mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

the only counter to someone who's stacked up with massive shields is to stack as much burst as possible to burn the shield down and hopefully get them dead before they can stack more shields

this is were you are wrong.
The counter to shield-stacking in ESO is crowd-control

I know it's April Fools Day & all, but is this a joke or a real post?

CC in this game is almost non-existent and serves more as a stamina drain than anything else.

Now, I'm not going to say there aren't ways around damage shields.
Specifically, there is one wombo combo that allows you to instagib pretty much anyone (shields stacked or not).

That said, I disagree that PvP should revolve around stacking shields & instagibbing people. That is not my idea of fun, diverse PvP.

I kindly disagree.

There is a lot of CC. You're a NB, you know this works right? Fear, Fear, Fear.... Fear x 100.

The problem in this game is there's no good large AoE CC. Oil Catas get negated by a simple Purge and Caltrops get negated by Rapid Manoevres. Thus, there's no way to stop masses, but single players? there are plenty.

Anyhow, here's a 3-simple-step suggestion to stop shield stacking (if that's even a problem anymore):

1) Make Healing Ward a direct heal akin to Templar BoL. Great change for PvE healers too
2) Change Harness Magicka moprh to instead shield all damage instead of returning Magicka. So you either get a small shield against all damage or you get a large shield against magicka damage. Now NBs have a shield as well
3) AFTER the above two are done....remove shield stacking. The largest shield will apply only. So if I cast a barrier (largest shield in game) it will remove all previous shields from players. If I cast Hardened Ward, it will not replace my existing Barrier (smaller shield), unless my Barrier has take damage and is less than my HW.

How about that?

hamon wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

The players cried and moaned until sorcs had their mobility and escape ability destroyed. Now they use shields. Now players will cry and moan until sorcs have their defense destroyed. It wont be long before sorcs are equivalent to 2004-2005 World of Warcraft Warlocks...aka, a free kill.

wait wot? sorcs had their mobility and escape nerfed??? i see more sorcs than ever streaking off into the distance as soon as their shields drop , seems like their mobility is working just fine still imo.

c0rp wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

The players cried and moaned until sorcs had their mobility and escape ability destroyed. Now they use shields. Now players will cry and moan until sorcs have their defense destroyed. It wont be long before sorcs are equivalent to 2004-2005 World of Warcraft Warlocks...aka, a free kill.

God, do you remember Rogues during the first year or so of WoW? (that's all I played)
Reeeediculous invisibility, CC, burst.

As a warlock at that time, you didn't even try to fight a rogue, you were usually dead before the "fight" even began actually lol

Cody wrote: »

why did all these sorc defenders come in and turn this into another "sorc hate thread"?? the thread was talking about DAMAGE SHIELDS. NOT SORCERERS.

come on people, y'all are better than this. so every time I talk about damage shields, Im talking about sorcerers too?

/sigh

hamon wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

The players cried and moaned until sorcs had their mobility and escape ability destroyed. Now they use shields. Now players will cry and moan until sorcs have their defense destroyed. It wont be long before sorcs are equivalent to 2004-2005 World of Warcraft Warlocks...aka, a free kill.

wait wot? sorcs had their mobility and escape nerfed??? i see more sorcs than ever streaking off into the distance as soon as their shields drop , seems like their mobility is working just fine still imo.

Because ZOS decided to dumb down the resource management with 1.6 >_> .

Bolt Escape still has increased cost and you can still run yourself oom spamming it, really fast.

well ive met very few sorcs that cant easily spam it 3 or 4 times , enough to clear any danger then simply wait a second or 2 and have enough magika to do it all over again. this is only going to get worse as more and more points are stuck into recovery and reduction.

which brings another point into focus. this whole situation is going to get worse and worse as the C points keep rolling in.

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

hamon wrote: »

having took a break for a few months and came back i can see how the meta-game has evolved.

shield stacking (yes particularly but not exclusively with sorcs) is a problem in pvp now.

stacking shields in any similar MMO ive played is unwise. this is because usually classes will exist that have some form of purge type abiliity that removes buffs from enemy players. So stacking all your eggs in one basket (shields) only works till someone comes and removes them from you with a purge. this means you have to rely on more than one thing to keep you alive. You need to have a reasonable amount of health/armour/CC to fall back on if your faced with someone who can remove buffs.

ESO has no such ability, so here's where it damages the meta. the only counter to someone who's stacked up with massive shields is to stack as much burst as possible to burn the shield down and hopefully get them dead before they can stack more shields or if they are a sorc can just simply spam bolt a few times and re-stack.

so both sides of the equation end up being forced to put all their eggs in one basket, this has a snowball effect. more folk stack maximum burst to burn shields, this encourages shield stacking in order to survive the burst.

now where sorcs enjoy the really crazy gain from this is that by stacking magika exclusively they increase power in shields while also increasing power in their damage and increase their resource pools with ZERO trade off. templars shields are HP based. so without significant points in HP their shield is fairly weak, plus short duration.

but before the sorcs start screaming NO because a purge would hamper them the most, it would hurt other players as much. removing things like scales, immovable etc. purge would be a powerfull tool, But NOT op, because to slot it you have to give up some other ability and spend resource to purge folk, but a well timed purge would be powerfull.

it would make folk have to rely on more than one thing to run around and wreck folk. it would stop shield stackers being able to tank lots of folk while dishing out huge damage. If you ran into 4 folk you couldn,t expect to get away with burning them down by popping potions and continually stacking shields, cos if even one of them slapped a few purges on you the rest would wreck you cos your god-mode got removed.

in effect it would increase variety of ways to play, otherwise its gonna be pretty much stackers versus gank builds with nothing else in the middle.

Digiman wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

having took a break for a few months and came back i can see how the meta-game has evolved.

shield stacking (yes particularly but not exclusively with sorcs) is a problem in pvp now.

stacking shields in any similar MMO ive played is unwise. this is because usually classes will exist that have some form of purge type abiliity that removes buffs from enemy players. So stacking all your eggs in one basket (shields) only works till someone comes and removes them from you with a purge. this means you have to rely on more than one thing to keep you alive. You need to have a reasonable amount of health/armour/CC to fall back on if your faced with someone who can remove buffs.

ESO has no such ability, so here's where it damages the meta. the only counter to someone who's stacked up with massive shields is to stack as much burst as possible to burn the shield down and hopefully get them dead before they can stack more shields or if they are a sorc can just simply spam bolt a few times and re-stack.

so both sides of the equation end up being forced to put all their eggs in one basket, this has a snowball effect. more folk stack maximum burst to burn shields, this encourages shield stacking in order to survive the burst.

now where sorcs enjoy the really crazy gain from this is that by stacking magika exclusively they increase power in shields while also increasing power in their damage and increase their resource pools with ZERO trade off. templars shields are HP based. so without significant points in HP their shield is fairly weak, plus short duration.

but before the sorcs start screaming NO because a purge would hamper them the most, it would hurt other players as much. removing things like scales, immovable etc. purge would be a powerfull tool, But NOT op, because to slot it you have to give up some other ability and spend resource to purge folk, but a well timed purge would be powerfull.

it would make folk have to rely on more than one thing to run around and wreck folk. it would stop shield stackers being able to tank lots of folk while dishing out huge damage. If you ran into 4 folk you couldn,t expect to get away with burning them down by popping potions and continually stacking shields, cos if even one of them slapped a few purges on you the rest would wreck you cos your god-mode got removed.

in effect it would increase variety of ways to play, otherwise its gonna be pretty much stackers versus gank builds with nothing else in the middle.

So the only playstyle that is keeping sorcerers from being 2 shotted can be removed by any noob with a purge? Do you also want sorcerers to bend over for you as well?

em plenty of folk of ALL classes are getting 2 shotted. why should sorcs be special snowflakes?

IF they did implement your terrible class breaking idea then they would have to give sorcerers so much burst damage they would kill you just by looking at you to compensate also remove the the 50% more cost when using BE to compensate for the lack of survivability.

You will never catch sorcerers before they tear you to shreds in 2 seconds after the 4 second block breaker from their burst damage spells.

Or everyone could just ignore your terrible idea and play the way they should where they would last more then 2 seconds.

See 1 vs 1 fights between every other class that lasts for 10 minutes, I don't see why sorcerers should be excluded.

cos they are chugging tri pots everytime their addon text tells them to

Finally a shield stacking sorcerer is trading DPS for survivability. Which is the only way for cloth to survive in PvP
what exactly are they trading?

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DDuke wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

c0rp wrote: »

The players cried and moaned until sorcs had their mobility and escape ability destroyed. Now they use shields. Now players will cry and moan until sorcs have their defense destroyed. It wont be long before sorcs are equivalent to 2004-2005 World of Warcraft Warlocks...aka, a free kill.

God, do you remember Rogues during the first year or so of WoW? (that's all I played)
Reeeediculous invisibility, CC, burst.

As a warlock at that time, you didn't even try to fight a rogue, you were usually dead before the "fight" even began actually lol

Yeah I was an elemental shaman, almost as bad as a warlock back then. If I was lucky the stunlock ended before I was dead so I could NS>greater heal.

This is why I cringe when people start referring to WoW PvP with anything similar to fondness.

WoW PvP is akin ESO PvE....boring.

Really? I had an elemental shaman alt, and I had zero problems with rogues (even ones with much better gear). Since gear played/plays a big part in that game, I'll just mention that I had the blue PvP gear at the time on my shaman (highest rank I got to was Lieutenant General).

Having played a rogue as main probably helped, knowing how the opponent behaves & such

You could pretty much instagib those rogues by a well timed Lightning Bolt->Chain Lightning, and keeping them flame shocked & kited with earthbind totems did the trick.

It's great how different classes required a different approach in that game (speaking of vanilla WoW)

It wasn't all just "hey let's see who runs out of stamina/magicka first" and doing pretty much the exact same thing against every opponent, which is monotonous and thus boring.

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

the only counter to someone who's stacked up with massive shields is to stack as much burst as possible to burn the shield down and hopefully get them dead before they can stack more shields

this is were you are wrong.
The counter to shield-stacking in ESO is crowd-control

Right because you can definitely CC players who quaffed an immovable pot or are running immovable, or can just bolt away, or can infinite dodge-roll away.
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