Master Merchant is a very helpful addon. You can make a ton of money through the guild stores; you can do things like buy something from one guild store that is cheap and sell it in another for 10x the price. It takes some getting used to but I feel there is more opportunity to make some quick cash than with a universal AH system.

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

This trading system is probably the most awful I've seen; having a "healthy economy" cartelizing the market, forcing people into trading guilds, fake guilds.

Even Tibia (mmorpg since 1997) abandoned the chat spam direct/cod trading and has an Auction House; but not ESO, we are "special"... and sheeps like it.

Whoa whoa whoa there Bucky!

How the hell is a trading guild any less real than say a Dungeon grinding guild, PvP Guild, Leveling Guild, or God Forbid!, a Role Playing Guild?

Ever hear of Merchant Guilds? GUESS WHAT! That's what a Trading Guild is! A Guild of Merchants trading their wares!

*mock look of surprise* Who would have F'ING guessed!?

AshySamurai wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

So Ashy, what are your thoughts on an AH then lol

I'm so tired of prooving why AH will kill all economic in game.

I have yet to see a single shred of proof to support this claim. Ever. I was big on this AH argument back at launch, and all I saw were nonsensical assertions and straw man arguments as reasons not to have one.

Lestorn wrote: »

They've had one since release.

They're called GUILD STORES!

*gasps in mock surprise*

First, the present system wasn't in at release. The original system was expanded because it was awful.

Second, it's still awful. Only those who belong to a certain number of guilds with restricted membership can sell goods, and buying goods involves traipsing around different kiosks across the world. It simply doesn't work as an effective public trading system, it's far too restricted at all levels of the game.

I can't for the life of me remember when or where I saw it, but the best compromise idea I've ever heard regarding trade guilds was the following (paraphrased from my own memory):

1) Get rid of all the guild trader kiosks entirely.

2) Give bankers a new option, called "Trade Guilds" or something.

3) When you click on it, you get a list of 100* guilds. You pick one, and it opens the same interface that you get from the guild kiosk. You still have to search though each guild separately, but you can at least access them all from one location (any bank).

* The number of guilds allowed on the list should be about the same as the number of different trade kiosks currently available in the world (I'm assuming it's about 100 for this explanation).

4) Guilds still bid for a position on the list. Just instead of bidding on a particular trader and their location, you are simply bidding for position on the single master list. Guilds are ordered on the list by bid amount. Top bidder gets top slot. Top 100 bidders get on the list. Anything below that doesn't get on the list. There is only one master list, and every banker in the world accesses the same list.

This system sounds great because it works very similar to the current system (meaning minimal overhaul, and it maintains the current system's advantages), but without the stupid issue of buyers having to run all over the world to shop for stuff.

Personally, I thought it was genius when I read it. Wish I could give credit to whoever suggested it...

Tandor wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I can't for the life of me remember when or where I saw it, but the best compromise idea I've ever heard regarding trade guilds was the following (paraphrased from my own memory):

1) Get rid of all the guild trader kiosks entirely.

2) Give bankers a new option, called "Trade Guilds" or something.

3) When you click on it, you get a list of 100 guilds. You pick one, and it opens the same interface that you get from the guild kiosk. You still have to search though each guild separately, but you can at least access them all from one location (any bank).

4) Guilds still bid for a position on the list. Just instead of bidding on a particular trader and their location, you are simply bidding for position on the single master list. Guilds are ordered on the list by bid amount. Top bidder gets top slot. Top 100 bidders get on the list. Anything below that doesn't get on the list. There is only one master list, and every banker in the world accesses the same list.

This system sounds great because it works very similar to the current system (meaning minimal overhaul, and it maintains the current system's advantages), but without the stupid issue of buyers having to run all over the world to shop for stuff.

Personally, I thought it was genius when I read it. Wish I could give credit to whoever suggested it...

Such a system would help buyers marginally, but not sellers. You'd still have to belong to a guild in order to sell goods publicly, and which guild you belonged to would determine how effectively you could sell your goods. Even for buyers there'd only be a marginal improvement because you'd still need to trawl through 100 guild lists to look for what you were after at the best price, the only advantage being that you'd stand in one spot while doing so. As a buyer, would you want to look through 100 lists? As a seller, would you want to belong to the 90% of guilds whose lists no buyer bothered to get down to?

Oh, I'm not saying that it's nearly as good as a true Auction House, but since we have to assume that we are never getting one of those, it's a great start to improving the existing system.

And yes, agreed, it helps buyers far more than sellers. But it does help sellers a bit, since guilds can't get screwed out of a kiosk entirely unless they are very small, and it greatly improves visibility for guilds that would never have been able to afford a kiosk in Rawl'kha or the other major hubs.

As a buyer, I'd FAR prefer to dig though 100 guilds that I can access from any bank, than have to run around the whole world to check them. As a seller, being lower on the list is certainly no worse than a system where people can only access my goods from some horribly inconvenient location.

The system is fine as it is.

If you want to find a rare item, you have to put some effort instead of opening a window, scrolling to about 20 such 'rare' items and selecting the cheapest.

It promotes arbitrage and bargains. Sellers can corner their part of the market, buying cheap and selling higher, without having to compete with every other seller on the server. Buyers can find really cheap items, that would have been scooped up at once in an auction house system.

The possible improvements I can think of are: A couple more guild slots; More sorting options in the shop screen; Customizable store fronts.

This post will be copied and pasted on any clone threads that will inevitably happen. Perhaps you are reading a clone thread right now

Xabien wrote: »

There seems to be this whole paranoid theory by those who refuse to participate that trading guilds are trying to "corner the market" and kind of hoard things. It's not that way at all.

What proportion of trading guilds get kiosks in good positions on a regular basis?

What proportion of the total playerbase do those guilds represent?

Would you agree to those supporting the present system being required to list the guilds they're in and their position in the kiosk market?

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

This trading system is probably the most awful I've seen; having a "healthy economy" cartelizing the market, forcing people into trading guilds, fake guilds.

My "fake" trading guild has a lively chat, regularly quests together and meets up for some fun in the Rosy Lion Inn; in fact, I've just returned from an event we held today in Daggerfall. If you're in one of the silent pseudo-AHs, I feel for you, but not all guilds are like this - and even when they are, it still takes effort to maintain a large number of active members. Don't diss trading guilds.

Xabien wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

This trading system is probably the most awful I've seen; having a "healthy economy" cartelizing the market, forcing people into trading guilds, fake guilds.

My "fake" trading guild has a lively chat, regularly quests together and meets up for some fun in the Rosy Lion Inn; in fact, I've just returned from an event we held today in Daggerfall. If you're in one of the silent pseudo-AHs, I feel for you, but not all guilds are like this - and even when they are, it still takes effort to maintain a large number of active members. Don't diss trading guilds.

I'll agree with Ros on this, I'm in the very same trading guild. We just spent the past two hours meeting and greeting new players as they entered Daggarfall, giving them starter packs. There are a lot of quality guilds out there, but like any game, you also find less quality ones. The beauty is you can keep looking until you find the right fit

Or, you could offer us invites Why you holdin out?

Danikat wrote: »

But it does feel a bit like a throw-back to ye olde days of Ultima Online when everyone stood around the bank hoping desperately to come across someone selling what they wanted to buy.

It does, doesn't it?

Oh... did you mean that as a negative?

Drachenfier wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

Laerania_ESO wrote: »

This trading system is probably the most awful I've seen; having a "healthy economy" cartelizing the market, forcing people into trading guilds, fake guilds.

My "fake" trading guild has a lively chat, regularly quests together and meets up for some fun in the Rosy Lion Inn; in fact, I've just returned from an event we held today in Daggerfall. If you're in one of the silent pseudo-AHs, I feel for you, but not all guilds are like this - and even when they are, it still takes effort to maintain a large number of active members. Don't diss trading guilds.

I'll agree with Ros on this, I'm in the very same trading guild. We just spent the past two hours meeting and greeting new players as they entered Daggarfall, giving them starter packs. There are a lot of quality guilds out there, but like any game, you also find less quality ones. The beauty is you can keep looking until you find the right fit

Or, you could offer us invites Why you holdin out?

We are pretty full, but you are more than welcome to check in with us regularly (we're EU server btw). We're open to all, so when there's room anyone is welcome. Check out our website if you want, it'll explain what we, as a trading guild are about: imperialtradingcompany.net.

Xendyn wrote: »

No AH and probably won't be.

The current system is inadequate. A global AH isn't a necessity, but something does need to improve with this system.

I'll put this from a buyers perspective. There are some items, like set pieces, that are extremely difficult to come by because people just don't sell them that often.Its not that they are particularly valuable or rare either. Having a publicly accessible market would be significantly more beneficial to most users. I think a special item vendors that could resell items to the public could work without destroying the purpose of trade guilds. DDO has something like this. (They also have an AH.)


I'm in Balmart btw.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version and removed response]

Jaxsun wrote: »

Trade guilds suck the knob. Auction House is the only way to go. The core mechanics of the game do not revolve around the trade guilds as someone suggested.

Some of the game's core mechanics:

• The banking/guild store npc
• The ability to join 5 guilds
• Guild Kiosks
• The ability to access a guild store from within a captured keep in Cyrodiil

All are core mechanics within the game. The game was built for the trading guild system, and it's a refreshing improvement on a global AH, where everyone makes a pittance because pricing becomes a race to the bottom.

Holycannoli wrote: »

b_archaonpreeb18_ESO wrote: »

It promotes arbitrage and bargains. Sellers can corner their part of the market, buying cheap and selling higher, without having to compete with every other seller on the server..

So you don't want competition. Cornering parts of the market is not a good thing. Competition is. There are reasons why most every other MMORPG out there the last few years has had an auction house. The two most important reasons are convenience and competition to keep prices reasonable.

Many economists consider competition to be vital to the economy you know.

There is competition, every trade guild is in competition with the others. What they are not is one big room yelling and shouting and screaming and undercutting one another until there's no profit left to be had by anyone. Look at GW2, you can pick up the very best stuff short of BIS for absolute pennies. Not good for anyone, because no one can make enough money to actually buy the BIS stuff when it comes to it.