why shield stacking damages the whole meta

Maulkin

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Maulkin

Cody wrote: »

"if thats even a problem anymore"

this shows you have not played the vet campaigns recently, or have and are just livin in denail.

One of the two

Me? No never. What is this PvP you speak of? Tell me more, sounds interesting...

McDoogs

Cody wrote: »

why did all these sorc defenders come in and turn this into another "sorc hate thread"?? the thread was talking about DAMAGE SHIELDS. NOT SORCERERS.

come on people, y'all are better than this. so every time I talk about damage shields, Im talking about sorcerers too?

/sigh

Because every thread about 'shield stacking' is a thinly veiled 'nerf sorceror' thread.

McDoogs

Morvul wrote: »

Ifthir_ESO wrote: »

Morvul wrote: »

hamon wrote: »

the only counter to someone who's stacked up with massive shields is to stack as much burst as possible to burn the shield down and hopefully get them dead before they can stack more shields

this is were you are wrong.
The counter to shield-stacking in ESO is crowd-control

Right because you can definitely CC players who quaffed an immovable pot or are running immovable, or can just bolt away, or can infinite dodge-roll away.
.

oh my, where to begin...

1) bolting away: yes, you can't CC a player that's out of range. The thing is: that player needs to come back into CC range if he intents to harm you
2) infiny doge-rollers: yes, I also hate them. However: a player is either a shield stacker, OR an infiny doge-roller. Resource-pools simply do not allow a player to be both. --> shield stackers can doge 2-3 times, then it's game-over
3) regarding the "CC is just a stamina drain" from @DDuke: yeah, it is! guess what: shield stackers don't have much stamina...
4) immovable skill: shield stackers simply don't have the stamina to run this
5) immovable pots: mhm... them are strong indeed... I probably should start using those (most players don't, btw)


my main causes of death, as a shield "stacker" (I only use 2, one of them being healing ward which is used only when low on health):
1) lag prevented ability bar switch
2) Nightblade ambush from stealth
3) being CCed

edit: the reason "being CCed" is number 3 on the list is not because it's rarely effective, but because people rarely try to do it...

Also, high burst builds crush through shields incredibly fast. An 8k hardened ward is going down really fast under a wrecking blow + executioner or lethal arrow + crit rush. Also, a stam burst build can use dodge roll to avoid 100% of my sorc's damage. Luckily, relatively few seem to realize this.

I think that there are a lot of people heading to cyrodiil with dps/sustain builds who can't figure out why they cant get through damage shields, when they are attacking damage shield builds strengths and not their weaknesses (physical dmg burst/CC).

On my VR14 sorc I know that I probably can't kill a tank-spec dk (or templar if he's good) 1v1. NB fear crushes me. On my VR14 stamina templar I know I cant chase a running sorc, nor 1v3+ and expect to live (unless they are really bad i guess lol), and DKs are very difficult (both stam and mag tanks) 1v1. It's the nature of MMOs that there are counters, I don't cry on the forums like so many of you every time I die to my counters.

DDuke

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Regarding dodge roll, the problem isn't really the dodge rolling itself, which is supposed to be reactionary.

The problem is the people stacking ridiculous amounts of stamina regen (you can get over 4k as a bosmer), which allows you to do so infinitely (or block, alternatively).

Dodge roll itself already has several huge weaknesses.

1. You can be hit by AoE while dodge rolling.
2. You can be hit by DK Whip (must be a bug though, it also breaks cloak)
3. You can't really DPS while dodge rolling (yes, you can dodge cancel attacks, but lengthy dodge roll animation hits your DPS hard)

bloodenragedb14_ESO

i see more people on these threads opposing, of all classes, then those that support. Why? Informed gamers know that there is nothing wrong with wards and damage shields. Informed gamers have rolled multiple alts, know the skills of each class.

Informed gamers know that both rolling and warding is not the problem

Its entitled noobies (though i hate the word, i must use it) who are mad they couldnt oneshot that sorc or that rogue.

THIS ISNT A TYPICAL MMO CLASS SYSTEM

rouges and Mages are not the squishy free glory you are used to

templars and DK's are not the invincible damage dealing tanks you are are used to.

Each of these classes bring something different to the table sure, but these abilities can be combined in many, many, many different ways

That sorc? he isnt a mage, he is a arcane warrior

That rogue? he isnt a rogue, he is a warlock with a few rouge abilities

That templar, he isnt a paladin, he is a priest, healing his allies

That DK? he isnt a dragonknight, he is a pyromancer

Analyze why you are loosing, look at your skills, is there a way you can beat him? slot the winning combo, attempt, if you fail, rebuild and try again.

nothing is unkillable. It is the fallacy of the weak and unskilled to cry for the developers to change something because their precious favorite build isnt killing that sorc or dk.
NEWSFLASH: your build is $%^@ compared to your vanquisher. but there is hope, you have a bevy of other abilities that can, and will counter him, if you would only look, experiment, attempt to overcome

you have a brain, use it.

Maulkin

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Regarding dodge roll, the problem isn't really the dodge rolling itself, which is supposed to be reactionary.

The problem is the people stacking ridiculous amounts of stamina regen (you can get over 4k as a bosmer), which allows you to do so infinitely (or block, alternatively).

Dodge roll itself already has several huge weaknesses.

1. You can be hit by AoE while dodge rolling.
2. You can be hit by DK Whip (must be a bug though, it also breaks cloak) - Bug, will be fixed
3. You can't really DPS while dodge rolling (yes, you can dodge cancel attacks, but lengthy dodge roll animation hits your DPS hard)

1) Not really a huge weakness, AoEs are low damage non-HardCC abilities mostly and since most are PBAoEs people have to manage to stay withing 6m of you to hit you. You can dodge roll through a couple of players fine, you just can't keep dodge rolling inside a zerg. You also avoid most of the roots, invasions and Hard CCs that if a LA user doesn't block he gets flat on his arse and dies instantly. And i can only block for 2" inside a zerg before my stamina drains and l melt along with my wards

2) That's a bug. Hopefully fixed sooner than later. Can't be considered in a balance discussion

3) You still can DPS while dodging better than I can DPS while spamming shields, cause I do 0 DPS doing that. Not to mention a passive dodge chance from medium armour that stacks with Evasion to provide a big reduction in damage (outside of roll dodge), on top of your superior armor mitigation.

Ultimately, shields cost more than dodge roll atm which is nuts and stamina builds (especially NBs and in particular Bosmer NBs) can easily move past 2.5k stam regen (that's the source of the problem) thus being able to dodge roll seemingly forever. The 3k-4k regens are insane, I don't even want to talk about them.

It's just that most non-duelists are not aware of all that. they just live in a small bubble where everything around them that kills them is overpowered UNLESS it's an identical build to theirs.

I don't know if ZOS will tamper with wards, I can't read their mind. But my guess is they will start looking at removing some of the cost reduction on dodge-roll before they even get close to tampering with wards.

We'll see.

DDuke

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Regarding dodge roll, the problem isn't really the dodge rolling itself, which is supposed to be reactionary.

The problem is the people stacking ridiculous amounts of stamina regen (you can get over 4k as a bosmer), which allows you to do so infinitely (or block, alternatively).

Dodge roll itself already has several huge weaknesses.

1. You can be hit by AoE while dodge rolling.
2. You can be hit by DK Whip (must be a bug though, it also breaks cloak) - Bug, will be fixed
3. You can't really DPS while dodge rolling (yes, you can dodge cancel attacks, but lengthy dodge roll animation hits your DPS hard)

1) Not really a huge weakness, AoEs are low damage non-HardCC abilities mostly and since most are PBAoEs people have to manage to stay withing 6m of you to hit you. You can dodge roll through a couple of players fine, you just can't keep dodge rolling inside a zerg. You also avoid most of the roots, invasions and Hard CCs that if a LA user doesn't block he gets flat on his arse and dies instantly. And i can only block for 2" inside a zerg before my stamina drains and l melt along with my wards

2) That's a bug. Hopefully fixed sooner than later. Can't be considered in a balance discussion

3) You still can DPS while dodging better than I can DPS while spamming shields, cause I do 0 DPS doing that. Not to mention a passive dodge chance from medium armour that stacks with Evasion to provide a big reduction in damage (outside of roll dodge), on top of your superior armor mitigation.

Ultimately, shields cost more than dodge roll atm which is nuts and stamina builds (especially NBs and in particular Bosmer NBs) can easily move past 2.5k stam regen (that's the source of the problem) thus being able to dodge roll seemingly forever. The 3k-4k regens are insane, I don't even want to talk about them.

It's just that most non-duelists are not aware of all that. they just live in a small bubble where everything around them that kills them is overpowered UNLESS it's an identical build to theirs.

I don't know if ZOS will tamper with wards, I can't read their mind. But my guess is they will start looking at removing some of the cost reduction on dodge-roll before they even get close to tampering with wards.

We'll see.

I've come across multiple Sorcs able to throw curse etc at me before I get their 20-30k shields down (takes 2-3 Surprise Attacks minimum as they can't crit). There's plenty of time to DPS.

Also, the regen can easily be achieved for magicka as well, leading to the never-ending shield spam (with some BoLs mixed in between). Luckily, I know just the thing to instagib people (shields or not), otherwise I'd probably be pretty pissed off at the meta. Now I'm just bored.

That said, you should really try some AoE against the dodge roll spam, you'd be surprised how effective something like Steel Tornado can be, and caltrops is excellent for preventing the dodge roller from escaping (or cloaking if NB). Since you can't cloak, block or do anything while dodge rolling, that's actually when your target is vulnerable (to the right skills).


I think they should address the meta revolving around "who runs out of resources first" by making these survival abilities cost more.

E.g. a 20k dmg shield would cost something like 6-7k magicka, instead of the current 2-3k. Regen rates don't necessarily need to be tampered, but I'd like a bigger drawback to come from stacking them (e.g. dealing significantly less damage).

That way, people would have the survivability of dmg shields while not being able to spam them ad infinitum (which is the problem, mostly).

Also: more defensive abilities for magicka that aren't focused on being a magic bubble should be added.

hamon

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

i see more people on these threads opposing, of all classes, then those that support. Why? Informed gamers know that there is nothing wrong with wards and damage shields. Informed gamers have rolled multiple alts, know the skills of each class.

Informed gamers know that both rolling and warding is not the problem

Its entitled noobies (though i hate the word, i must use it) who are mad they couldnt oneshot that sorc or that rogue.

idotic immature.. i,ll leave that statement there.

THIS ISNT A TYPICAL MMO CLASS SYSTEM

does that necesserily mean better?

rouges and Mages are not the squishy free glory you are used to

templars and DK's are not the invincible damage dealing tanks you are are used to.

Each of these classes bring something different to the table sure, but these abilities can be combined in many, many, many different ways

That sorc? he isnt a mage, he is a arcane warrior

why cos you say so? He CAN be an arcane warrior but that should be tied to him choosing to use heavy armour to play as a warrior, and wanting to be able to survive in melee range. thats fair thats the trade off. you trade the dps and magika regen benefits of LA for heavy to play as an arcane warrior . thats balanced. however its FOLK LIKE YOU who decide cos you like to play in melee range as a sorc while still getting to stack magika, wear light armour and sacrifice nothing of your dps to do so by having perma stacked shields using your huge magika pool.... thats not balanced.

That rogue? he isnt a rogue, he is a warlock with a few rouge abilities

again he CAN be but if he chooses magika and LA he SHOULD be easier to kill if you catch him.

That templar, he isnt a paladin, he is a priest, healing his allies

again he can be played that way , he shouldn't be reduced to simply being a heal bot on your say so

That DK? he isnt a dragonknight, he is a pyromancer


Analyze why you are loosing, look at your skills, is there a way you can beat him? slot the winning combo, attempt, if you fail, rebuild and try again.

And what if in the analysis folk find that there is some flaws in the mechanics that are making the game simply stackers versus burst seal clubbers? should we just join in till that becomes the new meta , just like the bathrobes and staves was with everything else useless? or should we enter a debate and hope that most adults can see past their own class being FOTM .

nothing is unkillable. It is the fallacy of the weak and unskilled to cry for the developers to change something because their precious favorite build isnt killing that sorc or dk.
NEWSFLASH: your build is $%^@ compared to your vanquisher. but there is hope, you have a bevy of other abilities that can, and will counter him, if you would only look, experiment, attempt to overcome

you have a brain, use it.

i dont normally debate with folk who use terms like "entitled and noobies" cos it generally shows a lack of maturity or intellect. that and an inflated ego . however i,ll endulge you this time by looking at your points above

so basically if you have nothing more that immature comments about "entitlement" to add, perhaps just let the adults talk

hamon

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

you should be expected to sacrifice something if you want to survive in melee range. basically choosing light armour should be a choice to play at range as your means of survival. thats how it works in every game ever made like this. heavy armour is the choice of melee range..
this is the problem. folk are so used to wearing the armour thats made for being ranged dps and wanting to have the survivability of melee range armour..

right now this is achievable if your a sorc by shield stacking .. but it totally negates the whole point of why they actually fixed armour to reflect that.

the reason why sorcs got bolt escape, and why they have similar abilities traditionally in other games. like blink (the more traditional name for bolt) is because they traditionally need to be able to stay at distance to survive.

ESO has let light armour wearers come to expect that their choice of armour won't effect their survivability at all cos it didn't till 1.6. so basically if you think light armour isn't giving you enough survivability, and you want to play in melee range wear heavy armour ..

Tankqull

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Regarding dodge roll, the problem isn't really the dodge rolling itself, which is supposed to be reactionary.

The problem is the people stacking ridiculous amounts of stamina regen (you can get over 4k as a bosmer), which allows you to do so infinitely (or block, alternatively).

Dodge roll itself already has several huge weaknesses.

1. You can be hit by AoE while dodge rolling.
2. You can be hit by DK Whip (must be a bug though, it also breaks cloak) - Bug, will be fixed
3. You can't really DPS while dodge rolling (yes, you can dodge cancel attacks, but lengthy dodge roll animation hits your DPS hard)

1) Not really a huge weakness, AoEs are low damage non-HardCC abilities mostly and since most are PBAoEs people have to manage to stay withing 6m of you to hit you. You can dodge roll through a couple of players fine, you just can't keep dodge rolling inside a zerg. You also avoid most of the roots, invasions and Hard CCs that if a LA user doesn't block he gets flat on his arse and dies instantly. And i can only block for 2" inside a zerg before my stamina drains and l melt along with my wards

2) That's a bug. Hopefully fixed sooner than later. Can't be considered in a balance discussion

3) You still can DPS while dodging better than I can DPS while spamming shields, cause I do 0 DPS doing that. Not to mention a passive dodge chance from medium armour that stacks with Evasion to provide a big reduction in damage (outside of roll dodge), on top of your superior armor mitigation.

Ultimately, shields cost more than dodge roll atm which is nuts and stamina builds (especially NBs and in particular Bosmer NBs) can easily move past 2.5k stam regen (that's the source of the problem) thus being able to dodge roll seemingly forever. The 3k-4k regens are insane, I don't even want to talk about them.

It's just that most non-duelists are not aware of all that. they just live in a small bubble where everything around them that kills them is overpowered UNLESS it's an identical build to theirs.

I don't know if ZOS will tamper with wards, I can't read their mind. But my guess is they will start looking at removing some of the cost reduction on dodge-roll before they even get close to tampering with wards.

We'll see.

and then he must be a cheater

Observant

hamon wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

you should be expected to sacrifice something if you want to survive in melee range. basically choosing light armour should be a choice to play at range as your means of survival. thats how it works in every game ever made like this. heavy armour is the choice of melee range..
this is the problem. folk are so used to wearing the armour thats made for being ranged dps and wanting to have the survivability of melee range armour..

right now this is achievable if your a sorc by shield stacking .. but it totally negates the whole point of why they actually fixed armour to reflect that.

the reason why sorcs got bolt escape, and why they have similar abilities traditionally in other games. like blink (the more traditional name for bolt) is because they traditionally need to be able to stay at distance to survive.

ESO has let light armour wearers come to expect that their choice of armour won't effect their survivability at all cos it didn't till 1.6. so basically if you think light armour isn't giving you enough survivability, and you want to play in melee range wear heavy armour ..

100% Agree. That being said, as a LA wearer, I'd like a wee bit more Spell Resistance.

Tankqull

DDuke wrote: »

I've come across multiple Sorcs able to throw curse etc at me before I get their 20-30k shields down (takes 2-3 Surprise Attacks minimum as they can't crit). There's plenty of time to DPS.

Also, the regen can easily be achieved for magicka as well, leading to the never-ending shield spam (with some BoLs mixed in between). Luckily, I know just the thing to instagib people (shields or not), otherwise I'd probably be pretty pissed off at the meta. Now I'm just bored.

That said, you should really try some AoE against the dodge roll spam, you'd be surprised how effective something like Steel Tornado can be, and caltrops is excellent for preventing the dodge roller from escaping (or cloaking if NB). Since you can't cloak, block or do anything while dodge rolling, that's actually when your target is vulnerable (to the right skills).


I think they should address the meta revolving around "who runs out of resources first" by making these survival abilities cost more.

E.g. a 20k dmg shield would cost something like 6-7k magicka, instead of the current 2-3k. Regen rates don't necessarily need to be tampered, but I'd like a bigger drawback to come from stacking them (e.g. dealing significantly less damage).

That way, people would have the survivability of dmg shields while not being able to spam them ad infinitum (which is the problem, mostly).

Also: more defensive abilities for magicka that aren't focused on being a magic bubble should be added.

if you face a sorc with 20-30k shields it is either a display bug, you are not not affected by 50% of it as that part is dampen/harness magica wich doesent affect your melee abilites. or you allready had him down below 20% for the 300% increase on healing ward or last but not least he had to cast 3 different shields to get those numbers (where only 2/3 are actually affecting you wich completly negates your dps assumption) - but the more likely option is that your numbers are nothing but pulled from your hat.

well not everybody is a stamina user to spam caltrops all over the place or a dk with 70% snares tied to those abilities wich are great abilities to hinder a rollmops but no ae is actually killing a roller with 1-3x 500dmg ticks.

it awesome how missinformed you are to cast 20k worth of shields you have to cast 3 spells each in between 2,8k and 3,6k magica cost wich is exactly your 6-7k value.

DDuke

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I've come across multiple Sorcs able to throw curse etc at me before I get their 20-30k shields down (takes 2-3 Surprise Attacks minimum as they can't crit). There's plenty of time to DPS.

Also, the regen can easily be achieved for magicka as well, leading to the never-ending shield spam (with some BoLs mixed in between). Luckily, I know just the thing to instagib people (shields or not), otherwise I'd probably be pretty pissed off at the meta. Now I'm just bored.

That said, you should really try some AoE against the dodge roll spam, you'd be surprised how effective something like Steel Tornado can be, and caltrops is excellent for preventing the dodge roller from escaping (or cloaking if NB). Since you can't cloak, block or do anything while dodge rolling, that's actually when your target is vulnerable (to the right skills).


I think they should address the meta revolving around "who runs out of resources first" by making these survival abilities cost more.

E.g. a 20k dmg shield would cost something like 6-7k magicka, instead of the current 2-3k. Regen rates don't necessarily need to be tampered, but I'd like a bigger drawback to come from stacking them (e.g. dealing significantly less damage).

That way, people would have the survivability of dmg shields while not being able to spam them ad infinitum (which is the problem, mostly).

Also: more defensive abilities for magicka that aren't focused on being a magic bubble should be added.

if you face a sorc with 20-30k shields it is either a display bug, you are not not affected by 50% of it as that part is dampen/harness magica wich doesent affect your melee abilites. or you allready had him down below 20% for the 300% increase on healing ward or last but not least he had to cast 3 different shields to get those numbers (where only 2/3 are actually affecting you wich completly negates your dps assumption) - but the more likely option is that your numbers are nothing but pulled from your hat.

well not everybody is a stamina user to spam caltrops all over the place or a dk with 70% snares tied to those abilities wich are great abilities to hinder a rollmops but no ae is actually killing a roller with 1-3x 500dmg ticks.

it awesome how missinformed you are to cast 20k worth of shields you have to cast 3 spells each in between 2,8k and 3,6k magica cost wich is exactly your 6-7k value.

Oh, if it isn't one of the sorcs that attacked me on PTS forums.

You might want to reopen one of those threads, see how big shields I was able to attain & subtract 15% (the amount dmg shield strength was nerfed in Cyrodiil) from that.

You'll quickly notice that Hardened Ward still grants you a 16k~ shield with the correct build (probably people have found a way to get it even higher) with 70 CPs (there are people with 150+ now, which should be taken into account).
That+Healing Ward = 20-30k worth of shields (I did use the plural there, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to get single Hardened Ward for 20k+, after all it's possible with Blazing Shield atleast).

It is still a fact that casting shields is significantly more cost efficient than casting offensive abilities, and that people are able to spam them non-stop.

That said, the game atleast has other broken stuff to counter that broken stuff (such as 40-50k instant burst which you'll see in my next video).
It's sad that you have to use one extreme to counter another, but atleast the game is still playable for those not fond of spamming shields or dodge rolling 24/7 in PvP.

McDoogs

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

Regarding dodge roll, the problem isn't really the dodge rolling itself, which is supposed to be reactionary.

The problem is the people stacking ridiculous amounts of stamina regen (you can get over 4k as a bosmer), which allows you to do so infinitely (or block, alternatively).

Dodge roll itself already has several huge weaknesses.

1. You can be hit by AoE while dodge rolling.
2. You can be hit by DK Whip (must be a bug though, it also breaks cloak) - Bug, will be fixed
3. You can't really DPS while dodge rolling (yes, you can dodge cancel attacks, but lengthy dodge roll animation hits your DPS hard)

1) Not really a huge weakness, AoEs are low damage non-HardCC abilities mostly and since most are PBAoEs people have to manage to stay withing 6m of you to hit you. You can dodge roll through a couple of players fine, you just can't keep dodge rolling inside a zerg. You also avoid most of the roots, invasions and Hard CCs that if a LA user doesn't block he gets flat on his arse and dies instantly. And i can only block for 2" inside a zerg before my stamina drains and l melt along with my wards

2) That's a bug. Hopefully fixed sooner than later. Can't be considered in a balance discussion

3) You still can DPS while dodging better than I can DPS while spamming shields, cause I do 0 DPS doing that. Not to mention a passive dodge chance from medium armour that stacks with Evasion to provide a big reduction in damage (outside of roll dodge), on top of your superior armor mitigation.

Ultimately, shields cost more than dodge roll atm which is nuts and stamina builds (especially NBs and in particular Bosmer NBs) can easily move past 2.5k stam regen (that's the source of the problem) thus being able to dodge roll seemingly forever. The 3k-4k regens are insane, I don't even want to talk about them.

It's just that most non-duelists are not aware of all that. they just live in a small bubble where everything around them that kills them is overpowered UNLESS it's an identical build to theirs.

I don't know if ZOS will tamper with wards, I can't read their mind. But my guess is they will start looking at removing some of the cost reduction on dodge-roll before they even get close to tampering with wards.

We'll see.

I've come across multiple Sorcs able to throw curse etc at me before I get their 20-30k shields down (takes 2-3 Surprise Attacks minimum as they can't crit). There's plenty of time to DPS.

Also, the regen can easily be achieved for magicka as well, leading to the never-ending shield spam (with some BoLs mixed in between). Luckily, I know just the thing to instagib people (shields or not), otherwise I'd probably be pretty pissed off at the meta. Now I'm just bored.

That said, you should really try some AoE against the dodge roll spam, you'd be surprised how effective something like Steel Tornado can be, and caltrops is excellent for preventing the dodge roller from escaping (or cloaking if NB). Since you can't cloak, block or do anything while dodge rolling, that's actually when your target is vulnerable (to the right skills).


I think they should address the meta revolving around "who runs out of resources first" by making these survival abilities cost more.

E.g. a 20k dmg shield would cost something like 6-7k magicka, instead of the current 2-3k. Regen rates don't necessarily need to be tampered, but I'd like a bigger drawback to come from stacking them (e.g. dealing significantly less damage).

That way, people would have the survivability of dmg shields while not being able to spam them ad infinitum (which is the problem, mostly).

Also: more defensive abilities for magicka that aren't focused on being a magic bubble should be added.

20k-30k shields huh? lol @ the made-up numbers. My VR14 sorc, admittedly a sustain build but still with 2400 spell damage unbuffed and 25k magicka casts a Hardened Ward for 8.4k. Where is the other 12k-22k coming from? Also as the other guy said, to even hit 20k shield you need hardened, annulment, and healing ward (cast while low health) and even with spell cost reductions you are definitely in the 6-7+k magicka cost range.

Btw, harness magicka animation cancelled by roll dodge == invulnerable to sorcerors. If you are a stam temp blazing shield works almost as well. If you are a stam dk.....well FU and your flappity wings you jerk

eventide03b14a_ESO

I'm shocked to see another person post a new thread on wards. Everything the OP said is purely theoretical. In practice wards do not actually make you a god, despite was lousy players in PvP would have you believe.

Maulkin

hamon wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is no one. I like how after light got nerfed to be nothing but paper, people expect me to stack health. Why should I, so you can kill me even easier?

I think dodge-rolling is likely to get nerfed way before they even think about touching wards. That would be both fair and rather sweet too

you should be expected to sacrifice something if you want to survive in melee range. basically choosing light armour should be a choice to play at range as your means of survival. thats how it works in every game ever made like this. heavy armour is the choice of melee range..
this is the problem. folk are so used to wearing the armour thats made for being ranged dps and wanting to have the survivability of melee range armour..

right now this is achievable if your a sorc by shield stacking .. but it totally negates the whole point of why they actually fixed armour to reflect that.

the reason why sorcs got bolt escape, and why they have similar abilities traditionally in other games. like blink (the more traditional name for bolt) is because they traditionally need to be able to stay at distance to survive.

ESO has let light armour wearers come to expect that their choice of armour won't effect their survivability at all cos it didn't till 1.6. so basically if you think light armour isn't giving you enough survivability, and you want to play in melee range wear heavy armour ..

You're showing an outstanding lack of understanding about how the game works.

First off Light Armor is the worst kind of armor for being melee. If you played one you 'd know but you don't, so tell me more. Have you seen anyone actually tanking in light? or just casting shields while bolt escaping away?

Secondly, you cannot stay ranged. Every medium or heavy armor build has a gap closer with longer range than your escape. If every time smb got close you Bolt Escaped backwards, that's all you'd be doing all day. And you'd just be an easy kill for all the Crit Rushers. AND everybody would be still asking to nerf Bolt Escape (again) because that's all you do apparently.

So if Heavy is the choice for melee, as you say, how come Medium is awesome for both melee and range? What's the disadvantage of medium at the moment? It's got great heals, great burst, great damage avoidance and mitigation.

Answer: none.

Medium is currently better than light in every way. But keep asking for nerfs to light, cause you know that's the reason you die in PvP. All light armor builds with shields are god-mode to you

As for @DDuke and his 6-7k shields..... Sure, when dodge roll costs stamina users 8-10k stamina, I'm all for it. Then I'll go heavy armour and still melt faces

eventide03b14a_ESO

Tankqull wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

I've come across multiple Sorcs able to throw curse etc at me before I get their 20-30k shields down (takes 2-3 Surprise Attacks minimum as they can't crit). There's plenty of time to DPS.

Also, the regen can easily be achieved for magicka as well, leading to the never-ending shield spam (with some BoLs mixed in between). Luckily, I know just the thing to instagib people (shields or not), otherwise I'd probably be pretty pissed off at the meta. Now I'm just bored.

That said, you should really try some AoE against the dodge roll spam, you'd be surprised how effective something like Steel Tornado can be, and caltrops is excellent for preventing the dodge roller from escaping (or cloaking if NB). Since you can't cloak, block or do anything while dodge rolling, that's actually when your target is vulnerable (to the right skills).


I think they should address the meta revolving around "who runs out of resources first" by making these survival abilities cost more.

E.g. a 20k dmg shield would cost something like 6-7k magicka, instead of the current 2-3k. Regen rates don't necessarily need to be tampered, but I'd like a bigger drawback to come from stacking them (e.g. dealing significantly less damage).

That way, people would have the survivability of dmg shields while not being able to spam them ad infinitum (which is the problem, mostly).

Also: more defensive abilities for magicka that aren't focused on being a magic bubble should be added.

if you face a sorc with 20-30k shields it is either a display bug, you are not not affected by 50% of it as that part is dampen/harness magica wich doesent affect your melee abilites. or you allready had him down below 20% for the 300% increase on healing ward or last but not least he had to cast 3 different shields to get those numbers (where only 2/3 are actually affecting you wich completly negates your dps assumption) - but the more likely option is that your numbers are nothing but pulled from your hat.

well not everybody is a stamina user to spam caltrops all over the place or a dk with 70% snares tied to those abilities wich are great abilities to hinder a rollmops but no ae is actually killing a roller with 1-3x 500dmg ticks.

it awesome how missinformed you are to cast 20k worth of shields you have to cast 3 spells each in between 2,8k and 3,6k magica cost wich is exactly your 6-7k value.

Precisely. People who don't use so called "shield stacking" don't actually know how it works. They forget that annulment only works against spells, or that healing ward is most effective and efficient if you cast it at low health. Light armor offers absolutely no protection anymore. Even spell resistance is currently higher with heavy armor. It's these misinformed people who just come here spouting numbers they have simply made up and only illustrating exactly how bad of a player they actually are.

Valnas

the fact that siege isn't mitigatable, and that sharpened weapons make any amount of armor/resist a joke right now is why dmg shields are the meta. If i could not eat fatal dmg from full health frequently in one shot. The list of simple combo's is too long and the ttk too short.

Leave shields and fix how armor works. Is it 4/2/14 still ?

bloodenragedb14_ESO

hamon wrote: »

i dont normally debate with folk who use terms like "entitled and noobies" cos it generally shows a lack of maturity or intellect. that and an inflated ego . however i,ll endulge you this time by looking at your points above

so basically if you have nothing more that immature comments about "entitlement" to add, perhaps just let the adults talk

You have mistaken immaturity with irritation, understandable, however i did state i detested using that phrase.

Irritation on how many threads there are of this, even with the clear and present majority of non-sorc's and sorc's alike that oppose these threads, and the minimal that support in comparison. Its clear there is no problem with wards or rolling. You could have a hundred threads of rolling or wards, but if there are even more commentating on those threads that disagree, I fail to see the argument of the original posters

You have also misunderstood my class explanations, nitpicking what you can to put down another commentator
the class explanations merely showed example that the normal class systems do not apply, a sorc in medium or heavy armor playing the tank, it happens, a templar in medium or light playing the thief. again happens etc etc.This was meant to illustrate that there are a untold amount of builds and styles to play, not only that, you do not know what the other person is using as a build at first glance. Recurring patterns can be studied, researched, and countered easily. the unwillingness to do so is what i was showing my frustration at.

It does not change my opinion that many who call for nerfs are 'newbs' simply because they are unaware of this fact or choose to ignore it in favor of the 'entitled' route, which is more often than not, calling for nerfs when there is truly nothing wrong. This has lead to many unwanted changes to the vast majority of players, most of which do not follow the forums.

Irritation may have colored my text in a easily misunderstood manner, But i remain true to this point:

Before calling nerf, play the game, get better at the game, attempt to adapt and overcome. Humankind went through dark times 'praying' for 'nerfs' to the gods, when they could have instead worked to better themselves. No benevolent entity is going to help you. You are Human, Humans Adapt, Humans overcome.

Valnas

McDoogs wrote: »

[
I think that there are a lot of people heading to cyrodiil with dps/sustain builds who can't figure out why they cant get through damage shields, when they are attacking damage shield builds strengths and not their weaknesses (physical dmg burst/CC).

^

If you see shields, and you try to sustrain through it your gonna pool or stalemate. You need about 8k dps + some potential cc and/or a burst at the end when you land cc or get them low, otherwise you are better off just trying to kill them in a 1 second window with burst.

Samadhi

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is...

My 7/7 Nightblade, who needs enough of a health pool to be able to use Healing Ward rather than getting instant killed before being able to cast it (larger health pool = time available to cast reactionary ward that is largely useless at full health; larger window to cast as "low health" and receive the bonus).

My 7/7 Light Templar, who needs enough of a health pool to make Blazing Shield into a reasonable defense, because running 14k HP would mean less than 5k shield and less than 3k explosions.

My 7/7 Light Sorcerer is pure Magicka though -- unlike the other two, get an instant cast shield that scales higher based on Magicka (rather than health) and is still at maximum effect while at full health (but stack it with Healing Ward in emergencies).

Do not personally have any objection to Sorcerer's use of shields though. It benefits my own greatly, and simply means that the classes have some degree of difference between them in playstyle instead of using homogeneous builds.
If Hardened Ward was scaling off of Health rather than Magicka, would likely build my Sorcerer to the same mix as my Nightblade and Templar for a combination of the two reasons.

Maulkin

Samadhi wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is...

My 7/7 Nightblade, who needs enough of a health pool to be able to use Healing Ward rather than getting instant killed before being able to cast it (larger health pool = time available to cast reactionary ward that is largely useless at full health; larger window to cast as "low health" and receive the bonus).

My 7/7 Light Templar, who needs enough of a health pool to make Blazing Shield into a reasonable defense, because running 14k HP would mean less than 5k shield and less than 3k explosions.

My 7/7 Light Sorcerer is pure Magicka though -- unlike the other two, get an instant cast shield that scales higher based on Magicka (rather than health) and is still at maximum effect while at full health (but stack it with Healing Ward in emergencies).

Do not personally have any objection to Sorcerer's use of shields though. It benefits my own greatly, and simply means that the classes have some degree of difference between them in playstyle instead of using homogeneous builds.
If Hardened Ward was scaling off of Health rather than Magicka, would likely build my Sorcerer to the same mix as my Nightblade and Templar for a combination of the two reasons.

Stahp

Who are you even talking about? Who runs 14k HP in Cyro? The glassier of Sorcs are 18-19k. I run 21k.

When Fire Trebs do 13k + 6k insta-damage, who runs less than that? Cause I have certainly not seen anyone.

EDIT: And a lot of magicka NBs go for Whitestrakes obviously, so they can also majorly ignore HP and only use Healing Ward on top of the Whitestrake's shield.

Samadhi

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is...

My 7/7 Nightblade, who needs enough of a health pool to be able to use Healing Ward rather than getting instant killed before being able to cast it (larger health pool = time available to cast reactionary ward that is largely useless at full health; larger window to cast as "low health" and receive the bonus).

My 7/7 Light Templar, who needs enough of a health pool to make Blazing Shield into a reasonable defense, because running 14k HP would mean less than 5k shield and less than 3k explosions.

My 7/7 Light Sorcerer is pure Magicka though -- unlike the other two, get an instant cast shield that scales higher based on Magicka (rather than health) and is still at maximum effect while at full health (but stack it with Healing Ward in emergencies).

Do not personally have any objection to Sorcerer's use of shields though. It benefits my own greatly, and simply means that the classes have some degree of difference between them in playstyle instead of using homogeneous builds.
If Hardened Ward was scaling off of Health rather than Magicka, would likely build my Sorcerer to the same mix as my Nightblade and Templar for a combination of the two reasons.

Stahp

Who are you even talking about? Who runs 14k HP in Cyro? The glassier of Sorcs are 18-19k. I run 21k.

When Fire Trebs do 13k + 6k insta-damage, who runs less than that? Cause I have certainly not seen anyone.

14k was not my example, 14k was the example you were responding to when you said there was no reason to build Health.

Maulkin

Samadhi wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Scotia wrote: »

The problem isnt the shields its the fact they can be instant cast and two they can be repeatedly be cast, put a GCD on them or add a cast time, problem solved.

Wrecking blow have it scale less with your resource pools. Same with any other high damage spells that are over used. This will eventually happen but when.

If I can't recast my shields instantly at need, I die easily every time I'm attacked. It's that simple.

Light Armor is crap and dodge rolling more than once means I can't break free.

Idk only having 14k health may have something to do with it too. Hey though who needs health when you have instant shields huh?

Wrong question. The question you need to be asking is "Hey though who needs health when you have 0 damage mitigation, huh?" and the answer is...

My 7/7 Nightblade, who needs enough of a health pool to be able to use Healing Ward rather than getting instant killed before being able to cast it (larger health pool = time available to cast reactionary ward that is largely useless at full health; larger window to cast as "low health" and receive the bonus).

My 7/7 Light Templar, who needs enough of a health pool to make Blazing Shield into a reasonable defense, because running 14k HP would mean less than 5k shield and less than 3k explosions.

My 7/7 Light Sorcerer is pure Magicka though -- unlike the other two, get an instant cast shield that scales higher based on Magicka (rather than health) and is still at maximum effect while at full health (but stack it with Healing Ward in emergencies).

Do not personally have any objection to Sorcerer's use of shields though. It benefits my own greatly, and simply means that the classes have some degree of difference between them in playstyle instead of using homogeneous builds.
If Hardened Ward was scaling off of Health rather than Magicka, would likely build my Sorcerer to the same mix as my Nightblade and Templar for a combination of the two reasons.

Stahp

Who are you even talking about? Who runs 14k HP in Cyro? The glassier of Sorcs are 18-19k. I run 21k.

When Fire Trebs do 13k + 6k insta-damage, who runs less than that? Cause I have certainly not seen anyone.

14k was not my example, 14k was the example you were responding to when you said there was no reason to build Health.

There is no reason to build health beyond having enough of it to avoid one-shots and death by siege.

Quite frankly it was a mistake to have Wards scale off HP like they did for Temps and DKs. It benefits noone the way the game is and it was effectively a nerf to DKs and Temps, who are now far better as stamina builds considering their lack of escapes and damage output with LA.

Whooray, the tables have turned! Let's nerf the last class that is better as Magicka so we can all embrace this new stamina era.

Samadhi

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

...
EDIT: And a lot of magicka NBs go for Whitestrakes obviously, so they can also majorly ignore HP and only use Healing Ward on top of the Whitestrake's shield.

You editted this in after my previous post.

Personally currently go 4 Martial Knowledge + 4 Magnus + 2 Cyrodiils Light in order to maintain some level of damage.
It will be 4 Martial Knowledge + 3 Arch Mage (after getting the last piece needed) + 2 Cyrodiil's Light + 2 Torug's Pact at final.

Think if Magicka damage builds are going for a full 5 piece Health defense set to stack shields that might indicate a problem with the emphasis on shield stacking though.
Personally do just fine with only Healing Ward on my Nightblade.

Ezareth

DDuke wrote: »

You might want to reopen one of those threads, see how big shields I was able to attain & subtract 15% (the amount dmg shield strength was nerfed in Cyrodiil) from that.

You'll quickly notice that Hardened Ward still grants you a 16k~ shield with the correct build (probably people have found a way to get it even higher) with 70 CPs (there are people with 150+ now, which should be taken into account).
That+Healing Ward = 20-30k worth of shields (I did use the plural there, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to get single Hardened Ward for 20k+, after all it's possible with Blazing Shield atleast).

It is still a fact that casting shields is significantly more cost efficient than casting offensive abilities, and that people are able to spam them non-stop.

That said, the game atleast has other broken stuff to counter that broken stuff (such as 40-50k instant burst which you'll see in my next video).
It's sad that you have to use one extreme to counter another, but atleast the game is still playable for those not fond of spamming shields or dodge rolling 24/7 in PvP.

I'm one of those 150+ CP people.

In Cyrodiil my hardened ward displays just over 8k right now and I'm fully magicka specced with over 50 points into bastion right now and +15% or so to shields. My shield gives me just under 11k. No one has anywhere remotely close to a 16k hardened ward. My base healing ward is almost exactly 4k. So a sorc easily in the top 1% of sorcs in gearing and champion points is able to stack 15k in shields. The healing ward can be up to 16k if it was cast at very low health. Let's keep things relative here. I was grouped with a sorc last night who had all his champion in spell resistance and crit reduction. There are a ton of players who aren't stacking bastion who dont even understand or care about the math behind everything.

If you're spamming ambush solo against a sorc you're just a bad player. I dont think ive ever died to a nb doing that and those NBs have always been the easiest to kill. Shields are the direct counter to that style of play so I can understand why you'd want them nerfed.

DDuke

Ezareth wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

You might want to reopen one of those threads, see how big shields I was able to attain & subtract 15% (the amount dmg shield strength was nerfed in Cyrodiil) from that.

You'll quickly notice that Hardened Ward still grants you a 16k~ shield with the correct build (probably people have found a way to get it even higher) with 70 CPs (there are people with 150+ now, which should be taken into account).
That+Healing Ward = 20-30k worth of shields (I did use the plural there, though I wouldn't be surprised if someone managed to get single Hardened Ward for 20k+, after all it's possible with Blazing Shield atleast).

It is still a fact that casting shields is significantly more cost efficient than casting offensive abilities, and that people are able to spam them non-stop.

That said, the game atleast has other broken stuff to counter that broken stuff (such as 40-50k instant burst which you'll see in my next video).
It's sad that you have to use one extreme to counter another, but atleast the game is still playable for those not fond of spamming shields or dodge rolling 24/7 in PvP.

I'm one of those 150+ CP people.

In Cyrodiil my hardened ward displays just over 8k right now and I'm fully magicka specced with over 50 points into bastion right now and +15% or so to shields. My shield gives me just under 11k. No one has anywhere remotely close to a 16k hardened ward. My base healing ward is almost exactly 4k. So a sorc easily in the top 1% of sorcs in gearing and champion points is able to stack 15k in shields. The healing ward can be up to 16k if it was cast at very low health. Let's keep things relative here. I was grouped with a sorc last night who had all his champion in spell resistance and crit reduction. There are a ton of players who aren't stacking bastion who dont even understand or care about the math behind everything.

If you're spamming ambush solo against a sorc you're just a bad player. I dont think ive ever died to a nb doing that and those NBs have always been the easiest to kill. Shields are the direct counter to that style of play so I can understand why you'd want them nerfed.

Well, just by opening the first video on your channel, I can tell you're below 30k magicka. No wonder your shields are "only" 11k.

There are sorcs running around with 30k++, and it's actually possible to reach up to 40-50k magicka by using certain build/gear.

As for "spamming Ambush", I don't know where you're getting that idea

Ambush->Surprise Attack (or Soul Harvest when available) deals considerable amount more damage, as does a certain wombo combo (which I'll be giving away in my next video) which is pretty much instagibbing anyone, shield stacked or not. Maybe you're mistaking me for someone else?

But hey, nice strawman

Oughash

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm one of those 150+ CP people.

This is the bigger problem that almost anything else.

I suspect Ez sits in the top 1% of CP earners. I have 105 or something. I did an informal poll of LoM and most people are sitting in the 70-100 range. As months continue, the power gap between players like Ez and most of the player base will increase linearly since CPs scale linearly above ~30 pts. If his rate of CP acquisition continues, he'll have 225 early-to-mid May and 360 before the end of July. Several of the 120 pt passives are game-changers. Regardless, the remainder of the player base will be sitting around 150-200 in July. The power delta will be 10-15% and continue to increase once XP pots become available.

cozmon3c_ESO

i have 16555 health in cyrodiil, i do just fine. one mistake and im dead but i dont make many mistakes.