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• [IN PROGRESS] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
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Auction House ?
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BigM✭✭✭✭✭
✭I have to LOL on auction horse. You have 5 guilds you can join and hundreds of other guilds you can access and buy from. Please ZoS do not think of changing how the game is now when it comes to auction houses. Personally I love how the auction house is setup in this game. It's different and works out great. In fact I would love to see this done in other games.“The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.”
― Stephen Hawking1 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭If a system requires addons to be even remotely user-friendly, it's a flawed system.
The system does not. Are there user-friendly features missing? Sure. But this is a function of the implementation, not the system as a concept.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lets tackle this point by point to address a lot of the silly "Pro - AH" arguments in this thread.
1) A portion of players in this game, myself included, enjoy the commerce content of this game. Some of us came from Star Wars Galaxies, which I would argue was THE best Sandbox MMO in existence (I did not play UO) that had a great economy. Let me make clear, to those who specifically did not play this game, the gear in SWG was all player crafted and the stats verified depending on the skill of the crafter (multiple factors). In other words the crafted "Staff of the Monkey" did not have the same stats regardless of who crafted it (as exists in WoW and ESO). Warlock Gear will always have the same stats, no matter who crafts it. Keep this point in the back of your minds.
1a) Just because you consider "content" to be Raiding, PvP, Questing, or running dungeons does not mean it is more important than players who enjoy crafting as their primary content. Some of us have been waiting for an MMO where crafted goods are at the center.
2) We have two basic types of MMOs : Loot centric and player centric. Loot centric MMOs are games where the best gear comes from PvE content like raiding (World of Warcraft). Player centric MMOs (ESO) are where crafted goods make up the majority of the economy. I know it's arguable and probably depending on your build where your best gear comes from but it's safe to say the majority of gear in this game is player crafted. ZOS made that clear before the game went Live, they wanted crafted gear to be best gear in game.
2a) Gear in this game does not rot. It loses durability and you pay to have it repaired. In SWG, the gear could break over time after so many repairs and was completely consumed meaning you had to buy new gear to replace it (Speaking before the age of anti-decay kits). This is an awesome and necessary component of a healthy, player centric MMO economy. Consumables.
3) Refer back to my point in 1). There is no difference in stats or quality of crafted gear if I craft or if you craft it. With that said, a global auction house would come down to an undercutting war to move items because most games today are in this instant gratification, I want it now!, paradigm. This sounds great for a buyer because people will keep undercutting each other and you the buyer will just benefit. But do you think that is really good for the game? An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, so an Auction House doesn't really allow for that assessment. Most of you Pro Auction House people argue you want fair sellers and responsible sellers...but does that mean buyers don't need to be responsible too? Shouldn't you the buyer being doing research and checking multiple shops for the better deal? Funny how that goes one way...
It's fairly easy to make money in this game and there are not a lot of huge gold sinks in this game. The game of Commerce IS a gold sink, but not when you blend a mix of a global auction house and our Chinese gold farming buddies in a player centric economy. The latter has a dark, center circle of hell type of effect on our favorite games as I am sure you all agree.
The first issue I have with our CGF (Chinese Gold Farmer) friends is the currency exchange. This is the main reason you don't have US based gold farming sweatshops. We have a minimum wage (lets call it 8 bucks an hour), and the exchange is 1 YUAN= $00.16. The American dollar goes a mile further in China than it does in this country. Check out this article, it's dated, but it reinforces my point http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/magazine/17lootfarmers-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 Just google "Gold Farming Sweatshops" Prison camps forced inmates to farm gold in sweatshops, etc.
- A sweatshop can employ 100s of workers at pennies per hour and farm a mass amount of gold for any given MMO, then drastically undercut any American competition. Yes we have heard this argument before with companies like WalMart and *** (sorry if it's the wrong shoe company). Guess what, that same garbage has spilled over to the MMO industry, which was a 300 million dollar (7 billion Yuan) industry in 2008 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_farming). I imagine it's in the billions today.
The second issue I have is called hyper-inflation. It wouldn't be so bad honestly if the gear in the game rotted and needed to be replaced (consumed). But at some point, you end up with an Auction House containing 1000s of gear no one buys because everyone already has it and it's at a dirt cheap price. This is what happens when thousands of "3 pennies per hour" laborers flood the Auction House with end game raw materials (endless supply of tannins and crafted gear). It's not good. You're going to have to sacrifice your desire for convenience for the greater good.
- One way around this is of course to try to implement a system that wont allow foreign IPs on the NA server. I am not all that tech savvy so not sure how practical this solution would be. Or you can all just be responsible and stop buying gold in the first place, but that's not going to happen.
- So why is this not an issue in World of Warcraft? Well, again, because the gear isn't crafted. However, it is now becoming very problematic because raids have been dumbed down so badly that people are just purchasing carries through raids in order to get the best gear.
All in all, an Auction House is a tool for convenience but it hurts crafter content in games like ESO. If we could dive deeper into crafting skills and actually become distinguished crafters where my skill set could affect the stats on the gear I craft, then yes an auction house MIGHT be okay in the scenario. You have several factors that need be addressed before even considering the implementation of an Auction House. In the game's current state, no it would not work.
Edited by Makkir on March 27, 2015 1:41AM2 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.
Every economist in the world disagrees with you.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.
Every economist in the world disagrees with you.
Easy to say. But can you prove it? Because I can prove that your blanket statement is wrong given the right parameters to the question.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.
Every economist in the world disagrees with you.
Easy to say. But can you prove it? Because I can prove that your blanket statement is wrong given the right parameters to the question.
Sure, go back and read my posts. To be honest, I'm tired of posting the same thing over and over again. I'm interested in stimulating the economy, not overcharging for common mats. To that end, you and I will never agree.1 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
2 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've posted before that ZOS have the user data, if they see a flaw they will inevitably address it. I think the system works fine.
What I haven't said before is that this is the game the pro-AH lobby signed up for. This game does not have an AH but an intricate web of player-driven stores that create an engaging economy. It's what you signed up for. There are many, many games out there that can cater to the AH crowd if that's what you want.
Personally on a megaserver I think it's safe to say it'd be a race to the bottom and would ruin our economy.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.
Every economist in the world disagrees with you.
Easy to say. But can you prove it? Because I can prove that your blanket statement is wrong given the right parameters to the question.
Sure, go back and read my posts. To be honest, I'm tired of posting the same thing over and over again. I'm interested in stimulating the economy, not overcharging for common mats. To that end, you and I will never agree.
Your posts are not proof. And the mats are not being overcharged for. But we can agree on one thing if that's your argument, that you and I will never agree. But I can at least posit that I have tried.I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
Sorry, another fallacy. In fact, I like the idea more than anything else. I don't really participate in the current system other than tangentially. But I can see something that is unique and has unique opportunities without directly benefiting from it.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭I've posted before that ZOS have the user data, if they see a flaw they will inevitably address it. I think the system works fine.
What I haven't said before is that this is the game the pro-AH lobby signed up for. This game does not have an AH but an intricate web of player-driven stores that create an engaging economy. It's what you signed up for. There are many, many games out there that can cater to the AH crowd if that's what you want.
Personally on a megaserver I think it's safe to say it'd be a race to the bottom and would ruin our economy.
You want a captive market so you can extort them.0 -
Jaxsun✭✭✭✭Trade guilds suck the knob. Auction House is the only way to go. The core mechanics of the game do not revolve around the trade guilds as someone suggested.
Some of the game's core mechanics:- The banking/guild store npc
- The ability to join 5 guilds
- Guild Kiosks
- The ability to access a guild store from within a captured keep in Cyrodiil
All are core mechanics within the game. The game was built for the trading guild system, and it's a refreshing improvement on a global AH, where everyone makes a pittance because pricing becomes a race to the bottom.
These are "quality of life" functions of the game. Core mechanics are things like "smart heals" and the inability to "cycle target outward or inward" with a keybind.
No AH=extortion.0 -
Anilahation✭✭✭✭Most games with an auction house... don't have a single server... also guild stores are huge due to the fact they are cross faction.0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
I have a full-time job, and one part time job, and yet I am entirely against a global Auction House. I also carry out a modest amount of trade, usually to repeat customers who are now contacting me by mail as they are happy with my work and prices. Perhaps time to go back and reassess your assumptions?2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Arizona_Willie wrote: »I keep getting emails wanting me to come back.
Did they ever put an Auction House in the game?
With all the crafting that is core to this game, an AH is a necessity.
Public Guild Stores are NOT the answer.
Unfortunately no.
They are still stubbornly holding on to their flawed guild store system. Though to be fair: it has been improved slightly by allowing you to at least buy from other guilds who set up shop in towns and checkpoints across the world. But it's still cumbersome and ineffective in most cases.
The game has definitely gotten better though. The new Justice System helps alleviate the poor economy because you can make a lot of gold stealing and then selling your ill-gotten wares on the black market (it's also surprisingly fun to do). So I would highly recommend you give the game another shot.Edited by Jeremy on March 27, 2015 12:47AM1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont always agree with Jeremy, but when I do it's when he recommends coming back to the game for another shot...
Or am I just REALLY DrunkEdited by Makkir on March 27, 2015 1:40AM0 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Trade guilds suck the knob. Auction House is the only way to go. The core mechanics of the game do not revolve around the trade guilds as someone suggested.
Some of the game's core mechanics:- The banking/guild store npc
- The ability to join 5 guilds
- Guild Kiosks
- The ability to access a guild store from within a captured keep in Cyrodiil
All are core mechanics within the game. The game was built for the trading guild system, and it's a refreshing improvement on a global AH, where everyone makes a pittance because pricing becomes a race to the bottom.
These are "quality of life" functions of the game. Core mechanics are things like "smart heals" and the inability to "cycle target outward or inward" with a keybind.
No AH=extortion.
No it's not. If it's priced too high don't buy it. Then the seller reposts at a lower price until it sells. You just don't want to fork over the gold.2 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
I have a full-time job, and one part time job, and yet I am entirely against a global Auction House. I also carry out a modest amount of trade, usually to repeat customers who are now contacting me by mail as they are happy with my work and prices. Perhaps time to go back and reassess your assumptions?
Sure, I'll re-assess. Revised: anti-AH = people without a job or people who like to spend the limited time they have for ESO playing the 'inventory management' and 'guild trade' mini games.
Note that I'm not actually pro-AH myself, more on the fence. What I am saying is that ZOS needs to streamline and fix their current system to make it less of a time sink for the time poor.2 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
I have a full-time job, and one part time job, and yet I am entirely against a global Auction House. I also carry out a modest amount of trade, usually to repeat customers who are now contacting me by mail as they are happy with my work and prices. Perhaps time to go back and reassess your assumptions?
Sure, I'll re-assess. Revised: anti-AH = people without a job or people who like to spend the limited time they have for ESO playing the 'inventory management' and 'guild trade' mini games.
Note that I'm not actually pro-AH myself, more on the fence. What I am saying is that ZOS needs to streamline and fix their current system to make it less of a time sink for the time poor.
I actually don't spend much time managing inventory nor guild trade. Re-assess again?Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
I have a full-time job, and one part time job, and yet I am entirely against a global Auction House. I also carry out a modest amount of trade, usually to repeat customers who are now contacting me by mail as they are happy with my work and prices. Perhaps time to go back and reassess your assumptions?
Sure, I'll re-assess. Revised: anti-AH = people without a job or people who like to spend the limited time they have for ESO playing the 'inventory management' and 'guild trade' mini games.
Note that I'm not actually pro-AH myself, more on the fence. What I am saying is that ZOS needs to streamline and fix their current system to make it less of a time sink for the time poor.
I actually don't spend much time managing inventory nor guild trade. Re-assess again?
Nope. I'm calling you out on this one. What do you you consider "much time"? How much time do you actually spend on Guild Store: Unlimited? And don't even try for a fake or low estimate. Remember, you're under oath.
1 -
wraith808✭✭✭✭I feel the pro-AH vs anti-AH groups would closely align with "has a job" and "doesn't have a job" groups as well. If you work, have a family (that you pay attention to that is), the inventory management and current trade system will take a huge bite out of the limited time you have to play the game. It's terribly wasteful to those who don't have all day to fool around with a flawed, clunky and inefficient system.
I have a full-time job, and one part time job, and yet I am entirely against a global Auction House. I also carry out a modest amount of trade, usually to repeat customers who are now contacting me by mail as they are happy with my work and prices. Perhaps time to go back and reassess your assumptions?
Sure, I'll re-assess. Revised: anti-AH = people without a job or people who like to spend the limited time they have for ESO playing the 'inventory management' and 'guild trade' mini games.
Note that I'm not actually pro-AH myself, more on the fence. What I am saying is that ZOS needs to streamline and fix their current system to make it less of a time sink for the time poor.
I actually don't spend much time managing inventory nor guild trade. Re-assess again?
Nope. I'm calling you out on this one. What do you you consider "much time"? How much time do you actually spend on Guild Store: Unlimited? And don't even try for a fake or low estimate. Remember, you're under oath.
I'm under no compulsion to answer in any way shape or form. But maybe 5 minutes a day? If that? Bank Manager Revived helps a lot, as does MM. But even without them, I didn't spend all that much time... maybe double that. So again... generalizations are generally wrong.Quasim ibn-Muhammad - VR 12 Redguard Dragon Knight
Taladriel Vanima - VR 5 Altmer Nightblade
Ambalyo iyo Bogaadin - VR 1 Redguard Sorceror0 -
It will happen one day
WoW never started out with a Action House it was about a year later when it came out, So give them time it will happen. 0 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »Drachenfier wrote: »
In ESO, i just vendor them, because I have no friggin clue what they're actually selling for, and I don't have time to spam zone chat.
Being uninformed is a pretty poor argument to overhaul the entire system. Try using Master Merchant if you can't determine the value of your goods on your own.
I'm not uninformed, I'm hindered by poor design. That's a pretty good argument for overhaul.
One person's (or group of people's) hindrance by what they consider poor design is not. That's the reason that common ground is a good goal for these discussions, rather than dismissing others' viewpoints and experiences out of hand.
Except that it is not a 'perception', its not my opinion, it is a fact that the market is limited by design. Limited access is a hindrance to economy, there's no debate here.
It is your opinion. You might not think there is a debate, or even want to debate. But that doesn't make it so.
Every economist in the world disagrees with you.
Easy to say. But can you prove it? Because I can prove that your blanket statement is wrong given the right parameters to the question.
Sure, go back and read my posts. To be honest, I'm tired of posting the same thing over and over again. I'm interested in stimulating the economy, not overcharging for common mats. To that end, you and I will never agree.
Your posts are not proof. And the mats are not being overcharged for. But we can agree on one thing if that's your argument, that you and I will never agree. But I can at least posit that I have tried.
The proof is in the game. The fact that prices are all over the place because there is no centralized economy is a good start.And the mats are not being overcharged for.
Says who? You? Of course YOU don't think they are, because you're happy to gouge your fellow consumer with limited access inflation pricing. I guarantee you that whatever you're charging for mats would be a lot less if there was a central AH. But, you don't want that, do you? Of course not.
I'm not much of a seller, even though I've made millions in SWTOR just selling mats I don't need on the open market, but I am a buyer, and I have yet to buy anything in ESO, because the system is spastic. I see prices all over the damn place, no regulation whatsoever besides the little mini-vacuum created in each guild store. It's ridiculous, and the only people I see liking this system are the sellers that don't have to worry about competitive pricing.
Not to mention the fact that beyond all this discussion about economy, when the system requires addons to not be a complete mess, it's an automatic failure.2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I LIKE that prices are all over the place.... it's more realistic.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!1
