Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

At the moment I really like the game, but the further I progress through PvE content the more and more I find myself stalled in my crafting because of the appalling trade system. I like to have 4 or 5 characters and to cover all crafting skills because I like to be as close as possible to self-reliant. The trade system is starting to prevent that. And that means I have to start thinking about whether I want to continue playing.

And even though the game is now B2P I am actually paying for a subscription. But I con't honestly say how long that will continue as long as I am constantly stonewalled by an entirely dysfunctional trade system.

1. the amount of characters you have is irrelevant to the trade system. I have all my slots maxed but the guilds are account wide so who cares?
2. it sounds like you are not in enough guilds for trade. Personally, I have my 1 guild for social interaction and 4 guilds for trading. I can sell 120 items at a time and they sell within a matter of hours/days using the current system. If your unable to find the items you want/need going to main cities that would be a first I've heard of. There are so may items out there that are only a wayshrine away in each central city. Thats in addition to your trade guilds that you can have access to for sales.
3. zone chat in the major cities works pretty quickly too as a last resort for sales AND purchases

Do you really just want cheap goods available to you that bad for crafting so you don't have to stop now and again to harvest them? Materials are all over the place and extremely accessible even for those who don't farm them (like myself). A Global Trade house would ruin the economy. Newer players can and will adapt to the current system because they need to to trade. This will make sales even more profitable for those guilds who are currently having issues gaining enough members to own an external vendor.

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

I never played DAoC and you guessed wrong I'm 30.

The first proper MMO I ever played was SWG and I loved how the economy worked in that game. It was totally player driven, but you didn't have to join a club to sell your stuff. You had your own shop and vendors. You sold your wares by making a name for your self.

My whole issue is having to join a guild to sell because you are at the whim of another player.

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Just pointing out age 30 and age 40 in reference to gaming technology is a BIG difference.
My first console was an Intellivision
30 year olds - Nintendo or Sega

First MMO
40 years old - prob EverQuest, Neverwinter Nights, DAoC, Ultima Online
30 years old- prob SWG, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, etc

Regarding the topic and points you share....it's not that your points don't have value or make sense but rather that you're applying a limited view to commerce and player interactions for MMO's

Limited questing or dungeons by guild:
Some argue and more suggest that to ensure a reliable experience being a member of certain guild types is almost required.
So for VR content many are limited to a guild requirement due to the LFG tool.

I can comprehend the feeling but I cannot sympathize because since 2012-2013 ZOS was very clear that this game wouldn't have a global ah

Edit; you're not required to join any guild to sale items....you personally feel that a guild membership is required in order to sale items for the value you have placed on those items.

Item value by design promotes player to player interactions for a greater benefit.
Just as in real life...selling or trading items to retail stores or cars and houses to dealers provides a substantially lesser value than trying to sale outside within human to human interactions.

This is no different

You're a funny one. Computers I played before I was 10

Atari
Nes
Amiga
Spectrum
Commodore 64

MMO's I have played

Myth of soma
Legends of Mir
SWG
EQ 1+2
WoW
DCUO

Don't jump to conclusions and think you know someone.

I have no quarrel with player driven economy like I said I played SWG you don't get more player driven than that. I don't care how they do the economy, just as long as I don't have to ask another players permission to do part of it.

Unless you have some unique add-on or UI that blocks all text there are literally 5 or more guild in every zone using /z to recruit and fill trade guilds for the purpose of having a AH

Every account can have up to 5 total so you could accidentally join 1 or 2 by only replying to a zone chat recruitment text.

Assumptions...I've tried to keep this age related and not direct those age references to you but instead share age relevant info.
Your comments in multiple threads that we both have been a part of tend to sway towards a rather limited point of view.
I'm not saying right or wrong but specifically pointing out a lack of experience by comparison to others in the 30-40 age group. Not me but others in the age ranges

My point of view is in a player run economy don't give the choice to who can and can't sell on vendors to the players. Anyone should be able to sell on vendors without having another player being the middleman.

That's not a limited point of view. It's wanting everyone having a level playing field.

That point of view completely removed the logic of having a MMO
If everyone can sale or auction to a vendor with no affiliation, quest and complete all quests with no affiliation then the game becomes a single player game with online capabilities.

The core of any MMO is player interaction driven economies and player interaction driven content
The MMO at its core will drive different and varying fluctuations that make the game live in a world.

If you make everything "even" for everyone, then why have a game?
Those who work on relationships and successfully create and grow through interactions and successful relationship building should by default see benefits to such

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

My point of view is in a player run economy don't give the choice to who can and can't sell on vendors to the players. Anyone should be able to sell on vendors without having another player being the middleman.

That's not a limited point of view. It's wanting everyone having a level playing field.

A truly level playing field via auction house is a terrible idea for the game's overall economy. Supply will increase exponentially causing a drastic reduction in item costs. There simply aren't enough rare items out there, items needed for crafting pieces or unique things that have value to support a global trade house.

Hm, maybe just to satisfy people like you, ZOS should think about independent dealers in remoteness of Tamriel with high fees, something like 50%. So you can put items on sell without joining the guild.

Yeah, I even see that charcter, he looks dirty and ragged with lots of gold jewelry on him and rude behaviour.

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

[So screw over more than half the player base to keep it uneven so a few can get better deals?

Please enlighten me where these 50+% people are. Because at best, the forum polls show 50/50 on the AH saga.

To be honest, if you want to go and play a single player game, go get bloodborne

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

Athas24 wrote: »

A truly level playing field via auction house is a terrible idea for the game's overall economy. Supply will increase exponentially causing a drastic reduction in item costs. There simply aren't enough rare items out there, items needed for crafting pieces or unique things that have value to support a global trade house.

So screw over more than half the player base to keep it uneven so a few can get better deals?

Its not screwing over anyone, let alone half the players. The system in the game is closer to what life before the invention of the internet was than anything else. Individual shop keepers offer items at whatever price there is. Anyone can buy from them but they only SELL items as middlemen from a few companies at best due to trade agreements. If you have any understanding of how economics works you can instantly see that switching, at this point in the games development, to a global trade center (internet concept) is a TERRIBLE idea for Everyone because it will crash the economy within the game. It doesn't take a scientist to see that. Think beyond your own desire to not be a part of a guild and think of what a collapse such as this would mean for Everyone.

Victus wrote: »

I currently enjoy the system as is. I've only really just begun looking around a few vendors to find what I need (questing/levelling being more important right now) but the appeal is there for me.

Sorry if there are people out there that don't care for it, but that doesn't mean it is broken or needs to be changed.

^^ Exactly this^^ Well stated Victus.

@liammozzb16_ESO That's partially my point. You make a statement that OVER 50% of all players want the system changed. At best, I think the largest AH/No AH thread got was a total of 60 votes. Not exactly a commanding % of the market.

I honestly quite like the Auction Horse concept and thinks it has "legs".....parden the pun

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

liammozzb16_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Imagine just walking into Walmart and setting up a table to sell your stuff. You think they would put up with that?

This! Enough said.....
But I'll add this, you can trade items for gold without being in a guild so there are no issues

Read 2 posts down and you will see how stupid that comment was.

Please tell me this secret way you know how to sell your items on a vendor without being in a guild. Where all waiting with bated breath to find out.

I read the whole page and went back again and read your comments.
1 you cannot legally sale items that are sold in Walmart, etc online unless you are authorized to do so
2 my comment offers trading which allows anyone to /s or /z to sale items. I don't support using zone chat for this but it's available

There is no secret...it's the way almost all MMORPG games work.
Your choice to sale to a vendor for little to no profit, trade and stand in a zone or utilize the guild format.

Having played a lot of different games since 1997 my personal observation is that the guild concept promotes real players vs a bit system. Now that the game no longer requires a sub and considering earlier website that were set up as a mean of creating alternative AH's are now all closed down.

ZOS has a game design that you may not agree with.
Opening up an AH concept is not in their design plans as of current.

Maybe that changes but the comment I quoted stands. It's also very accurate and in this game...finding goods will introduce player to player interactions whether those be via trade or via guild.

Now you're talking out your ass no other MMO has ever put the whole trading system into the hands of guilds ever.

My observation is that you're skim reading...drawing conclusions and inferring incorrectly.

It's the way Most MMO's work does not mean that most don't use what you want this game to offer.
It does mean that most MMO games use the player to player interactions strategy.
That's not to include or dismiss a global selling system or whatever else.

How long have you been involved in MMO gaming?
This game and some of its developers are from DAoC....DAoC used a very similar approach by allowing player to player trading, guilds and those members to list items for sale and allowed non guild players to buy from those guilds.

The game didn't have a global AH and it worked great.
This was in 1998-today

There are many other games that didn't have a global AH

Now around 2002-2004 games began to make moves towards a global trading system that did not require "membership" like WoW came in with but even in those games it was alliance, faction or realm based.

In every game that had or that had a global AH of any kind, those all became overrun with bots, gold sellers, account hacking and so why would ZOS introduce something that they know promotes frustration and that will introduce long term problems.

I do believe you're a lot younger than myself as I'm almost 40 so the gaming and online experiences that I've had since the early 1990's of MMO and non MMO gaming causes me to side with ZOS on this topic

I never played DAoC and you guessed wrong I'm 30.

The first proper MMO I ever played was SWG and I loved how the economy worked in that game. It was totally player driven, but you didn't have to join a club to sell your stuff. You had your own shop and vendors. You sold your wares by making a name for your self.

My whole issue is having to join a guild to sell because you are at the whim of another player.

Would you be happy having to join a guild just to quest? Where if you didn't kill x amount of mobs or finish x amount of quests a week you would be kicked? It's basically the same thing.

Just pointing out age 30 and age 40 in reference to gaming technology is a BIG difference.
My first console was an Intellivision
30 year olds - Nintendo or Sega

First MMO
40 years old - prob EverQuest, Neverwinter Nights, DAoC, Ultima Online
30 years old- prob SWG, WoW, Final Fantasy XI, etc

Regarding the topic and points you share....it's not that your points don't have value or make sense but rather that you're applying a limited view to commerce and player interactions for MMO's

Limited questing or dungeons by guild:
Some argue and more suggest that to ensure a reliable experience being a member of certain guild types is almost required.
So for VR content many are limited to a guild requirement due to the LFG tool.

I can comprehend the feeling but I cannot sympathize because since 2012-2013 ZOS was very clear that this game wouldn't have a global ah

Edit; you're not required to join any guild to sale items....you personally feel that a guild membership is required in order to sale items for the value you have placed on those items.

Item value by design promotes player to player interactions for a greater benefit.
Just as in real life...selling or trading items to retail stores or cars and houses to dealers provides a substantially lesser value than trying to sale outside within human to human interactions.

This is no different

You're a funny one. Computers I played before I was 10

Atari
Nes
Amiga
Spectrum
Commodore 64

MMO's I have played

Myth of soma
Legends of Mir
SWG
EQ 1+2
WoW
DCUO

Don't jump to conclusions and think you know someone.

I have no quarrel with player driven economy like I said I played SWG you don't get more player driven than that. I don't care how they do the economy, just as long as I don't have to ask another players permission to do part of it.

Unless you have some unique add-on or UI that blocks all text there are literally 5 or more guild in every zone using /z to recruit and fill trade guilds for the purpose of having a AH

Every account can have up to 5 total so you could accidentally join 1 or 2 by only replying to a zone chat recruitment text.

Assumptions...I've tried to keep this age related and not direct those age references to you but instead share age relevant info.
Your comments in multiple threads that we both have been a part of tend to sway towards a rather limited point of view.
I'm not saying right or wrong but specifically pointing out a lack of experience by comparison to others in the 30-40 age group. Not me but others in the age ranges

My point of view is in a player run economy don't give the choice to who can and can't sell on vendors to the players. Anyone should be able to sell on vendors without having another player being the middleman.

That's not a limited point of view. It's wanting everyone having a level playing field.

That point of view completely removed the logic of having a MMO
If everyone can sale or auction to a vendor with no affiliation, quest and complete all quests with no affiliation then the game becomes a single player game with online capabilities.

The core of any MMO is player interaction driven economies and player interaction driven content

All that can be done without allowing player to become middlemen in transactions that have nothing to do with them.

How exactly and specifically?

I'm not personally asking for details but for purposes of the topic discussion I think that many of us would like to see this outlined in detail. Maybe there are opportunities that others haven't thought of. Please share

Here's the problem. A very vocal group of people like the system the way it is, and why wouldn't they? They are part of a select group who belong to trade guilds that have those highly-sought after kiosks. They have thousands, even hundreds of thousands of potential customers, while the vast majority of their competitors have only a tiny fraction of that.

Just like established businesses in the real world, they have a vested interest in keeping competition limited.

The consumer on the other hand (that's everyone, in case you didn't know) has a vested interest in seeing as much competition as possible.

Until that massive portion of the consumer base that doesn't benefit from the current system stops using those guild kiosks, or at least a significant portion of them, there will be no call for change from that vocal group who holds sway currently.

It's extremely unlikely ZOS will ever make a change as long as those people continue to shout down calls for change, as they are doing in this an every other thread that asks for some version free (or even free-er) market. ZOS will continue to believe their experiment in a controlled market is working, until it stops working for everyone.

The only way to make it stop working for the select few is to stop buying from them. Want change? You have to be willing to sacrifice to make it happen. Stop using guild kiosks, period. Convince everyone you come across that complains about the current system to do the same. Yes, that means you'll have to use chat to buy and sell, or just do without. It's not easy to be an activist. If enough of us refuse to participate, then it will crash and burn. The select few trading with just one another will not be enough to keep it going. They need us to prey off of.Stop allowing yourself to be prey. Stop buying from them. If you've managed to get yourself into one of these guilds (though you are against the current system), stop selling stuff on the guild store.

Just a thought here folks. Whilst as much fun as this debate is, are we talking EU or NA servers?