all that subjective.

It's an objective fact some spots are much more populated than others.

Would you rather have a kiosk in Mournhold, or a kiosk in the thieves refuge of Bleakrock Isle, assuming it had one?

Sure, the latter might be dirt cheap to bid on, but that's because no one would ever visit it or buy from it.

I belong to guilds that do well in Rawl'kha and Grahtwood, that have no requirements that are unreasonable.

Most of us here probably belong to well off guilds, myself included. The point is to think about the people who do not.

Thymos · April 2015

EDIT: I found my own answers to my questions.

Right now, I know from an architectural standpoint ESO is not just one server, ESO is one megaserver. If we put a server wide auction house in this game, there would be people coming in here complaining about how many pages of listings they have to go through before finding the specific item they want. It would also require a VERY large amount of server power to be able to database all of the listings, and have a speedy search. In current industry standards of technology, I find that if we put a universal auction house in this game, it would be very slow, clunky, and extremely long, requiring long amounts of time to search for specific items.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

AaronMB wrote: »

Since this is all about sharing feelings and opinions, apparently...

I like the system well enough.
I don't mind zone jumping to go shopping.
I belong to guilds that do well in Rawl'kha and Grahtwood, that have no requirements that are unreasonable.
While I make money, I am not rich by any means (i.e. I'm not an elite money maker attempting to keep secure my position; I quest and participate in all facets of the game: not just a seller, like some folk would like to be, I think, or want to be, like they were in 'other' MMOs).

No game-wide AH, please.

Firstly what's your reasonable requirements?

Secondly you would be all for it to stay the same having a vendor right by the undaunted quest giver.

Nope you have no personal stake in this what so ever totally unbiased view

Athas24 · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

And even though the game is now B2P I am actually paying for a subscription. But I con't honestly say how long that will continue as long as I am constantly stonewalled by an entirely dysfunctional trade system.

1. the amount of characters you have is irrelevant to the trade system. I have all my slots maxed but the guilds are account wide so who cares?
2. it sounds like you are not in enough guilds for trade. Personally, I have my 1 guild for social interaction and 4 guilds for trading. I can sell 120 items at a time and they sell within a matter of hours/days using the current system. If your unable to find the items you want/need going to main cities that would be a first I've heard of. There are so may items out there that are only a wayshrine away in each central city. Thats in addition to your trade guilds that you can have access to for sales.
3. zone chat in the major cities works pretty quickly too as a last resort for sales AND purchases

Do you really just want cheap goods available to you that bad for crafting so you don't have to stop now and again to harvest them? Materials are all over the place and extremely accessible even for those who don't farm them (like myself). A Global Trade house would ruin the economy. Newer players can and will adapt to the current system because they need to to trade. This will make sales even more profitable for those guilds who are currently having issues gaining enough members to own an external vendor.

Funny how your second point totally contradicts the part about new players and guilds.

Out of the 122 guild vendors only about 20 of them are in good spots. Those spots are taken by the same guilds week in week out.

There's no market for new guilds they are relegated to the back waters where no one bothers to look.

The whole system is flawed so stop acting like its this wonderful free open market where anyone can make it because it's not.

If you can't get into one of the top 20 trade guilds your screwed. 2500 places in a game with over 100,000 copies sold. It's a [snip] joke.

Any new guild can compete. Get enough members, Get them to donate like the other guilds do. Compete vs current price for a slot in a major city. 2k/member at 300 members out of 400 possible in any NEW guild can do it, easily. They would have 600k to barter which can compete with any other major trade house out there. It's not impossible to do so. The other guilds got where they are by doing Exactly that.

Yeah that new guild can easily out bid your well established guild that's got millions to keep out biding them.

Your talking utter [snip]. No one gets in the best stops apart from the same guilds that are in them week in week out without fail.

It's not utter [snip]. The trade guilds have NO Way to know what others bid for those spaces. That means that even if they had 3 million in their bank roll, they don't just go on and plop that down weekly to win a vendor. I'm in some very successful guilds that have on occasion lost their bids to other guilds out there. It happens and guilds have to spend their money wisely to afford those spots each week. Anyone can win a bid since they are blind auctions

[edited for profanity bypass & to remove quote]

Thymos · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

Estimated. And desirable is still subjective. Did you talk to everyone who plays this game to come up with the list of desirable vendor spaces?

I too can only take the part of the post I want to respond to, as it suits my argument.

When I quoted you that's all that you replied with.

Everyone knows what the vendors everyone wants are. Anyone who's in a dedicated trading guild knows this too. It's not like am guessing these are desirable they are the ones people are biding 100,000's on.

Please give us a list of everyone and their opinion. Also, a list of all the kiosks and their current bids.

liammozzb16_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Thymos wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

No you can use numbers to work that out. It's not rocket science.

Number of estimated plays vs number of desirable vendor spaces.

Estimated. And desirable is still subjective. Did you talk to everyone who plays this game to come up with the list of desirable vendor spaces?

I too can only take the part of the post I want to respond to, as it suits my argument.

When I quoted you that's all that you replied with.

Everyone knows what the vendors everyone wants are. Anyone who's in a dedicated trading guild knows this too. It's not like am guessing these are desirable they are the ones people are biding 100,000's on.

Please give us a list of everyone and their opinion. Also, a list of all the kiosks and their current bids.

Let go of the straws your clutching to hard.

I'm using numbers I don't need to know what people think when the money they spend on the vendors speaks for them.

Victus · April 2015

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Everyone knows what the vendors everyone wants are. Anyone who's in a dedicated trading guild knows this too. It's not like am guessing these are desirable they are the ones people are biding 100,000's on.

Oh? I play and I don't know what "vendors everyone wants" are. I am in a trading guild, and I would say dedicated, but we currently don't have a spot. Please stop making assumptions.

golfer.dub17_ESO · April 2015

Thymos wrote: »

Please give us a list of everyone and their opinion. Also, a list of all the kiosks and their current bids.

You wouldn't even need to do that.

The only opinion you would need is the opinion of the guild leaders actually doing the bidding on the kiosks, then average the results.

You wouldn't even need to do THAT either. You could simply run an experiment for a few days by camping a few spots out and recording your observations.

"Hmm, after a few days there's constantly tons of people around Mournhold at all hours of the day interacting with the kiosks while this spot only occasionally has one or two people every few hours".

You're holding onto that one single point, but it's not even a strong point. We don't need all the special data for what is essentially self evident, common knowledge.