xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Today I saw groups of 30 use siege on groups of 10 and less. PvP is just pathetic at this point

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

I like how those people who thought that were good are now weeded out as simple gear and level dependent "average joes" who followed someone elses build and can't adapt to what was the original design idea at launch... oh sweet melody of their cries. cookie cutter followers with no adaptation skills

I like how every super skilled awesome player has come out of the woodwork to say this change is so awesome :eyeroll:. Yes, weeded out by a simple, idiot proof mechanic that is against everything an MMO is supposed to be. Yup. We are the bad players.

I do not consider myself to be a good player by any means. But when i can one shot whole note worthy enemy raids like Sandman, Havoc, IR, etc you know something is wrong with PvP. Some people say that they love the new siege damage because its finally something we have to counter the zergs. But when you see bigger raids using siege for smaller groups you know its just stupid, and PvP is now SvS.

frozywozy wrote: »

ThyIronFist wrote: »

This thread makes me very happy.

I'll make sure to hit the store tomorrow and get myself some popcorn. This is beautiful.

Anyhow, there are many, many ways of countering siege. As most of veterans know;

- Purge
- Siege bubble
- Use heals and/or stack shields
- Use abilities or armour sets that reduce damage/AoE/siege damage
- Kill the defenseless player operating the siege
- Move out of the red circle!!!!!!!!
- Shoot at the siege weapon with a normal ballista to destroy it
- Take cover
- Siege weapons have to reload, if its reloading, it wont kill you


I know it's hard, lol, but for the veterans, like myself, you've had the past 12 months to learn and avoid that obvious red circle on the ground. Most players just got used of staying inside it, knowing that it wouldnt 1 or 2 shot them.

I experienced it myself for several hours before coming here and stating my own opinion on the matter and I must admit that it is working very well. There are some adjustments to bring but it is still much better than it used to be prior fix.

I have read every single reply from this thread so far and from what I can see, people who complain about it are people who don't like to be one shotted or to see their health bar drop drastically. Some other people also believe that this fix will actually favor zergs in most scenarios and make them a bigger threat. I still have a hard time to understand their point but we will get through this in a moment.

What I do feel is and it's been mentioned here a couple times is that people got lazy and got used to just stand in the circles and eat the damage from sieges, the last couple months. They would pop GDB, Healing Ward or BoL once and that's it.

This isn't how the game was designed to be though. Siege is supposed to be deployed to give a major advantage to the people who use it. You are supposed to adjust in consequence to survive against siege. You are supposed to either move out of the way and engage from another direction or you gear and spec accordingly to allow you to absorb the damage delt.

Like people mentioned, too many players are spec as glass cannons and expect to be successful in battle in any scenario. Well sir, it is time for you to realize that you must find the perfect balance in this world to be effective. If you are the extreme type of player who prefer to play all or nothing, well you can either play the sneaky 14k hps nightblade glass cannon roll stealther or you can be the big wild dragonknight heavy armor type of guy. Or you find the just middle and can still deal with siege absolutely fine.

In any scenario, people need to realize that you must get back your old reflexes of avoiding siege damage. You must also keep in mind that when people start deploying massive amount of sieges in front of you, well, you weren't fast enough to engage them and that was just bad positioning and coordinating there. Fall back and try to go from a different angle. This was according to an open field type of battle but the same goes for the keep assaults. I will give suggestions regarding this in a second.

Another point I would like to cover here. Even though it's been several months into the game already, alot of people still have alot to learn regarding survivability. They refuse to slot some key abilities on their bars. People has been talking about them in this thread. We've been talking about self heals, shield abilities, siege shields, purges, focus fire on the siegers (either with bows, stealth attacks, etc). We've been talking about counter-sieging, about moving out of the red circles. All of those are very valid strategies that I'm pretty sure alot of people who have been frustrated the past couple days over high siege damage refuse to experiment.

I talk regulary with people who still barely use any shield ability. This is unacceptable. Lot and lot of players just refuse to pre-cast one single shield before each engagement. I will tell you something, I have been playing for months pre-casting 3-4shields before every single engagement. I'm sure you can go with one, won't hurt ya.

Last point I want to cover before I reply to one post here.

HEALERS AND SUPPORT CHARATERS. Your role during battle is now more important than it has never been before. During keep assaults, you MUST have a mix of the 4 following abilities on your bar :

- Siege Shield
- Purge
- Breath of Life
- Healing Spring

PEOPLE SIEGING THE KEEP. Your role during battle is to make sure to recast your shield abilities between each shot of your siege weapon. This will greatly help the job of your healers / support players.

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

Seriously, and I've said this plenty of times, the only thing you should be mad about is that this damage wasn't implemented until now. It's siege. It's a 5 ton boulder dipped in oil and lit on fire, and it just hit you in the face at high speed. Think about how often in a siege you were able to just run around in the aoe's without a care. We all got used to it, but it ticked a lot of players off. The point of siege was to hit walls and be a minor inconvenience while trying to go through the breach in the wall. Now it's useful, and low and behold, the players are crying.

If you're going to post a screenshot of the damage you received from a ballista bolt, be sure to include your 17k health, 2300 wp/sp damage, your 5k armor, and your stage 4 vampirism, too. Most of the people whining are glass cannons, and have been used to just stacking damage and being able to get away with it. Now players are upset they may have to invest in some fire resist, heavy armor, or even a completely different set of gear, sacrificing some of that precious damage.

I personally love this change. And yes, I've been wrecked multiple times by siege already, smiling as I read my death recap. This is something that should have been in the game for a long time. There are solutions to the problems people are whining about, that they are failing to realize. If you're being sieged, siege back. Don't stand in AoE's. Consider investing in some more stamina to be able to actually roll. wait what? roll? I know. roll dodge, you'll have to work your little bambi legs out some, but you'll learn eventually. I feel that this change is a step in the right direction. This kind of damage will enable smaller groups to capture objectives, while big obvious groups are under siege. Defense is now possible with smaller numbers, and may even allow groups to break off during defense to flag another objective, breaking up the enemy zerg, or forcing them to choose to have to defend or attack. I'm sure this post will come under flak. If you disagree, you are required to state the following motto before proceeding with your reply.

I am a zergling. I have low health, low armor, low survivability. But given that I am a zergling, I need only to spam light attacks while running alongside 30 of my fellow zerglings to get by. I mindlessly follow the AP farmer, annointed by the AP Divines, who was nice enough to recruit me straight from zone chat. I will do whatever he says, for he treats me nicely (as long as I join his ts.) I am weak, but together, all 40 of us are strong. We are the zerg, and I am a zergling.

Well said sir.

Manoekin wrote: »

Anyone saying it will spread the fights out is ***. If a full raid group can't get into a keep because the defensive siege is too strong, are they going to split into two 12 man groups and reduce their chances of success, or are they going to call over more people to help them out? People are just going to rely on zerging more. If you wait for two or three breaches on the keep as well, you're only inviting the opposition to bolster their defense before you can get inside the outer walls, and as far as the inner keeps go you're *** out of luck.

What people have to understand here is that most of the time, when you assault a keep, people assaulting have larger numbers for at least the first 5-10minutes of the engagement unless you are sieging the keep right next in line of the transit. This means that defenders have to obtain a bonus to be able to last long enough until reinforcements arrive.

There are 3things that defenders can use to slow down their opponents :

- Use the guards as a shield
- Use choke points
- Use siege weapons

Prior patch 1.6, siege damage was so ridiculous that no one would use it anymore to counter-siege. Now that it got changed, it helps alot to reduce the pvedooring and actually promote some real fights with real player vs player action.

Now when you mention that a full raid cannot get into a keep because the defensive siege is too strong, that could mean three things.

- You didn't have enough players in a first time to consider engaging that keep
- You didn't have enough sieges to bring the wall down in time before the defenders prepare themselves.
- You didn't try to re-deploy from another direction.

This last point is the one I'm going to pay the most attention because people need to realize it. In most scenarios, when people deploy to siege a wall, they will siege it until it goes down or until they all die from siege damage or by being flanked by infantry stealth groups. It doesn't go further than that and it is really sad.

Let me give you some advices here regarding strategy that you are probably already aware but that you were just too lazy to put into action lately due to the poor siege damage prior patch.

If you get to a keep and before even deploying, you already see defenders on the walls, then maybe you should consider sieging from another angle of the keep.

If you start sieging a keep and the counter-siege gets just too brutal and starts dealing a massive amount of damage to your group, maybe you should packup and re-deploy from another angle of the keep. Accept it, the counter-siegers were more prepared and you got outplayed.

In conclusion, siege weapons are there to bring a major advantage to people using them. If you get caught by it, then you were just not fast enough to engage the enemy and you have two options at your disposal.

1) You gear and spec accordingly to absorb and mitigate the damage
2) You re-engage from another angle

This being said, I don't think it is the time yet to conclude that the damage is too high. I think that we should let it go for a couple weeks still but here is how I think they should change it :

- Overall Siege deployment time should be doubled.
- Overall Siege damage should be reduced by 10%

Huntler wrote: »

Xnemesis wrote: »

If a ballista or treb were to hit you in the face you would die..... so, IMO 24k seems ok.

Hint: try not to stand in the red circles

Here we go with the realism argument... sigh... I need a copy paste response to this garbage.

Glurin wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

I like how those people who thought that were good are now weeded out as simple gear and level dependent "average joes" who followed someone elses build and can't adapt to what was the original design idea at launch... oh sweet melody of their cries. cookie cutter followers with no adaptation skills

I like how every super skilled awesome player has come out of the woodwork to say this change is so awesome :eyeroll:. Yes, weeded out by a simple, idiot proof mechanic that is against everything an MMO is supposed to be. Yup. We are the bad players.

I do not consider myself to be a good player by any means. But when i can one shot whole note worthy enemy raids like Sandman, Havoc, IR, etc you know something is wrong with PvP. Some people say that they love the new siege damage because its finally something we have to counter the zergs. But when you see bigger raids using siege for smaller groups you know its just stupid, and PvP is now SvS.

Trust me. They aren't that noteworthy if they consistently get mowed down by a frickin slow moving rock.

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

xDOVAHKIINx wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

I like how those people who thought that were good are now weeded out as simple gear and level dependent "average joes" who followed someone elses build and can't adapt to what was the original design idea at launch... oh sweet melody of their cries. cookie cutter followers with no adaptation skills

I like how every super skilled awesome player has come out of the woodwork to say this change is so awesome :eyeroll:. Yes, weeded out by a simple, idiot proof mechanic that is against everything an MMO is supposed to be. Yup. We are the bad players.

I do not consider myself to be a good player by any means. But when i can one shot whole note worthy enemy raids like Sandman, Havoc, IR, etc you know something is wrong with PvP. Some people say that they love the new siege damage because its finally something we have to counter the zergs. But when you see bigger raids using siege for smaller groups you know its just stupid, and PvP is now SvS.

Dude its just more interesting, tactical gameplay... duh. Freaking noob monkey spammer. Point, click, dead.... if thats not dynamic, interesting, strategic gameplay that provides fun experiences for everyone in a MMO, then I don't know what is.

LoL i think im safe in saying anyone who is for siege damage, is one who either is not good in PvP/Troll/Does not want to PvP.

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Crappy siege spam began again. "Awesome" patch idea!
Remove that bs and let players fight vs players, not siege.

You can fight players pretty much anywhere in Cyrodiil. If you go to a keep seige, expect there to actually be siege weapons. even at tehe sieges you can easily avoid siege weapons, if you pay attention and dont mindlessly zerg

Phoenix99 wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Pirhana7_ESO wrote: »

Gravord wrote: »

Crappy siege spam began again. "Awesome" patch idea!
Remove that bs and let players fight vs players, not siege.

You can fight players pretty much anywhere in Cyrodiil. If you go to a keep seige, expect there to actually be siege weapons. even at tehe sieges you can easily avoid siege weapons, if you pay attention and dont mindlessly zerg

And anywhere in open field you start fight some 0 skill nab sitting in stealth plant his siege in 1 sec and start spamming. Not what pvp should be about.
Also, all the idiotic arguments about siege shields, dodging, cleansing. Was same bs excuses for ground oil. Why on earth would you need so much player skill, actions, skills, stamina to dodge and awareness to counter complete moron clicking 1 button on his siege? Wheres basic risk vs reward system? He risk nothing spamming his siege while his reward is greater than players doing real pvp can get. Complete broken system rewarding pathetic half asleep 1 clickers sitting on walls or in middle of blobs.

perhaps if you would have less spam on your screen and actually paid attention to what is going on instead of crosshair focusing on target and smashing buttons according to triggers, maybe, just maybe you would notice the big circle or some guy setting up a siege weapon...

I love how the "tunnel vision" players pretend to be pros and then cry because they died when they failed on their situational awareness or adaptation of tactics...

Glurin wrote: »

You know what I just realized? PvPers (here and other places) often boast about how much more skilled they are than PvEers. How dueling is the only real test of a person's skill and ability. How the number of ears or scalps or noses you've got hanging from your belt is somehow indicative of how awesome you are and how only someone as elite as you could ever reach the same level of awesomeness no matter what the circumstances were when you got them.

You know what PvEers do all day, every day? Move out of the red circle of death.

Gravord wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Phoenix99 wrote: »

if this is what you consider skillful play then I think I am done talking here.... so much skill, charge uppercut 80% of the time.... full reliance on the items... and spamming button to what add-ons popped up...

What exactly is skillful about point and click siege? Full reliance on items (isn't that what you are with siege?)? Are you that blind?


I could show a video of a guy spamming 1 skill all day and it would still likely show more skill. You want to know why (note this is a dumbed down example to show how ludicrous the comparison is yet still is a better example of skill)? Because the player spamming that 1 skill would have put a lot of thought, effort, and planning into making that build work. Why again you ask? Because that player needed to go out and find/couple the right gear sets together to optimize the build for the sole purpose of that ability (whatever it is). Not only did that player spend time on a gear set to optimize that build, he/she also put together the other skills on the bar to optimize it. Even if only 1 ability is being spammed, that player is running other abilities to support it passively. Perhaps there are escapes on the bar, perhaps there are abilities with passive bonuses, etc. In addition, that player needs to then succeed in using this ability around other enemies (possibly coordinating with teammates).

As I said before this is the simplest, dumbest example I can give of a player using skills to be "skillful" and its still better than siege spam. Because with siege you remove entirely half of what makes an MMO, an MMO. Gear/build customization.

Wise words, shame non of the siege dmg defenders will understand that.